Turbo, Turboooo Options

[Celica_Kid95st]

Whats up guys. Ok my friend is selling a turbo for like $100. I have a '95 ST, and not alot of money, but this kid i no said that u can still put it on without an intercooler and pipes and **** for now at least but not to wait like years u no. I'm wondering if hes right and i can just buy the turbo and weld it on. Is that right? If so what other things would i have to get right now, but i want the littest that i can cause i dont have like any money, like if i dont need it now then skip it. Aight thanks for the help. peace. -john

[StreetRacing10PS...]

all u would need is the exhaust manifold, turbo, piping from turbo to intake manifold, piping for intake some vacume lines a fuel pressure regulator....think thats about it.$100 seems pretty cheap tho.

[OrbitalGT95]

Whats up guys. Ok my friend is selling a turbo for like $100. I have a '95 ST, and not alot of money, but this kid i no said that u can still put it on without an intercooler and pipes and **** for now at least but not to wait like years u no. I'm wondering if hes right and i can just buy the turbo and weld it on. Is that right? If so what other things would i have to get right now, but i want the littest that i can cause i dont have like any money, like if i dont need it now then skip it. Aight thanks for the help. peace. -john
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johnny my friend u have no idea what ur getting yourself into, lol

[97sccelica]

with the way a turbo fits in the celica engine bay, its easier and needs less piping to just install a FMIC from the get go.

get a $200 ebay intercooler, then a $150 greddy universal piping kit.

manifold is gonna be around $300 assembled, if i remember correctly

then you need oil lines

um, atleast an FMU and DEFINATELY A FUEL PUMP

and a down pipe

[Consynx]

does the turbo have a wastegate?

[ummmx2]

dont forget injectors and bov

[OrbitalGT95]

see what i mean john, lol...my wallet is afraid of turbo's

[nik]

i can give you a list of everything you need plus look at my how to it will show you step by step amostly how to turbo your st

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

You don't need a new fuel pump, or new injectors. All you need is the equipment to put it on there. So yes, it would be similar to just welding it on. I'd recommend definitely an intercooler. Exhaust manifold and down pipe are going to be necessary. You might get the down pipe custom. The exhaust manifold will be easy to find though. You'll need a waste gate for controlling boost levels too. If you end up running into problems, then add things like fuel pump and injectors. If you run low boost, you should be fine.

Hey guys, please stop trying to scare off new people from doing these things. The best way to learn is to just do it. Not to say that telling these guys how to do it is bad, but telling them that it's a nightmare and they have no idea what they're getting into is. Just tell them how it is, don't make assumptions about they're mechanical abilities.

EDIT: This post really isn't to bad about blowing things out of proportion. I must have been thinking of other posts in combination when I wrote this. Things blend together sometimes when I read.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Apr 15, 2005 - 10:39 AM

[thedevilmaycrie]

big- you do need a new fuel pump... just like running the celica gt fuel pump on the 3sgte it will work for a lil while but it will blow a piston up by running lean inthe high end...

-DMC

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I just had a buddy of mine who put a supercharger on a 3.8 chevy, and he keep it all the same. After I started writing this, I remembered the car was supercharged, and he just put the s/c on a new 3.8. He probably used the s/c fuel pump. My bad. But I don't see how running low boost would be any different from running a ram(forced) air intake. That's what I have, do I need a new fuel pump?

On a side note, I really wish they wouldn't call those short intakes "ram air intakes," it's extreemly misleading. And when someone has an actual ram air intake, they have to say forced air, but clarify that it's not a turbo or supercharger.

[ummmx2]

air intakes are MUCH different than forced induction. because of the fact that intakes dont actually force ne thing into the motor, rather it just helps it to breathe. btw, just "doing it" with minimum parts is a recipe for a blown motor. look at niks list and the 7afte bible. you will need to upgrade your fuel system at least or else you will run lean and damage something.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

air intakes are MUCH different than forced induction. because of the fact that intakes dont actually force ne thing into the motor, rather it just helps it to breathe. btw, just "doing it" with minimum parts is a recipe for a blown motor. look at niks list and the 7afte bible. you will need to upgrade your fuel system at least or else you will run lean and damage something.
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See? This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's hard for people to understand what I'm saying.

