RWD Celica, Swapping Supra drivetrain into Celica Options

[darksecret]

I know some might flame me for this but I was doing some research and the Supra is almost the same size as the Celica, wheelbase is only around 23mm apart and the width hopfully rotor to rotor (still need to get exact measurement) is only 98mm apart. the width wont be much of a problem due to the flare on the rear fenders and length can be overcome by a custom bellhousing that will be required. I got the idea from the Top Secret Supra. I know the Getrag will be a tight fit but it might be possible to do this without cutting the firewall. I'm know most of the parts I need and I know how RWD vehicles are set up so that is covered, I also have a live in welder (uncle) so fab work isn't an issue. Some might think this is highly impractical and they're right but it's a great concept that I will pursue. I'm going to hit up Supra forums and try to get more measurements for the drivetrain, etc. If anyone that can help with research it will be appreciated. Anything will help but I could use shifter placement, 3S-GTE width pully to output shaft and Getrag input shaft length. As I pursue this project I will post what I can and if it bombs at least there will be information for any other brave soul that wants to take this on.

[Blakout16]

im not gonna flame, but gl... if it goes thru. that'll be totally hott.

[macavely]

ok i'm going to say this IT CAN BE DONE .... just take ur time and do ur home work on everything both the supra and celi ... u'll need alot of custom work .. but still doable... good luck ..

[darksecret]

Im waiting on a post from Curt at the Supra Store about the 6 speed. I already know the cost of the Getrag and what is required for it to work I just need top to bottom, width and input to output measurements

[Coomer]

The Supra's tranny is pretty big. You will have to cut the firewall. Good luck! I want to see someone complete this project.

[Digndoug]

I would like to see this too, but why not make a rear wheel drive with the 3s-gte, thats should cut back a lot of extra time work engery money fabbing.. just a thought?

I think a rwd celi is a rwd celi.. An the 3s-gte would make a lil more sence.

[jgreening]

I would like to see this too, but why not make a rear wheel drive with the 3s-gte, thats should cut back a lot of extra time work engery money fabbing.. just a thought?

I think a rwd celi is a rwd celi.. An the 3s-gte would make a lil more sence.
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How do you propose getting the rear wheels to spin from a horizontally mounted motor?

[Digndoug]

I would like to see this too, but why not make a rear wheel drive with the 3s-gte, thats should cut back a lot of extra time work engery money fabbing.. just a thought?

I think a rwd celi is a rwd celi.. An the 3s-gte would make a lil more sence.
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How do you propose getting the rear wheels to spin from a horizontally mounted motor?
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haha, yes i guess i over looked that.. thinking more use the awd tranny. but NM

I think if you want a rwd car, get one thats stock.

[Coomer]

You could use the 3S-GTE coupled with an Altezza tranny. Then you'd have more room, since the 3S-GTE is quite a bit smaller.

[lagos]

supra parts wont work... the motor and trans are just too damn big. you best bet would be to source a rear diff and driveshaft from an alltrac and try to custom mount that

[darksecret]

supra parts wont work... the motor and trans are just too damn big. you best bet would be to source a rear diff and driveshaft from an alltrac and try to custom mount that
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When did I say I would use a 2JZ, good motor but I know its too big.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 14, 2005 - 8:17 PM

[darksecret]

I am getting the idea for this project from the Top Secret Supra. The biggest problem I think I will have is with mounts. The TS Supra had enough room for a 3SGTE and the radiator to lay flat, so the 3S might fit.

[playr158]

yea i want to do this project eventually good stuff that your goin for it
don't listen to people who say "its too big" "just get a RWD car"

but yea 3sgte altezza tranny and you'll be gravy should be really hot just make sure everything is perfect square

[darksecret]

What kind of HP and TQ can the Altezza transmission handle. Getrag is 1200HP and the only true failures are age and missed shifts.

[darksecret]

The Supra's tranny is pretty big. You will have to cut the firewall. Good luck! I want to see someone complete this project. :)
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I need to check the slope of the bellhousing to see how much to cut but i've run driveshaft tunnels before and seeing that the Celica already has one I just need to check the feed from the firewall to the tunnel.

[darksecret]

As a note im from charlotte and yes I couldnt pass inspection with a set up this wild, but it doesn't take much to get this registered in South Carolina.

[orvillescelica]

I dont think that you will be able to fit the 6 speed trans in without a lot of cutting and banging. Even SC300 guys have a lot of problems getting a getrag to fit, and there car is based on the Supra frame. Maybe try their 5 speed trans. But then again, there is the question Jay brought up. Interesting project, if you do attmept it keep us up to date

[Shigexile]

man... i was thinking the same, RWD Celica... Well good luck!

[CheesyLobster]

I want to see someone actually try this. People say that its impossible or impractical, but really, if you did it, you would be the only one in the world! That right there makes it worth it. Go for it, and good luck!

[Kwanza26]

I really really hate these topics... because 90-99% of the time, the people who start these topics... don't know what it takes and don't have what it takes. Here are some simple ones... What rear end? What rear suspension? What about the steering rack? Engine? Trans? Reinforcement? Subframe? Crossmembers? Wiring?

Many people have already "claimed" to be doing RWD conversions, and many are gonna try and "prove me wrong"... but so far... I'm something like 100%... so you're just another new name on a long list of dreamers... How old are you anyways?

[popstar]

yeah great, but why RWD ?

why not just build yourself a GT-4.......

power from a GS GTE and AWD, far better than a RWD unless you want it for drifting ???????? if you want traction AWD and as it already exists you have all the parts and info you need

[playr158]

RWD isn't usless for just drifting?
its a great platform for oh drag tooo dur
AWD 6gc already exists too

this project is about beatting the odds, doing what sumone hasn't b4, having an ORIGINAL piece

and kwanza although i do agree with about 98% of what you say cause it really is good info......that was arogant of you to post.....#1 your not god here there more mechanically indepth people here then you, there are people OLDER/Done this longer/and achieved more then you...your not the only one here who can do projects.....
#2 WTF DO AGE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
he can be 12 for all we care as long as he tries......
#3 i hope he does it to spite everyone

[4wheelWOnder]

I agree.....having the only 6gc possibly in the world, with rear wheel drive only, will make toyota clap their hands..........its all about uniquness, and if he said he can do it, i and many others on this forum, would like to see if he can bring it.............just because its unique.

