Building the 7afe to handle boost, Need some assistance Options

[rapid36]

Hey everyone, I own a 94 Celica ST with the 7afe motor in it. I have 4k to throw into this car and want to redo to handle boost and hopefully generate some great hp with it. I have basically every piece of parts i need gathered but still need a little help on some topics. Here are the parts I have so far:

1) 4age forged pistons still keeping it at 9.0:1.
2) forged 7afe H beam rods
3) stock crank
4) Bored out cyclinders
5) t2 turbo kit
6) aem piggy back
7) boost gauge
8) colder spark plugs
9) 440cc injectors
10) 12.1:1 FMU
11) 255 fuel pump
12) wide band o2 sensor and gauge

The thing ive been thinking about is, Do i need a different crank to handle the extra stress that i will be putting on this motor? some people online are saying its forged and the other half are saying its not forged. So does anyone know for sure which one it is??

I have no idea how much power i will be able to generate with this setup but it will be towed to the dyno shop as soon as the build is complete. Of course i wanna make sure everything is able to handle the boost ima be shoving into it. I have no idea on how much boost i will be able to run, hopefully 15psi or more depending on what the dyno people do. I have never turbod a 7afe before only did hyundai tiburons before this, but i did do tons of research on the 7afe, but still have some remaining questions.

Also does anyone know what else will be needed to do to sqeeze the most power out of this motor as i can? without doing a swap of any kind. Also it will be nice to know if anyone has a similar build and see what kind of numbers they are generating.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by rapid36: Feb 5, 2013 - 1:57 PM

[mkernz22]

Everything you will ever need to know

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;hl=turbo+7afe

Dyno part is on page 16

You could get the same amount of power out of a 1mz for half the price ($2000).

This post has been edited by mkernz22: Feb 5, 2013 - 2:24 PM

[rapid36]

Everything you will ever need to know

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;hl=turbo+7afe

Dyno part is on page 16

You could get the same amount of power out of a 1mz for half the price ($2000).

Thanks for the link! im still reading on it, so far it seems to be a formula to how much power you can make, which is cool and needed, so thanks for that! Hopefully someone can answer the other questions i have now. But as i mentioned before im trying my best to stop from doing a swap. Plus i dont see how it will cost only 2k when i would have to buy forged parts for that, not to mention all the labor into swapping over computers and motor mounts. i believe the 1mzfe produces around 170hp??? not sure but i think thats what it had when i looked them up. if thats the case then a turbod 7afe with forged internals should go well beyond that, not to mention the weight difference between the motors.

[Smaay]

actually the 1MZ weighs about the same as a 7A-FE. if you do the swap like it did, using a 3MZ engine and 1MZ computer and some parts. i made 240TQ and 22HP. Its going to take some serious boost to get a 7A to do that.

[rapid36]

actually the 1MZ weighs about the same as a 7A-FE. if you do the swap like it did, using a 3MZ engine and 1MZ computer and some parts. i made 240TQ and 22HP. Its going to take some serious boost to get a 7A to do that.

a v6 weighing the same as a 4???? but Wow thats impressive!! Great job! , but a built 7afe with forged should be well within that range (or at least i would imagine so). of course it will have a proper tune and a fully built motor (despite the fact if i need a forged crank or not). But on the how to articles on here, under the "how to turbo your 7afe" the guy was running on stock internals and was running 14psi and he said he doubled his power, which should be 220hp, not sure how true that is. and so a forged setup should hold up to 300hp easy, granite having a great setup and all the right parts is a must. im hoping to at least push 250 with my build.

[mkernz22]

Click the link to the thread I posted, you might end up spending more than 4k to build that 7a to make any decent amount of power

[Smaay]

the 7A is cast Iron. the MZ is Aluminum. I can easily pick up the block of the V6, i almost drop my nuts picking up the 7A...Now imagine how heavy the 2JZ is.

[rapid36]

oh ok, well i already bought most of the parts that i need (they are listed above) and i bought all the tools to put it together and what not, including the engine stand! and im only at 4.5k so far! just trying to see what else im missing before i pull out my motor and start redoing it. better to have everything mapped out before jumping into it. Thank you for the link! im still going through it

Not to mention that the 4.5k is including the clutch i bought for my tranny which is rated to withstand 400lbs of torque.

Note: You can't just have a good motor you have to have everything else built up as well! or else its pointless having a great built up motor! Ill have to start a progress build on here as soon as i get all my parts! I think you all will enjoy it!