[thedevilmaycrie]

I just had a buddy of mine who put a supercharger on a 3.8 chevy, and he keep it all the same.  After I started writing this, I remembered the car was supercharged, and he just put the s/c on a new 3.8.  He probably used the s/c fuel pump.  My bad.  But I don't see how running low boost would be any different from running a ram(forced) air intake.  That's what I have, do I need a new fuel pump?

On a side note, I really wish they wouldn't call those short intakes "ram air intakes," it's extreemly misleading.  And when someone has an actual ram air intake, they have to say forced air, but clarify that it's not a turbo or supercharger.
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a "ram" intake still will not "force" air into the engine like a turbo will it pretty much puts the car from a vacuum state to a nuetral state... not give boost thoug... well MAYBE one or 2 psi...

-DMC

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

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a "ram" intake still will not "force" air into the engine like a turbo will it pretty much puts the car from a vacuum state to a nuetral state... not give boost thoug... well MAYBE one or 2 psi...

-DMC
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So even though I have a scoop in my front bumper that appears to force air in, it's not? What if it was a BIG scoop? I do get what you’re saying though. Without the turbo or s/c there, there's nothing to really force the air in, and it only makes it equal instead of forcing air in. That's pretty much what you said, I think. I've always been kind of worried about using it on the interstate, I thought it'd force to much air in and blow it up. My dad told me that you can't force to much air in, but my uncle said you could. My uncle is usually smarter when it comes to the mechanics of cars. The scoop I have now is the size of the 94-95 hole in the bumper on the side. There was kind of a scoop thing there in the first place, on the right looking at the car. But I sealed it and ran tubing from it to my throttle body. There's a filter in there sometimes . I always thought that around 30mph I would have the same boost as a lot of turbos. What's the verdict on my situation here?

EDIT: Sorry about the failed attempts are editing this thing right. And I really think this belongs in a new post, sorry about cluttering up your "turbo" post there buddy.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Apr 15, 2005 - 1:07 PM

[Doge]

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a "ram" intake still will not "force" air into the engine like a turbo will it pretty much puts the car from a vacuum state to a nuetral state... not give boost thoug... well MAYBE one or 2 psi...

-DMC
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So even though I have a scoop in my front bumper that appears to force air in, it's not? What if it was a BIG scoop? I do get what you’re saying though. Without the turbo or s/c there, there's nothing to really force the air in, and it only makes it equal instead of forcing air in. That's pretty much what you said, I think. I've always been kind of worried about using it on the interstate, I thought it'd force to much air in and blow it up. My dad told me that you can't force to much air in, but my uncle said you could. My uncle is usually smarter when it comes to the mechanics of cars. The scoop I have now is the size of the 94-95 hole in the bumper on the side. There was kind of a scoop thing there in the first place, on the right looking at the car. But I sealed it and ran tubing from it to my throttle body. There's a filter in there sometimes . I always thought that around 30mph I would have the same boost as a lot of turbos. What's the verdict on my situation here?

EDIT: Sorry about the failed attempts are editing this thing right. And I really think this belongs in a new post, sorry about cluttering up your "turbo" post there buddy.
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Snapback, there is absolutely no way that you are getting any sort of forced air into your engine. You have nowhere near equallity to a turbo... my guess is that you havn't really experience a car with a turbo in it. If you have forgive me... but if you havnt find someone with one and let them take you for a ride! All that scoop does is get cold air from outside instead of warm air from the engine bay. The only way you can get "too much air" is by using forced induction.

[thedevilmaycrie]

doge- the scoop may not equal or come close to a turbo but it will equalize the vac/boost...

big- even if the scoop was your front end it wouldnt eqaul boost... if you wanna see for yourself take a boost/vac gauge in your car ans see what it does and if it will even equal out the boost/vac...

-DMC

[nik]

i'll put it into simple terms your motor will only let so much air in no matter how big a scoop you have thats why turbo cars are called force induction your forcing air into the motor to make power.

any questions?

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

doge- the scoop may not equal or come close to a turbo but it will equalize the vac/boost...

big- even if the scoop was your front end it wouldnt eqaul boost... if you wanna see for yourself take a boost/vac gauge in your car ans see what it does and if it will even equal out the boost/vac...

