Red Top Beams, Looking to buy, need advice. Options

[Poonicus]

I've been looking around online for a redtop beams and wanted to get you guy's opinion on what I've found.

$1499.99
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-3SGE-Be...6aa&vxp=mtr

$1384
http://www.jdmenginescorp.com/engine_detai...-trans-wire-ecu

$1995
http://www.jdmenginezone.com/engine-detail...top--98_99.html

[Smaay]

for those prices, have you considered a V6?

[richee3]

Out of the three, I recommend the last since it has the stock intake. The B pipe would be helpful as well but it's not necessary. An exhaust shop can fab one up for you. The first one is missing the rubber elbow on the throttle body which again, isn't essential, but isn't easy to track down.

[Poonicus]

for those prices, have you considered a V6?

Yes and no, sounds like a lot more work then I can tackle by myself..

Out of the three, I recommend the last since it has the stock intake. The B pipe would be helpful as well but it's not necessary. An exhaust shop can fab one up for you. The first one is missing the rubber elbow on the throttle body which again, isn't essential, but isn't easy to track down.

Yeah I noticed the elbow and throttle body's being missing too, but didn't know how hard those parts are to find. But I'm getting my next motor lined up because I am damn sick of my 5sfe, and it'll die sometime haha.

[Box]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-98-Toyota-Celi...b9b&vxp=mtr

Everything for much less.... They're even in Texas, so you could probably negotiate an even cheaper price if you picked it up yourself.

This post has been edited by Box: Nov 29, 2013 - 6:36 PM

[Box]

Man, the more I think about it what I posted is very tempting... You're lucky I don't have a GT, otherwise I'd have to buy it.

[njccmd2002]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-98-Toyota-Celi...b9b&vxp=mtr

Everything for much less.... They're even in Texas, so you could probably negotiate an even cheaper price if you picked it up yourself.

Victim sensor is broke. Add 200 used and 3 weeks to get

[Box]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-98-Toyota-Celi...b9b&vxp=mtr

Everything for much less.... They're even in Texas, so you could probably negotiate an even cheaper price if you picked it up yourself.

Victim sensor is broke. Add 200 used and 3 weeks to get

If only there was an engine swap where parts were cheap and readily available!

Victim sensor?? Auto "corrected" VVT-i?

This post has been edited by Box: Nov 30, 2013 - 1:56 AM

[H8TRAIN]

Victim sensor is broke. Add 200 used and 3 weeks to get

How did you know that? I just called on that motor today.

[njccmd2002]

Victim sensor is broke. Add 200 used and 3 weeks to get

How did you know that? I just called on that motor today.

I know how one looks like, and its hard, but you can see it on one of the pics..

[H8TRAIN]

I know how one looks like, and its hard, but you can see it on one of the pics..

I started scouring the pics when you posted that yesterday. After searching around for what it may look like, I leared that it should be somewhere around the cam gears. Is it the silver thing poking out the hood of the red cover by the intake cam gear? Where's waldo? And are we talking about the vvti solenoid a sensor? Thanks for pointing that out in the first place btw. Enlightening.

[njccmd2002]

here is a pic of healthy VVTI sensor.



engine

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Celica-ST20...f93&vxp=mtr

[richee3]

I started scouring the pics when you posted that yesterday. After searching around for what it may look like, I leared that it should be somewhere around the cam gears. Is it the silver thing poking out the hood of the red cover by the intake cam gear? Where's waldo? And are we talking about the vvti solenoid a sensor? Thanks for pointing that out in the first place btw. Enlightening.

Yeah, it's the solenoid. The proper name is an oil control valve, or OCV. Somebody, I think Turnip or Puretone, found a suitable replacement out of a USDM car but I can't remember who or which motor the replacement OCV came from.

[Box]

Out of the 2ZZ-GE perhaps?

[richee3]

It wasn't the 2ZZ or the 1ZZ, it was some oddball engine like the 1.3 liter Echo engine or something. The BEAMS and 1ZZ are very closely related, so much so that a 1ZZ ECU will run a BEAMS although not well. I'd have thought that because of that a 1ZZ OCV would work, and it may still work, but the one that was found and confirmed was from some other engine. I should probably look that up one of these days.

[H8TRAIN]

Right on, guys. Thanks for the info!

