the e-ram, my experience Options

[celicaST]

ok, first off, this is NOT a thread to debate whether this product is beneficial or not (ill put that to rest soon enough). ive argued the idea of an electric supercharger on the other thread, so NONE of that here. plus i guarantee you will lose the argument this thread is to document my experience with this controversial product. i realize im taking a gamble, but for $300 i figured i might as well. i wouldnt have bought it unless i was confident it would work. this is what im getting for those who dont know. it is a 833watt, 25000rpm motor capable of delivering 800 CFM in free air
2006 e-ram
it will be installed between the throttle body and the existing stock airbox so as to retain cold air intake. so ill be the guinea pig, and i will post my honest impressions after installation. before you ask, i will dyno only if i can find one nearby, and for a good price. if youre so inclined for proof, feel free to paypal me the expense
also, if all goes well, i plan to run the motor at 16.2 volts to increase its power to 1135 watts to increase boost pressure.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 14, 2006 - 1:04 AM

[lagos]

good luck

[Blakout16]

this should be interesting O.o if it does work, u might go lean.

[GT4WRC]

If you were that desperate to waste $300, you could have sent it to me. I'd have put it to far better use
Gary

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

You're not going to use the new filter? I really think you should. The stock box is very restrictive and does not pull in that cold of air. It's a simple set up once you look at it. Stock box sucks. Have you taken it apart before and looked at how it was getting it's air? I suggest doing this before leaving it. You can just buy a little bit of piping and run an open filter in your fender. But I really think the stock air box will choke this thing down.

[Boss-Celica]

Honestly I would like to see this thing work. Good luck.

[burneeed]

good luck.............

[sugarfree]

Will you need a BOV also?

This post has been edited by sugarfree: Feb 14, 2006 - 1:11 PM

[TheStreetzKing]

you realize if this works everyones gonna be buying em haha

[Celicaca]

good luck man. reveal the truth!

[celicaST]

good luck

thanks, hopefully i wont need it

this should be interesting O.o if it does work, u might go lean.

i thought about that but i doubt it will go lean because its not going to provide that much boost. im in colorado so any boost it does provide (they advertise 1 psi, but im guessing .5 to .8) will be well within the operating parameters of the ecu and injectors to handle (at a mile in elevation, air density is around 12.5% lower than at sea level anyways).

If you were that desperate to waste $300, you could have sent it to me. I'd have put it to far better use
Gary

damn i would have given it to you!! too late now no, actually, im not really doing this so much for myself. the main reason im doing it is for the community to see if it is a valuable product.

You're not going to use the new filter? I really think you should. The stock box is very restrictive and does not pull in that cold of air. It's a simple set up once you look at it. Stock box sucks. Have you taken it apart before and looked at how it was getting it's air? I suggest doing this before leaving it. You can just buy a little bit of piping and run an open filter in your fender. But I really think the stock air box will choke this thing down.

ive looked at the possiblities to install it, and the reason i chose this is for simplicity and performance. i did not want to get a short ram and intake hot air for obvious reasons. the eram fits perfect as to my measurements in that location. i will be buying a k&n replacement filter though as well. also, this way it will look stock, wont have to buy piping (except for a short section) or relocate IAT sensor. youre right though, a modified cold air intake, such as the dr.cai, would be the best option, however. i just want to get it in quickly. if it works as well as i hope, i will get a cai set-up and mount two erams inline.

Will you need a BOV also?

haha, no

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 14, 2006 - 4:22 PM

[CelicaSTX02]

How are you planning to prove to people if this thing does work? Are you saying people should just take your word for it or are you gonna show some testing results (i.e dyno tests, videos or your runs w/ and w/out the eram, or g-tech testings).

[Predator]

why would he lie about such a thing anyways? it would only result in someone else buying the thing and be pissed and dissappointed when it doesn't live up to his expectations

[celicaST]

How are you planning to prove to people if this thing does work? Are you saying people should just take your word for it or are you gonna show some testing results (i.e dyno tests, videos or your runs w/ and w/out the eram, or g-tech testings).

good question, although i would hope people would take my word for it, i know thats not the case. im not working for eracing and i wouldnt want anybody else to waster 300 bucks if thats what happens to me. i will look for a dyno around here, but i wont if it its too much of an inconvenience, im not here to please everyone else i will post speedometer videos of it disconnected/connected, and my review will be detailed. again im not expecting drastic performance increase, however, i believe for 300 bucks it will produce more gains than exhaust, headers, intake would. anybody coming to the colorado meet can try it for themselves (hopefully by then ill be running it at 16.2volts and 1135 watts). i dont have a g-tech. i will make an effort to get a dyno done, because im interested in the actual results myself.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Check your 0-60 and 0-100 time now. And then check it again after you put the eram on. Buy a stop watch and have a friend watch your speedometer. This isn't the most accurate, but it will do something. The 0-100 should give us the best messurement. Make sure you test in the same place each time. Might want to do about 3 runs to make sure they're reliable. Like I said, it's not the best way, but it will tell you something.

[presure2]

from the eram website N/A mr2 (more than likely 5sfe)

my car with just the injen short ram with heatsheild.

[CheesyLobster]

I don't doubt that it wont work if the fan is of good quality. You won't need to worry about leanness at 1 psi. Like Manny showed, id expect about 5 hp.

