Miss shifting, kinda, Whats rong with me Options

[creis]

I've had my car for going on 2 years and yet I cant stop doing this, almost every time I hop on the freeway I accelarate at a rather fast pase 3rd, 4th, 5th and once I get to about 3k in 5th (60-65mph) I pull it out of 5th and try and drop it into 6th I catch myself before I slam into reverse spin out and flip off the road but still why. it makes no sence to me that I always go for a 6th gear when I know I dont have one. Is it me or does the 5sfe tranny gear ratio feel like it should have a 6th gear?

anyone else have a problem with this, and does anyone know of a swapable tranny that has a 6th gear, I know the salara trany bults up, but I thnk its just another 5spd.

[soulshadow]

All I can say is that your an idiot..lol..im one too.
Anyways, shifting into R will not happen cause the tranny stops you unless you really jam it into R and no 5 speed is good enough cause the 5S is a weak engine.

[creis]

yeah I know you cant just slide it into rev, i mean I stop before I try, and yeah the 5s is weak but a 6th gear would make a little diff in acc. obvilusly not gana guain hp with it.

[Jaws4God]

I get the same feeling cuz in 5th at 65mph its like the engine is at 4k RPM and it feels like i should shift again... I think i'm gonna do an MR2 transmission someday and hopefully it will have taller gears..

[Kwanza26]

I think i'm gonna do an MR2 transmission someday and hopefully it will have taller gears..

MR2 tranny = Celica Tranny

Camry Tranny = Taller gears

[Jaws4God]

I think i'm gonna do an MR2 transmission someday and hopefully it will have taller gears..

MR2 tranny = Celica Tranny

Camry Tranny = Taller gears

ohh ok... I just keep hearing that the MR2 Tranny won't have so much drivetrane loss.. How well do camry tranny's fit?

[Kwanza26]

ohh ok... I just keep hearing that the MR2 Tranny won't have so much drivetrane loss.. How well do camry tranny's fit?

MR2 has the exact same tranny as the GT with exception to the shift linkages and other MR related workings. The Camry has the same tranny, with different gearing and a longer final drive... It's more or less a direct swap...

[lagos]

umm or you could just learn to drive a 5 speed....lol

taller gears would mean you would stay lower in the rpm range. when that happens, you would have less power.

the tranny is geared perfectly for the 5sfe motor. it dosnt hurt anything if you are at 4-5k on the highway.

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 15, 2005 - 1:45 PM

[playr158]

thats not necissarily true about less power....cause it depends where in the RPM range it drops you....

[Kwanza26]

thats not necissarily true about less power....cause it depends where in the RPM range it drops you....

Unless you're turbo charged or supercharged with a sh!t load of torque(at LEAST 200+ ft lbs at the wheels)... taller gearing NEVER helps 4 bangers.

[lagos]

thats not necissarily true about less power....cause it depends where in the RPM range it drops you....

Unless you're turbo charged or supercharged with a sh!t load of torque(at LEAST 200+ ft lbs at the wheels)... taller gearing NEVER helps 4 bangers.

yep ...they make them short for a reason .

think of it this way... with taller gearing, your 2nd gear now feels like 3rd gear.... ouch

[playr158]

well if you get nitty gritty you could change 1 gear....or so
just depends...like i said
for the jettas we have a 5th gear conversion which actually helps us and puts us in a much better part of the power band and gains power...
(then again thats a different car and tranny but an example nun the less)

and honestly what power are you looking to gain in 5th gear anyways on a celica? cause there isn't any there to start haha
i'd like a 5th gear conversion on my celica just to drop the rpms about a grand and save some gas

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I know the 5SFE tranny uses a .820 5th gear ratio, and the final drive is also rather high as well. I would love a 6th gear, this has often been a huge thing for me since im always doing highway driving and our cars dont cruise easily at around 80-85 MPH without being at pretty high revs and possibly wasting more gas....although you can also argue that engines are actually more efficient at higher RPM's, but thats whole different discussion.

Would it be feasable to get a company to make a longer 5th and maybe 4th gear for us? I'm sure theres a company that could do this.....even better, make a full cryo-treated gear set with a slightly longer 4th and 5th gear that will stand up easily to the abuse of swapped and turbo applications. Maybe this is too ambitious, but think of all the Celicas and MR2's using the S54 that would benefit from this.

[lagos]

you would just end up spending thousands of dollars on tranny upgrades just to save a few bucks in gas. the celica GT/STs are already great with fuel economy

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Alright, some of you have probably heard of this place, but I just remembered of a place i heard about called Level 10 Performance Transmission Systems (www.levelten.com). But at any rate, they seem to do just such work specializing in Imports...and turns out its only a 20 minute drive from my house...lol.

