Camshafts, where??? Options

[edo17982]

Hi guys!
Do you know if there is someone who produce more performant cams for 7AFE engine?
the only site I found with aftermarket cams is Import performance
which sells TopLine cams. Who know about this manufacter?is it good?
Also, does anyone know how to get regrinds, valves and springs for better performance and which are stronger than stock?

Thanks

[edo17982]

None?
Please!
I need better cams than stock!!

[Charlie97L]

you'll have to get them custom re-ground, or just custom, period. no one makes performance camshafts for the 7afe. why would they? it's an economy engine. and besides, to get decent power, you'd have to go with such a high lift that your idle would be terrible, not pleasant to drive on the street. i'd expect about a 10 HP gain from getting your camshafts reground.

[west_minist]

My advice to you is to swap with the 4AGE 16v/20v

[edo17982]

I know West, but in Italy I'm going directly to jail if I do a swap and I also loose the insurance coverage in case of accident.....that's the way I don't do it.
Check in my profile my performance mods. If I'm going for a reground, which duration values should I use?

[west_minist]

Ok. understandable.

But if you modify, and you get in an accident, what?

[FallenHero]

I'm surprised. I though america was the only place with the crap 7a in a celica.

[zigy]

hey west_minst .... how about going with 4AGE automatic ..... possible??????

[west_minist]

yep, that can also work.

I think the automatics have a slightly bigger cam than the manual.

Either way, if you are going to use a manual later, it is wise to get a manual ecu or an aftermarket computer since the maps will be set up differently.

[edo17982]

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 23, 2003 - 7:22 PM)

Ok. understandable. But if you modify, and you get in an accident, what?

it depends by the type of accident.....maybe if it's cause u're going too fast (and in Italy we ALWAYS go over the limit.... ) there are some complications......anyway....do you know which durations may I use for cams?

[edo17982]

QUOTE (FallenHero @ Apr 23, 2003 - 7:52 PM)

I'm surprised. I though america was the only place with the crap 7a in a celica.

oh no.....in europe we've the ST with 7AFE but with rear discs and the GT with 3SGE, and naturally the GT4

[west_minist]

Ok.

I believe that you duration right now maybe 228 -234.

If so, 254 - 262 maybe go.

Cranecams or MSD will help you out here.

You need to get a cam to operate in the engine sweet spot..

If you are going cams, get a customer header build bu pitshop or some other muffler dealer..

with new cams, look to increase air flow filter , 2.2 -2.5" exhaust with high flow muffler with increase of fuel for more HP & Torque

[edo17982]

you mean 254 for intake and 262 for exhaust or 254 - 262 for both?

[west_minist]

MSD or cranecams will help you on this.

I all 256 or all 262.

It maybe better to go with 256 since your engine might now be able to rev to 8000rpm.

[edo17982]

so 256....ok

If I regrind I cannot change the lift....what about the (I don't know to say in english) cross values?

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 24, 2003 - 5:48 AM)

MSD or cranecams will help you on this. I all 256 or all 262. It maybe better to go with 256 since your engine might now be able to rev to 8000rpm.

no, cams don't allow you to rev higher, valve springs do.

there are NO cams for the 7afe, i don't know why you people are all talking about like 256 and 264 for.

there's basically only 1 way to regrind your cams. webgrind or weber cams or something like that, reground some guy's 5sfe cams. it was like 600 bucks i think. but if you're in europe, i have NO idea.

[edo17982]

QUOTE (Charlie97L @ Apr 24, 2003 - 3:59 PM)

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 24, 2003 - 5:48 AM) MSD or cranecams will help you on this. I  all 256 or all 262. It  maybe better to go with 256 since your engine might now be able to rev to 8000rpm. no, cams don't allow you to rev higher, valve springs do. there are NO cams for the 7afe, i don't know why you people are all talking about like 256 and 264 for. there's basically only 1 way to regrind your cams. webgrind or weber cams or something like that, reground some guy's 5sfe cams. it was like 600 bucks i think. but if you're in europe, i have NO idea.

I think you're not right charlie....the cams let you get higher RPM band....Of sure if u're going to get more RPMs you need better valve's springs to avoid the risk of a crap ....also better retainers are suggested for high RPMs, but as I know are the cams that let you reach an higher RPM band....

This post has been edited by edo17982: Apr 24, 2003 - 10:32 PM

[west_minist]

QUOTE (Charlie97L @ Apr 24, 2003 - 5:59 PM)

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 24, 2003 - 5:48 AM) MSD or cranecams will help you on this. I  all 256 or all 262. It  maybe better to go with 256 since your engine might now be able to rev to 8000rpm. no, cams don't allow you to rev higher, valve springs do. there are NO cams for the 7afe, i don't know why you people are all talking about like 256 and 264 for. there's basically only 1 way to regrind your cams. webgrind or weber cams or something like that, reground some guy's 5sfe cams. it was like 600 bucks i think. but if you're in europe, i have NO idea.

Hi guys, please read carefully.

I stated that he should get cams in the engine sweet spot.

If you get big cam, over 262, you will have to rev a little more for more power.

These is also the problem that the engine will not be able to use the big cams due to small ports and vavle size and other small factors.

Is that clear enough?

[west_minist]

so charlie, you are saying that cranecams or msd cannot produce cams for you?

[Kwanza]

QUOTE (west_minist @ Apr 25, 2003 - 3:32 PM)

so charlie, you are saying that cranecams or msd cannot produce cams for you?