This post has been edited by rapid36: Feb 6, 2013 - 11:20 AM

[Smaay]

tell me more about this transmission you have, what was done to it?

[rapid36]

tell me more about this transmission you have, what was done to it?

Just the stock tranny, that comes in the ST but put new seals in and put in a clutch kit that is rated to handle 400 torque, here are the specs that were listed with it:

Part Number: TC2-XTR6

Application: 1ZZFE 2ZZGE 4AFE 7AFE

Includes:

- Includes pressure plate
- Disc Included
- ACT Stickers & Decals
- Installation instructions

Specs:

- Torque Capacity (FT/LBS): 400
- Clamp Load Increase (%): 65%
- Pressure Plate: T022X
- Disc: 6212003
- Release Bearing: RB840
- Pilot Bearing: N/A
- Align tool: ATK73

Pressure Plate: XT=Xtreme

- Gives 50-120% clamp load increase
- Has moderate to stiff pedal feel
- Recommended disc: Street or Race

Xtreme Spring Centered Race Disc: G6=6 PUCK (pad)

- Increased torque capacity and spline life
- Recommended for road racing and high power street racing
- Very good durability and spline life
- Quiet operation and reduced driveline shock
- Has Harsh engagement and chatter

[mkernz22]

Just because the clutch can handle up to 400hp doesn't mean that the transmission will. If the s54 for the 5s doesn't hold over 350hp, I don't think the 7a transmission will hold over 300hp, if that.

[rapid36]

Just because the clutch can handle up to 400hp doesn't mean that the transmission will. If the s54 for the 5s doesn't hold over 350hp, I don't think the 7a transmission will hold over 300hp, if that.

i totally understand lol. but im only looking to get 250-300 out of this build, so it looks like i will be ok. well we can only hope.

[mkernz22]

I didn't know what your power goals were, but that should be easily doable!

[rapid36]

I didn't know what your power goals were, but that should be easily doable!

Thanks! glad to hear something positive! Hopefully i can push the 7a to get to that 300. I saw a guy with a corolla that has a 7afe in it, and he built the motor with forged parts and is running 21psi and getting 300hp at the wheels. If anyone wants the video link let me know!!! if so then ill post it on here for everyone to see. Dont message me though cause i may not answer, i dont really check it lol . But The guy in the video also wrote up a how to build your 7afe for handling boost. And thats exactly what im following but i still have the question if i need a forged crank or anything else to withstand the 300hp im trying to get out of this thing. Anyways im hoping this thread will be helpful for not only me but to others who are looking to do the same thing!

[Syaoran]

Transmissions don't handle HP, and cars don't produce HP.

With that said, I know of an MR-2 1ZZ turbo with around 300-320 whee torque with aftermarket LSD doing hard launches and using Nitto drag radials. He does 11.8s 1/4 mile. C-series transmissions are not weak by any means (except C60 which is the ****ty 6-gear that comes with the Corolla XRS or Celica GT-S; those break on stock 2ZZ power)

He has never had to do anything to the transmission and it's been well over 2 years turbo, 260-280-320 wtq across its life.

@OP: You should've fit an LSD if you had the transmission out. However since it's already done, the most important component in making power is the tuning solution. If you don't have proper tuning you can break even the best forged engine.

This post has been edited by Syaoran: Feb 7, 2013 - 4:12 PM

[Smaay]

With that said, I know of an MR-2 1ZZ turbo with around 300-320 whee torque with aftermarket LSD doing hard launches and using Nitto drag radials. He does 11.8s 1/4 mile. C-series transmissions are not weak by any means (except C60 which is the ****ty 6-gear that comes with the Corolla XRS or Celica GT-S; those break on stock 2ZZ power)

no they dont. they break from abuse. im still using the original 6 speed from my car thats 12 years old. I didnt even suffer from the 3rd and 4th gear grind that the early ones did.

[rapid36]

Transmissions don't handle HP, and cars don't produce HP.

With that said, I know of an MR-2 1ZZ turbo with around 300-320 whee torque with aftermarket LSD doing hard launches and using Nitto drag radials. He does 11.8s 1/4 mile. C-series transmissions are not weak by any means (except C60 which is the ****ty 6-gear that comes with the Corolla XRS or Celica GT-S; those break on stock 2ZZ power)

He has never had to do anything to the transmission and it's been well over 2 years turbo, 260-280-320 wtq across its life.