Art, youre probably right about spending alot of money on an already well designed transmission for stock Celicas, however getting a good condition E153 tranny from a 10+ year old MR2 is getting tougher and tougher for higher horsepower applications like a motor swap. Level 10 does group buys, and it would be great to see if they could give a respectable deal on a cryotreated or "bulletproof" gear set for our S54's, and maybe a longer 5th gear for those who want a better cruising gear for their stock Celicas. Maybe over my christmas break I'll stop by their shop and see what they think.

Anybody else interested??

This post has been edited by Silver94CelicaOwner: Dec 15, 2005 - 7:32 PM

[RocketScott]

i'd like a 5th gear conversion on my celica just to drop the rpms about a grand and save some gas

Maximum fuel efficiency occurs at peak horsepower.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'd like to lower my gear ratio for better acceleration. I'd like it so the car maxed at about 100-105. You never need to go faster than that, even on the track. I drive interstate sometimes, so I think the best thing would be a 5 speed to 100mph, and then a sixth gear on top of that for interstate drive. Or, just stay off the interestate.

[playr158]

wow ummm i'm not goin to even respond to the kind of idiocracy of that last post....

but actually a gear conversion once made...isn't thousands of dollars art...and can be done for a reasonable price...

but corey i think you should check it out its a good idea and get a decent ball park instead of tossing out a random "thousands"

[RocketScott]

wow ummm i'm not goin to even respond to the kind of idiocracy of that last post....

but actually a gear conversion once made...isn't thousands of dollars art...and can be done for a reasonable price...

but corey i think you should check it out its a good idea and get a decent ball park instead of tossing out a random "thousands"

Wow, you have no clue about condition specific gearing. Happens all the time on race tracks, especially with motorcycles and engines that have "cassette" style gear boxes to facilitate such swaps easily at trackside. The basic idea is to keep the revs at peak horsepower for as much as the time as possible for a given course. Remember when cars were geared to make peak horsepower and thus get maximum fuel efficiency at 55mph? Of course speed limits have gone up since then so now we have a bunch of cars cruising around at the speed limit while on the downhill side of the horsepower curve. What Bigmeanbulldog55 is suggesting is a little out of the ordinary but not total idiocracy. It's mostly out of the ordinary because street drivers aren't going to invest the time and money into developing something like this. Street driving has far more variables than a fixed course that can be planned for. The acceleration would be better but it could possibly loose drivability. No real good way to tell without actually doing it.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

wow ummm i'm not goin to even respond to the kind of idiocracy of that last post....

Please do explain. What is wrong with wanting the car geared as low as possible? Smaller gears mean quicker changes and faster acceleration. Instead of shifting and dropping down to 3.5k, I'd stay at 4.3 or something around there. It's just like having a six speed transmission without the 6th gear. There's nothing wrong with that unless your wanting to drive at a constant high speed a good bit. Why do you think the Chevy and Ford guys are always putting new "gears" in the rear ends of their cars? Do a little research before you go referring to someone’s post at "idiocracy."

[presure2]

wow ummm i'm not goin to even respond to the kind of idiocracy of that last post....

dan, your "elietist" additude is getting REALLY old.
stop.
just to remind you,
you, or anyone on the site for that matter, is no better than the next guy.
so stop acting like you know it all, cause we all know in reality, you know very little.

[playr158]

no i understand his concept.....but its totally the opposite of the entire discussion....and i do understand "cassette' style swaps and i've raced motorcycles so i've played with plenty of gearing as well as building my own motors....
but my bad for the use of "idiocracy" i should have said "opposite thought posting".......the entire topic of the post here is to LOWER the RPM in 5th gear...maybe even fourth gear....to me when people talk about lowering and someone comes along and talks raising...while the concept is still good and dandy....its good for people who don't do trips, don't cruise on highways....which again goes the opposite of discussion.....

so really if you want to get back onto track and cut the crap....
lowering the 5th gear down and 4th gear....corey if you get time check it...if not...then oh well

and just for some referances of proper changes in gear ratios and costing you can check out this thread here

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2246118


This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 16, 2005 - 11:07 AM

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Dan, I might run up just to check out their shop and the work they do, and I'll definately see how much such a thing would run us financially. But I know that a "bulletproof" tranny like they build would be nice when I swap....plus taller gears would benefit everyone.

I'll keep everyone posted.

[Kwanza26]

heheh... you guys need to calm down a bit.

Also... there are two ways to modify the tranny. Changing the actual gears and then changing the final drive.

[anubis0108]

Alright, some of you have probably heard of this place, but I just remembered of a place i heard about called Level 10 Performance Transmission Systems (www.levelten.com). But at any rate, they seem to do just such work specializing in Imports...and turns out its only a 20 minute drive from my house...lol.