I believe they regrind your stock cams...

Anyways, there's no real point in going with performance cams unless you're gonna build an all-motor track engine. I mean, re-ground cams idle like crap, typically shift the powerband into the high rpms, and make a daily driver drive like crap, especially since the 7A is already a fairly weak low-end motor.

And... why do you keep telling people to get 2.5" catbacks? That's too huge for 4 cylinder cars, even 6 cylinders. You'll lose more than you gain.

And about revving... your stock cams can rev beyond redline... it's the ECU that automactically cuts fuel... The revving isn't limited by the cams, it's the electronics.

[KAMiX]

kwanza I think you're wrong with the exhaust mate..

My muffler shop (huge performance experience) were telling me that going 2" upto 3" on the 6th gens doesn't lose ANY power whatsoever - and they showed me some dyno runs to prove it - mainly of lancers and celicas/corollas with 2.5" and 3" systems.

I was talking to them about this as I am planning on doing the swap, but want to get exhaust first.


From what I understand you only have to key in the exact size exhaust on turbo cars.. although he said going with a 3" on my engine will make it sound ****ING loud

[Kwanza]

QUOTE (kamixZR @ Apr 26, 2003 - 12:04 AM)

kwanza I think you're wrong with the exhaust mate.. My muffler shop (huge performance experience) were telling me that going 2" upto 3" on the 6th gens doesn't lose ANY power whatsoever - and they showed me some dyno runs to prove it - mainly of lancers and celicas/corollas with 2.5" and 3" systems. I was talking to them about this as I am planning on doing the swap, but want to get exhaust first. From what I understand you only have to key in the exact size exhaust on turbo cars.. although he said going with a 3" on my engine will make it sound ****ING loud

Sorry, but your exhaust shop seems to be confused. In Austrailia, I'm sure there are a bunch of turbo charged Corollas, Celicas, and Lancers, which will feel gains from large exhaust systems (2.5" to 3.0"). As far as a n/a 4 cylinder goes, excessive airflow creates very low back pressure, which is essential for the engine to function. It's sort of difficult to explain, but I'll try.

Here's a comparison: When you run/jog, you get tired right, and thus you need to breath harder, to inhale enough oxygen to get to your blood. Ok, now let's say you're running a relay in Death Valley, and then one in Aspen, CO (note the differences is elevation...but disregard heat/cold...we're talking about backpressure here). You will get more tired in CO than in Death Valley, why, because of the thinner air, easier flow, and less backpressure. I know it's not the best example, but crap...it's not easy to just explain.

Ok, back on to cars now... now we have a relative idea of what backpressure is, let's say you do slap on a 3" exhaust on your car. Your car will be pushing air out so fast, you'll hit negative psi of backpressure (if that's possible). By doing so, your car will tire and suffocate because it feels it's not getting enough air (and no...intake fans and stuff aren't enough...but forced induction is) Either way, there's a sweetspot, in the exhaust pressure than you want to try and control. Letting too much out too fast, you'll lose a lot of low-end power. Not letting enough out, creates excessive backpressure (restriction) in the exhaust.

Get it now...?

This post has been edited by Kwanza: Apr 26, 2003 - 11:28 PM

[SuperMica]

Nice little info. section and hay thanks for filling me in about back pressure.

[jayi12-15psi]

west once told me that the cams (at least on the 5s) will actually improve drivability. I think he also said that the crane regrinds produce almost 30 extra horse(correct me if I am wrong). but I'm not to sure about on the 7afe

[3TST]

Lets try and get back to basics on this.
You need to understand the engine firing cycle first. This is how I remember it...
suck, squeeze, bang, blow.
The fuel mixture is forced into the cyclinder on the down cycle of the piston (suck), the pistons compress the mixture on the up cycle of the piston (squeeze), the plugs ignite the mixture causing a down cycle of the piston (bang) and the gases are evacuated on the up cycle of the piston (blow).

So what does this have to do with the camshafts?
You have to understand what the camshafts do.
They open the intake valves to allow the fuel mixture to enter the cyclinder and then, after the firing seqeunce, they open the exhaust valves to allow the burnt gases to evacuate the cyclinder.

An increase in the the amount of mixture in the cyclinder means that the piston has to work harder to compress this mixture.
If you have an increase in mixture then you'll have an increase in the burnt gases thus you need to evacuate the gases better.

If re-grinding/upgrading your camshafts, to get maximum effect, you'll need to upgrade your air/fuel distribution, ignition and exhaust.

Hope that sheds some light on the issue.

[west_minist]

[3TST]

If your in Italy try:
http://www.colombo-bariani.com/storia.html

[BlackSTX]

[3TST]

Here are a couple of other sites that I found that might help with the explanation on camshafts:
http://www.drschrick.de/english/index.php
http://www.arrowprecision.co.uk/

Basically, an increase in the degree of the cam has the effect of opening the valve for a longer time thus this is the duration that the valve is open.
If the valve is open longer then this allows more air/fuel mix into the cyclinder (suck cycle) and more gases let out (blow cycle).

Something to bear in mind is that in order for the cams to meet there full potential other mods need to be done: air, fuel, ignition and exhaust upgrades.
(One example, no point in the the exhaust valve opening longer if the header is restricting/can't cope with the extra gases being forced out).

This post has been edited by vphmc: Aug 25, 2003 - 5:59 PM