[darksecret]

I really really hate these topics... because 90-99% of the time, the people who start these topics... don't know what it takes and don't have what it takes.  Here are some simple ones... What rear end?  What rear suspension?  What about the steering rack?  Engine?  Trans?  Reinforcement?  Subframe? Crossmembers? Wiring?

Many people have already "claimed" to be doing RWD conversions, and many are gonna try and "prove me wrong"... but so far... I'm something like 100%... so you're just another new name on a long list of dreamers...  How old are you anyways?
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That is why I am doing my homework now. I know what it takes to make RWD and i've take into consideration the amount of work. To answer your questions the rear end will be from the Supra (if my measurements are correct), the suspension will be a wishbone set-up, the steering I haven't tackled yet, the transmission will be a Getrag 6, I can't answer reinforcement since that could be anything, the subframe will be stock but possibly modified to accomidate the mounts and front wishbones, crossmembers will be a typical RWD set-up (basically most RWD unibody cars have the same set-up) wiring will be custom, I mean completely custom (I love wiring). So I am ready to find what it takes and for anyone that is also willing to try this here is a link that might ease some pain http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm

[BBoYRuGGeD]

darksecret you brave brave man(and if u pull this off you ARE the MAN).... do it.... do it...... DO IT!......



BBoY

[thedevilmaycrie]

hey you have my support ... if you need any help on the 3sgte ask id love to help out... for the wiring since your going big on the whole setup id suggest a haltech or other EMS... please keep us up to date and let us know what we can help with... dont give up

-DMC

[darksecret]

I want everyone to know that I am taking all opinions into consideration and as I stated in my first post I know this is impracticle and it will be more work than it seems worth but if I can produce these results this will definitly be a unique vehicle. I know that this is very possible due to the chassis layout. It will take a while due to the amount of modification required but if someone can stuff a twin turbo iForce V8 with RWD into a 5th Gen then I wont give up.

[Coomer]

Yeah, that's a good point...I almost forgot about that car. You may want to look at using the ST205 rear end. Didn't that twin turbo fifth gen. with the V8 use the stock ST185 rear end?

[darksecret]

Hey Kwanza im 21 and have built or help build 1 950Hp Blown Chevelle, 1 650Hp All Motor Chevelle, a 400Hp GMC Sierra, and now my next project is this and probably turbocharging a 02 Lancer OZ. I know it sounds like talk but if you give a couple of days I can find pics of all of these. The Chevelles are my uncles and the truck was mine, sold it for this car. I have track slips for the Chevelles somewhere also. I was told the truck has a video but a friend has the tape I haven't seen it but i'll try to find it. Given time I can show some proof.

[darksecret]

Yeah, that's a good point...I almost forgot about that car. You may want to look at using the ST205 rear end. Didn't that twin turbo fifth gen. with the V8 use the stock ST185 rear end?
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I can't remember, I have pics and he mounted it to the sides of the frame so if that set-up worked then mounts might not be as much of a headache. Only thing is the V8 is much wider so the mounts would have to be set lower. I would like to get the dimensions of the 3S from the pully to the output shaft, mainly to see what room I have to work with. If I can set the Getrag far enough forward then I wouldn't have to worry about cutting the firewall. Rear ends are pretty generic as far as design, its the axles and differential that make the biggest difference, U-Joints and axles can easily be made so it's more about what kind of housing will fit the width and the types of diffs that can be used.

[easternpiro1]

Hey dark im ALL THE WAY BEHIND YA MAN!! Some people forget that making vehicles as they are now were once thought IMPOSSIBLE! years ago people thought we couldnt get a man on the moon, and some dont know it happened! DO THA DAYUM THING! (and being im in charlotte, too, ive GOTTA see this!!!)

[shid]

Uhh, you keep saying your inspiration is from the top secret supra, which stuffed the 3sgte in the engine bay.. but the 3sgte easily fits into the supra's engine bay cus it's SMALLER than the 2jz engine. You keep saying how they fit, well. Cool. Too bad it doesn't matter at all since you're trying to do this in a much smaller celica engine bay. You can fit a ton of crap in a supra bay that you can't fit in a celica.

So, step one, stop drawing inspiration from a supra setup.

This post has been edited by shid: Mar 15, 2005 - 12:33 PM

[darksecret]

Uhh, you keep saying your inspiration is from the top secret supra, which stuffed the 3sgte in the engine bay.. but the 3sgte easily fits into the supra's engine bay cus it's SMALLER than the 2jz engine. You keep saying how they fit, well. Cool. Too bad it doesn't matter at all since you're trying to do this in a much smaller celica engine bay. You can fit a ton of crap in a supra bay that you can't fit in a celica.

So, step one, stop drawing inspiration from a supra setup.
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Have you seen the TS Supra, the 3S sits far enough back in the engine bay to consider it a Mid-Engine. Any engine that sits between the Front and Rear suspension assembly is a Mid-Engine.
I don't have a 3S to measure but I can try to find a Supra. There are 3 in the East Charlotte area and I don't know the owners or see them often. Also I base the Celica off the Supra due to the measurements of the two cars are within inches of each other. the biggest difference is that the Celica is an AWD style chassis so the weight of the car car is more balanced on all four wheels than the rears and the driver area is set further forward reducing the engine bay by around 1' 6" compared to the Supra, but look at the TS and you'll see that there is a radiator thats facing the ground.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 15, 2005 - 12:52 PM

[darksecret]

The only problem I believe will be that the Celica was designed with a forward slope on the hood so the engine had to lay back in the bay. Hood clearance might prove to be an issue. Im suprised that after thinking of the drivetrain issues that the hood could be a real problem.

