Headgasket Sealer, I'm planning to replace the whole motor in the fall Options

[VavAlephVav]

I want to see if anybody has used pour-in head gasket sealer with any success.
I have decided it would be best to replace the whole motor than to do a head job on this one, and so I want to use some head gasket in a bottle to get me through the summer till I can do the motor in the fall.

I have a 1994 GT with a 5sfe, and the guy I bought it from put a used motor in it before he sold it to me. I understand now that the motor is most likely from a 97+ Camry and is the slightly different 5fse, they had to modify the bell housing to make it fit.



and I can see the paint-pen marks on the front of the head, which to me means he bought it from a pick-n-pull kind of salvage yard. It also leaks slightly from the intake side of the head somewhere, though not bad enough to leave spots in the driveway, and also leaks from the oil cooler I think. It looses about a quart every 2000 miles.

And when I talked to the shop I trust about doing the head they said it was 8 hours for the head and only about 10 to replace the whole motor.
So to me it makes more sense to find a good condition used 5sfe and take it apart and do a good Cometic gasket and a full valve grind on it and the timing belt kit all before we even have it put in the car. Then I can also have a proper 5sfe that fits my transmission. (wtb 5speed bell housing)

but funds for this project won't happen until the fall so in the meantimes I am gonna try some pour-in stuff. Right now the motor is pushing exhaust gas into the coolant. at first I would need to add maybe a quart of coolant a week, but is getting worse although I have not seen it smoke and the plugs are not wet or fouled. but there are traces of oil on the radiator cap and the overflow tube. When I accelerate hard I can feel slight "pockets" in the torque of the car which I take to be a bad sign. So for now I really don't run it any harder than I need to and try to keep below 3200.

From what I've read you just need to take care to do it right, take out the thermostat and give the system a good flush so all coolant, oil, and grime is cleaned out. then fill with clean water and let it idle for an hour or two, then shut it off and let it cool over night. taking care to not push it too hard for the first couple of weeks after.
What is supposed to be the best out there is Steel Seal https://www.steelseal.com/ but they literally want $100 for a bottle of it. http://www.jbtoolsales.com/crc-401232-perm...CFYlhfgodmw0AnA
this other stuff is only $35 , and blue devil stuff is like $30 .
So has anybody actually tried any of these?

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: May 10, 2014 - 1:41 PM

[Box]

Do the head-gasket yourself, it's not too terribly hard and it's cheaper than the miracle in a bottle stuff. As far as swapping engines go I can't really see spending the money to just drop in another 5S, the BEAMS is relatively straight forward and the 1MZ is becoming a more popular choice.

[rave2n]

I agree with Box this time.

If its that rigged, rig it right and better.

[Box]

You mean you don't always?

[Special_Edy]

From a logical perspective, if the cylinder compression is forcing air into the coolant, then how is pouring sealant into the coolant going to fix the leak? If your tire was leaking, and you poured glue onto the outside after airing up the tire, wouldnt the pressurized leak simply push the glue out of the way. You would have to plug the leak from the high pressure side not the low pressure side. So this fact leaves me very sceptical as to how your 14lb(or is it 7?) coolant system is going to hold long enough to cure against your 140+lb on compression, 1000~2000lb on combustion pressure inside the cylinder.

It isnt that difficult to do the cylinder head yourself. The head gasket is ~$80 and the full gasket set is ~$150. If you continue to drive the car you will warp the head, coat the engine compartment in minerals from the evaporated tap water (good luck removing that crud) and most likely burn up your valves or rings. Your cylinder walls will rust and scour pitts in them and if the coolant gets into the oil you will trash your entire rotating assembly and block.

Your first time will take you maybe a weekend to change the head. If you are experienced it only takes 5-10 hours.

Oh and the reason they cut the clutch cover/reinforcement plate (it bolts to your bellhousing) is that the camry 5s has balancing shafts. When I replaced my 5s with a camry 5s I just removed the balancing shaft assembly (6 bolts) tapped out the oil supply hole to the balancing shafts and screwed(copius amounts of red lock-tite) a 7mm bolt into it, and wallered out the bolt holes on the original celica oil pickup(so the balancing assembly 10mm bolt would fit thru it). Then the celica oil pickup and pan fit nicely.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: May 10, 2014 - 12:26 AM

[Bitter]

That gasket sealer will leave a nice coating on everything including the heater core and radiator, plan on replacing the radiator if you use it.