-DMC
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I thought I might equal the boost of a small turbo or supercharger. You know, like 1-3 pounds of boost. I just might try that boost/vac gauge for the heck of it. The hole thing just doesn't sound completely clear and rgiht to me. I feel like there's more to this story somewere. I'm not saying in any way that I don't believe you. I just want to know exactly how much boost/vac I'm running with this thing.

[thedevilmaycrie]

big- by all means please try it and let us know the results...

-DMC

[CelicaST18]

I have a boost/vac guage in my celica, no turbo yet =( and there is zero vac anytime at full throttle....I'm going to modify my CAI to a "ram air" just to see if there is any boost, and at what speed it occurs......i will post results asap


EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised to see 1-1.5 psi at about 90 or so MPH

This post has been edited by CelicaST18: Apr 15, 2005 - 11:09 PM

[GT4WRC]

I thought I might equal the boost of a small turbo or supercharger.  You know, like 1-3 pounds of boost.  I just might try that boost/vac gauge for the heck of it.  The hole thing just doesn't sound completely clear and rgiht to me.  I feel like there's more to this story somewere.  I'm not saying in any way that I don't believe you.  I just want to know exactly how much boost/vac I'm running with this thing.
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Snowballs chance in hell comes to mind.
You will not create a postive pressure in the inlet manifold full stop. Even if you were able to create 2 - 3psi, then your engine management system will be totally confused as it is not designed to sense +ve pressure. As a result, you will run a lean mixture which will cause you to lose power and potentially cause internal damage.
When running full throttle, you will create a huge negative effect in the inlet manifold due to the 'sucking' effect of a nasp engine (Take your air filter pipe off with the motor running and stick your hand over the end of the inlet pipe and you'll see what I mean). To create +ve pressure, you will first need to overcome this -ve pressure and then, start creating a +ve one. It simply is not possible to do unless you run a turbo or supercharger. Even these electric superchargers they seel on eBay are a crock of sh1t. THEY DO NOT WORK.
If you can create a proven +ve pressure in your inlet manifold by simply using a ram type effect intake pipe on your Celica, I'll give you my GT-FOUR. Heck, I'll even pay for the shipping too

Car manufacturers spend billions eachy year on R+D. You'd think with that sort of budget they'd have latched onto this ram effect if it actually worked?
Gary

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I thought I might equal the boost of a small turbo or supercharger.  You know, like 1-3 pounds of boost.  I just might try that boost/vac gauge for the heck of it.  The hole thing just doesn't sound completely clear and rgiht to me.  I feel like there's more to this story somewere.  I'm not saying in any way that I don't believe you.  I just want to know exactly how much boost/vac I'm running with this thing.
[right][snapback]272043[/snapback][/right]

Snowballs chance in hell comes to mind.
You will not create a postive pressure in the inlet manifold full stop. Even if you were able to create 2 - 3psi, then your engine management system will be totally confused as it is not designed to sense +ve pressure. As a result, you will run a lean mixture which will cause you to lose power and potentially cause internal damage.
When running full throttle, you will create a huge negative effect in the inlet manifold due to the 'sucking' effect of a nasp engine (Take your air filter pipe off with the motor running and stick your hand over the end of the inlet pipe and you'll see what I mean). To create +ve pressure, you will first need to overcome this -ve pressure and then, start creating a +ve one. It simply is not possible to do unless you run a turbo or supercharger. Even these electric superchargers they seel on eBay are a crock of sh1t. THEY DO NOT WORK.
If you can create a proven +ve pressure in your inlet manifold by simply using a ram type effect intake pipe on your Celica, I'll give you my GT-FOUR. Heck, I'll even pay for the shipping too

Car manufacturers spend billions eachy year on R+D. You'd think with that sort of budget they'd have latched onto this ram effect if it actually worked?
Gary
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I'll take that bet. I know I will win too. I'm sick of people talking to me like I'm some kind of retard. I have a lot more experence than most of people who are trying to give me advice. Don't think I don't know how and engine works. I've modified my share of cars so far. This particular issue is one I have always been interested in. And as for your question on why car manufatures don't do this, they do. Haven't you ever heard of the Ram-Air Firebird? and I have also been under the hood of the newer Grand Prix's, and they have a similar system. Again, anyone who want's to test my car knowledge, your more than welcome, don't talk to me like I'm stupid.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Apr 16, 2005 - 1:00 AM

[Hanyo]

yes ram air does work.. here is an article about it. Ram air test

its a two page article so read through it all.