Edit: That still wont stop me from trying though. Everyone remember there is a method to my madness.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 15, 2005 - 1:00 PM

[Kwanza26]

and kwanza although i do agree with about 98% of what you say cause it really is good info......that was arogant of you to post.....#1 your not god here there more mechanically indepth people here then you, there are people OLDER/Done this longer/and achieved more then you...your not the only one here who can do projects.....
#2 WTF DO AGE HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING
he can be 12 for all we care as long as he tries......
#3 i hope he does it to spite everyone
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Heh... I don't claim to be anything player... unlike you. I can just tell from the way people post and address their questions whether or not they are capable. I ask basic questions which help determine their capability. I'm not here to put anyone down or anything like that, but I am here to approach tuning from a realistic standpoint... again... unlike you who simply repeats any and every idea ever... don't challenge me boy...

Hey Kwanza im 21 and have built or help build 1 950Hp Blown Chevelle, 1 650Hp All Motor Chevelle, a 400Hp GMC Sierra, and now my next project is this and probably turbocharging a 02 Lancer OZ. I know it sounds like talk but if you give a couple of days I can find pics of all of these. The Chevelles are my uncles and the truck was mine, sold it for this car. I have track slips for the Chevelles somewhere also. I was told the truck has a video but a friend has the tape I haven't seen it but i'll try to find it. Given time I can show some proof.

So you're saying you have no toyota experience? Not the answer I was looking for, but it's good to know you're not 15 or 16... Talk is cheap... remember that. As for the TS supra, mid engine, blah blah... FYI, being mid engine doesn't mean the engine has to sit between the front and rear suspension. I can say for sure, MR2's don't, in fact, most transversely mounted engines sit either right on, or a little bit in either direction from the suspension towers. It's always like this to increase front grip. The reason a car is called mid engine, is because the engine is literally in the middle of the car. The old bugs are called rear engine, cause they have no compartment behind the engine, while the MR2 and NSX have a little trunk behind the engine... hence, mid engine. The only reason the TS Supra has a 3SGTE sitting all the way to the firewall, is because of weight balance... other wise wouldn't Mazda be calling the RX7/8 "midengines"?

Anyway, to "help" you on your way, the 3SGTE can fit longitudinally in the Celica bay, but you will have to address the steering rack, which will be blocking the tranny, the exhaust downpipe, and the engine. This reason alone, you cannot mount the 3SGTE really far back there, and you'll need to do a significant chop of the firewall. This is the largest problem... even greater than custom fitting a rear-end. Good luck... but I have a feeling I'll still be 100%... prove me wrong.

[darksecret]

Kwanza Toyota experience or not cars are not as complex as people like to think. Most people get scared of doing a project like this but I live for this. Some people couldn't tell you how to build or fix a computer but I do it daily. I spend my time either working on computers or cars and now it's time to do something that is fully possible. Like I said I have considered a lot of problems that could arise but when the first Chevelle I helped my uncle with s*** the bottom end of his 400 small block because he was showing off and changed his nitrous jets we didn't give up, the car went through 3 engines before he finally went for a blown 427. My point is no matter how long or what it takes this car will be a RWD Celica and it is very possible

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 15, 2005 - 1:59 PM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I really really hate these topics... because 90-99% of the time, the people who start these topics... don't know what it takes and don't have what it takes.  Here are some simple ones... What rear end?  What rear suspension?  What about the steering rack?  Engine?  Trans?  Reinforcement?  Subframe? Crossmembers? Wiring?

Many people have already "claimed" to be doing RWD conversions, and many are gonna try and "prove me wrong"... but so far... I'm something like 100%... so you're just another new name on a long list of dreamers...  How old are you anyways?
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Come on man, don't be hatin. There's no harm in talking about it. It's all in good fun you know. If someone eventually really does it, that would be awsome. But it's still neat to talk about the theoritical "how to."

[darksecret]

I don't want everyone to give Kwanza a hard time I like the fact he's bringing up questions like those, it gives me something to consider when overcoming this. Im researching this stuff now and when I get my data together I will start looking for parts. It's better to blue print an engine before you actually get the parts. I want questions that are going to make me think, I don't want people who heard from a friends cousins friend that the motor mounts from the 3S will not fit because his psychic told him it wouldn't. Im not mad at Kwanza for this and I don't have a reason he's giving reasonable questions and comments other than the no experience with Toyotas, i've had this car for about 3-4 months or something like that, my brother had this car for 2 years and his friend got it new so I now a little about it. Let's say I know more now than I did 3-4 months ago. Im actually serious about this conversion and that is why I have this much info, but as Kwanza said I do need to consider the steering rack as with other items. Kwanza you also shouldn't bash someones ability to work on a car, a year ago I wouldn't trust my girlfriend to change her air filter, but she is getting better. I do believe that if you don't know what you are talking about not to give advice on something, so then you ask someone who knows and learn.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 15, 2005 - 2:26 PM

[darksecret]

Also Kwanza on the Mid-Engine thing http://www.topsecretjpn.com/gt300.shtml
Check were the strut towers are on the supra and where the gears are on the 3S.
http://www.rsportscars.com/foto/10/acuransx05_engine.jpg
I can find a better pics of this but it will work for now
http://www.autoweb.com/content/research/vi...es_id_int/38371
heres another

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 15, 2005 - 2:45 PM

[shid]

Uhh, you keep saying your inspiration is from the top secret supra, which stuffed the 3sgte in the engine bay.. but the 3sgte easily fits into the supra's engine bay cus it's SMALLER than the 2jz engine. You keep saying how they fit, well. Cool. Too bad it doesn't matter at all since you're trying to do this in a much smaller celica engine bay. You can fit a ton of crap in a supra bay that you can't fit in a celica.

So, step one, stop drawing inspiration from a supra setup.
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Have you seen the TS Supra, the 3S sits far enough back in the engine bay to consider it a Mid-Engine. Any engine that sits between the Front and Rear suspension assembly is a Mid-Engine.
I don't have a 3S to measure but I can try to find a Supra. There are 3 in the East Charlotte area and I don't know the owners or see them often. Also I base the Celica off the Supra due to the measurements of the two cars are within inches of each other. the biggest difference is that the Celica is an AWD style chassis so the weight of the car car is more balanced on all four wheels than the rears and the driver area is set further forward reducing the engine bay by around 1' 6" compared to the Supra, but look at the TS and you'll see that there is a radiator thats facing the ground.
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Dude, you don't get it do you? I don't give a rats ass about the TS Supra, because it has NOTHING to do with you attempting to put a RWD drivetrain on a celica. So I don't see why on earth you keep mentioning how your project is possible because of the TS Supra, they don't have anything to do with one another. a 3sgte powered supra isn't proof that you could jam the same thing into a much smaller celica.