@OP: You should've fit an LSD if you had the transmission out. However since it's already done, the most important component in making power is the tuning solution. If you don't have proper tuning you can break even the best forged engine.

Your right they handle torque but i am lost on what your trying to say about cars not producing HP, could you clarify this for me????

Also that's awesome to hear! Seems like I should do alright then. But yes your absolutely correct! A good tune is a must! I will be taking my car to a dyno shop to get it tuned as soon as I get this build complete.

And now I never looked into a limited slip differential for these cars, that idea never even hit me, Could it be done to these front wheel drive celicas? specifically the ST??

[Syaoran]

HP is a measure of torque multiplied by the RPM where the torque measured is produced and then is divided by a constant of 5252. The formula for Horsepower looks like this:

(Torque * RPM)/5252

Horsepower is not what an engine produces, because an engine converts energy produced in the combustion into a mechanical force, and that mechanical force is applied in a rotation through the crankshaft, which in turn rotates other things like the transmission; this is also known as torque.

[rapid36]

HP is a measure of torque multiplied by the RPM where the torque measured is produced and then is divided by a constant of 5252. The formula for Horsepower looks like this:

(Torque * RPM)/5252

Horsepower is not what an engine produces, because an engine converts energy produced in the combustion into a mechanical force, and that mechanical force is applied in a rotation through the crankshaft, which in turn rotates other things like the transmission; this is also known as torque.

Very interesting, never knew that.

[Smaay]

HP is a measure of torque multiplied by the RPM where the torque measured is produced and then is divided by a constant of 5252. The formula for Horsepower looks like this:

(Torque * RPM)/5252

Horsepower is not what an engine produces, because an engine converts energy produced in the combustion into a mechanical force, and that mechanical force is applied in a rotation through the crankshaft, which in turn rotates other things like the transmission; this is also known as torque.

very well explained. HP is a imaginary number based on torque and acceleration.

[rapid36]

So does anyone know if i will need a forged crank for a 300hp build? or is the stock cranks in the 7a's already forged?

And do I need anything else besides the stuff listed above?

Any info will help.

This post has been edited by rapid36: Feb 8, 2013 - 11:05 AM

[Smaay]

stock crank is fine. i dont think the 4A pistons and 7A rods are compatible

[rapid36]

stock crank is fine. i dont think the 4A pistons and 7A rods are compatible

ok thanks! and it should be, i read up a lot on the internet and a ton of people are saying that they are using the 4a pistons with 7a rods, but it wont matter now cause i found 7a forged pistons for a big price but it might be worth it, it comes with some extra goodies as well.

[Smaay]

i still no point in sinking all that money into a 7A

[rapid36]

i still no point in sinking all that money into a 7A

Im very open to opinions! please let me know what you think.

But the reasoning for me putting this much money into a 7a is because instead of going out and spending 5k on a neon srt or something similar, I could have a celica that is just as fast if not faster than a srt. And not to mention the motor and tranny in that car will be rebuilt and will be more reliable than going out and buying another car with quite a bit of miles on it.

[mgnt232]

you can buy a 3s clip for like 3-4k and push quite a bit more than the 7a will even after all the rebuilds.
most 3sgte for sale have like 30k miles (or so they say)

[Smaay]

i still no point in sinking all that money into a 7A

Im very open to opinions! please let me know what you think.

But the reasoning for me putting this much money into a 7a is because instead of going out and spending 5k on a neon srt or something similar, I could have a celica that is just as fast if not faster than a srt. And not to mention the motor and tranny in that car will be rebuilt and will be more reliable than going out and buying another car with quite a bit of miles on it.

there is no logic to this. you are going to sink 5K into an engine that will never perform. Yeah you are building it up so it will be reliable, but you are not going to see the numbers you want.

like i mentioned earlier you can spend 2000 for a V6 swap, or 3500 for a 3S-GTE. and have a reliable engine

[celica74]

If your looking to get 300hp out of a 7a your looking at NEEDING forged rods, forged pistons, id go ahead and do a complete rebuild, a clutch that can handle 300 and hope your axles and trans still have life left in them, some porting work, probly going to have to do some oversized valves, cam grind, atleast a gt25 turbo, 550cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, and something to tune. If you add all this up, your looking around 6k. 3s can be in your driveway and have a new tb, wp, and bearings and in your car for this cost. Just saying not impossible, just saying 300hp on a 7a block and head hasnt really been done before. 400hp has been done on a 7a block and trans but with the help of a 4a 20v head, a expensive turbo and a hell of a tune.