BUT! in defence to all the people arguing against ram air intakes. Ram air only takes affects at 80+ mph on a tinny motor cycle engine. Now with a car in the other hand, with a larger engine, the affects of ram air will not be as noticable untill you reached a higher speed. And all that extra intake plumbing would affect performance. So basically, ram air will not help performance in city use because of the extra weight and length of the plumbing. But once you get up and past highway speeds, you can start seeing some effects.

Now my rant on turbo's

what you need is the turbo manifold and turbo down pipe. you can connect the turbo to your stock exhuast but expect your turbo to never spool up. You dont need the intercooler, your safe to use a non-intercooled turbo uptil 6 psi. SO you would NEED a boost controler, once you past that 6 psi of non-intercooled turbo your engine will die. You NEED fuel management, so you need something that can control your fuel system. Your ok on the stock injectors until 6 psi, but the fuel pump is a MUST! The fuel pump of the celica cant handle the added demands for fuel. Other then that. you should be safe for a turbo. Even with all this stuff its a big risk to have a non-intercooled turbo.

[GT4WRC]

I think an F1 car will be able to go just a teeny weeny bit faster than your Celica Not to mention the highly qualified and paid engineers they employ to design these things....
Gary

[GT4WRC]

You dont need the intercooler, your safe to use a non-intercooled turbo uptil 6 psi.

Agreed. A few cars in the UK years ago were factory built without intercoolers and ran 6psi.
Gary

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

GT4WRC, when will you be shipping that? or do I actually have to spend a few bucks on a boost gauge to get my new GT-4?

If you had a big enough scoop, and it was seeled well enough, you could probably get them to work at lower speeds. I might end up putting a second scoop on the car and funalling them together to see if that will do anymore good. Well, I guess it'd be kind of pointless with my new GT4.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Apr 16, 2005 - 1:53 AM

[thedevilmaycrie]

stop agruing and show me some numbers... till there up no one is right or wrong...

ps my g/f gave me this pic so yell at her...(though it will do you no good )

-DMC

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

^^lol, yeah, good point. I just get mad at people talking to me like I'm stupid. I didn't really want it to be an argument. I was a lot happier with it as a discusion as I thought it started. I've seen that pic before, but it said "racing a honda is like running in the special olympics." I just get cared away. I'll see what I can do about getting ahold of a boost gauge and making sure I'm right.

[prpnum1]

I HAAAAD to bump this up. Where's the results form boost gauge man?? We can not let this topic die without some numers cuz this is completely mind blowing.

[playr158]

ok i ran a forced intake
it does make a difference i bet you i got maybe 1psi of pressure outta it
but more then likely it just neutralized the vaccum....

but you do notice a difference in mid rpm range (2-4k)
and if you run front to the throttle body totally sealed you do create a "pressure" go stick your hand out the window and tell me that isn't pressure cause thats the force of the air on the TB minus a lil bit lost in piping

but at 45+ mph you will notice it more cause the air gets colder and denser as you go faster
and as you go faster you create more "pressure" on your intake
creating more power

but yea maybe like 1-2psi tops

IMO never runa turbo without an intercooler

[bloodrain]

just remember the old saying, you get what you pay for....

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'm working on a boost gauge right now. I need to buy a good one for really cheap though. I seriously have no money at all. I'm a college student without a job (it's hard to do bothe when you have a lot of hours and you keep good grades). Give me a week or so to see if my mom gives me some cash. I feel bad spending money she gives me on car stuff. If it were my money, I'd spend it in a heart beat. But I feel like I can only spend money she gives me on gas/food. I will get back to you on this as soon as possable.

[Consynx]

im not reading all of these, i just want to add some science
a turbocharger does not really FORCE air into the enginer persay as much as it does create a FALSE environment.

the air inside the intake 1/2 is running a fake pressure, i forget the regular atmospheric pressure of air, but yea. The difference b/t the intake air and the environment is how psi is measure, or so i think.

[CelicaST18]

Regular atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.7 psi...turbo boost is the measure of pressure above that number...so if you are running 7 psi, then the turbo is really making 21.7 psi, but the boost guage reads the amount of boost above regular atmospheric pressure...