The MR2T tranny "short axel" solution, For those that want to know... Options

[jgreening]

For people that are interested in running the MR2T tranny in their swap, you may have noticed many people claiming that their axel pops out because it is too short. Different combinations of inners and outters have been tried with sporatic results. So, for kicks, I took a look at mine to see what was done on the passenger side. Guess, what? When Jamasco did mine, they added a second "thicker section" (sorry I don't know the name of this piece). And then used longer studs to connect the two sections together. Looks OEM and I have had no problems. I will take some pics if anyone is interested.

[lagos]

pics please!

[Supersprynt]

What combination of axles are you using?

I second the pics request.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

third the request...this should be very good info

bboy

[jgreening]

What combination of axles are you using?

I second the pics request.

I know I have MR2T inners but I never did find out what the outters were. People have had the "short axel" problem with both ST185 and Camry V6 outters though. I would imagine those are the same or VERY close.

I will try to get some pics for you guys this weekend.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 13, 2006 - 10:19 AM

[Supersprynt]

So basically what your saying is that between the inner and outter 1/2 shafts Jamasco placed a sort of "spacer" or "gasket" w/extended bolts.

Would you be able to inquire about this to them? See if they could either reproduce it for sale, give out a part # or maybe even do the work if an axle was sent to them? I have passenger side axle problems as we speak (ST185/MR2T combo). I have an OEM LSD inner with a TRD LSD so I think thats the problem but it could only be part.

Thanks Jay.

[jgreening]

So basically what your saying is that between the inner and outter 1/2 shafts Jamasco placed a sort of "spacer" or "gasket" w/extended bolts.

The "spacer" as you call it is really just the same part of another axel. I believe it is the end of the outter but I am not sure. Its the piece that is significantly wider than the axel shaft which is midway between the tranny and the hub on the passenger side.

Would you be able to inquire about this to them? See if they could either reproduce it for sale, give out a part # or maybe even do the work if an axle was sent to them?

Perhaps you would like me to take a dump for you too?

You can get their number here:

Jamasco / Scion Speed

[Rjb23]

Pics, I haven't had trouble from mine yet(knock on wood) but I'd like to see it.

[Supersprynt]

Yeah your right I can do it myself but keep it civil.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Jan 13, 2006 - 2:36 PM

[jgreening]

It was a joke (hence the smily face). I apologize if it offended you.

[OOBE]

Damn, some people get butt-hurt so easy on the Interweb, LOL.

Anyway, that's sweet. Pics would be great. Not like I am doing it also, but the more I know, the better.

[Supersprynt]

It was a joke (hence the smily face). I apologize if it offended you.

S'alright, I'm just a lil ticked off with this place as of late.

OOBE stfu.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Jan 13, 2006 - 3:39 PM

[JoKeRkId613]

It was a joke (hence the smily face). I apologize if it offended you.

S'alright, I'm just a lil ticked off with this place as of late.

OOBE stfu.

awww. poor baby. jk man. lol.

[OOBE]

LOL@

[Rjb23]

Pics?

[lagos]

jack up the car and take lots of pics!!!

[SilverCell94]

great update,

i been trying to figure this out myself but like you said all the answers are either vauge or sporatic, nothing too solid.

what is your current set-up? im trying to do the st185 w/e153 tranny. just trying to figure out the axles.

[jgreening]

I just took a couple pics. You can see the pieces I am talking about circled in red.





Enjoy.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 15, 2006 - 11:47 PM

[jgreening]

bump for pics

[jgreening]

suprised noone has weighed in here after posting pics....I guess it hasn't been that long.

[lagos]

now, where the hell did that come from! it dosnt look like a custom made part.

[scothaniel]

Looks like they removed the CV housing from another axle and bolted it in.

[jgreening]

Looks like they removed the CV housing from another axle and bolted it in.

CV housing huh? I was wondering what that was called. I am surprised that putting those two pieces together fit so snuggly - it almost looks like one piece. Anyone else have any comments on this?

[Defgeph]

Please figure this out guys, excellent information.

I'm going to sticky this.

[Defgeph]

have you tired posting this on mr2oc ?

[jgreening]

have you tired posting this on mr2oc ?

