Sliding on wet roads? Options

[bufferdan]

Whats the deal with these cars steering? Its like when you go around a corner on a wet road and the wheel is turned to a certain point the car wants to slide. Its also very hard to feel the road with these things, the steering is pretty tight but its hard too and you cant feel when your tires are starting to break loose. When my g/f got her GT she almost crashed it getting off the highway when the roads were wet. She just turned the wheel alittle and the thing started sliding and the rear end broke loose also. You cant feel the road at all with this car, i even have 17's with low pro performance tires and you still cant feel crap. Anyone else find this out about yours? It does handle really well but the steering is alittle funky...what do you think?

[Digndoug]

I would first tell you an your g/f to learn how to drive. Second, get new tires, well for your g/f.... I can feel the road perfect, i try hard for the rear end to slide, i get it, but when i do, its because i try... These cars drive very well, and have a great feel, if your looking for better, go buy an m3..... an really learn to drive, im not trying to be an ass..

[subsolo_21]

I have the same prob and I have 17's w/ low profs too . Teh handling is great but I cant feel how well the car is gripping. Ive almost lost it a couple o times. Its hard now since we've had 5+inches of rain in the past 3 days.

[bufferdan]

First of all..Both I and her have 6G celica's. I have also owned MANY other cars and driven tons also. She has new Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus tires (They run over 100$ per tire for 15's!!) They are excellent tires. I have Kelly HPT Charger Performance tires on mine and they have less wet traction than hers but thats besides the point..Its not the tires on the car, its the steering. If you think you can feel the road perfect in these cars then you have never driven a real sports car. You cant feel crap with these things. I have drive about 10 of these celicas and they have all felt the same during cornering. On dry roads you dont have much of a problem but as soon as it gets wet and you turn the wheel alittle too much there goes your front tires. Never had this problem with any other car ive had or driven.

[bufferdan]

[shid]

I have never run into this problem.

[turboinduction]

well i've driven REAL sports cars many times. and i'll say this... its the tires. I've driven AWD (like my talon and STi's) on low pros and they will slip on wet surfaces. yes they have water channels, but they're meant for dry pavement. The celica is a great car for steering compared to others in its class. Yes, i'm probably sure a corvette handles a little better than a Celi.. but for the car we have its great. I dont know about the "not feeling the road" part. I feel my car 100% of the time and force it to understeer and slide. I'm the only one in my city to pull off the 5 sec FWD drift, and it was in the Celi on my stock 15's. (FYI- i had to start the drift around 60-65 and i'm not saying it didn't take many many many tries).

Maybe since you're used to driving real sports cars, you're not used to a FWD setup. Figuring REAL sports cars are normally RWD, your probably breaking the front tires loose too early in the corner and causing understeer. In your g/f's case - tell her to not accelerate until the corner is done thus keeping some traction on those expensive tires.

This post has been edited by turboinduction: Apr 24, 2004 - 2:04 PM

[bufferdan]

She wasnt accelerating into the corner..her foot was off the gas and she was making a slight turn and the tires started sliding sideways. These cars just have wierd steering and the break loose point is real soon. Maybe because its such a light car also...I dont know but i feel much safer taking turns with wet roads in my FWD 3000GT with wore out tires. I would have to turn the wheel twice as much to get the same sliding effect with my 3000. And at least i can feel when they are right on the verge of breaking loose and i can lay off. Different car and different setup is all it is..but im not too fond of the steering on the celica to tell the truth.

[Junior]

[Sirius]

Perhaps there is some excessive play in the steering rack or surrounding bushes.

Whilst my car has a totally different suspension setup to the GT's I find that the car gives excellent feedback. Just out of interest I use Goodyear Eagle F1 tires, at the current exchange rate they work out at about $180 per tyre for me but the grip is excellent in both the wet and the dry.

[x_itchy_b_x]

haahaha this happend to me today. screwed um my car.. sucks. but i think it just a matter of not cutting the wheel so hard maybe?

[bufferdan]

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I ran my dads old '87 Mazda B2200 off a wet road into a guardrail once because he had 10% percent of his front brakes left and totally bald tires. I was only in second gear doing about 5-10 mph because its a very sharp turn that i knew would be slippery. Wet roads are nothing to mess around with though, and the sharper you turn on a corner...even if its slow....the tires lose their composure much easier due to the angle of the wheels, not to mention the outward momentum your car experiences while cornering anyway....you have to understand the limits of the car before you expect it to cling to a corner like its on rails...

Ive never run across any problems in my celica though. Only time the front tires ever let loose was going around a sharp corner late at night from a total stop at a stop light. I also had 3 people in the back seat plus a trunk full of sh**, so it didnt suprise me. Other than that ive had nothing wrong with the handling....i think that it handles great and provides great control due to the wide 15 x7 wheels and tires, so its a total injustice to say it handles bad.

[Junior]

[Sirius]

[playr158]

its called UNDERSTEER, typical of all front wheel drives, too much gas/fast = front slides out...personally me and my car are really close and she tells me everything.. every crack, bump, vibration, or tire slide that is wrong she tells me...the front of my celica only goes out when i want it to...all comes down to if you can drive or not

[ghostdog]

I know what he's talking about. I used to have problems in the wet, but somewhere along the line of upgrading my shocks and getting new tires it is no longer a problem.

[Digndoug]

ok, guys its called learning to drive your car... not a car, your car. Iv driven plenty of sports cars, but for this class, i would say this is the best iv driven..... Learn to drive..... all cars have dif things.. you just learn them and know the points, and then you wont have problems, unless you dont figur right.. or somthing.