[VavAlephVav]

thanks for the tough-love guys.
ive been looking at vids of people using the stuff and it definitely uses lots of little particles, which is just gonna ruin the whole system.
at least the steel seal is all liquid, but im sure once you use that you won't be able to go back later and actually redo the head.

so I've one more final for Vector Mechanics on Monday then I've got 3 weeks off, and I work at the school so there's no work while we're on break either.
I do have a friend who can help me with this, because I don't quite have all the equipment I need or a garage. ...I just feel like I'm bugging him cause I only call when I need help with my car which is about every 4 months when the break between semesters comes.

but if I do it like this it will just be to take it apart and replace the head gasket and the seals I can easily get to. I wouldn't be able to take it down to the machine shop and wait 3 days for them to do a full valve cleanup like I wanted.

they've got the Victor Reins full kit on Rockauto for $90, or the Cometic kit is like $150, new bolts, and the oil cooler gaskets. what else should I do while I've got it apart? maybe I should take the extra time and send it to the machine shop, it's got 150,000 on it. I think it would only be another $150

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: May 10, 2014 - 1:55 PM

[Special_Edy]

You need the head bolts, they are torque to yield so they arent reusable.
The only headwork I'd recommend is a resurfacing, it costs about $30-$50. Your head is more likely to be warped because of the possibility of overheating from the HGasket and this will straighten it. As long as you make sure all the valve shim clearances are in spec your valves will be fine without being reground.

Only non basic tools you will need are a torque wrench(head bolts) and 30mm socket (for the valve cover) which are available for loan at most autoparts stores.

[Smaay]

You need the head bolts, they are torque to yield so they arent reusable.

once again, yes they are re-useable. you just need to measure the thickness to see if they are still in spec. I have rebuilt several engines and used the bolts over again with no problems.


but there is nothing wrong with getting new ones. or a set of ARP studs

[VavAlephVav]

Thanks, I've read several things that say you should always replace the bolts, some say its more likely the stretched bolts that are the reason the gasket failed in the first place.
I could agree that they may be reusable, but for another $20 I'd rather just get some new ones. I'm always nervous about screwing things up and having to redo it.
and because it doesn't smoke, or act to messed up I'm hoping it's just the gasket and not majorly cracked or ruined. I've never actually overheated it, but idk about before I got it.
/sigh

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: May 11, 2014 - 2:04 PM

[Box]

You can reuse bolts most of the time, but I'd only do such if they're either expensive and/or hard to find. For $20 might as well, then you don't have to worry about it. Like Edy said take it to a shop to resurface and leave it be, plus they should be able to check the valves for leaking just in case. As long as you can follow instructions, and having someone with experience always helps, you should be good to go.

This post has been edited by Box: May 12, 2014 - 1:14 AM

[Special_Edy]

You can also rent a valve compressor tool from the autoparts store too. You can get the valve lapping compound and suction-cup tool for under $10 and lap the valves yourself. Id suggest doing this before you have it resurfaced if you decide to do it so that when they dip/wash the head after resurfacing it will clear out all the gritty valve compound.


Just dont mix up the order of the valves. A good piece of advice is to get an egg carton or two to put all your valve shims and buckets in when you have them out to keep em organized.

[Box]

^That. I've only done it with non-hardened valve seats, but it's an easy and fairly goof-proof thing to do yourself. Then send it out to be tanked and shaved.

[VavAlephVav]

the thing that's bugging me is IF I take it apart and send it to a machine shop and they Then tell me the head (on my DD) is cracked or something I'd be kinda hosed. and as I've called around the different machine shops getting quotes I've been warned to make sure the lifter/valve shims go in just right several times. When I looked at the Toyota engine manual I have I see that you have to take the cams out to even get to the head bolts, that's scary stuff right there.
What I'm thinking now is I can buy a used head ($135) from a decent salvage yard that will guarantee it, and then send it straight to a machine shop to be checked out. and if it's messed up I can get another one before we even take the motor apart.
maybe if I get the head ready and the gasket kit over the summer, then in august I'll only need the $500 labor for the actual job, and I can have it back in not more than 2 days. and somebody I trust knows what he is doing will make sure it's right.
I was planning on pulling a little more from my SL to deal with the motor, struts and tires, then I'll be set. So long as I don't ride it hard it doesn't loose much coolant at all, I'm gonna flush it one time to keep the crap from building up, and that may get me by for the next 2 months.

This post has been edited by VavAlephVav: May 18, 2014 - 12:28 PM

[Smaay]

taking the cams out is not scary. yes you have to do it to get the head off. the shims and buckets come out fairly easily. the lift right out. the shim stays on the bucket pretty good. I need to blast compressed air in the notch to get them to pop off.

if you take them out, just number them with a sharpie I1 I2 I3 E1 E2 E3 etc. etc.

you are going to have to pull the head off regardless.