 Give reasons for the fakeness, Car Domain person |
 Nov 7, 2004 - 12:57 AM
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 Enthusiast  Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%)  |
Okay, here's the link:
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/681848 and here's the picture that gives it away  i'll be silent and let you guys answer why. i tried replying, but yea...car domain sucks and wont let me log it all of a sudden. oh yea, zooming in photoshop doesn't proove much of anything because the quality is poor, even though the hood is pretty uniform except by the scoop --------------------  |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:06 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
so let me get this straight... the TMIC comes through the hood?? wtf??
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:08 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
reason #1 brought out
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:11 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
 oh no!!! you didnt see it!!! vrrrrooooom the guys got 6!!! thats right SIX 3SGTE's under the hood!!!! -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:12 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
and ask DJMC why you need to fake **** online....
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:16 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Mar 8, '04 From Newport, RI Currently Offline Reputation: 63 (99%) |
that is funny
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:16 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
more pointed out....
in the top pic on cardomain, the FMIC overlaps the heat shield with the "hot" symbol on it... and that hose that goes into whatever kinda blends into the turbo.... in the second pic, correct me if im wrong, but the TMIC doesnt sit up that high.... the third pic, he has the stock exhaust... you would need much bigger for a 3rd gen 3s.... -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:23 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
okay, i'm going to post my main one before someone else does...
it might even be wrong. but look at the struts, they slope toward the inner of the car, and i believe the 6th gen celica's struts are flat(if i remember putting on the TRD strut brace right) -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:26 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
oh, and i misunderstood you on your first point then.
he claims to have cut out a hole to vent the engine, but if you think about it swappers are FORCED to do a FMIC unless they have a GT4 hood or make room for the engine. so my pt would be the TMIC should be too high for that hood to where it is practically flush with the rest of the hood. -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:34 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
thats what i mean.... it looks too fake.... like it lines up perfectly flush with the hood...
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:37 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
it SHOULD line up perfectly with the hood, but it doesn't...it is close
and even if it did... why would a person who spend $3500 on an engine be cheap and CUT his stock hood for "vent" the hold isn't center, or evenly horizontal, but i can't really complain about that, because i dont know if the 3S sits off-center -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:39 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
now that you point that out your right.... it looks like its too far back on the hood... it looks like it should be up towards the front more....
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:57 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Nov 15, '02 From Vidor, TX Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
i hate to say it guys either its legit or he has good attention to detail look at the secong pic enlarged good now look at the very top right by the prop rod see it yep its the cut in his hood....... however in the first pic the thing that caught my attention was that you tmic was sitting flush or nearly flush to the hood.... i though cant work the structual ribs would be in the way... took a second look at the pics and saw that the ribs were cut back to allow this to work ..... now why did he spend all that money on the engine but not do proper hood work to make it look nice ......
-DMC |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 2:57 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Dunno... I'm torn... One part of me says its real.. but then another part of me says its fake. If the guy knows wiring then this wouldnt be hard to figure out in terms of making it work for a 6th gen. But on the other hand the damn thing just looks like its floating in the engine bay... right around the whole thing is black, which is a perfect move for a photochopper to get clean edges and IMPLY shadows. I dunno... someone ask him to get more pictures.
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Nov 7, 2004 - 3:03 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Mar 8, '04 From Newport, RI Currently Offline Reputation: 63 (99%) |
The FMIC in the engine bay pic is slightly to the right. In the hood pic it is to the left... and the toyota symbol looks bigger in the engine bay pic
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:26 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jul 19, '04 From Los Angeles, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) |
Sure would have fooled me... Either its legit or he is insanely good with Photoshop. IMO, its real.
REAL st215: 
This post has been edited by CheesyLobster: Nov 7, 2004 - 5:31 AM |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:40 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Mar 31, '04 From Summerville, SC Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) |
Hmmm... I don't know. The Toyota symbol does look photochopped. But it does make sense that the intercooler sits flush with the hood, because the reason it won't fit under the stock hood is because of the ribbing under the hood. He cut that it out and it just fits. My vote is it's real. As far as why he spent all that money and then cut a hole in his hood, be probably thinks it looks cool, especially with the Toyota symbol on it. Note his post:
Find out where this guy is and I'll drive up and find out myself...  *edit* He's in Drummondville, that's like an hour away or something. I'll email him and try to get together. This post has been edited by raven_101: Nov 7, 2004 - 5:45 AM -------------------- -Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaire Click here to see my swaps drtweak@phoenixtuning.com |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 12:22 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Feb 25, '04 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I guess he did fix the hood -Ti |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 12:33 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
that was the funniest thing ive seen all day -------------------- i am awesome
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Nov 7, 2004 - 12:40 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
the more i look at it, the more it seems real
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Nov 7, 2004 - 12:46 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
are those break lines running across the left strut?
