5SGTE Looking to build it right the first time, Need info, planning Options

[mgnt232]

Posted up on mr2oc because I see a lot more people there pushing into the higher hp ranges im looking for. Looking to hit around 600-700whp dyno queeen (incase anyone is a member on both sites just looking for as much info as I can get). They are giving me a ton of info over there too. I've read through Manny's build for jim a few times as well as others

Looking for input on suggestions to get up to this power goal, my budget I would like to keep around 10k (not including the new GT or 3rd gen clip). It is flexible but pouring more than that into my $3k shell is painful to think about lol.
I realize this post is long to get to the point, what would your swap consist of to achieve my power goal?

So I’ll be deployed for 7-8 months making a whole lot of money and when I get back my plan is to find a clean GT and build up a 5SGTE. The car will be a ‘sleeper ‘ for a while as all the money I’m looking to spend will be in the performance department. Eventually the 3s I have now will go into Tina’s car and stay the SSIII look since its clean, and the new GT will get the supra exterior done with more time than a week like I had with my orange celi now.

Most likely buy another 3rd gen 3SGTE clip. Mainly for the extra parts, uncut harness, and E153. May keep the extra 3S for replacement parts as they go bad on my other one, or sell it not 100% on anything yet.

ATS 2.3L
ATS Head
ATS Racing has a lot of the parts I would need. Looking at the 2.3L 5S (98+ stroker) block seems to be the strongest 5S block I can find. They have 3S heads as well that are ‘700whp’ tested and mr2 owners seem to swear by ATS so as long as I don’t hear anything bad about them I may as well get one that all the work has already been done on and proven to handle 700.
They have cams, gears, turbo setup, injectors ect. But looking into all my options there. Again any input here from experience or knowledge will be greatly appreciated.
Ive read mixed reviews on if the 255 Walbro is enough for this hp goal. Also injectors, what should I be running to hit my power goal (600-700).
Almost forgot. I know I have E53 here in NC but not sure if I have it back in NY. I would like to run it on pump gas (93 or 100) I realize the e53 makes a huge difference in power, but not sure exactly.


As far as the turbo setup, looking at the 6262. It can put out the hp goal im looking for without being the largest turbo ever made. Keep in mind I still want to drive the car, its not a purely track car, but not my DD either.

I know some people here like Art swear by the Megasquirt. I know very little about EMS so any info here would be great. I have a performance shop here in NC that has no problem with tuning, and awesome reviews (they’ve done a few mr2 3S’s, so somewhat familiar) .

There is a ton of info out there I know that, Im reading as much as I can, but not much time to do it out here in the desert lol
Thanks for any info I know this post is extremely long but im pretty committed to doing this, and in my planning stage. I would like to for once do it right the first time I know there will be hiccups (a lot) along the way but planning ive learned it the most crucial part I tend to skip over
Also my PM box only has like 3% free so reply here.

This post has been edited by mgnt232: Mar 11, 2014 - 4:46 PM

[mgnt232]

bump...? I have gotten most of the info I need from mr2oc, but still... nothing here? lol

[Smaay]

ATS are good guys, The only grip i would have is $$$$$$$. if you are mechanically sound, get the parts and assemble the engine yourself.

[mgnt232]

Ok going to start compiling a list of parts I will be getting (more in depth later)
2.3L '98+ 5S block
Wiseco 88mm pistons
Eagle Rods
5s Crank
6266 Turbo (Journal bearing unless I read a lot more significant benefits to the BB)
RacerX Top mount Exhaust manifold (may have to extend somethings to make it fit)
ATS Head (3rd Gen)
Gen 3 (S1 or S2) Cams
ID 2000 Injectors / ATS top feed rail
3rd Gen clip (ST205, all the little parts are a pain to find, plus the E153 Trans)
RacerX Side feed manifold
Walbro 485

I can assemble the engine with some help, ive only ever done 2 NA engines and they worked fine, but pushing sooo much more power I assume a little mistake should not be made. The $$$ isn't too big of a deal, I wont be doing anything for about 8 months though. And then I would like to keep my spending between 10-15k (I feel like I could do a great build for that)

Cams, Are there draw backs to going to the 274 over the 268, while still only looking for power goals of 600-700? Again I will look more into the difference, but getting the answer from someone who already knows will clear up a lot.

A clutch setup, I have a stage 2 right now from southbend I want to say (bought it over a year ago) And no problems with it, but I know it was rated around 350whp (again I just called and they set me up with what I needed for my power goals). I know I will most likely need a stage 4, suggestions?


Will most likely be running e85 after looking at the power/octane difference and price per gal.
Still don't have a clue what EMS to go with, have a lot more research in that department, any suggestions to work with flex fuel? Also is there anything else to change, besides the sensor and an ecu capable of understanding flexfuel? Such as different fuel lines/fittings or something?

This post has been edited by mgnt232: Mar 14, 2014 - 3:54 PM

[Syaoran]

Ball bearing will boost faster, all else equal.
Cams should be chosen with the company's rating and the streetability you have in mind. 268 will be more streetable than 274, but will make less power, all else equal.

You will also lose torque, which, combined with a huge journal bearing turbo and low compression pistons will equal a sluggish car.

I understand that to run e85 the car has to be prepared for it and that means injectors, fuel lines, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc that is compatible with ethanol.