No, given that its not an issue with their cars, I doubt it would get that much response. However, anyone that is interested in the info has my permission to post the pictures on whatever forums they want.

[lagos]

anyone got a pic of a normal mr2 axel to compare this with ?

[scothaniel]

I have a spare set I can take some pics of.

There is one thing that troubles me about the picture. If they did indeed bolt a second CV housing between the inner shaft and outer axle, how would this effect the compressed axle length?

The inner shaft has a domed surface where the outer bolts up, which could act as a stop to keep the axle from over compressing. If the middle housing is hollow, then the axle could compress an extra an or so.

I think pics would help describe what I'm trying to say!

[ZoomZoom]

can you please find out from what car did they get those spacer.
Thank you.

[playr158]

i would assume it would come from another MR2 axel...since it would just bolt in, they seem to be they same thickness

[speedy]

Are there any updates for this thread?

[Supersprynt]

I didnt see that pic. I am going to get under my car take pics of the E153/ST185 combo that I have for a comparison.

[sugarfree]

Yea, i would like to know this also, because im plannin on using a s54 tranny. And its said that i need the st185 inners and combine it with the GT outers. If i need to do this, i might need this solution also. Im wondering if i could just use the GT axels on that tranny instead of custom.

[Supersprynt]

NO the S54 transmission is the GT tranny and all you need is GT axles, complete ones.

[sugarfree]

Awsome, i just did a search right before you answered, but your answer is alot more clear. Pefect.

[Supersprynt]

ST185 outters/E153 OEM LSD inners.




This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 14, 2006 - 10:05 PM

[jgreening]

[Supersprynt]

Yours looks bigger, but idk if its just an angle playing with my eyes. Maybe I'll measure it tomorrow.

[lagos]

umm that looks like the same sh1t. maybe all mr2 axels look like this?

This post has been edited by lagos: Feb 14, 2006 - 9:55 PM

[SeanGTS]

My Mr2 inners look indentical to supersprynts first picture.

Why not just go with the a definitive answer, and call this jasmico company and ask them their logic if any was used?

[Supersprynt]

I contaced them, never got a response.

[jgreening]

umm that looks like the same sh1t. maybe all mr2 axels look like this?

its your eyes playing tricks on you.

[presure2]

ouch, erik that looks stretched!
now i see what you guys are talking about..lol
looks like using that "ring" as a spacer works pretty well...maybe a machined peice to replace it almost like a wheelspacer would work?

[Supersprynt]

Jay is your car jacked up in that pic?

[jgreening]

Jay is your car jacked up in that pic?

No.

[scothaniel]

Its 2 All-Trac CV housings for sure (outer-race for the proper name).

I bought a trashed 185 outer shaft from a buddy, separated the outer-race and added it between the MR2 inner and current 185 outer - absolutly perfect fit!

If anyone else is going to do this, be sure to have a set of 10mm x 1.5 - 90mm socket head bolts on hand, as hex-head bolts will hit the sides of the axel.

[Supersprynt]

Nice, I should have my outer's lying around somewhere, just gotta get new MR2 axle and im good.

[Green_MachToy]

Yeah - this works great! I took the outer portion that bolts up to the MR2 inner...second one off of a "spare" st185 or v6 axle. I went down to the hardware store spent 10 bucks (got extra bolts just in case). Made sure to line them up so the channel on the inside does not allow the ball bearings to slide all the way into the "spare" spacer. Made that mistake once! Bolted it up and was good to go! I've been running with mine for over a year! By the way anyone ever look at a Camry V6 axle and a ST185 - when I did, they looked the exact same. So unless they are made of different grades or something I didn't notice...they appear to be the same!

Thanks this was a great note!

This post has been edited by Green_MachToy: Mar 2, 2006 - 12:45 AM

[celica3sgte]

Just for reference, the difference between the camry and st185 axle is the outer end with the spline. The splines are different. It won't fit into the celica hub.

[jgreening]

Just for reference, the difference between the camry and st185 axle is the outer end with the spline. The splines are different. It won't fit into the celica hub.

Kuya1284 (board name) used v6 camry axels without problems.

Second entry in completed engine swaps

[ems3s]

Just for reference, the difference between the camry and st185 axle is the outer end with the spline. The splines are different. It won't fit into the celica hub.