[RbrtNdrws]

sounds fun, if you need any moral support, I'm about an hour away lol. I am not much with engine work but I can cheer you on..

-Rob

[thedevilmaycrie]

i say stop with the flaming ... at least till and if he fails... other wise sean this goes for you to if you dont have anything nice to say ... dont say anything at all... and the reason, i believe, he is refering to the ts 3s swap is for the amount of room that is in the engine bay... he gave measurements for how much smaller the celica engine bay is it kinda to give you an idea on how much space he has to work with... without cuting the firewall up... am i right?

-DMC

[darksecret]

Dude, you don't get it do you? I don't give a rats ass about the TS Supra, because it has NOTHING to do with you attempting to put a RWD drivetrain on a celica. So I don't see why on earth you keep mentioning how your project is possible because of the TS Supra, they don't have anything to do with one another. a 3sgte powered supra isn't proof that you could jam the same thing into a much smaller celica.
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[/quote]

You haven't read this thread yet have you? The TS Supra was the inspiration for the idea. I don't have a Supra, my car doesn't have RWD yet. If you take a Supra and a Celica and flip them over then you will see the they are a little similar such as they both have tunnels for the driveshaft and axles and without the gas tank on the Celica there's room for a differential. The Supra has a larger slope to acommidate the Getrag. Not to insult your intelligence but have you been under a RWD car?

[darksecret]

As I said before if anyone has a reason why this would not work such as suspension issues, etc. then I want to hear them. If someone wants to say it wont work because my car is not a Supra and the engine bay is to small then don't post. This is a technical thread and I know the engine is a tight fit so unless someone can give me measurements on the 3S pully to output and top to bottom so I can compare measurements then don't say anything about the 3S not fitting. If it will not give me a good reason why and some figures. I don't get my information from opinions but if a group can give me some fairly accurate numbers then it's ok. The measrements do not have to be exact but if the numbers are close cool. This isn't engine building anyone that has a 3S doesn't need to measure with a dial caliper. The car will not sieze up if the motor is sitting 3 inches from the radiator. Shid the only thing I can find that even relates to your post is hood clearance. Also the whole thing behind the TS Supra is that it proves the 3S can be mated to the Getrag 6, which is one of the best transmissions on the planet. If a Richmond or Tremac which cost more could handle the power that the Getrag can then I would look into them.

[darksecret]

Im done for today, but tomorrow i'll try to post most of the ST Chassis dimensions.

[nik]

just a question if your running your axle down that tunnel where your exhaust is now where are you going to put your exhaust?

of coarse we all know you are going to cut the gas tank to fit your stuff

bracing for the back but that goes along with all the custom work back there

is it doable yeah but is it worth the money? or you can say

you can just as easy buy a 90 all track or older celica that is already RWD

So what are you going to be doing with this car? show , daily driver, track/drift?

[spunky393]

More than likely he'll go with a fuel cell. It's the smartest and better idea. He won't have to worry about cutting issue's. Correct Darksecret?

[OrbitalGT95]

All i have to say is that you better drift that f#$ker if you make it work...a drifting celica would be the hottest thing next to the olsen twins pre drug abuse days

[playr158]

yea i'm really jealous cause when i get most the work i'm doing now done and get the money my ST is goin RWD too great that your doin this so it will be documented b4 i get to it haha or atleast i hope to get to it

"you can just as easy buy a 90 all track or older celica that is already RWD"

^^DUUR all trac isn't RWD its AWD lol
but thats not his point he wants UNIQUE/DIFFERENT/STAND OUT

sock it to em

[Defgeph]

I would like to see this happen, don't let the haters bring you down.

I would think that the supra is wider in the rear, wouldnt you need a custom differential ? I thought I read that you were gonna have wishbone in the rear. If so, maybe you should look into a 205 rear suspension set up.

Good luck
DEF

[darksecret]

More than likely he'll go with a fuel cell.  It's the smartest and better idea.  He won't have to worry about cutting issue's.  Correct Darksecret?
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I know I said i'll be back tomorrow but I can't help myself, yes a fuel cell or the tank from a GT-Four is required (don't hold me to the GT-Four tank though). The ST204 tank sits in the area for the rear end. Fuel Cells are actually a really good option anyways due to the cost being so low on them. The only thing that will need to be cut is an area for the lines to run through the floorboard and possibly a bottom housing for the cell.

[darksecret]

I would like to see this happen, don't let the haters bring you down. 

I would think that the supra is wider in the rear, wouldnt you need a custom differential ?  I thought I read that you were gonna have wishbone in the rear. If so, maybe you should look into a 205 rear suspension set up.

Good luck
DEF
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It's possible to use that set up as long as the rear end has the clearance. If I use the ST205 rear it can clear some measurment problems but I haven't checked rear end options yet. I haven't got the measurements for the Supra axle housing yet but it shouldn'tbe much larger than the ST205 and the TRD diff. for the Supra has already proven to be very capable.

[darksecret]

Alright I got off work and went straight to my garage lifted my car and checked the most important underside measurements, if everyone with a 6th Gen takes a measuring tape and check these same areas you will come close to these results, these might be an inch off but thats because I did this with all the parts still in the car, when I do strip it down I will measure in mm to be more accurate.

Engine Bay:

Top to Bottom Front: 21"
Top to Bottom Rear: 29" (I checked on the passenger side about 8" from the centerline)
Width: 36" (This is from the smallest points I can find)
Depth: 34" (This is from the radiator, not support to the firewall)
Driveshaft Tunnel Height: 7" (If the shift cable shield is removed there is a smooth area where I believe to be the mount area for the center diff.)
Driveshaft Tunnel Width: 6"
Driveshaft Tunnel Length: 64" (This goes from the firewall to the rear end housing area, the transmission and the rear end will take some of this area)
Rear End Width: 58" (From the backs of each rotor)
Rear End Height: 12" (This is probably a couple of inches off due to the gas tank)


If any one is wondering how I got the height measurements I used a level and went from the lowest chassis point on the car. On my car the actual lowest point is the cat.