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Nov 7, 2004 - 1:05 PM
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Cause i like too!!!! hahahaa skeet skeet skeet!!!! BONGGGGGGGG
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Nov 7, 2004 - 3:54 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
im pretty sure it is real
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Nov 7, 2004 - 3:58 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
that SUCKS
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Nov 7, 2004 - 4:26 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
NO offense but you guys are idiots, nothing there says fake, he cut a whole in his hood so his IC doesnt get heat soaked.
Photoshop isn't a magical program that makes fake photos automatically. Oh that guys rims look big, they must be photoshopped. oh that engine swap looks complex, must be photoshopped. that bodykit looks wicked, must be photoshopped....SHUUTTTTTTT UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP FFF*********************CCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKK |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 4:41 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
woah buddy... calm down there... It's going to be ooookay.
P.S. You are pretty stupid if you dont know the extent of realism that photoshop can create. Odviously you dont know its capabilities and you shouldn't act like you do. Having said that... I for one believe that it is real... I looked along time at those photos and I can't seem to find any real reason as to it being fake... I would like to know more about this guy and his car... anyone have any more info? This post has been edited by Doge: Nov 7, 2004 - 4:46 PM |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 4:42 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
check out vin diesel chilling with my car
This post has been edited by Andason: Nov 7, 2004 - 4:42 PM -------------------- i am awesome
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Nov 7, 2004 - 4:48 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
that's 100% real
and Uppity, i was 1/2 asleep and it seemed fake, the IC seemed way too low for a stock hood, and initially when i zoomed the pic there was distortian around the hole he cut... but after i thought about it, it'd be distorted anyways, due to the color change(green to black) heh, i generally think that if there's a person that claim to have a lot done and they've never been seen here, there's a decent chance it's fake, because just yea. where's the best place to get info, parts, ANYTHING: the internet what happens when you search 1994-1999 celica you get 6gc
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:15 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 29, '02 From ny to philly Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
no but some people are way too good at it.. so really you can never be too sure http://www.iacoski.com/ |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:17 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I know exactly the realism it can create, I also know that 99% of people aren't capable of creating that realism, hense it being ignorant to label everything amazing or out of the ordinary on the internet as fake. Ive seen plenty of amazing photoshops, but even the good fakes can be spotted, but theres also a certain amount of logic behind real fakes, making a perfect hole in your hood for the seemingly real engine swap isnt one of them. Its not just this post, everytime anything is posted people jump on it like some kind of expert. I'm quite familiar with the program and also skilled with it. |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:18 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
and thats a very good example of a good photoshop artist, most regular joes can't create anyhting close to that. So some obscure page on cardomain is unlikely to have a picture perfect photoshop, let alone one with no real reason for existing. |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:22 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Sorry man, that wasn't really an attack on you, its just kinda annoying to see every cool thing ever posted picked apart as a photoshop, and then someone comes along and says "oh no thats real, Ive seen the car"....I guess my whole gripe is that its not as easy as people make it out to be. Also I slept like **** last night so Im in one of those asshole moods 
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:54 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
you almost got a posttacular on that one uppity
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Nov 7, 2004 - 5:58 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
Grif, are you making up words again?
don't know what im talking about www.redvsblue.com and search for RvB on w/e p2p you use i hijacked my own thread...muahaha -------------------- |
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Nov 7, 2004 - 6:04 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
isnt that a halo video? i've heard of it....
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Nov 7, 2004 - 6:11 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
yup...a spoof...4th season i believe
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Nov 8, 2004 - 10:42 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 21, '04 From New York City Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
celicarocker that's mad funny man lol
6 3sgte lol. well... i dunno. it looks pretty real in the engine bay but still... a stock muffler?
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Nov 8, 2004 - 10:53 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
im not gonna say weather its real or photochoped, all's im saying is alot of elemtents of it look photochopped... and tim you could take a class at my highschool that taught you how to make a photochop look that real...
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Nov 8, 2004 - 6:04 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 29, '03 From canoga park , ca Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
who cares if its real its still supid. and yes his car is faster than mine but his still looks dumb!. and thats that
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Nov 8, 2004 - 6:35 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Feb 10, '03 From Connecticut Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
thats no normal TMIC, different.
This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 8, 2004 - 6:35 PM -------------------- |
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Nov 8, 2004 - 8:50 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
what????