Kuya1284 (board name) used v6 camry axels without problems.

Second entry in completed engine swaps

Early model camry v6's ~'90 have the same outer spline as st204 but later model camry ~'95(more common now) have larger splines. sorry had to clear that up. Having done the conversion twice now, I've learnt that people should be more specific with quotes and advice, cos it gets costly when you order wrong parts.

On a separate matter I think that people are using two left st185 shafts in their 204's cos I havent had any problems with my shafts popping out.
I have spoken to several wreckers in my area who swear that both shafts are same but they're clearly not. There is about an inch difference between the two. Anyway not trying to sidetrack this thread but thought it may explain the problem.

[madmods]

Man I learn alot from you guys

[scothaniel]

I have spoken to several wreckers in my area who swear that both shafts are same but they're clearly not

According to Toyota they are the same. Same part number in the EPC, and the last set I ordered for my AllTrac were listed only as being for the front.

[Supersprynt]

Jay can you take a pic of your drivers side also?

Yeah - this works great! I took the outer portion that bolts up to the MR2 inner...second one off of a "spare" st185 or v6 axle. I went down to the hardware store spent 10 bucks (got extra bolts just in case). Made sure to line them up so the channel on the inside does not allow the ball bearings to slide all the way into the "spare" spacer. Made that mistake once! Bolted it up and was good to go! I've been running with mine for over a year! By the way anyone ever look at a Camry V6 axle and a ST185 - when I did, they looked the exact same. So unless they are made of different grades or something I didn't notice...they appear to be the same!

Thanks this was a great note!

Can you go into more detail about lining the channel up and the ball bearings?

Did you get socket cap head bolts like the originals or go with just Hex head? I have been unable to find the same type of bolt but 2'' longer.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Apr 2, 2006 - 1:03 PM

[Supersprynt]

Here is the piece that seperates from the axle that can be used as a spacer - i havent put it altogether yet

[ILuvMyCelica95]

^ yeah i take good pics.

[Green_MachToy]

I have a few extra bolts if you need them. They are exactly like the originals only longer. I am not too great and getting th epics in here, but I will give it a shot.[link]http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPhoto&albumID=549177188&photoID=2191449550058659770&security=gdjWAa[/link][link]http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPhoto&albumID=549177188&photoID=2127861520058659770&security=WWuNAN[/link][link]http://community.webshots.com/myphotos?action=showPhoto&albumID=549177188&photoID=2052941580058659770&security=qJLpRF[/link]

I was just trying to say, when you put the second "spacer" up against the first space that is already on the axle with the boot, make sure the channels on the inside do not line up. If you place the second spacer on the bolts and notice that the channels flow smoothly all the way through...stop and flip the second one over. THis should put a ridge in the way of the channel and everything will work fine.Axle without second spacer

This post has been edited by Green_MachToy: Apr 3, 2006 - 8:13 PM

[Supersprynt]

Your pics arent really working in the forum but do work.... I have been looking all over for those bolts and nobody has those so I was goign to just use hex had Grade 8s. Where did you find yours?


[img]http://image48.webshots.com/49/4/49/55/2191449550058659770gdjWAa_ph.jpg
[img]http://image48.webshots.com/48/8/61/52/2127861520058659770WWuNAN_ph.jpg
[img]http://image38.webshots.com/39/9/41/58/2052941580058659770qJLpRF_ph.jpg

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Apr 3, 2006 - 8:21 PM

[playr158]

erik go to www.mcmaster.com you'll probably be able to find the stuff you need there they have practically everything

and me FTW:





3rd times a charm

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 3, 2006 - 10:48 PM

[Supersprynt]

thats what u think.

[scothaniel]

For fasteners:

http://www.fastenal.com/

[scothaniel]

Just bought a few of these 10mm x 1.5 x 90mm CL 12.9 socket head machine screws today from Fastenal for my axel:
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=1139628

Since they didn't have any open bags, I had to buy the 25 pk (or wait til Monday to get the 6 I needed).

So, if anyone needs a set for their car - let me know. I'll sell them for what I paid - $.99 each (+shipping).

