5SFE and 3SGTE flywheels, Are they the same? Options

[WannabeGT4]

Do they both bolt to the crank in the same way?

If I remember correctly the pressure plate is interchangeable for both but I don't know if they mount to the crank in the same way.

[lagos]

you need a 3sgte flywheel and 3s pressure plate

[WannabeGT4]

So are you saying that the 5S flywheel will not bolt up to the 3S crank?

[lagos]

no i dont think it will. the 3s flywheel is larger then the 5s one

[WannabeGT4]

Thanks Lagos.

Larger in what sense though? Diameter, thickness, bolt pattern?

[DG_Performance]

the flywheel will bolt up! the diameter surface area is a little different where the clutch sits and the 5s flywheel is deffintely heavier!
dg

[WannabeGT4]

Thanks, that's great news!

[DG_Performance]

why would you want to use the 5s wheel though?
it is heavier..... use the 3s one if you got it for less rotating mass.

[WannabeGT4]

I was hoping this wouldn't come up, but I'll actually be using the flexplate not the fly wheel. I just hope I'm not tormented for the rest of my life as a Celica owner.

[Kwanza26]

I was hoping this wouldn't come up, but I'll actually be using the flexplate not the fly wheel. I just hope I'm not tormented for the rest of my life as a Celica owner.
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The flexplate is for AUTO trannies only... so unless you're gonna be AUTO... you can't use it.

[WannabeGT4]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Jul 2, 2005 - 10:39 PM

[Kwanza26]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.
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Just so you know... if your idea is to run a 3SGTE with an auto tranny... you're gonna run into a brick wall unless you're clever with ECU's...

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.
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Is it true that the 3SGTE never came in auto?

[Kwanza26]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.
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Is it true that the 3SGTE never came in auto?
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They did... but not in Celicas. They came with tiptronic auto in the later model Caldina GT-4's...

[Dr_Tweak]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.
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Is it true that the 3SGTE never came in auto?
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They did... but not in Celicas. They came with tiptronic auto in the later model Caldina GT-4's...
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What I should have asked is did they ever come in a FWD (or MR) auto tranny. There weren't any automatic MR2 Turbos either?

-Doc

[Kwanza26]

What I should have asked is did they ever come in a FWD (or MR) auto tranny. There weren't any automatic MR2 Turbos either?

-Doc
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Nope... none that I know of at least. I think the only time the 3SGTE was mounted in an FF (or MR) configuration was in the MR2... and the turbo version were all 5 speed...

[WannabeGT4]

Yeah. I know what a flexplate is. That's why I was hoping it wouldn't come up.
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Just so you know... if your idea is to run a 3SGTE with an auto tranny... you're gonna run into a brick wall unless you're clever with ECU's...
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That's why I made this thread as well:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26491

I hope to be able to use the stock 5SFE ECU to control the auto tranny while the megasquirt controls the rest. I figure if I can feed the 5SFE ECU just enough information to get it to shift correctly I won't have to be that "clever".

[lagos]

i guess some people just like to learn the hard way why an automatic 3s swap is not a good idea.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 3, 2005 - 12:53 PM

[WannabeGT4]

i guess some people just like to learn the hard way why an automatic 3s swap is not a good idea.
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I didn't ask for your opinion. It's never been done. I'd like to do it. If I don't like it or if it breaks I've got almost all the manual parts to do the swap.

[lagos]

it has been done. somone did it in a 5th gen swap. the car ran mid 15s and the auto tranny started to slip because it couldnt hold the power.

[WannabeGT4]

it has been done. somone did it in a 5th gen swap. the car ran mid 15s and the auto tranny started to slip because it couldnt hold the power.
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Sorry I wasn't more clear, I was refering to 6th gens. I still want to do it.

[K-ESD]

just curious... why go automatic?

[presure2]

Sorry I wasn't more clear, I was refering to 6th gens. I still want to do it.

5th or 6th, aint gonna make a diffrence, same tranny.
good luck

[WannabeGT4]

just curious... why go automatic?
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Cause I'm lazy LOL. Honestly, I'll be driving this car everyday and most of the time It'll be city driving. I don't plan on racing I just wanted a little more power and since the 5S isn't too healthy I can't just turbo it. I'll just put in the 3S I have sitting in my garage. Plus it'll be unique to the 6th gens and rare for anything 3S powered.

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

bring the caR* to a good tranny place.. they can probbl hook u up and tune it for u

This post has been edited by SoundSlut_dotcom: Jul 6, 2005 - 3:47 PM

[WannabeGT4]

bring the caR* to  a good tranny place.. they can probbl hook u up and tune it for u
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What's the point of having a project car then?