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Nov 8, 2004 - 9:01 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Sep 28, '03 From Bloomington, IN Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
A truer ricer comment was never spoken -------------------- NASA/SCCA RX-7....currently under the knife
92 Civic hatch B16 - Sold 10th anniv RX-7 - RIP The Slow Celica - Sold...and then crushed crushed due to street racing. Quote from Seinfeild: George's Boss reading a magazine: "People magazine's most beautiful people. Oh and a Celica...nothin wrong with that!" |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 2:28 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 19, '04 From Los Angeles, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) |
I think that if its real that its pretty awesome. I've never seen a successful st215 swap. |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 2:58 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jan 10, '04 From Shoreline, WA Currently Offline Reputation: 4 (100%) |
Am i the only one who can tell that its a 5sfe with a turbo charger, and top mounted intercooler, and swaped intake manifold, maybe i have spent enough time under my hood to see it, not photoshoped, just a wanabe.
This post has been edited by creis: Nov 9, 2004 - 2:59 AM --------------------  |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 3:09 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Yes hes a wannabe because he turbo charged his car with the best available parts 
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Nov 9, 2004 - 3:15 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Aug 19, '03 From Buffalo,NY Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
did any one think it could just bea regural 3sgte 2nd gen with a upgrade tmic/excuasht manifold?
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Nov 9, 2004 - 3:56 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Davenport Iowa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I'm voting its a fake.. a VERY convincing fake but still a fake and heres why... Look really close at the 1st and 3rd pics.
look at the firewall behind the intakemanifold on the 1st pic. you will notice where the postition of the two bolts for the front strut tower are located... you may need to look at your own engine bay to figure this out a little easier. Now look where the hole is for the strut tower bar that is closest to the dirverside. now look at that in comparission to the "T" emblem on the top of the TMIC. They line up pretty good. Now if you had looked at your engine bay you may of noticed that the pass wiper mounts about 2 inches to the right of that bolt that I just talked about. Now lets move to the 3rd pic.... look at the postion of the wiper (where it mounts) in comparrison to the "T" symbol.... Either that motor shifts over 2" when you close the hood or its a fake, for him to put the cutout on the hood in the correct place it would of made the pic look like it was faked... even though it was in the correct postion.. granted he did move it slightly to the pass side but not far enuf. I still give him credit though.. had me convinced that it was swapped right up until I noticed the differnce in the TMIC though PS: I also agree with whoever posted about there being too much black around the motor EDIT: that and for the motor to be only in there for a month or so.. that paint is in pretty good condition around the cutout... common sense would lead you to belive that if you did cut it out.. which those lines look perfect by the way... that there woud be bare metal etc.. the cuts dont really look repainted and I see no point to not install a $100ish hood scoop after dropping all that cash on a swap but still repaintin the hood where you cut it This post has been edited by NEVERSTOP: Nov 9, 2004 - 3:59 AM --------------------  99 project version 3.0.. hello SEMA 2010 =) |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 4:08 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I think your really grasping for anyhting there man, all those pictures being faked to fool the 5 people who have probably seen that page just defies all logic.
No doubt the hood could be fake. If your whole arguement is for the hood been fake then ya, but the engine, I dont think so. To much black around the engine? Its an oversast day. The part I find hard to believe is he found 2 pictures with the perfect angle, lighting, and resolution to transplant into his car. Also look at the second picture, the "t symbol" lines up to the very same spot as the picture with the hood closed. Anyone with some touch up could patch the edge that was cut, also not everyone has money to burn all the time, so likely after finishing a swap he didnt have another grand to spend on molding a hood scoop and paint. Also hes from montreal, a canadian hot spot for jdm engines, so having a swap wouldnt be anything out of the ordinary there. This post has been edited by Uppitycracker: Nov 9, 2004 - 4:18 AM |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 4:19 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Davenport Iowa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
LOL ne one that spends a grand on havin a hood scoop molded on is a dumbass! there more things im noticing in the 2nd pic of the motor... like the throttle cable that goes nowhere.. or the size of that alternator in comparison to the ABS box.. or just how damn close that turbo is to the radiator... just things like that.. granted I have never seen a 215 3s in person.. dont think ne of use have so it maybe bigger than a 2nd or 3rd gen but I really dont think it would be.. that motor looks about 5% too big If its real well he did a good job.... If its fake well he did a good job.... eitherway congrats to him  Edit:
if you already have the pics you can go take your own.. there are TONS of way to maniplute things in PS man specially if you have a digi camera and a car you go take pics of
This post has been edited by NEVERSTOP: Nov 9, 2004 - 4:21 AM -------------------- 99 project version 3.0.. hello SEMA 2010 =) |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 4:28 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