I know the 3S is a different motor the the 5S but I checked it and for the people thinking that the 3S wont fit the bay then they are wrong. I can turn a 5S and still have 5"-6" of clearance on either side at the shortest point. I didn't mention anywhere that I probably won't keep A/C. Around here it's not that important.

[darksecret]

just a question if your running your axle down that tunnel where your exhaust is now where are you going to put your exhaust?

of coarse we all know you are going to cut the gas tank to fit your stuff

bracing for the back but that goes along with all the custom work back there

is it doable yeah but is it worth the money? or you can say

you can just as easy buy a 90 all track or older celica that is already RWD

So what are you going to be doing with this car? show , daily driver, track/drift?
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Where does the exhaust run for the '90 All-Trac it has an "axle" running down the tunnel. Sorry about saying that, but the exhaust will have to be custom to let the driveshft run down the tunnel. Exhaust is expensive but an easy fix. The exhaust might be a low set and could possibly scrape but its not very hard to add skid plates to keep the car from bottoming out on the exhaust. People with bags do it a lot and I think it looks stupid but to save my $1000 exhaust any cheap insurance will help.

[Kwanza26]

So far, everyone has a pretty mundane opinion. You are approaching this from a logical standpoint, but I still must say, you gotta do more research regarding the differences between a FF chassis and an FR chassis. It's not a matter of "possibly" fitting the engine... it's a matter of getting it to work. For one, FF cars are not designed for a longitudinal set-up, so the firewall, steering, front frame/crossmembers/reinforcement, will either be in the way, or be completely useless. You just gotta work around it. You still haven't addressed the problems I mentioned. As for the rear suspension, there will be minor issues, but all shouldn't be too big. If you get an ST165/185/205 rear-end, it should be fine... but there will still be a fair amount of custom fabrication to get things to work. There are differences between the trunkpans of the FF celica and the AWD celica.

This is my last response here. To close, the only reason you're not getting pwned by me, is because you are looking at this from a more practical position... I really could care less what the dreamers out there wanna think, but from my standpoint, even I wouldn't think to chop up a car like this, and I build import performanc cars for a living. Not that it's not possible, but just not practical. Think of it this way... Honda tuning is the BIGGEST thing in the import scene in the United states... but how often to you read of or see radical RWD conversions? Out of the countless number of Honda tuners... only a handful have ever been done. You're standing on a stage all by yourself... so any opinion here, mine included, is really not worth your ears if you're really truely serious. Good luck... and again... prove me wrong...

[darksecret]

So far, everyone has a pretty mundane opinion.  You are approaching this from a logical standpoint, but I still must say, you gotta do more research regarding the differences between a FF chassis and an FR chassis.  It's not a matter of "possibly" fitting the engine... it's a matter of getting it to work.  For one, FF cars are not designed for a longitudinal set-up, so the firewall, steering, front frame/crossmembers/reinforcement, will either be in the way, or be completely useless.  You just gotta work around it.  You still haven't addressed the problems I mentioned.  As for the rear suspension, there will be minor issues, but all shouldn't be too big.  If you get an ST165/185/205 rear-end, it should be fine... but there will still be a fair amount of custom fabrication to get things to work.  There are differences between the trunkpans of the FF celica and the AWD celica.

This is my last response here.  To close, the only reason you're not getting pwned by me, is because you are looking at this from a more practical position...  I really could care less what the dreamers out there wanna think, but from my standpoint, even I wouldn't think to chop up a car like this, and I build import performanc cars for a living.  Not that it's not possible, but just not practical.  Think of it this way... Honda tuning is the BIGGEST thing in the import scene in the United states... but how often to you read of or see radical RWD conversions?  Out of the countless number of Honda tuners... only a handful have ever been done.  You're standing on a stage all by yourself... so any opinion here, mine included, is really not worth your ears if you're really truely serious.  Good luck... and again... prove me wrong...
[right][snapback]257892[/snapback][/right]

Thanks for the input Kwanza. I know the differences between RWD and FWD chassis set-ups and under the Celica there will be the front crossmemeber, the rear crossmember, the steering rack, and the rear suspension that will have to be addressed, I was under the thing for 3 hours last night just looking for things that would be in the way. This isn't the first time someone has made a FWD into a RWD and this isn't the first for a Celica. It's possible and not as bad of a task as everyone thinks. It will require a lot of custom work, but im not building a space ship here. the chassis can stay around 97% intact, unlike say a Honda Civic which has been through the conversion and those guys had to run tunnel work all through the car before they can even address the issues i'm at. If I had a FWD car that has always been a FWD car and nothing else then this wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. I strongly believe that Toyota destroyed the Celica when they made it FWD, it was ment to be RWD or AWD and since Toyota was smart enough to make the GT-Four they made this task much easier. Also I don't build import performance cars for a living, I am a PC Technician, but I have enough people on my side that have built dirt track cars, stock cars, drag cars, drag bikes, Im friends with Gary Hargett (the man the got Dale Earnhart Sr. and Jr. racing) so I got the mechanics to help, I just would like to get help from the people that own, drive, and live for this car. As you can tell Kwanza obviously i'm no slouch when it comes to cars, import or domestic, so I highly believe this project is possible. Looks like you'll have to find out.

[Exile04]

hi i just want to wish u luck and a few questions,

Would it be hard to go awd? and do just want RWD?
Also would it be easier to make a custom driveshaft?
Or use a olfer celicas RWD setup?

Sry if this questions or stupuid or already answerd

[SlowCelica94]

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?

[jayi12-15psi]

that was more useless than this post

[madmods]

I say good luck, and hopefully you achieve this, and if not post regardless, because someone in the future will try this and will learn from the experiences on websites like this.