I don't know how much they can "tune" a transmission, or what exactly they'd hook me up with. I like to know what is in my car and how exactly it's working and there is no better way than doing all of the work yourself.

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

bring the caR* to  a good tranny place.. they can probbl hook u up and tune it for u
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What's the point of having a project car then?

I don't know how much they can "tune" a transmission, or what exactly they'd hook me up with. I like to know what is in my car and how exactly it's working and there is no better way than doing all of the work yourself.
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yea work the gears urself to when they should shift and when they shouldnt , instead of getting it done by a professional transmission expert lmao

[Kwanza26]

Look here... if you're not looking for performance... there really is NO point in bothering to set-up some crazy AUTO 3SGTE. Also... if you know how to drive a manual... city driving won't even be worth mentioning. There's nothing wrong with not being able to drive a manual. Just say so... and then say you don't want to learn, and then say but you still want a 3SGTE for the whatever peppie reason. Also... you can't really "tune" automatic trannies. That's some of the funniest stuff I've heard. It's not a matter of when or where the tranny shifts, which can be changed, it's a matter of gearing... and that is custom $$$...

If you're worried about city driving and such... an engine swap really isn't for you.

[WannabeGT4]

Look here... if you're not looking for performance... there really is NO point in bothering to set-up some crazy AUTO 3SGTE.  Also... if you know how to drive a manual... city driving won't even be worth mentioning.  There's nothing wrong with not being able to drive a manual.  Just say so... and then say you don't want to learn, and then say but you still want a 3SGTE for the whatever peppie reason.  Also... you can't really "tune" automatic trannies.  That's some of the funniest stuff I've heard.  It's not a matter of when or where the tranny shifts, which can be changed, it's a matter of gearing... and that is custom $$$...

If you're worried about city driving and such... an engine swap really isn't for you.
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I never said I wasn't looking for performance, just that I wasn't planning on racing. I know how to drive a stick just fine but if you really want to know why I want an automatic it's because of my balls. That's right testicles. It's just uncomfortable to try and shift when your balls are constantly being smashed by your thighs.
I don't plan on "tuning" the transmission. All I plan on doing is sending the signals that the 5SFE ECU needs to determine when to shift.

An engine swap is for me since the 5S is dieing and I have a 3S in my garage.

This is exactly what I thought was going to happen. It turned from a simple question into a huge debate. I really don't need anymore opinions about the usefulness of an auto 3SGTE. I have my opinions and everyone else has theirs. That's fine. I do appreciate the input but not the critisism.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Aug 6, 2005 - 8:50 PM

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

Also... you can't really "tune" automatic trannies. That's some of the funniest stuff I've heard. It's not a matter of when or where the tranny shifts, which can be changed, it's a matter of gearing... and that is custom $$$...

u just made no sense.

[Kwanza26]

Also... you can't really "tune" automatic trannies.  That's some of the funniest stuff I've heard.  It's not a matter of when or where the tranny shifts, which can be changed, it's a matter of gearing... and that is custom $$$...

u just made no sense.
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Explain how *You* plan on "tuning" an automatic tranny. As far as I'm concerned... just some dumb reasoning for people who are too afraid to learn how to drive a manual. Might not make sense to you... cause you're the idiot who brought it up... but it makes sense to the people who know how the sh!t works...

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

#1 dont talk to me like an asshole, esp. since i didnt to u.. jerkoff..
#2 u said it your self u can change when gears shift and geear ratio..

so shut your ****ing mouth faggit

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

b itch

[Kwanza26]

Some children... Can't come up with anything so you resort to name calling... luckily it doesn't even matter to me. Maybe if you knew anything about cars... you wouldn't be ignorant enough to to even try and measure a comeback.

FYI... my refrence to gearing ONLY applies to custom gearsets. If you knew anything... a custom gear set is gonna cost more than your fancy candy paint job and lambo doors... in fact... will probably cost more than most of our car's worth... especially since you're reffering to AUTO trannies. Just ain't gonna happen buddy... unless you're gonna throw down some serious cash for a custom tranny.

As for me... to counter your infinite knowledge on bodykits and soundsystems... I'm gonna go "tune" my paintjob and contemplate building a custom sub box around my tailights...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Jul 7, 2005 - 10:40 PM

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

lol talking about name calling, ur the one that opened your mouth pal. just leave it as u cant do nothing at all to an automatic thats all..

infinite knowledge.