Art, youre probably right about spending alot of money on an already well designed transmission for stock Celicas, however getting a good condition E153 tranny from a 10+ year old MR2 is getting tougher and tougher for higher horsepower applications like a motor swap. Level 10 does group buys, and it would be great to see if they could give a respectable deal on a cryotreated or "bulletproof" gear set for our S54's, and maybe a longer 5th gear for those who want a better cruising gear for their stock Celicas. Maybe over my christmas break I'll stop by their shop and see what they think.

Anybody else interested??

you sparked my interest yea over chirstmas break if ya find out more info i want to know the pricing range.

[Celicav]

Hey, not that you want one, but just drive an Auto and you will have much lower RPMs cruising in higher gears. I know this is "off topic", but just a thought.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Yeah, the auto tranny on the GT uses a much broader top gear since theres only 4 gears instead of 5. I figure that aside from having high RPMS at not-so-fast highway speeds in 5th, it would be nice to see what they could do for our S54 trannys in terms of strengthening them a little via cryotreating them or shotpeening, or whatever along with maybe a lower final drive ratio or lower final gears for better cruising.

In all, I think it would be helpful to look into.....think of all the MR2 and Celica owners that could benefit something like this. Plus, a buddy of mine wants to upgrade the torque converter on his WRX, so I have a good excuse to go up there anyway.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

This post has been edited by Silver94CelicaOwner: Dec 18, 2005 - 10:58 PM

[[Freemantle]]

i'd like a 5th gear conversion on my celica just to drop the rpms about a grand and save some gas

Maximum fuel efficiency occurs at peak horsepower.

Erm, yes, that's true. Kinda. Your torque peak is at your vE peak, the engine speed at which the combustion chamber can successfully burn the most fuel. As far as efficiency goes, that would be the least efficent part of the powerband, as your fuel burned/engine cycle ratio is at its highest. Your most efficent engine speed is idling in neutral .

Oh, and for the "custom transmission" discussion: Honda people (88-91 CRXs for this example) have been using the short ass ZC transmission with an SI 5th gear for quite some time, and it is cheap-as-free. The 1-4 ZC transmission allows you to tear up to 70 mph while staying well within your powerband. The SI final drive/ 5th gear allow real power to be made at 115mph and 140mph top speeds.

This post has been edited by [Freemantle]: Dec 18, 2005 - 11:11 PM

[RocketScott]

' date='Dec 18, 2005 - 8:07 PM' post='368762']
Erm, yes, that's true. Kinda. Your torque peak is at your vE peak, the engine speed at which the combustion chamber can successfully burn the most fuel. As far as efficiency goes, that would be the least efficent part of the powerband, as your fuel burned/engine cycle ratio is at its highest. Your most efficent engine speed is idling in neutral .

You don't go anywhere sitting in idle. What would be the point of rating engines like that? I'm refering to fuel burned/miles driven, not fuel burned/engine cycle. Sometimes I oversimplify or omit important stuff, my bad.

You right about peak torque coinciding with the brake mean effective pressure. The volumetric efficiency doesn't necessarily coincide with peak torque though and it's certainly not the speed at which the combustion chamber can burn the most fuel. It's simply a ratio of charge volume to cylinder volume, no mention of how well that charge burns. There are many more factors involved like combustion efficiency.

I think at this point we've moved well off topic and beyond most of the people on this site in terms of usefullness. Just to stay on topic: I think I'll stick with my stock transmission

[macavely]

I've had my car for going on 2 years and yet I cant stop doing this, almost every time I hop on the freeway I accelarate at a rather fast pase 3rd, 4th, 5th and once I get to about 3k in 5th (60-65mph) I pull it out of 5th and try and drop it into 6th I catch myself before I slam into reverse spin out and flip off the road but still why. it makes no sence to me that I always go for a 6th gear when I know I dont have one. Is it me or does the 5sfe tranny gear ratio feel like it should have a 6th gear?

anyone else have a problem with this, and does anyone know of a swapable tranny that has a 6th gear, I know the salara trany bults up, but I thnk its just another 5spd.

yea i have done that before.... i also have totally missed 3rd and shifted into 5th from 2nd and also into 1st from 4th .. and wow .. not a nice feeling or sound... i also still stall around corners sometims... droping for 3rd to 2nd ... at low speeds.. still trying to figure out how i still do that.... but the worst is when R jams ... and i have to pull back to N then back into R....

as for tranny that bults up .. yeah .. the one you have.. the simplist thing to do would be going to a tranny shop having them pull your internal ... and giving you a custom 6th gear... but that comes at a high price... but if you have the funds and are willing to do that.. i can give you the names/numbers of some tranny shop that can help you with that ..