[playr158]

i'll learn from this i really am interested in his swap i think yes it is IMPRACTICAL for him to do
but worth it? HELL YES THIS IS WORTH IT

i think you should defenitly consider using the 20x rear supension set up since it was designed for the celica and will relieve you of many further complications and fabrications to get the rear diff to work cause it would involve a few less changes....for the drive shaft defenitly custom for the hell of it go C/F lol that would be hotness..
exhaust hmm side exit would solve it but make good noise
a/c yea 99% sure you'll have to ditch
steering? hard issue to resolve?

who said 2jz?


good luck with this man!

[Jeremy1210]

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.

Anyway, I hope that you do this. Don't let anyone on this site turn you away from what you want to do. Kwanza has good questions and is challenging you to see the difficulties in doing this so when you decide to do it, you will have all the questions answered.

[CheesyLobster]

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.

Anyway, I hope that you do this. Don't let anyone on this site turn you away from what you want to do. Kwanza has good questions and is challenging you to see the difficulties in doing this so when you decide to do it, you will have all the questions answered.
[right][snapback]258395[/snapback][/right]

Please, neither of you be negative. There is criticism, and there is malice. Don't confuse the two.

[maikl]

well we have a rwd subaru sti here in cyprus.... but i gues it's easyer to make a 4wd-rwd than an fwd...... good luck with it, atleast have fun in the prosses and don't get nervous, stressed etc..... enjoy the project;)

This post has been edited by maikl: Mar 17, 2005 - 3:29 AM

[darksecret]

hi i just want to wish u luck and a few questions,

Would it be hard to go awd? and do just want RWD?
Also would it be easier to make a custom driveshaft?
Or use a olfer celicas RWD setup?

Sry if this questions or stupuid or already answerd
[right][snapback]258138[/snapback][/right]

It would be more work to go AWD and I also want to have the only RWD 6th gen. that I know of. Also AWD is good but the only main benefit of AWD is traction and a well set up RWD can prove to be great at traction also. This link will give some reasons why AWD isn't as good as people think. www.i-supra.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=154607117&f=2686087201&m=8316093631

The driveshaft will probably need to be fab'd it determines what the measurements are from the transmission U-Joint to the diff. U-Joint.

It would be just as hard to fit an older Celica's drivetrain, easier to find the parts but still the same work. If im doing the same work then I can just source one of the best drivetrains in the world. Basically, why use a drivetrain from a 20 year old car that would probably fail after a few months of pounding or one that is a few years old that loves abuse.

[darksecret]

Engines these days pratically swap themselves.
Step 1: Remove 5s/7a
Step 2: Just toss 2jz in there. Turn up side down for that cool "angled exhuast" look.
Step 3" Pour a few quarts of oil on engine.
Step 4: Close hood.

Give the celica about a week so the 2JZ can get use to being in there. That wasn't so hard, now was it?
[right][snapback]258193[/snapback][/right]

You forgot to add a pinch of salt to taste.

[darksecret]

i'll learn from this i really am interested in his swap i think yes it is IMPRACTICAL for him to do
but worth it? HELL YES THIS IS WORTH IT

i think you should defenitly consider using the 20x rear supension set up since it was designed for the celica and will relieve you of many further complications and fabrications to get the rear diff to work cause it would involve a few less changes....for the drive shaft defenitly custom for the hell of it go C/F lol that would be hotness..
exhaust hmm side exit would solve it but make good noise
a/c yea 99% sure you'll have to ditch
steering? hard issue to resolve?

who said 2jz?



good luck with this man!
[right][snapback]258226[/snapback][/right]

Steering isn't all that bad. If you take apart a steering system then you have a lot of metal shafts. The steering system sits next to the firewall but it doesn't mean it has to stay there. When I help on drag cars we sometimes opt for a Mustang II steering system and relocate everything.

[SlowCelica94]

I think he is trying to be funny or something, but it turned out lame as his usual posts do turn out.
[right][snapback]258395[/snapback][/right]

This is true.

[shid]

Linking to a supra "FAQ" about why RWD is better than AWD isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.

[darksecret]

Linking to a supra "FAQ" about why RWD is better than AWD isn't exactly an unbiased opinion.
[right][snapback]258512[/snapback][/right]

Doesn't matter if it came from Car and Driver, it's just plain common sence.
AWD is good, but it's heavy and it does have higher cost due to more parts.
I would love to have an AWD car but as they said in the forum it's performance is exaggerated by video games.

[shid]

its not just plain "common sense". the AWD and RWD platforms have plusses and minuses which I am not qualified to discuss- I am qualified enough to know that a bunch of supra owners are a little biased and defensive about their cars (drag queens called by some) so a faq from a supra site IS NOT unbiased, it can NOT be a primary resource for AWD vs RWD- thats common sense

[darksecret]

its not just plain "common sense". the AWD and RWD platforms have plusses and minuses which I am not qualified to discuss- I am qualified enough to know that a bunch of supra owners are a little biased and defensive about their cars (drag queens called by some) so a faq from a supra site IS NOT unbiased, it can NOT be a primary resource for AWD vs RWD- thats common sense
[right][snapback]258668[/snapback][/right]

If you read the forum from i-supra then you would see that they aren't bashing AWD, they are describing the negatives to having AWD, believe me if AWD was so bad then why would they have put a Skyline drivetrain and RB26 a Supra. I chose the RWD set-up for the Celica because that is what the FWD models should have been and most of the people at this forum can agree. I don't like FWD but I love this car enough to live with it for now. I was raised around RWD sports cars and the Celica even has a RWD feel, until you dump the clutch. I like the traction of the AWD but when I can take a GMC Sierra and run with a WRX that little bit off the line doesn't mean much when your car struggles through 3rd, point is as far as traction goes AWD has it, but it's cheaper to buy a set of DOT slicks for a RWD Celica than to spend the money on a limited drivetrain. To prove my point ask the DSM guys which drivetrain can handle more power for less money and the GS-T will out do a GSX anyday.

Edit: This is my final post on AWD vs. RWD since this is a tech thread about a RWD conversion.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 17, 2005 - 6:18 PM

[playr158]

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?

[FallenHero]

custom drive shaft can be had rather easily... A minitrucker friend of mine told me one for his was under $200 (I think..)