[Supersprynt]

Update: Made my axle, heres a pic:


Old one:

[presure2]

congrats erik!

[jgreening]

Why is there the big gap with the gasket sealer? Did they not fit together tightly?

[Supersprynt]

Its not a gap its bearing grease oozing out when I starting to bolt them tight. You have to use alot more grease because theres a big open area inside.

[devilsden97]

3 letters


L. S. P.

[scothaniel]

3 letters


L. S. P

Got any more letters - can I buy a vowel?

Not quite sure what your referring to. A quick Google search found Louisiana State Police, London Sailing Project, and my favorite - Lesbian Sexual Partners!

[Supersprynt]

He's referring to my possible debuting of the car at the Liberty State Park meet.

[devilsden97]

3 letters


L. S. P

Got any more letters - can I buy a vowel?

Not quite sure what your referring to. A quick Google search found Louisiana State Police, London Sailing Project, and my favorite - Lesbian Sexual Partners!

i love how everyone here googles things when they dont know what things mean lol

[Rjb23]

Have you tried putting the axle in yet? I did the same thing but the axle was to long and the wheel hub would not bolt back up to the strut.

[scothaniel]

I also checked the urbandictionary - but I didnt think "Love Sick Puppy" applied here!

[Supersprynt]

Have you tried putting the axle in yet? I did the same thing but the axle was to long and the wheel hub would not bolt back up to the strut.

No I havent, what axle setup do you have & transmission?

I dont know why some people have a short axle problem and some don't.

[Rjb23]

I have a 91 e153 non lsd with 91 alltrac axles and 91 mr2 inners.

I was thinking of taking that spacer and getting it cut in half and put one on each side. My axles are stretched but they aren't stretched that far.

The passenger side shouldnt pop out anyway if you have the half shaft bearing and bracket attached. The driverside is what you have to worry about.

[Supersprynt]

I have 93+ tranny and 93 axles, obviously. I have to take the drivers side apart also so maybe I'll put in my other extra spacer.

I'm concerned mostly about the CV coming apart, if its stretched it can come apart easily.

Hopefully this isnt too big, I also dont know what tranny Jay is using.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Apr 20, 2006 - 2:52 PM

[jgreening]

I have 93+ tranny and 93 axles, obviously. I have to take the drivers side apart also so maybe I'll put in my other extra spacer.

I'm concerned mostly about the CV coming apart, if its stretched it can come apart easily.

Hopefully this isnt too big, I also dont know what tranny Jay is using.

1993 JDM MR2T tranny.

And by the way, its the passenger side that has the short axel problem.

[yungazzdriver]

i got a new short axle solution guys so pay attention,.........its a 1993 toyota celica all-trac e153 transmission with the differential cover plate off of an mr2 and the components from the tranny that go to the rear end on an all-trac removed completely and it has a cusco lsd 2 way and i am using alltrac axles and its a plug and play option, especially if you find a st205 tranny, because i needed the alltrac 93 tranny brackets and the gt mounts. i can use my stock st shift linkages.

[scothaniel]

I'm confused - can you run through that again?

The way I read it, it sounds like your converting the AWD E150F transmission to 2WD by removing the center diff and installing the MR2 diff housing plate. While that may take care of the shifter linkage, that doesn't do anything for the axels - by removing the center diff you have to add an iintermediate shaft.

[yungazzdriver]

so what your telling me is that a st185 tranny will not bolt on................it is a direct fit nothing needed to do to "make"it fit, its a direct bolt on and i forgot to mention that the ratios are different and longer than the mr2 tranny making it a better option, it has alrerady been tried out on my car and fits like it was meant to go i dont know what it is for the difference between the two whether one is a little bit longer or what it is but i know it is a direct fit and if yall want ill take pics today if i can find the transfer cable to the computer

[phattyduck]

so what your telling me is that a st185 tranny will not bolt on................it is a direct fit nothing needed to do to "make"it fit, its a direct bolt on and i forgot to mention that the ratios are different and longer than the mr2 tranny making it a better option, it has alrerady been tried out on my car and fits like it was meant to go i dont know what it is for the difference between the two whether one is a little bit longer or what it is but i know it is a direct fit and if yall want ill take pics today if i can find the transfer cable to the computer

Please learn how to type and write. It will make lots of us much happier...