1. I was just throwing a number out there, but you know how most people do things Im sure even yourself, get the swap done as soon as you have the last penny saved, so the first sign of trouble your left waiting for more cash, so Im sure a hole in his hood was a corner he was willing to cut. 2. werd 3. Yes with in reason, like you said if he went and took the pictures himself, which even crossed my ming, but like I said he lives in a place common for engine swaps so to me its more likely its real. And ya like you said, the st215 3s is probably unfamiliar for most if not all people on this board, and little deails like a cable are easily lost in pictures of that quality, its hard to make out alot of things in that engine bay, but its still consistant as hell which makes me think its real. This post has been edited by Uppitycracker: Nov 9, 2004 - 4:29 AM |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 4:33 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Nov 4, '02 From Davenport Iowa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
okay agreewith the canadians gettin down with motor swaps.. but look at both of the eninge pics agian.. they differntly where not taken on the same day if there real.... infact alot has been done inbetween those pics electircal wise if there real.. open up both engine pics and put them side by side.. then look at the alternator... the wiring that runs next too and above it are different.. there are a cluster of wires completly MISSING in one photo...they kinda come across the upper timing belt cover... theres alot more but its like 3:30 in the mornin and im too tired to debate weither some guys car in cananda is fake or not... I dont think its real -------------------- 99 project version 3.0.. hello SEMA 2010 =) |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 4:37 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
haha ya Im going to bed, I dont see a difference in the wires, maybe 1 or 2 but most still fall in the same place, plus canadians dont lie....ever!
Anyways hopefully this guy joins the site and settles it once and for all I looked for an email addy but didnt see one.
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Nov 9, 2004 - 6:10 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Mar 4, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I could for sure be wrong, but I'm almost 100% sure that people have run their 3s' with the stock hood temporarily with no problems. If you look closely, you will see that it is not flush, the IC is still a bit below the hood. Edit.. So has anyone actually identified what engine it "is"?
lol dude sometimes you are so funny you actually make me laugh But yeah I hear ya.
I haven't zoomed the pic but you can get a good cut like that by duct/gaffa taping top and bottom and doing a slow wet cut. This post has been edited by KAMiX: Nov 9, 2004 - 6:30 AM |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 10:18 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 10, '03 From Connecticut Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
nevermind, didnt realize it was ST215
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Nov 9, 2004 - 2:05 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
It's fake... i'm positive now... the biggest factor is that his downpipe is missing after the elbow... it just turns to black.. a shadow most definately cant make something disappear in a picture that has that much light... its fake
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Nov 9, 2004 - 5:40 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Apr 28, '04 From Houston, Texas Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) |
Saynugs TMIC fits under his stock hood just fine with no rattling on the hood or anything. I've seen it many many times. I'm confused - you guys are saying it won't fit? --------------------  |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 6:56 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 12, '03 From Chatham, Ont Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
how can you even see the downpipe in those pictures anyway?? I think he photoshopped the radiator in to, cause its to black, andd umm the interior, the front grill, the cowl vents, the wheel wells, they are all way to dark to be real, even though the shots are all overcast and dim lit...... He didnt even stop with the celica!!!!! in the forth picture portions of the Jeep and toyota truck are black!!! He photoshopped them too!!! wow insane! This post has been edited by Uppitycracker: Nov 9, 2004 - 7:06 PM |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 7:11 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 25, '03 From cranston RI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
VRRRROOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!! -------------------- |
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Nov 9, 2004 - 9:52 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
^^^^
h000tttnnesss -------------------- i am awesome
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Nov 9, 2004 - 11:24 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 25, '02 From Pittsburgh/Clairton, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) |
it's still real as far as i can tell.
the only thing that's odd is how the power for his audio system(which is supposed to be "stock" blends in with what appears to be an O2 sensor -------------------- |
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Nov 10, 2004 - 12:28 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 19, '04 From Los Angeles, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) |
Other st215 pic:
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Nov 10, 2004 - 5:17 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You're right its not the downpipe... its the elbow... but again.. it disappears... I'm willing to bet money that it's fake... I'm in a graphic design major and I these pictures to my photoshop instuctor today and he pointed out alot of things that were wrong... but again.. nothing can be proven until its... well .... proven. You should go look at your engine bay on an overcast day that has as much light as those pictures uppity... you can see in the shadowed areas more clearly than on a really well lit day. |
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