[rapid36]

If your looking to get 300hp out of a 7a your looking at NEEDING forged rods, forged pistons, id go ahead and do a complete rebuild, a clutch that can handle 300 and hope your axles and trans still have life left in them, some porting work, probly going to have to do some oversized valves, cam grind, atleast a gt25 turbo, 550cc injectors, 255 fuel pump, and something to tune. If you add all this up, your looking around 6k. 3s can be in your driveway and have a new tb, wp, and bearings and in your car for this cost. Just saying not impossible, just saying 300hp on a 7a block and head hasnt really been done before. 400hp has been done on a 7a block and trans but with the help of a 4a 20v head, a expensive turbo and a hell of a tune.

guys lol please read the first post, then you would already know whats going on, yes i do realize i need a lot of stuff but if you read the first post you will understand what im going for. Dont see why everyone is saying its impossible or near impossible to get 300hp out of a 7a, a fully built motor and tranny and a great tune should easily handle 250hp-300hp.

And for the people saying to do the swap, Im very skeptical about it due to the fact that the labor is going to be very massive, not to mention having a clip sent over seas i would imagine be very expensive. Plus i would have to rebuild the motor that came in the clip. which again will add up well over my budget.

[mgnt232]

I think everyone gets it what your going for. And if its what you really want, go for it.
Just as you mentioned the labor (especially if you dont do it all your self) is going to take forever (but a 3s would be faster to swap) and the 7a will be very expensive, tedious, special ordered, ect.
A base 3s can push what your looking for. As far as you said you need to rebuild it? Just replace normal wear and tear items (timing belt, oil pump, ect.) And you wouldnt import it your self, there are plenty of third party companies that bring them in all the time.
After the mounts/shift linkage/trans/clutch/motor/harness conv./maintenance parts/ect I personally have spent like 5k (maybe a little more) But will be well over 300whp with only room for improvement. As with your plan I imagine would be the top of the line items already in, and ridiculously expensive to go bigger and better.
But again if your set on boost for the 7a, go for it. Prove us all wrong and keep us up to date

[rapid36]

I think everyone gets it what your going for. And if its what you really want, go for it.
Just as you mentioned the labor (especially if you dont do it all your self) is going to take forever (but a 3s would be faster to swap) and the 7a will be very expensive, tedious, special ordered, ect.
A base 3s can push what your looking for. As far as you said you need to rebuild it? Just replace normal wear and tear items (timing belt, oil pump, ect.) And you wouldnt import it your self, there are plenty of third party companies that bring them in all the time.
After the mounts/shift linkage/trans/clutch/motor/harness conv./maintenance parts/ect I personally have spent like 5k (maybe a little more) But will be well over 300whp with only room for improvement. As with your plan I imagine would be the top of the line items already in, and ridiculously expensive to go bigger and better.
But again if your set on boost for the 7a, go for it. Prove us all wrong and keep us up to date

Very well said with great explanation, those are comments i like to hear , very informative as well! You are 100% correct, the 3s swap is a much more better build than building the 7a due to the fact of price and power potential. i hate to switch ideas because then its just one big old loop and nothing ever gets done, but maybe building the 5sfe might be a better build for me to do.

[mgnt232]

>click here<
That link is to pressure2 (a moderator here) who did a 5sfte. Very in detail. In his 3sgte swap thread he says the differences in the swaps. I dont have time to find both but im sure you can.
Ive talked to him about it before and he loved both, the 5s being more difficult.
Its just up to you

[rapid36]

>click here<
That link is to pressure2 (a moderator here) who did a 5sfte. Very in detail. In his 3sgte swap thread he says the differences in the swaps. I dont have time to find both but im sure you can.
Ive talked to him about it before and he loved both, the 5s being more difficult.
Its just up to you

Dang Perfect!!!!! Thank you, that is exactly what i need to aid me in my decision! Thank god supra injectors are compatible with both 7a and 5s! I already have the 440cc Supra injectors and AEM piggy back at my house. Luckily those were purchased first and not the forged pistons and rods!!

I will keep everyone updated on my decision and the reasons why im going with a certain build, But for now im going to research like no other and provide everyone with the most accurate information i can!