[Smaay]

the OCV will only work if the hole it mounts in is the same and the holes for the oil passages are the same.

I find it amazing that a 1ZZ ECU will run a BEAMS, does it have a cam position sensor? how many teeth on the crank position sensor?

[richee3]

I have no idea how many teeth are on the crank position sensor, but it does have a cam position sensor. If I recall correctly the BEAMS has either one more or one less tooth on the cam gears than the 1ZZ. I shouldn't say its a popular or common mid but a few guys have repinned their harnesses and made a 1ZZ Apex'i PowerFC work for their BEAMS. Kind of a long read, but some interesting stuff here.

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/25784-Th...or-redtop-story!

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/23674-1z...-runs-the-Beams

[Poonicus]

Good thread glad I posted it haha and one more question in terms of driveablity and comfort, ect. would it be better to do 3gste or red top beams? I'm looking into swaping a motor into my car that gives it more power than the 5sfe but higher than like 16mpg.

[Box]

The 5S isn't the most fuel efficient motor around, but you should be getting upper 20's though with mostly highway driving. Most people report the same if not better fuel mileage with the BEAMS. The MR2 Turbo got 27 on the highway, so should get that or better with the 3rd gen 3S-GTE.

[Poonicus]

The 5S isn't the most fuel efficient motor around, but you should be getting upper 20's though with mostly highway driving. Most people report the same if not better fuel mileage with the BEAMS. The MR2 Turbo got 27 on the highway, so should get that or better with the 3rd gen 3S-GTE.

Well I know with bigger injectors and all that my old Integra turbo build got about 17-19 in town that's why I was wondering about the 3gste's economy being turbo charged and all.

[Box]

20 city with the MR2 Turbo. Though if that is a concern, probably shouldn't be looking into a $3,000+ swap.

[Smaay]

The 5S isn't the most fuel efficient motor around, but you should be getting upper 20's though with mostly highway driving. Most people report the same if not better fuel mileage with the BEAMS. The MR2 Turbo got 27 on the highway, so should get that or better with the 3rd gen 3S-GTE.

Well I know with bigger injectors and all that my old Integra turbo build got about 17-19 in town that's why I was wondering about the 3gste's economy being turbo charged and all.

key word "turbo integra" poor mileage is either tuning and or driver. I know i get horrible mileage (23 MPG) in my celica because i cant keep my foot out of it! I love the V6 power

[H8TRAIN]

Good thread glad I posted it haha and one more question in terms of driveablity and comfort, ect. would it be better to do 3gste or red top beams? I'm looking into swaping a motor into my car that gives it more power than the 5sfe but higher than like 16mpg.

How much horsepower do you want? I've never driven a beams and it's been awhile since being in a 3sgte car, but this is coming from general experience.

Going from a pedestrian four pot like a 5sfe to a hi-performance type like the beams is a significant and worthwhile hike in power. The difference is even greater in real world performance. But adding a complete turbo system to that high-performance engine design takes it into another league of power and performance. A gte is going to be stock 240hp. And you're going to ask it to ingest a few more psi than factory(oh yeah you are) so it's realistically a 260-300hp motor. That's to say nothing of the broad and abundant torque and it's subtle and unsubtle advantages.

A 200hp beams is a good choice. A 280hp gte is a good one too. But they're way different. Do you have a power or performance goal?

[Smaay]

Good thread glad I posted it haha and one more question in terms of driveablity and comfort, ect. would it be better to do 3gste or red top beams? I'm looking into swaping a motor into my car that gives it more power than the 5sfe but higher than like 16mpg.

How much horsepower do you want? I've never driven a beams and it's been awhile since being in a 3sgte car, but this is coming from general experience.

Going from a pedestrian four pot like a 5sfe to a hi-performance type like the beams is a significant and worthwhile hike in power. The difference is even greater in real world performance. But adding a complete turbo system to that high-performance engine design takes it into another league of power and performance. A gte is going to be stock 240hp. And you're going to ask it to ingest a few more psi than factory(oh yeah you are) so it's realistically a 260-300hp motor. That's to say nothing of the broad and abundant torque and it's subtle and unsubtle advantages.

