Stock 5s limit Options

[macavely]

Ok i can't seam to find what i was looking for ..

so my question is what is the highest reported boost before breakdown on a 5s with stock internals..

and also does anyone if there is a company that makes stronger valve spring for for the 5s ?

[recneps]

Ok i can't seam to find what i was looking for ..

so my question is what is the highest reported boost before breakdown on a 5s with stock internals..

and also does anyone if there is a company that makes stronger valve spring for for the 5s ?

i think itchy made 15 on the stock 5s. thats the highest i remember.

also, supertech i think will make any kind of valve spring for i think anycar custom spring rates and stuff. you should look them up.

[presure2]

i ran just about 15lbs @ the track for a couple passes...wouldnt run it every day like that tho..lol

[x_itchy_b_x]

word i ran 15psi alot. spiked at 20 once also when my MBC was first put on cause i didnt build it properly forgot to put a hole in it to vent boost.

[lagos]

most motors wont blow up just by running higher boost once or twice. if you keep running that same high boost often then youll see engine damage. so i think the question is hard to reply to, because there is no real proof what boost level is safe or not, unless somone has run that same boost for a year or more.

[x_itchy_b_x]

i did one summer at 13psi constantly. to bad we dont know if it really did damage
some one buy my 5s and blow it up.

[jayi12-15psi]

I usually hear reports that it's not wise to go over 6lbs with out fuel system upgrades. It all depends on the condition of your engine and your set up. For instance, if you're running stock injectors, I wouldn't go higher than 6lbs. If your car has alot of miles, you may want to consider an engine overhaul. Then of course, I'll just go out and say it...


Your probably better off with the 3sgte.

[macavely]

well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

[jayi12-15psi]

Isn't as easily done?

[macavely]

yea.. a swap your taking a motor that was intended for performance and has alot more support for making more power... the 5s as everyone here know is an ecano box... an getting it to the point i want it to be will take more time/money/R&D then if i just swapped in a 3sgte in there ...

[jayi12-15psi]

ok, ok, ic. You're up to your old stubborn tricks. lol, no offense.

[macavely]

lol .. no none take... but its something i might have to do .. for the soul reason of me showing off the work i'm capable of doing .. no other reason ..

[lagos]

well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

i wouldnt say that any car, at daily driven 20psi, would be an easy thing. swap or 5sfTe.

[macavely]

well the reason for my question is just to get an idea of how much work i would have to do .. to make the motor abl to handle 18- 20lbs of boots (for daily driving) ... an before anyone says do a swap .. NO.. (mac smacks you on noise) ... if things work out for us like i hope they will .. We would need to do something that isn't as easlly done as 3sgte swap for power...

i wouldnt say that any car, at daily driven 20psi, would be an easy thing. swap or 5sfTe.

depends at what corner of the shop your looking from ... .

[Defgeph]

If your looking for big power, you wont find it in a 5sfe Mac. I know it sucks to hear, but no matter what you do. Its very limited.

[macavely]

I know its limited ... i'm not looking to make this a beast that will distroy all that come my way... this is a project to show off my building skills an what we can do with an econo engine ... we might find out we can take way pass what anyone else has done... but our plan is to buil push it to limits an see how long we can keep it at its limit..

[jayi12-15psi]

mac, if you're looking at the project from the corner of the shop, you're not showing off your skills.

[lagos]

building a 5sfe that can handle 20 psi will not show off your building skills. it will just show that you have REALLY deep pockets.

[macavely]

mac, if you're looking at the project from the corner of the shop, you're not showing off your skills.

lol .. you totaly missed understood that statment ... lol ..

building a 5sfe that can handle 20 psi will not show off your building skills. it will just show that you have REALLY deep pockets.

its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

[presure2]

mac, you wanna run 20psi...? its easy..
forged EVERYTHING, build the hell outta the head..cams, OS valves the whole shoot, and a good metal headgasket...slap on the RIGHT turbo, with proper engine management, with a REAL tuner, and then just cross your fingers, and hope the block holds together.
jim snodgrass made 515 on a built 5s with the right goodies..

[Kwanza26]

its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

building an engine is building an engine. It's the same amount of work if you use OEM parts or parts that can handle 20psi... it's only a matter of $$$$... that's what lagos means.

[jayi12-15psi]

sorry mac, sometimes your posts are hard to understand

it sounded as if you were calling it easy because you were standing in the corner of the shop watching a mechanic do the work.