If you put an MR2 diff and cover plate on an all-trac/GT4 tranny, you will have to add an intermediate shaft in place of the transfer case that was removed from tranny. The ST185 outers are a good choice (the pop into your hubs no problem...) but they may be the wrong length based on the intermediate shaft and other factors (this is where the 6gc'ers will need to chime in). But yes, you can convert your ST185 tranny (E150) to an E153 by swapping the diff.

-Charlie

PS. I'm using all '90 V6 Camry stuff (with MR2 axle carrier) on my ST205 motor / E153 tranny combo - but its going into my '90 Camry...

[yungazzdriver]

so what your telling me is that a st185 tranny will not bolt on................it is a direct fit nothing needed to do to "make"it fit, its a direct bolt on and i forgot to mention that the ratios are different and longer than the mr2 tranny making it a better option, it has alrerady been tried out on my car and fits like it was meant to go i dont know what it is for the difference between the two whether one is a little bit longer or what it is but i know it is a direct fit and if yall want ill take pics today if i can find the transfer cable to the computer

Please learn how to type and write. It will make lots of us much happier...

If you put an MR2 diff and cover plate on an all-trac/GT4 tranny, you will have to add an intermediate shaft in place of the transfer case that was removed from tranny. The ST185 outers are a good choice (the pop into your hubs no problem...) but they may be the wrong length based on the intermediate shaft and other factors (this is where the 6gc'ers will need to chime in). But yes, you can convert your ST185 tranny (E150) to an E153 by swapping the diff.

-Charlie

PS. I'm using all '90 V6 Camry stuff (with MR2 axle carrier) on my ST205 motor / E153 tranny combo - but its going into my '90 Camry...

look man im tired of people like you talking about vocab here, this isnt english class so get over it for real, you understand what i mean ok lay off! and i barely typed anything wrong! look at yours i saw atleast one thing wrong in there so there. and im here to share what i am experimenting with and it worked perfectly so i can share with the community so lay the hell off im here to help like others and people understand what i mean

[afroman]

I think the big thing is your lack of periods or sentence ending punctuation. It makes things hard to follow. Either way, what your talking about has been done. there is sticky on celicatech, about conveting the AWD to FWD. If you had pics that would help clear things up.
-Aaron-

[phattyduck]

look man im tired of people like you talking about vocab here, this isnt english class so get over it for real, you understand what i mean ok lay off! and i barely typed anything wrong! look at yours i saw atleast one thing wrong in there so there. and im here to share what i am experimenting with and it worked perfectly so i can share with the community so lay the hell off im here to help like others and people understand what i mean

LOL... If you want intelligent responses, write in an intelligent manner. I'm not asking you to be perfect (and nobody else is either, I hope). And it is totally incorrect to say that you 'barely typed anything wrong'... If there is something that multiple people have pointed out to you, stop complaining about them and start looking at yourself.

The real issue is that I didn't understand what you were saying! If you type something that people don't understand, you end up spreading mis-information - and none of us want that.

Whatever the case - if you have an E153 (from an MR2, from a Camry, or a converted All-trac), you will have the same issue with the axles. When you have a solution that worked for you, take some pictures and show everybody.

-Charlie

[jgreening]

Hey guys please stop cluttering up my thread with this bickering. Thank you.

[K-ESD]

now i'm more confused than ever about the camry/st185/mr2 axles

someone please clear this up ( those with "(?) <---------------- " )

Driver side inner stub shaft:

-mr2 turbo w/lsd
-lsd stub shaft

-mr2 turbo w/o lsd
-non lsd shaft

-camry v6 w/o lsd
-camry stub shaft (?) <------------

Passenger side Intermediate shaft

-mr2 turbo w/lsd
-same as non lsd (?)<----------------

-mr2 turbo w/o lsd
-same as lsd (?) <--------------------

-camry v6 w/o lsd
-camry shaft (?) <---------------


Outter axles

Driver side
-ST185 driver side
-Camry v6 driver side (?) <---------------

Passenger side
-ST185 passenger w/ extra spacer
-Camry v6 passenger side w/ spacer (?)<----------------

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Apr 25, 2006 - 5:26 PM

[Supersprynt]

90 Camry w/ST205 motor, wow sleeper.

[HaRv3sTeR]

90 Camry w/ST205 motor, wow sleeper.

i think he's talking about the camry engine into the celi not the camry with a 3sgte

[Supersprynt]

PS. I'm using all '90 V6 Camry stuff (with MR2 axle carrier) on my ST205 motor / E153 tranny combo - but its going into my '90 Camry...