A 200hp beams is a good choice. A 280hp gte is a good one too. But they're way different. Do you have a power or performance goal?

there is nothing high performance about a BEAMS

and a BEAMS might make 200 HP to the crank but you will be lucky to get 170 to the wheels

[H8TRAIN]

there is nothing high performance about a BEAMS

How do you feel about bumping the beams vs v6 thread so we can argue about this? Fun? Yeah?

[Smaay]

there is nothing high performance about a BEAMS

How do you feel about bumping the beams vs v6 thread so we can argue about this? Fun? Yeah?

no leave that thread dead where it belongs. The BEAMS has High Performance qualities like VVT but its far from a high performance title.

[lagos]

there is nothing high performance about a BEAMS

How do you feel about bumping the beams vs v6 thread so we can argue about this? Fun? Yeah?

no leave that thread dead where it belongs. The BEAMS has High Performance qualities like VVT but its far from a high performance title.

I recently drove a beams powered car. I was actually surprised at how well it pulled for NA. It had good initial bite and enough power to keep you in your seat. It was genuinely a fun car to drive.

This was my impression after driving a turbo celica for the past 10 years or so, so thats saying a lot. Was it faster than my car? No. Not by a long shot. But it was a lot of fun to drive in its own way.

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 7, 2013 - 6:12 PM

[H8TRAIN]

no leave that thread dead where it belongs. The BEAMS has High Performance qualities like VVT but its far from a high performance title.

The 3sge is clearly a hi-performance version of the 3sfe/5sfe. That's it's reason for existence; To be the hi performance 2000 class flagship and race winner. It not only makes more power at higher engine speeds than the regular fe versions, but can sustain maximum output relentlessly while maintaining consistent cooling and oiling. From an engineering perspective, it is hi-performance.

The caveat here is that this is only my concept of what hi-performance means. The fact that it appears to overlap with the ideas of toyota and it's various motorsports teams is of little consequence if you personally have a different idea of what makes a hi performance engine.

[njccmd2002]

Lolz. 5 internet points

[BonzaiCelica]

h8 train stop while your ahead.

[H8TRAIN]

h8 train stop while your ahead.

You guys are all so civilized. I come from the nerd scorched underbutt of the internet.

Seriously, it's just some fun ball busting (like internet arguments should be!!). In fact, that actually reminded me to go check out Smaay's setup. I must say: Smaay; The work is brilliant and the car is beautiful!

[njccmd2002]

h8 train stop while your ahead.

[njccmd2002]

we can start talking about why the sky is blue, and try to change its color for years. Toyota has not made any more high performance engines since the 90's that is if you want to call some of them high performance. All toyota does is econoboxes now.

This a as valid as an argument as comparing oranges to apples.

[Smaay]

we can start talking about why the sky is blue, and try to change its color for years. Toyota has not made any more high performance engines since the 90's that is if you want to call some of them high performance. All toyota does is econoboxes now.

This a as valid as an argument as comparing oranges to apples.

ill disagree, the 2ZZ is a high performance engine. and what about the engine that comes in the LFA?

i know the 2ZZ isnt a HP monster, but nothing else in the toyota lineup can handle the RPMs that it does out the box.

[njccmd2002]

Lfa is Lexus not an engine I see in any toyota. The 2zz is not a high performance engine. Sure has 180 hp the beams has more. The beams handles more rpm than any other engine made in 1997 and it was the first Vvti of its class, and it was 200 hp to the crank, thus better than the 2zz 10 years before the 2zz. So I don't get your logic why you consider the 2zz better than a beams.


We can sit here all day arguing why the sky is blue. Point in case you dislike the beams and any thread about beams you post negative comments. We have all backed out of belittling the v6 1mz. The beams is a good engine. Not the best by any chance.

So back to the op. Remember once you pick a beams that is it. No more modes, not many available. If you are power hungry, then it's not your engine.

[Smaay]

I never said i dislike the BEAMS, I said its not worth the cost of the swap. and I never said the 2ZZ is better, i just claimed it to be high performance.

[JasonTX]

Just FYI poonicus. i ordered a motor for my mr2 many years ago from dallas jdm motor and when i went to grab it they had several 3sgte's and i actually was able to mix and match a couple of parts for a few bucks extra. you may want to call and see if they have more 3sge's on the shelf and note the one they pictured has a damaged sensor, and ask for either another motor or to pull the sensor off another motor

This post has been edited by JasonTX: Dec 9, 2013 - 10:00 AM