Any moron can make the rear end work. i'd personally buy something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...ssPageName=WDVW

that is about the right width and weld or mount that jule any way i could. That way, it's in there and you don't have to worry about it.

Rear end=no problem as long as there is enough brcing back there to hold it. I personally have never been under the car to get a good look, but I am sure it's there.

As long as you have a hatch i think the well for the drive shaft will be there. After all, I doubt the floorpan for the GT4 is that remarkable. yes, I am sure it's different, but a plasma torch and a welder can fix that up quite easily.

The engine however... mounting will be no problem. Talking the accessories into working... good luck. My advice: use the same steering rack and accessories off of the car you lift the engine from. If you don't, you will have no chance of talking the power steering into working. The ac will have to be plumed, along with Everything else. Plus you will have to figure out a way to get a bigger radiator in the nose of the beast.

Good luck mang, I'll believe it when I see it... just like Neverstop's and Igotta5sfeturbo's GT-4 conversions. Just like the supra conversion down in florida, just like all the other talk I hear.

Not bashing you, just telling the truth. Anything I can do to help, and any info I can give you, I will.

[darksecret]

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?
[right][snapback]258780[/snapback][/right]

I wont spend the extra cash to make a C/F driveshaft since they aren't worth it. I will probably just get a standard steel or aluminum cast. I got some buddies at a driveline shop in the next town that can do it.

[darksecret]

Most people think that the rear end has to be welded to the chassis, but that isn't true. The rear is set in with the suspension system, if you unbolt the rear suspension assembly you will find the rear end will just drop out. If the rear was mounted to the chassis then every bump you hit will jar the rear end and it will be the worst ride of your life. Take for example a full size truck since it has the easiest to view suspension (and normally the easiest to set up) the rear axle is mounted to the leaf springs.

This post has been edited by darksecret: Mar 18, 2005 - 10:38 AM

[AndyST4]

The easiest way to make a rear wheel drive celica is to use the whole st205 drive train and tranny. The rear end bolts up, but the floor pan needs to be modified and the gas tank needs to relocated or go to a fuel cell like you have said. And there is a way to convert the tranny to just rear wheel drive, I don't know exactly how it is done I just know that on some of the eclipse drag cars they use the gsx awd tranny and convert it to just rwd

[darksecret]

The easiest way to make a rear wheel drive celica is to use the whole st205 drive train and tranny.  The rear end bolts up, but the floor pan needs to be modified and the gas tank needs to relocated or go to a fuel cell like you have said.  And there is a way to convert the tranny to just rear wheel drive, I don't know exactly how it is done I just know that on some of the eclipse drag cars they use the gsx awd tranny and convert it to just rwd
[right][snapback]259346[/snapback][/right]

It could work but the 205 transmission can't handle the power the Getrag can. A fuel cell is going to be used regardless. Plus the Getrag is a RWD transmission anyway and its been mated to the 3S already so I know the system can work.

[AndyST4]

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up

[Kwanza26]

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up
[right][snapback]259603[/snapback][/right]

If you don't know how it's done... don't bring it up. Converting an AWD tranny to RWD is not easy and requires a completely custom differential when dealing with transaxles. Might as well build a new tranny while you're at it.

Also... don't even say "bolt up". Bolting up is EASY... getting things to work is HARD. Sh!t... a 3SGTE "bolts up"... but only a VERY small percentage of Celica owners have done the swap. The 4AGE 20V "bolts up"... but only 2 people in the United States has ever swapped the motor into a 6th gen Celica.

I say again... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't bother trying to pass advice from wherever you heard it or read it from.

[AndyST4]

i guess it just depends on how much work you want to put into it, but couldn't you build the alltrac tranny to handle the power, and save yourself a lot more headache, because almost everything would just bolt up
[right][snapback]259603[/snapback][/right]

If you don't know how it's done... don't bring it up. Converting an AWD tranny to RWD is not easy and requires a completely custom differential when dealing with transaxles. Might as well build a new tranny while you're at it.

Also... don't even say "bolt up". Bolting up is EASY... getting things to work is HARD. Sh!t... a 3SGTE "bolts up"... but only a VERY small percentage of Celica owners have done the swap. The 4AGE 20V "bolts up"... but only 2 people in the United States has ever swapped the motor into a 6th gen Celica.

I say again... if you don't know what you're talking about... don't bother trying to pass advice from wherever you heard it or read it from.
[right][snapback]259716[/snapback][/right]

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you. If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them. I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy. I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while. Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?

[97sccelica]

And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?

tubular frame built around a RWD setup 3sgte(from an altezza, it would be a PITA to convert a horizontaly mounte 3sgte into a RWD 3sgte) with fiberglass/CF body panels making the car look like a 6gc.

thats definately the easiest way, certainly not the cheapest, but never-the-less the easiest.

imo, the only way to go about the rear end/rear suspension is to get an ST205 rear clip

any other setup would require way more custom work, and just plain my not be possible with out rebuilding the whole rear end of the car(like those guys with RWD hondas did)

as for the AWD vs RWD, i like being able to use every drop of power i have at any time, go ahead and list off every advantage that RWD has over AWD, then list the disadvantages of AWD and i will still prefer AWD. i have friends with high power RWD cars, and they cant use any of there power until they are at speeds where i like to end races(~90mph)

thats why i would rather do an st205 conversion than rwd. yea, there may be more parts, but atleast they arent custom parts(or as many custom parts as a rwd conversion) the handling characteristics will be more predictable too. who knows what a RWD converted celica will want to do when you take it on the road. the suspension would need a lot, and i mean a lot, of tuning.

and building a high power muscle car is nothing at all like this project. every single part you can think of is made for a chevelle, in either bolt on or weld on configuration

this project is re-engineering the car entirely, not spending money and getting parts with instructions. be prepared to spend a lot of time, money, thought, and hard work into this project. and count on not driving your car for a few years.

[Kwanza26]

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you.  If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them.  I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy.  I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while.  Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?
[right][snapback]259757[/snapback][/right]

I keep reading them because I'm curious about experimental ideas... but there's a fine line between experimental ideas, and pure dreaming. Good for you that you have an ST205 3sgte... but in my mind... you've still not yet shown your worth in terms of mechanical knowledge.