[phattyduck]

90 Camry w/ST205 motor, wow sleeper.

i think he's talking about the camry engine into the celi not the camry with a 3sgte

The ST205 3s-gte is going in my Camry... w/ all the trimmings but the AWD and big brakes... (E153, KAAZ LSD, stock ST205 AWIC+heat exchanger, etc.)

I believe my Camry is narrower than the 6gc, so I don't have the axle issue...

-Charlie

[BBoYRuGGeD]

The ST205 3s-gte is going in my Camry... w/ all the trimmings but the AWD and big brakes... (E153, KAAZ LSD, stock ST205 AWIC+heat exchanger, etc.)

I believe my Camry is narrower than the 6gc, so I don't have the axle issue...

-Charlie

wow that is a sleeper...sweeeeeet

bboy

[ZoomZoom]

I was wondering if anybody have figure it out if this setup w/ the spacer is too long,
or its fits perfect. Im currently working on the same short axle soulution right now but I just wanted to know coz Rib said that its too long. ofr the guys that did the work, is it too long or is it perfect fit.
Please let me know before I start working on it.
Thank you,

[Rjb23]

It was to long for me but it may not be for others. Once I put the spacer on I had a very hard time getting the axle back in the hub and then once I did that I couldn't get the strut bolted back up.

One question for you guys did you put the spacer on so that the bearings could go into the spacer or put it on so it couldn't?

[Supersprynt]

I turned the spacer so that the bearings would not be able to fit inside spacer. You'd loose the CV if they could, and then I packed the spacer full of bearing grease.

[ZoomZoom]

supersprynt,
was your axle too long as well like rjb23 or yours is perfect fit?

[Supersprynt]

I havent put it in yet I'll tell you tomorrow.

[burneeed]

Ok I finished mine last night... Mr2 inners and alltrac outers. On the passenger side where the inners connect to the outers what I did was take the drivers side inner... I had an extra one used that... I sawed off the end of it so it would make a 1/4" more room. Fit in there perfectly. Drove like a beauty with this new tranny. Now the problem I had was the balls fell out of the axle. Got to find a way to get that taken care of.

[Supersprynt]

Well heres the situation. The axle is the perfect length with a full "extra" spacer if I put the axle all the way into the transmission. However, if I do that my carrier bearing is almost 1/2'' to far inwards to bolt up. As far as I know, axles are supposed to go in as far as they can, but the bearing wont bolt up to the block if I do that. Also, if I bolt up the bearing, the axle is too long to bolt the hub back up.

So I have a request. Can someone take a picture of their inner axle to see how much of the inner comes out of the transmission?

If the bearing decides how far the axle goes in, then the spacer needs to be cut about 1/2'' so that the hub can bolt in.

Burneed did you saw off 1/4'' or did you saw off everything but a 1/4'' and what did you use? I dont think a hack saw will work with this piece.

Edit: Also what Im reading on MR2 board is that some axles wont bolt up if they are the wrong axles. So now Im doubting everything I have, which is even more frustrating.

Can someone with the MR2 tranny take a pic of the transmission where the axle enters so I can get an idea?

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: May 7, 2006 - 5:54 PM

[BBoYRuGGeD]

holy damn that sucks supersprynt...hopefully u figure it out and everything works out aright for ya man and soon too! this sorta scares me into going with the e153 swap but lucky me my s54 is still in great shape and my driving habits are very easy on the car

bboy

[Supersprynt]

Honestly, I totally regret putting in the E153. But my S54 had 190+k on it and I felt it was a ticking time-bomb. Maybe if it wasnt so much "will this work, does that work" then it wouldnt be so bad, but what a nightmare.

[WannabeGT4]

I don't see this section in Jay's axle setup. It looks to be about 1/2" wide. Can it be taken out?