This post has been edited by jayi12-15psi: Jan 26, 2006 - 12:27 PM

[lagos]

its one thing if your sending a motor out for work to get done.. its another thing when your doing all the work yourself... now your telling me cause i'm going to do all this work myself i have no skills??

building an engine is building an engine. It's the same amount of work if you use OEM parts or parts that can handle 20psi... it's only a matter of $$$$... that's what lagos means.

yep thats what i mean. its the same amount of work to put it oem pistons and rods and it is to go with forged ones. the problem is, that youll have to upgrade EVERYTHING in the motor to do what you want. so the real skill here is to have enough money to change everything and to be able to keep up with all the issues that come up from having such a custom setup.

20psi is A LOT of boost. its not easy to run that much on pump gas. a 3s would have a hard time with it, and a high comression motor like a 5sfe wouldnt stand a chance. remember, your talking about building a 300-400hp 5sfe. if i had to guess, id say that would cost you at least 10grand to build up the motor, with the turbo and stand alone ecu. and even after that, it wouldnt be a realiable daily driver. even if you did the same mods on a 3sgte, getting 300-400 hp out of a 4cyl motor is not an easy task.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 26, 2006 - 3:15 PM

[macavely]

if off everyone please stop worrying about how much this rebuild is going to cost unless you want to filp the bill for it.. i don't remebering asking for prices....

and as for not involving skills can i have a show of hands... how many people on this froum have rebuilt and a 5s .. or any engine for that fact to handle 20lbs of boost on a daily driven car ? kwanza i know you might have.. so who else ?? an if you have or haven't .. tell give me a list of every little think that should be doen to get a motor to that point ?

lets stop with the shouldn't do this or that and put some useful info on this site for any future tunners that are looking for some answers ... can we do that people ? or am i still going to get the tipical go with a swap response ?

[lagos]

i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

[macavely]

i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

not really if done right .. i been down that road befor... pump gas and 320 to the wheels ... every reliable for the 2 yeas i was abusing the motor trying to get it fail ..

it still shocks me how people on this site still don't trully know what can be done to a motor... and hp is not my goal hear.. it is running 20lbs of boost on a daily driver... the motor will be set up to handle more then the 20lbs i'm going for...

[blackthunder]

i may be a noob but im with you on this mac. i have big plans for my car and the only goal is to just do it. HP, time slips, psi, its all an aside. build it to say that you can and did and enjoy the he11 out of it while you have it!

[Kwanza26]

Just build it we'll see...

[NuclearHappineS]

i don't care much for xpsi

you can make 300hp @ 12psi or 200 hp @21psi

alot of psi is more heat, and the possibility of lifting the head (since that psi gets multiplied up by compression) ...

a ported and oversized valves and cammed 5sfe will make more hp @ lower psi...so if your goal is 20psi that doesn't quite make sense to me ... you can do that on a stock 5sfe with enough octane ...but that doesn't mean you'll make the power you think you'd be making...

as far as valve springs...depending on what year 5sfe you're using ...either 3sgte, or 4age, or 2jzge valve springs will drop right in ...some years had smaller valve springs which are compatable with the 4age stuff...and other years had larger springs in which case the 3sgte/2jzge size would fit ...and it's definately an upgrade since all these motors have higher lift cams, and higher redlines...

good luck with your project...

[macavely]

i don't care much for xpsi

you can make 300hp @ 12psi or 200 hp @21psi

alot of psi is more heat, and the possibility of lifting the head (since that psi gets multiplied up by compression) ...

a ported and oversized valves and cammed 5sfe will make more hp @ lower psi...so if your goal is 20psi that doesn't quite make sense to me ... you can do that on a stock 5sfe with enough octane ...but that doesn't mean you'll make the power you think you'd be making...

as far as valve springs...depending on what year 5sfe you're using ...either 3sgte, or 4age, or 2jzge valve springs will drop right in ...some years had smaller valve springs which are compatable with the 4age stuff...and other years had larger springs in which case the 3sgte/2jzge size would fit ...and it's definately an upgrade since all these motors have higher lift cams, and higher redlines...

good luck with your project...

thanks for the spring info.. as for the psi issue its really not for making high HP numbers at this time.. simply for testing out diffrent parts on a 5s .. basically we are looking to maked the engine fail once built a specific way .. and with the compresion rate of the pistions 20psi will well lets hope cause alot of damage ..