[bufferdan]

[Digndoug]

[bufferdan]

Understeer...I guess thats what you can call it...seems like these cars might have alot of it? The car does handle really well, actually it Almost handles as well as my 3000GT with aftermarket suspension. I have yet taken it to its limits on dry road or wet. But when it is wet sometimes i just play with it taking a corner and twitch the wheel alittle farther while im turning and watch the front hop straight for a minute. It just seems to do it too easy is all. But i do beleive upgraded suspension would take car of most of that. SO you guys with aftermarket suspension must not remember what its like to drive a stock celica I know i cant remember how my 3000 was when it was stock..you just get so used to it.

[JDM7afe]

know your cars limits, i know all 4 tires can slide out from under me on smooth DRY concrete if i take a corner too fast/tight and i have my car dropped 2.5 inches(granted my tires suck). i know my car understeers if i get on the gas too early when turning. btw... what gave you the idea that low-pros have good traction in the rain? my suggestion for everybody is to take up autocrossing. thats the best way to learn your car.
Preston

[bufferdan]

[bufferdan]

BTW...the tires on my celica were about 130$ each !! awww...i didnt buy them though. They are nice tires i have to say but not any better than the cheap kuhmo's i like Anyways, its not a wet traction issue with the tires...the car has excellent traction but once you turn the wheel just alittle more...to the side it likes to go.

[Clipsetuner]

Yeah Just sayin I had the Same Problem expect I learned where that point was, so I would Break it loose when I wanted too. I had 4 really bad tires, and really bad brakes, so mabey that helped.
DTE

[JDM7afe]

[bufferdan]

[Kwanza26]

Heh... honestly now guys... you need to re-think your driving habits. If you're going wayy wayy too fast into and coming out of a turn... then it's understeer. You're looking to get yourselves killed in you're understeering in the rain. It's not a matter of judgment or ability or tires... it's a matter of stupidity. The only time you understeer... too much speed into a corner and not slowing down trying to accelerate through it. Tires have little/nothing to do with it in the rain. If you're just sliding and losing traction in regular stop and go driving, (dry road, wet road) then it's bad tires. Speaking as a person who has autocrossed and rallycrossed a 6th gen celica... they're fairly neutral stock with proper braking. They're predictable, slow, they stop/slow down well, and they're well balanced with good spring rates in stock trim. There shouldn't be any traction issues because of the stock suspension. If you're having traction problems, let alone 'breaking loose' the rear-end not because of bald tires... then I'd say you better re-think those driving habits. FF cars don't loose rear-end traction unless you have TERRIBLE rear tires... or you're actually trying to do it... even in the rain. That's the nature of a FF set-up. Predictability. Have fun with your cars... and do it safely.

[bufferdan]

i drive this car slow...the freaking thing bearly wants to move and have to bob my head to make it go fast Actually i like driving the celica cause when i jump in my 3000GT it feels like a freaking race car.

[aaronc222]

I don't know what kind of Kumho's you have, but the Ecsta 711's I had sucked. They were about $100 a piece and had horrible traction.
My favorite tires are Bridgestone Potenza RE730($150 a piece for 205/50/15), though I have RE910 on now(all season Potenza, about $140 a piece).
Between the two, the Kumho slide like mad and were actually less predictable when they got warm. I get more traction out of the RE910 then I did out of the Kumho 711.
As far as the rear sliding, I don't have to use the ebrake on dirt(Rallycross) or when it rains. Every car has it's own charecteristics, and the Celica is easy to slide, you just have to become more sensitive to the input. It's there, you just have to be missing it.(Or your Kumhos are giving you problems like mine did).

[Kwanza26]

[97GTinKC]

The Michelin Pilots that came on my 97GT were terrible in the rain after they got a little wear, it really did feel unsafe in wet turns even at lower speeds, The stock 7th gen 16"wheels and Yokohama A680 tires are MUCH better in the wet, but dont handle as good in the dry. I'm now looking at either Continental Conti-Extreme or Cooper Zeon 2XS for all-around everyday driving. anyone have experience with either of these?

[bufferdan]

[aaronc222]

[Kwanza26]

[KAMiX]

Kwanza you are wrong mate, you can get them out with a flick. I wouldn't exactly call it drift, more like a slide but you can do it.


Bufferdan I think you are crazy. The understeer in our cars is awesome, I know within a mm of how far i can push before i lose it. I am always getting a bit of front slide happening through the wet hill drives, you just need to know when to accelerate.

What you are talking about will NOT happen if you don't have your foot on the gas. And only when you are in a certain zone when your wheels are excessively turned and you are going a certain speed (accelerating at about 25 kph). You are talking about spinning your front wheel (inside) or wheels in the wet which then causes understeer... it's usually the inside one because bodyroll will lift it up... this happens because you have carried too much speed into the corner and are oversteering to get out of it.

[macavely]

New Wet/Dry Tires

This post has been edited by macavely: Apr 24, 2004 - 10:13 PM

[Kwanza26]

[acidbyte7]

thread was too long to read through but i don't know if anyone has mentioned that all frontwheel drive cars have bad understeering problems...if your coming around a turn with a f- drive car to fast when its slick the car will start sliding the direction the car is facing the rear wheels won't slide but the fronts will go straight instead of the direction they are pointing in because of the momentum of the car...and uhhhh why is it that you were taking a turn that fast when it was slick out? were not in nascar...and we don't have pit crews lol not trying to be a dlck but when its slick out you can take fast turns espeacially in a front wheel drive car

[Kwanza26]

[Sirius]