[WannabeGT4]

lol talking about name calling, ur the one that opened your mouth pal. just leave it as u cant do nothing at all to an automatic thats all..

infinite knowledge.
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Umm... you just made no sense with your double negative.
"You can't do nothing" actually means "you can do something"

What name did Kwanza call you?

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

He started with his "idiot" remarks , but its ok just drop it. basically all im trying to say is if ur going with a monster engine. and ur using a old trans just make sure the **** is in good shape, i mean u are going auto right? yea.

[K-ESD]

If you want to go auto and you can make it work, i say do it. Who cares what some negative people has to say. It's ur car, ur project and if you can pull it off you will be the first to have a auto 3SGTE.

come on people, stop insulting each other. This guy needs our help not our oppinions.

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Jul 9, 2005 - 8:51 AM

[Punch]

why do the swap 2 times ???
hey if you got skills like that make it happen....

[celicast3sgte]

im embarrased to read this topic........

good luck with the swap man i wanna see pictures when u get it street worthy.

[WannabeGT4]

If you want to go auto and you can make it work, i say do it. Who cares what some negative people has to say. It's ur car, ur project and if you can pull it off you will be the first to have a auto 3SGTE.

come on people, stop insulting each other. This guy needs our help not our oppinions.
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Thanks.

why do the swap 2 times ???
hey if you got skills like that make it happen....
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I'd only be swapping the motor once then a trans. if I have to. Not nearly the same amount of work.

im embarrased to read this topic........

good luck with the swap man i wanna see pictures when u get it street worthy. 
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I don't know what's so embarrassing but thanks for wishing me luck. I'll definately have pictures when I'm done.

[Punch]

how long will it take you???
pics ASAP!!!

[celicast3sgte]

the embarrasing part is reading what all these members had to say. Id like to think we support eachother especially when it comes to something different and the guy said he knows it might not last but he wants to try it. so let him. anyways i like the idea on paper lets see it completed!

[WannabeGT4]

how long will it take you???
pics ASAP!!!
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Trust me, there will be plenty of pics and vids when it's done. Right now the only thing holding me back is cash flow. I hope to get started in a month or two. Wives are expensive. I should have done this before getting married. LOL! I love her though.

the embarrasing part is reading what all these members had to say. Id like to think we support eachother especially when it comes to something different and the guy said he knows it might not last but he wants to try it. so let him. anyways i like the idea on paper lets see it completed!
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Thanks. I feel the same way.

[Punch]

I have a girl friend of 4yrs Iknow what you meen. (expensive)

[WannabeGT4]

the flywheel will bolt up! the diameter surface area is a little different where the clutch sits and the 5s flywheel is deffintely heavier!
dg

Just found out tonight that neither the flexplate nor the 5SFE flywheel bolt onto the 3SGTE crank. Either one will need machined to fit the larger bolts and slightly different bolt pattern of the 3SGTE.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Jun 17, 2007 - 9:53 AM

[celicast3sgte]

serious? i have a 5sfe flywheel (pretty damn sure) and its bolted up to my 3s just fine.

[coldbluesteel]

I don't know what the problem is...
I mean I prefer stick in a car, but I like auto in my 4runner and it is hooked up with some power.
Plus auto's arne't so bad I mean they can't hold the power someone said? How's that? The twin turbo Supra comes in auto. And alot of high power muscle cars prefer auto for better rpm control.

[celicast3sgte]

your comparing a factory twin turboed car (trans is built for it) to a stock economy built car. you just cant do that. yes the CONCEPT of an auto holding power works. but the two transmissions are WAY different.

NOW, don't take this as me arguing wannabegt4 shouldnt do it, im just pointing out that coldblue is comparing two different trannies.

This post has been edited by celicast3sgte: Oct 12, 2006 - 12:01 AM

[Dr_Tweak]

the flywheel will bolt up! the diameter surface area is a little different where the clutch sits and the 5s flywheel is deffintely heavier!
dg

Liar.

Just found out tonight that neither the flexplate nor the 5SFE flywheel bolt onto the 3SGTE crank. Either one will need machined to fit the larger bolts and slightly different bolt pattern of the 3SGTE.

???

I've used 5S flywheels on the 3SGTE, and they most certainly do bolt up. In fact, the 4th gen that I just finshed is using a 5S flywheel and clutch setup.

-Doc

[WannabeGT4]

No such luck for me. The 5S Flywheel bolt holes where large enough, it's just that the pattern was off by about 1mm and the bolts wouldn't go into the crank straight. The flexplate bolt holes are definately too small and so they're off by about 2mm. I'll make a diagram when I get home tonight to show exactly what I'm talking about.

[celicast3sgte]

detailed pics please?

