my 5sfte 200+whp dyno runs, 203whp 246ftlbs! Options

[presure2]

ok guys, went back to the dyno with the 460cc injectors, and did some runs to see what was up....first couple runs were about the same as before, about 195 or so whp and a little over 210ftlbs...but now it was NICE AND RICH, which i was VERY happy about.
so, i removed a little fuel up top (between 4600-6k) and upped the boost a little bit, to 12lbs.
she responded by giving me these runs.



after looking at the runs some, you can really see how the power drops off right @ 4450rpm.
i think this MAY be one of two things.
the SAFCII screwing with my timing, and the ECU making it pull timing to fight back,
or just plain ole detonation.
now, i havent noticed anything strange as far as readings on the SAFCII, and i havent actually "heard" anything strange, yet. then again, they do say by the time you hear it, its usually to late..lol
so, im planning on going back, and trying a few things to see what i can do about the power dropoff.
even with it, the car pulls HARD, and by the looks of the egts things are actually safer with the bigger injectors.
i really think that if i can figure out the issue i have there above 4400rpm, i should be making about 225whp to go with the 240+ftlbs...
any thoughts???
lets hear em!

This post has been edited by presure2: Sep 20, 2005 - 8:44 AM

[nik]

looking good do you have any way to detect detenation

This post has been edited by nik: Sep 20, 2005 - 9:25 AM

[Jdog1385]

i read a similar problem in TPR magazine with the drop-off in power.

possible problems;

- im pretty sure that an increase in boost may cause less horsepower, indicating that the knock sensor is causing The ECU to retard the engine timing.

- Boost controller might be causing the drop-off.

i really gotta see your car man. good luck with it.

This post has been edited by Jdog1385: Sep 20, 2005 - 9:50 AM

[jgreening]

Good job Manny. That dyno graph looks like classic knock response to me. You need to either find a way to control timing, use race gas, or turn down the boost.

[nik]

Good job Manny.  That dyno graph looks like classic knock response to me.  You need to either find a way to control timing, use race gas, or turn down the boost.
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i vote try and fix the timing and keep it a 200whp+ on pump gas if you can if not have the 200whp as your high boost setting

[lagos]

yeah, it could be just do to the fact that its a high compression motor running running a whole lot more power then pump gas can handle at this point. throw some nice race gas in there!

[Jdog1385]

im pretty sure sunoco race fuel is up to 7 dollars a gallon.

[presure2]

yea, im thinking about throwing in some 109octane (its 7$ a gal.) next time @ the dyno if i cant clean that up at all by playing with things, and seeing if that cleans it up.
i figure ill head over to the dyno with about 1/4 tank, and if i have to, add like 4 gallons of the 109oct. for about a 50/50 mix...hehe
first thing i think im gonna do is add in the fuel that i took out at the dyno, and see what kinda diffrence it makes, the runs before i started taking fuel out look a little smoother, albeit a little bit down on power compared to these two runs, but then again, i hadent upped the boost yet.
as far as knock detection, the only thing im using is the knock display on the SAFCII, i installed it before i turboed so that i could get an idea of the readings pre-turbo, and to be honest, i really havent noticed much of a diffrence at all in the knock readings.
keep the ideas coming guys, i wanna hear em all!

[lagos]

you might want to post this on celiatech so that nuke can write a 500 page book about it ...lol

[presure2]

you might want to post this on celiatech so that nuke can write a 500 page book about it ...lol
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hahah yet, i just posted it there too, we'll see what he has to say..lol

[lagos]

did you dyno the 10psi of boost you were at the 1st time you dynoed to see how what type of change the injectors made?

[presure2]

did you dyno the 10psi of boost you were at the 1st time you dynoed to see how what type of change the injectors made?
[right][snapback]336561[/snapback][/right]

yea, it was about the same, maybe a touch more torque, but MUCH richer

[lagos]

was it pulling timing like it did in the 12psi runs? what run file is it under

[presure2]

the first run i did is missing a spot from the graph, but it looks like it is, just not as bad as the later runs.

[ice23q]

What injectors are you using........??

[lagos]

check his profile... hes got it all in there
460cc RX-7 injectors Pt. #195500-2010,

[presure2]

check his profile... hes got it all in there
460cc RX-7 injectors Pt. #195500-2010,
[right][snapback]336577[/snapback][/right]

thanks art

[StreetRacing10PS...]

my 7afte pulled a 93HP on the dyno still dnt no whats wrong wit it

[97sccelica]

my 7afte pulled a 93HP on the dyno still dnt no whats wrong wit it
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what was the AFR like?

presure2

it looks like you increased the cylinder pressures too much for pump gas, whats the timing retard set to on your BTM?

[Digndoug]

Did you take it to the track yet? what kinda numbers do you think it would pull?

[Jdog1385]

wheres kwanza for this one

[presure2]

it looks like you increased the cylinder pressures too much for pump gas, whats the timing retard set to on your BTM?

ive tried messing with it a bit over the past couple days, had as much as 5 degrees total retard with no change.

havent been on a track yet, no real plans to. that wasnt the point of doing it.

[Defgeph]

Manny I give you all praise for the work you have done to that car.
Its just awesome, such a fun ride . I hope you get those numbers ur looking for.

Jeff

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Agreed. I was impressed the first time I rode in it @ Philly, I hope I see you at the Delaware Water Gap meet or something Manny so I can check it out in its most recent tune. Congratulations!

[eazy2001x]

which gen head are you using and what cams ?