No offense but, this list sounds like it was just a bunch of expensive off the shelf parts put together with no goal except "600-700" hp in mind, which, to me, is ridiculous on a fwd car that is not dedicated for the track.

[delusionz]

lol good old wishlists. haha if i had a fwd one-wheeler-peeler car id wish for a better car, not for a better motor in that car

[mgnt232]

Its supposed to be ridiculous lol that's the idea. I'm buying from ATS because its already tested and works, doing some guess work and trial and error is a pain, that was all my current 3SGTE swap was. Took way more time than it should have and cost way more. Running great now but, again why not do it right the first time, not half assed and go back again to redo it lol

From what im reading on mr2oc, you need a fuel pump that will run with e85 (walbro 485), injectors (ID2000), ECU capable of understanding e85 (flex fuel), and a fuel filter. No mention of new lines there, Ill ask more questions and get a more definite answer. You can run 93 or e85 from what im being told as long as your ECU "understands" and has the correct sensors to monitor the e85 and 93 content/octane level.
ECM Master and Haltech make an EMS that are made to work with e85

I understand the BB will spool faster, but is it a noticeable amount just street driving, or is it more so on the dyno/track where the slight difference is noticed? Ive been reading up to 15% faster spool, and some saying not much difference.

268 run out of steam right about my power goal, that's why I was asking for that. I could have a better low end with the shorter duration, or a better high end with the longer duration. Since its a street car, the best bet would most likely be best with the 268 and have a better low end.
With the 2.3L there is a lot of displacement and spool should be "fast" already, im still on the fence I guess for the 268 or 274. Leaning on the 268

This post has been edited by mgnt232: Mar 14, 2014 - 5:23 PM

[cardshark525]

Your priority with 600-700whp should be traction or rather lack-thereof.

If you put the pedal to the floor in just about any gear but fifth with that much power in a fwd car you will be spinning the tires.

Im sure others will tell you the same but where I'm at... 2nd is useless with more than 3/4 throttle, and third will even slip a bit with 100% throttle. I expect at the power levels you're looking at you'll have the same issues but with third and fourth gear, and at that point you're over 100mph.

Parts look fine and you've done the research to know what you need but getting that power to the ground will be a problem for something meant to be driven on the streets.

As far as ecu, Haltec is boss.

This post has been edited by cardshark525: Mar 14, 2014 - 5:29 PM

[mgnt232]

Yeah ive looked a bit into that, because my 3s swap spins in 3rd too.
For that power the mr2 inners will break too, and they have better axle cages pretty cheap to make sure that doesn't happen.
Axle Cages Here

This goal is far away still. I will get a set of coilovers, and all new suspension parts, and poly bushings. but aside from that what else can I really do as far as the tires going wild lol

Ive only heard good things about Haltec that's why its a top choice

[cardshark525]

Either crazy wide tires or go awd since you're making a $10k build...

You'd be closer to 500whp but 500awhp will kick the crap out of 700fwhp till about 120mph...

[Ted95]

Better off converting to AWD with the 5sgte so you can utilize the power it will produce. I've looked into building a 500whp 5sgte with gen4 side feed manifold but the car will never hold traction, something to think about.

[mgnt232]

Well ****, I didn't really want to have to go into the AWD conversion... But looks like I will have to.
I know there is info on it here, but I haven't read ANY into it.... guess I have a lot of reading to do.

I assume I would be easiest to buy a rear clip from a 205? If anyone has done it feel free to chime in. Im going to see if Many found out more about the swap done at the meet. I know It requires quite a bit of custom work, and I don't even have a welder lol sooo

Its a good point though on the traction, how much do you think im looking at for someone to take all the parts and make the celica AWD (not including the clip price)

[cardshark525]

As far as the cost I think Manny and Dustin covered that in a recent podcast. I think they said the cost of going from a 3sgte fwd swap to awd is around $2k-$3k (that's for all parts and labor I THINK). Hopefully one of them jumps in here to give you the details but like I said it was covered in one of their podcasts however I'm not sure which one. Labor wise iirc they said around 10-15 hours of labor for the conversion but again, I'm going off memory not hard fact.

This post has been edited by cardshark525: Mar 15, 2014 - 2:31 PM

[mgnt232]

Well you have to find someone to do the work, and is familiar with the swap too. I cant download the podcasts here, I get back home beginning of April and I'll get them all
That's an insanely cheaper price than I imagined lol. Ill send Manny a message today and see.


Side not is anyone on the site running with e85? Ive been researching it for days now, and for a larger power goal it really is the only smart choice.

[mikaelhoglund]

Hello!
I use e85 here in sweden and it works great. I use walbros new 450 pump and have dynoed 600engine hp and 811nm torque. I use a borg warner twin entry turbo from the s200 series. if you are lookin for 600+ hp please look at the borg warner s300 range from 62mm and up.
I used an borg warner s254 and dynoed those numbers. this year i have a s256 custom built with extended tip on the turbinewheel as well.
Going to dyno later this spring.
I use a old pre 98 5s block and all the other parts are 3s-ge gen3 from a st202.
The good thing on the st202 3s-ge heads here in europe is that they are made for top mounted injectors.
I use 1600cc denso style injectors from fivo o motorsport and they works great, my car idle on 900rpm steady. and i use the gsc gen 3 stage 1 cams.

ohh i forgot i have 2,2bar@4300rpm with this turbo and its not BB,