Here's some info for you. The AWD tranny is a transaxle design, meaning there is one specially designed AWD diff on a transversely designed tranny. This diff distributes power to both from wheels, and to a driveshaft. To make this ONLY distribute power to the driveshaft... you'll have to build a custom differential. If you know ANYTHING about transaxle differentials, they are very expensive to work on, let alone have a custom built one... because there isn't a real way to lock up that diff. It's harder than installing a getrag 6 speed... which requires some body/chassis work, but I personally think the getrag is overkill anyway.

Now... as for me being negative... if you care to notice, everyone with good mechanical ability and respect around this community has been reluctant say this is an easy "bolt on" job. You can call it negative... I'll call it realistic. The kind of realism that can only be gained from experience with cars. Like I said before... there is no easy way with these projects. Anything mentioned here, including my information, is merely speculation because this sort of project has NEVER been done. In other words, our opinions are pretty much worthless to a really serious person.

In all honesty now... if anyone were to complete a project like this, I'd least expect it to be done by a relatively new person. I know if I were to do anything like this, I'd just one day post pictures once everything is said and done.

[playr158]

word ok so steering can be relocated thats cool
what are your plans for the drive shaft since it has to be custom?
[right][snapback]258780[/snapback][/right]

I wont spend the extra cash to make a C/F driveshaft since they aren't worth it. I will probably just get a standard steel or aluminum cast. I got some buddies at a driveline shop in the next town that can do it.
[right][snapback]258980[/snapback][/right]

aite cool good connections you have i forget lol

as for tranny why don't you stick to the ALTEZZA tranny?
its RWD and can handle the power and will require less crap then the getrag>?

[darksecret]

I haven't told anyone about the power levels I am planning to run at. Im not going to do all this work for a mere 200 or 300 horsepower. Im wanting to push the limits of the 3S and work for 800hp and at least 700 lbs.ft.
I don't have a connection to anyone with a MKIV Supra but my uncle (the welder) has owned both the MKII and MKIII Supras and knows a little about them. He looked at a few pics of the Getrag went under the car and shown me how much room we had to work with. I opened up the center dash and noticed some wiring, the amp, and another box next to the firewall that would need to be moved, other than that there is nothing in the way. He said he could have the new plate welded in about an hour. The welding isn't bad just a tight space to work with, but we have all the tools and experirence to do it.

[playr158]

nice!

keep us updated

[AndyST4]

of course you would have something negative to say, I've never seen a positive post from you.  If you hate these topics some much why do you keep reading them.  I have a 3sgte from and st205 in my celica and everything did bolt up with no problems, as long as you have all the right parts it is easy.  I've done a lot of research on putting the st205 drivetrain in a us celica, I have been seriously considering converting mine to awd for quite a while.  Yhe only thing i wasn't sure about was how to convert an awd tranny to rear wheel drive, but I'm sure its a whole lot easier than engineering an entire drivetrain into a car it doesn't belong in
And if you don't think this would be the easiest way to build a rear wheel drive celica, what would?
[right][snapback]259757[/snapback][/right]

I keep reading them because I'm curious about experimental ideas... but there's a fine line between experimental ideas, and pure dreaming. Good for you that you have an ST205 3sgte... but in my mind... you've still not yet shown your worth in terms of mechanical knowledge.

Here's some info for you. The AWD tranny is a transaxle design, meaning there is one specially designed AWD diff on a transversely designed tranny. This diff distributes power to both from wheels, and to a driveshaft. To make this ONLY distribute power to the driveshaft... you'll have to build a custom differential. If you know ANYTHING about transaxle differentials, they are very expensive to work on, let alone have a custom built one... because there isn't a real way to lock up that diff. It's harder than installing a getrag 6 speed... which requires some body/chassis work, but I personally think the getrag is overkill anyway.

Now... as for me being negative... if you care to notice, everyone with good mechanical ability and respect around this community has been reluctant say this is an easy "bolt on" job. You can call it negative... I'll call it realistic. The kind of realism that can only be gained from experience with cars. Like I said before... there is no easy way with these projects. Anything mentioned here, including my information, is merely speculation because this sort of project has NEVER been done. In other words, our opinions are pretty much worthless to a really serious person.

In all honesty now... if anyone were to complete a project like this, I'd least expect it to be done by a relatively new person. I know if I were to do anything like this, I'd just one day post pictures once everything is said and done.
[right][snapback]259828[/snapback][/right]

Converting a awd transaxle to rwd isn't dreaming a lot of people have done it, it's not something i just came up with out of nowhere. I just like the idea of using all parts that where meant to be on the car, but I never said anything about this being a bolt on job. I'm very aware that there would be a lot of customization and problem solving. What I meant was that a lot of the main components would bolt on with out major modification. If I thought this was an easy bolt on job I would have done it a long time ago. Dreaming to me is the idea of building a tubular frame around the rear end and get c/f body panels molded to look like a celica. Reality is finding a jdm gt4, having it cut in half, bring the front on one boat and the back on another, and transfering the gt4 drivetrain to my car. And if dragging the transaxle to a shop that could convert it is expensive so be it. At least I would have a car which was almost completely engineered by toyota. In the long run I think it would be worth it, even I f it did cost a little more.

[darksecret]

Ok for everyone fighting about RWD vs. AWD I have a new thread in the General Discussion forum. I am doing RWD and nothing is going to change that. Plus why use the GT-Four transmission when by the time I build to the power level I want and get the thing set for RWD and all the parts I will need to make it work I will have spent enough to buy the Getrag with all the parts I need and still have more room for higher power. Yeah it's big but it's worth it. Besides if I can stuff the Getrag in the Celica I can say im great at stuffing big things in tight places and I don't have to slap XXX on the video when it's all over lol.

[sphinx]

All i have to say is that you better drift that f#$ker if you make it work...a drifting celica would be the hottest thing next to the olsen twins pre drug abuse days
[right][snapback]257787[/snapback][/right]

I just started reading this thread, and i'm still not done, but this is the funiest !@#$ i've heard in a while. That just made my day.

Thanks

This post has been edited by sphinx: Mar 21, 2005 - 7:26 PM