This post has been edited by eazy2001x: Dec 21, 2005 - 8:48 AM

[presure2]

easy, the motor is totally stock, no aftermarket parts are in it.

[recneps]

si there a chance your blowing out your sparks at 12 psi, maybe regap them or something.

or maybe your maxing out your MAF.

i would try posting on mr2oc those guys know what theyre doing.

your tunning with just a safc?

[shin]

there's no MAF sensor for the 5sfte, manny have went all the way up to 15psi on his set up and it didn't blow anything except breaking a stut lol. i'm pretty sure he knows wat he's doing cause he's the 5sfte pro member

[recneps]

there's no MAF sensor for the 5sfte, manny have went all the way up to 15psi on his set up and it didn't blow anything except breaking a stut lol. i'm pretty sure he knows wat he's doing cause he's the 5sfte pro member

sorry im thinking 7th gen,

well whats the max the AFM on the celica will read? you might want to look at a larger one maybe from a 3s and a EM to run it.

as far as blowing out the sparks, do you know what i mean when i say that? the spark on the spark plug actuatly gets blown out. the same way you can blow a match out with a leaf blower.

manny what gap are you running on your plugs?

how hot are your plugs?

and lastly what rpm are you making full boost at?

[lagos]

recneps... you should read the how to he wrote up for this project. all that info is in there.

the 5sfe uses a map sensor. when you add a turbo, you have to upgrade to the 3sgte 2.5bar map sensor.

for plugs, people end up getting one step colder ngk plugs.

you also have to upgrade the injectors to at least 440s

[recneps]

recneps... you should read the how to he wrote up for this project. all that info is in there.

the 5sfe uses a map sensor. when you add a turbo, you have to upgrade to the 3sgte 2.5bar map sensor.

for plugs, people end up getting one step colder ngk plugs.

you also have to upgrade the injectors to at least 440s

im sure ive read that before, must have forgot.

everything i knew about the s seris motors must have disapeered, soon as i got a zz.

anyways there we go. disregard my last comments, just trying to help trouble shoot a problem.

anyways manny what do those number look like sae corrected?

[lagos]

you had the right idea....just thinking of the wrong motor

[presure2]

just as an update, the dropoff i saw seeing was mostly casused by the BTM.
as i turned it down, the car responded better and better.
im now running without the BTM at all, and the car loves it.
i wouldnt reccomend it to everyone, cause i cant say for sure its the safest thing in the world, but im not really worried about it..lol
i havent been back to the dyno, wanna see if i can possibly get on there one last time in the spring before the 3s goes in, and see what shes got..
as far as the track, jenn ran it down the 1/4 a few times this fall, her best so far is a 14.07

anyways manny what do those number look like sae corrected?

here ya go:


This post has been edited by presure2: Dec 22, 2005 - 10:39 AM

[macavely]

nice numbers manny ... i'm happy to see you finally got to your goal ... you know when you do the swap i want to be there.. i might have a little suprise for you ..

[OOBE]

Great numbers. That's weird, though, that at only 12 PSI you are possibly detonating. I run 12 -15 PSI on my Celica with Mazda MX-6 turbo injectors on Shell 93 in the hot ass Puerto Rico weather and I have never detonated...I am trying to make the engine break so I can know the limit of it before beefing it up but it has held all the abuse. =/

[jgreening]

Wow Manny. That graph is so close to my 3sgte graph (before the turbo upgrade) at 14psi its scary. Perhaps you don't even need the 3s! Here is my plot:

[macavely]

dann after seeing that graph from J ... . manny don't swap stay with the 5s... just rebuild and crank up the bost for track days ... `

[presure2]

Wow Manny. That graph is so close to my 3sgte graph (before the turbo upgrade) at 14psi its scary. Perhaps you don't even need the 3s!

haha jay...naa..the 5SFTE is fun, dont get me wrong,
but with the setup that im running, im really pushing it..lol
boost control has been a problem since day one with the '27 and 3" turbo back.
it pretty much just rises right till redline, and on a normal day will peak at around 12 or so lbs.
i think the fact that i have the super fresh '98 motor to start with the metal headgasket ect has really helped me a ton, i totally believe that if it wasnt in as good of condition to start with, it'd be dead. lol
the 5sfTe can be a great learning tool, and it has been...but its not what i wanna do with it.
the 3sgte will allow me to reach my goal for the car MUCH more reliably, without question.
with the '27, and a few simple bolt ons, i can easily surpass 250whp, which IMO is more than enough for my needs.
besides, with the wifes heavy right foot, and her 40mi commute round trip everyday we need to keep the car helthy and reliable, somthing much easier with the 3sgte VS 5sfte..
knock on wood, i havent had any MAJOR problems with the 5s yet, but thats just it, its all about that magic little word : YET.. haha
its not a matter of IF, its a matter of WHEN. IMO thats the rule for 5sfTe projects, and when bryan "noshoes" moore tells you that very same thing, you better listen..hehe and i have.
that said..
IM COMING TO THE DARK SIDE JAY!! hehehehe

ohhh..and lets not miss the fact that in your graph, your over 200ftlbs till like 5600, and 200whp well past 6k hehe

This post has been edited by presure2: Dec 25, 2005 - 9:46 AM

[jgreening]

all good points.

[lagos]

jay, do u have a copy of your chart with the a/f ratio on it ?


ahh the dark side... the best place to be!

[jgreening]

jay, do u have a copy of your chart with the a/f ratio on it ?

No, I wish I did. The tail pipe sniffer didn't work properly on that run.