4a swap??? Options

[celimanST]

I am curious about this swap how much would it cost??? I have not been able to find a 4A engine where could I get one??? What types mods would have to be done in the engine bay??? Do you guys have any info on this swap???

William

[FAQdaWorld]

I'd ask coomer or John (Mynezyes or however u spell it), John but his 4agze in his self, its not currently running yet , and Coomer has a 4age in now that is running w00t!!!!


-Ryan

[toyotaspeed_90]

depends on which "4a" you want.... be it a 4a-ge 16V (low or high comp), 20V (silver or blacktop), 4a-gze (t-vis or non).....

[celimanST]

[toyotaspeed_90]

although coomers is a success..... i gotta ask why? unless you plan on boost later, go for the blacktop (map) based..... it's a better all around motor..... coomer and I are neck & neck... all i have is a smallport 16V in my corolla...

[ghostdog]

[celimanST]

[ghostdog]

why boost a 20v? its not built for it. go with a 4agze

[Coomer]

If you do plan to turbo the engine later, I'd say go for the black top if you're intent on having a 20V. If you're not, go 4A-GZE, assuming you can find someone competant to do the swap. The MAP sensor will work so much better than the AFM will when running a forced induction setup.

As far as cost, my total price for my entire swap, including labor, new stage one clutch kit and aftermarket lightweight flywheel, tons of replacement parts, the engine, tranny, ECU, belts, oil, filters, lines, etc. was around $3,000.

As far as engine bay modification, the stock mounts should work fine. My front mount was a bit damaged and would've required modification, so my mechanic just fabricated a solid motor mount for the front. It's so awesome because the engine hardly moves at all now. You'll have to mount an external power steering fluid reservoir somewhere in your engine bay. Mine is on the passenger-side of the engine bay, close to the power steering pump. You'll have to use a longer throttle accelerator cable, because the stock one won't even come close to being long enough.

If you've got more questions, just reply, and I'll do my best to help out.

[celimanST]

I do have one question if I was to do the swap could I do it in stages and replace the clutch a couple of months down the road??? The reason I am asking is that I read that the silver top 4A will run off of the stock trany at least for a little while anyway.

[toyotaspeed_90]

here... this talks about the entire swap (from a 4a-fe to a 16V smallport 4a-ge.... will talk about similar issues as a 20V, but doesn't go over much wiring seeing how i used stock wiring & ecu)....

my complete swap cost me $1600 including: 4AGE motor, new flywheel, MSD 6al, MSD blaster 2 coil, MSD 8910 EIS tach adapter, KBD header, corolla GTS radiator (new), SARD adjustable fuel pressure regulator & gauge, new cap, rotor, spark plugs, oil, oil filter, belts, new KBD header, thermostat, radiator hoses, GTS gauges (from junkyard), & a couple sensors i had to buy, high flow cat, cat-back exhaust piping and exhaust done at a shop.....

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/219038/9

even though the blacktop is map based and would be easier to work with boost.... the blacktop has lighter internals and it can't handle nearly as much as a silvertop can (which i've heard is lower than the 16V's can withstand... especially the gze which have partially forged internals)...

you could also find a map based 4a-gze ae92 if you look close enough... which is pretty much optimum.... there's another silvertop car (an mr2) around here, which dyno'd at 120hp at the wheels... i put down 109hp at the wheels..... (just in comparison) between mine and coomers, i spent about $1400 less, have 4 less valves, ~200 rpm less, non vvt motor, but have a stronger head and easier to fix & upgrade (in the US) motor....

once you have the motor in, you can do what you want... your stock tranny (assuming your celica is an ST) will bolt up to any A series motor (probably even a 3a-c).... you won't need any custom mounts (although, if you go to a G head you need to bolt your 7a-fe motor mount bracket on the 4a-ge block instead of use the 4a-ge one... the upper part of the mount is slightly different and has timing cover clearing issues)... but as far as accessories read what i talk about in my above link.... i go into depth

[DmVinny]

So would a 4agze be worth it over a 7afe/3sgte swap, as far as cost, difficulty, etc...



This post has been edited by DmVinny: Mar 31, 2004 - 10:39 PM

[toyotaspeed_90]

[DmVinny]

Easier as far as??? do i still have to rewire the ECU? reason im asking the price difference between the 3sgte and 4agze is like $600 to $700...

[FallenHero]

Build up the 7a.

[Coomer]

[toyotaspeed_90]

[celimanST]

when you order a new engine does it come with a ECU??? Will you have to buy a new or have the original reprogramed???

[DmVinny]

[toyotaspeed_90]

with a gze or a 20V yes, you will need the ecu that goes with the motor (if you can find a full 1/2 cut, which makes everything easier then the ecu is still in it) and you'll need the wiring....

if you want to run a 16V smallport, check my site and i'll lead you to the people to get your ecu tuned (and to still use your 7a-fe wiring) for ~$100 and you will be able to use the 7a-fe wiring

[FAQdaWorld]

I'd just like to add that there has been no proof of a successful 4agze into a 6th gen celi yet that i've heard of. As yet John is the closest hopefully he'll be running in the next week or so. But until he's good i'd probably discourage the gze swap for now.... In fact i'm not sure w/ any 4a swaps it seems we are all having problems w/ it.



-Ryan

[Coomer]

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

No offense to you guys interested in a 4A swap, whether its a GE or GZE....i cant see justifying it, and this is from personal experience in having driven with a 4AGZE before. If i had an ST, i would sooner get a turbo set-up and have it all done professionally someplace before swapping out the 7A for a 4A.

I mean, sure...the 4A is a more "performance engine" in its purpose, but the power and cost advntages just arent there in light of the effort involved to make it work. For the ammount of money put into a swap, you could have a 7AFE engine cranking out some pretty reliable and impressive power. It also allows for more displacement than a 4A could provide and to me sounds better running than a 1.6 liter does.

When i drove the MKI MR2 with a 4AGZE, i wasnt all that impressed with the output, even in a lighter vehicle like the MR2. I mean, it had some great response to it when you nailed the throttle even in 5th gear, but i dont think its worth the money and headache to swap it in when theres a boost-stable platform under the hood already.
My opinion is that its simpler just to tune a 7A well to around 160-170 with a turbo than to swap in another engine. Feel free to disagree with me, but i get the feeling that theres alot of hype attached to saying you have a 4AGZE when its not terribly fast and theres easier alternatives.

[FAQdaWorld]

Keep in mind that the 4agze in the mk I mr2 only pushed around 140 ish horses. Newest 4agze creates 170 BONE stock, without any addons and should be able to make it up there to the mid 200's i'd think w/o too much work.

My personal goal is gonna be like 220 wheel hp, and which is probably something like 260 ish crank. Simply adding a sc'er pulley adds like at least 30 hp putting me up to 200. 4agze definitely has potential, AND ITS BUILT FOR FORCED INDUCTION.


-Ryan

[Kwanza26]

[celimanST]

Lets say I was to take Heros advice and build my 7a it would cost about the same right??? I was looking at turbo kits for corollas and they are about 3 grand. If I was to turbo the 7a what kind of prep would need to be done to the engine before hand to make I wouldn't burn up the engine???

William

[toyotaspeed_90]

[celimanST]

Well I have decided that right now a swap is just not realistic right now so, I have decided to do the interior and the exterior. I will be starting with a competition grade audio install, then I will move on the rest of the interior; it will be quite awhile before i will be able to start on the exterior but i do know one thing and that is that the car will be solar yellow.


William

[toyotaspeed_90]

^^^ heh... i made that mistake too... i spent over $2,000 on my system... and at the end i realized i could have had a much faster & fun car to drive...... lol