[presure2]

lemme get this straight mac.
you. mr broke.
gonna put several thousand dollars into a motor, just to break it purposly?
i think you been thinking to much at work again mac.

[macavely]

lemme get this straight mac.
you. mr broke.
gonna put several thousand dollars into a motor, just to break it purposly?
i think you been thinking to much at work again mac.

When did i ever say i was founding this ..or this was being doing to my engine ??

[presure2]

well, you obviously made it sound like you were gonna be doing the work to your own car.

[playr158]

i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

not really if done right .. i been down that road befor... pump gas and 320 to the wheels ... every reliable for the 2 yeas i was abusing the motor trying to get it fail ..

it still shocks me how people on this site still don't trully know what can be done to a motor... and hp is not my goal hear.. it is running 20lbs of boost on a daily driver... the motor will be set up to handle more then the 20lbs i'm going for...

right now in my area there is a report of a 411whp sentra street driven on pump gas
oh and i know several 1.8L jetta's running over 20psi daily..some above 35psi

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 2, 2006 - 12:03 PM

[lagos]

lemme get this straight mac.
you. mr broke.
gonna put several thousand dollars into a motor, just to break it purposly?
i think you been thinking to much at work again mac.

[macavely]

well, you obviously made it sound like you were gonna be doing the work to your own car.

how?? i never said anything was being done to or on my car in this thread... i only spoke of working on a 5s ...

[jayi12-15psi]

Who else's car where we supposed to think it was?

Mac, just do the damn thing already, blow the engine to high hell. This is getting old.

[teal_terrorGT]

I am here reading these post about high boost and high horse power. what about a balance street car with good throttle response like the MR2 Beast, usuable reliable horsepower. I seen car with less horspower and less boost potential smack up high horsepower cars many times. A good street car is a terrible track car and visa versa. Know what you want and build it and understand what you are building and how it best performs.

Presure2 car is a perfect example of useable , reliable responsive horsepower. This is my 10 cents.

We all agree that 3SGTE is the ideal motor and has more horsepower potential but as we are seeing 5S is cable of matching the 3S with mild mods with out the swaps.

Trust me I have noting but love for the 3sgte...it is a remarkable engine but is not the only fun engine to drive i have a blast driving my boosted 5S and will sooner or later build a mean 3SGTE project, but all of us dont have swap shops and tools, some of us want to tinker with out rides and learn about boost before investing 2500 for a nose clip 3sgte and non smog legal motors before we take the 3SGTE.

some of us need to drive low boost and so on before building road wrinkling monsters.

I readign in a 96 turbo mag they tested a 2.2N/A with a turbo in a MR2 and it blew up at 327 bhp on stock internals on 14 psi and 111K on the motor. Back then no one new about DSM injectors on a 5S.

[3WayStunna]

Wow...it would be somthin to see someone rebuild a 5sfe and make it a good mix between a beast, and a daily driver....why not do it mac.......enough with talkin about it, and asking rhetorical questions, just do it, so we can all say ohhhhhhhh, ahhhhhhhhhhhh

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

i dont think anyone is saying to go with a swap. we already know thats too "easy" for you. and even if you were talking about running that much boost on a 3sgte, i would still tell you to build that up.

300-400hp on a 4cyl, fwd car, running on pump gas, is not going to be realiable or make a good daily driver.

I've got a buddy in town who has a 400hp 1.8l Civic he drives to work everyday. He works on it a good bit, but not much more than the stock DSMs. I'm glad to see some love for the 5s around. The limits on it just keep being pushed. I mean, if people can regularly get 400hp out of those D16 motors, how can we not at least pull some decent hp from a 5s? Those 400hp D16 are usually race cars though, but still, I made my point.

[presure2]

I mean, if people can regularly get 400hp out of those D16 motors, how can we not at least pull some decent hp from a 5s?

exactly my thinking behind my 5SFTE.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I mean, if people can regularly get 400hp out of those D16 motors, how can we not at least pull some decent hp from a 5s?

exactly my thinking behind my 5SFTE.

[lagos]

oh no... not this thread again

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 10, 2006 - 2:33 PM

[My2Celi]

Why not a 5sgte? mr2 guys are very interesting.

[presure2]

Why not a 5sgte? mr2 guys are very interesting.

do you even know what is involved in a 5sgte?
what we're talking about has NOTHING to do with a 5s based stroker.

[My2Celi]

i got owned.. (still learning)

This post has been edited by My2Celi: Jul 11, 2006 - 8:01 PM