I have a 5s flywheel and CF clutch on my 3s. it fits.....

[Defgeph]

Justin, are you 100% sure you have a 5sfe flywheel ?

[WannabeGT4]

It could be a different flywheel now that you mention it... The person I bought all this stuff from wasn't exactly trustworthy. Using the little bit of play between the crank and the center of the flywheel I did manage to get one bolt in but there was absolutely no way to get any of the other bolts through since it was now slightly off center.

One thing I am 100% certain about is that the flexplate will NOT bolt up without having the holes machined about 1 or 2mm larger and further from the center of the plate, which would suggest that there is a 2-4mm difference between the two crank bolt patterns. I need to get a good digital caliper gauge so I can take some reliable measurements. I'll update everyone when I get a chance to measure everything and take some pictures.

[Dr_Tweak]

It sounds to me like you've got a 4AGE flywheel on your hands

Having to drill the flexplate holes out a little don't suprise me though, the bolts that hold it on are also different. Are you using flexplate bolts or flywheel bolts?

-Doc

[WannabeGT4]

It sounds to me like you've got a 4AGE flywheel on your hands

Having to drill the flexplate holes out a little don't suprise me though, the bolts that hold it on are also different. Are you using flexplate bolts or flywheel bolts?

-Doc

I wouldn't be surprised, This whole bunch of stuff was quite a mess when I got it. 90-91 harness, RC ECU, 92-93 engine that may have been an RC. No AFM, MAP, Coil or Ignitor. I'm pretty sure everything is sorted out now but it was quite a task locating the RC AFM.

I haven't been able to mount the flexplate yet so I'm not sure what bolts I'll use. If the flywheel bolts aren't too long and clear the torque converter I'm going to use them otherwise I'll be making another trip to the Toyota dealer / hardware store since the 5SFE bolts are quite a bit smaller.

[WannabeGT4]

Got the digital caliper today at Harbor freight for $13... Normally $39.99 on sale for 15.99 plus 20% off since my brothers girlfriend works there. Seems like a pretty nice unit from what I can tell.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=47257

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Oct 13, 2006 - 4:08 PM

[celicast3sgte]

itll work for what your doing with it.

[6th_celi_vert]

<--Still laughing over the fact he's doing a auto conversion because of his balls. My side is hurting.



Anywayz, good luck with it man, some people need to be less of a dick, and more of a help. PICS PICS PICS

[WannabeGT4]

LOL, I forgot I said that. Still makes me laugh too.

Got the measurements this evening and I'm back home puting them into AutoCAD. The flywheel I have is a perfect fit for the 5SFE by the way. The bolt patern of the 3SGTE is off by 4mm in comparison to the 5SFE. I'll have AutoCAD drawings in a little bit to show exactly what the difference is.

Does anyone know if the 1st through 3rd generation 3SGEs have the same bolt patterns and if the flywheels are the same as the 3SGTE? I'd check the part numbers but my EPC decided to stop working. If not it's cool, I'll just take my handy dandy digital caliper to the parts store tomorrow evening.

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Oct 13, 2006 - 11:55 PM

[WannabeGT4]

I've been busy lately but this is what I'm going to give to the person that does the machine work.
Measurements in white are what I got from the 5S flexplate. Measurements in red are what the flexplate needs to be in order to bolt up to the 3SGTE. I started to put the measurements in from what I assumed to be a 5S flywhwheel but that made things really messy looking. I'll make a seperate drawing for that.

[celicast3sgte]

very good progress so far man! im interested in how this turns out. your going to get vids of it running right?

[WannabeGT4]

Absolutely.

[2slow2nervous]

so questions if im using the 5sfe tranny for the 3sgte swap i use th 3sgte flyweel and plates and 5sfe disc correct?

[WannabeGT4]

Yeah, you'll need the 3S flywheel and pressure plate and either a 5S disk or a custom 3S disk with splines to match the S54 transmission.

I forgot to upload the 5SFE Flywheel measurements but here they are now. If someone can measure theirs to compare that'd be great.


This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Oct 19, 2006 - 7:21 AM

[spunky393]

im embarrased to read this topic........

Couldn't have said it better myself, that's why i'm a ghost on this forum anymore

[_mikeE]

okay quick question, because i've been considering doing the st205 motor swap..and i've been acknowledged that in order to use the 5s tranny with the 3s motor, you need the 3s pressure plate and flywheel....well i've got an aftermarket clutch kit (disc, pressure plate), do i still have to switch to the 3s pressure plate?

just realized that the last post was a freakin year ago--oh jeebus.