Btw, that hooks into your tps and adjusts its power, right?

This post has been edited by CheesyLobster: Feb 14, 2006 - 8:25 PM

[celicaST]

I don't doubt that it wont work if the fan is of good quality. You won't need to worry about leanness at 1 psi. Like Manny showed, id expect about 5 hp.

Btw, that hooks into your tps and adjusts its power, right?

yes as long as the fan doesnt allow significant backflow and the motor is powerful, it will work. it does connect to the TPS, but it doesnt adjust power. the motor only turns on at WOT. it draws 60amps when its on so it can only be on during bursts to prevent overheating and draining the battery. manny do you have a dyno of you car without the injen? i assume both those runs were with it on.

by the way, should be here by next week sometime. im going to run some tests on it while its out of car before i install it.

[lagos]

from the eram website N/A mr2 (more than likely 5sfe)

my car with just the injen short ram with heatsheild.

for anyone not paying attention to the dyno sheet. the eram dyno lost about 10 hp compared to mannys bone stock 5sfe

[Batman722]

the moral of the story is this...

the 5s (MR2) is at 104.2 hp to the wheels stock
the eram added a +3.2 hp for a total of 107.4

Manny had his 5s dynoed (before the turbo) and he was at 114.6 and 115.1 hp (with only and Injen SR intake and stock cali-spec exhaust which has 2 cats).

anyway, $300 for 3 hp ? about $100 per pony. A swap with an average cost of $4000, starting out at 105 hp and ending up with about 190hp = about $47 per pony.

edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Batman722: Feb 14, 2006 - 10:08 PM

[97lestyousay]

I think a guy could make a 12 volt converted hard drive motor with
a fan that would do more that that. I have made air sample
centrifuges in a similar manner. A different impeller would have to be used.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

for anyone not paying attention to the dyno sheet. the eram dyno lost about 10 hp compared to mannys bone stock 5sfe

Something not mentioned, is that Manny dynoed at the highest hp, I personally, have ever seen on an almost stock 5sfe. Some one else dynoed a 5sfe not but a couple weeks ago with the same numbers as the e-ram people.

[BlackSTX]

I wonder how well it would work WITH an intake/header/exhaust. Since those mods normally don't do all that much on our engines, maybe this would help get our money's worth out of those.

[snapshotgt]

Celica St, i don't know why you posted this new thread before you got it installed/dyno...it will only invoke people to "diss" the eram more...

[lilsteeg]

I don't doubt that it wont work if the fan is of good quality. You won't need to worry about leanness at 1 psi. Like Manny showed, id expect about 5 hp.

Btw, that hooks into your tps and adjusts its power, right?

i guessed the same thing using simple math and knowledge http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33592&st=60

[lilsteeg]

you know what every1 is forgetting to mention, this is drawing power, which dosent come from no where, this thing takes away hp to run, like a supercharger except it dosent produce as much boost. a turbo dosent use any mechanical power to run it uses already flowing gases, i wouldnt spend $300 on 3hp, but what ever floats your boat

[celicaST]

ok i get back from my vday date, and this is the crap i come back to. come on where is the love?
but seriously, i dont know where to start. by the way, i made the words in my first post bold and big for a reason, obviously some of you guys have trouble showing a little respect.

from the eram website N/A mr2 (more than likely 5sfe)

my car with just the injen short ram with heatsheild.

for anyone not paying attention to the dyno sheet. the eram dyno lost about 10 hp compared to mannys bone stock 5sfe

ok, i asked manny if he had a dyno of his car before the intake. why did i ask? because his dyno post, although is impressive, is meaningless without a previous dyno. it doesnt show what he gained because we dont know what he started with, unless he does have a dyno. we cant assume that his 5sfe put the same hp to the wheels as the mr2 did stock. first of all, theyre not even the same model, and second they arent the same exact car! not all 6g gt's (and certainly not all 5sfe's on all platforms) are going to put down the same hp. engine maintenance can have alot to do with power generated. second, lets assume manny's injen intake did gain more overall hp than the eram did. i bet you it didnt produce more hp and trq at all rpms like the eram did. and im sure you know, that it is the integral of power versus time that will determine how fast your car accelerates. how often are you at max hp when your racing? a split second. so without a previoius dyno before manny installed his intake, his results are meaningless to compare with, although impressive.

the moral of the story is this...

the 5s (MR2) is at 104.2 hp to the wheels stock
the eram added a +3.2 hp for a total of 107.4

Manny had his 5s dynoed (before the turbo) and he was at 114.6 and 115.1 hp (with only and Injen SR intake and stock cali-spec exhaust which has 2 cats).

anyway, $300 for 3 hp ? about $100 per pony. A swap with an average cost of $4000, starting out at 105 hp and ending up with about 190hp = about $47 per pony.

edit: spelling

read above^ max hp isnt everything. other dynos with eram have shown much better results. read the s3 magazine review of it on the civic for example. s3 review on 95 civic, the gains on the civic were 6.7hp (8.8%) with gains of about 10hp at ceratin rpms. and also note these gains were OVER and ABOVE what the short ram and high flow filter provided, that the civic already had. it was especially helpful at high rpms. your math is sound in second part, but you forgot a crucial point. not all of us want to put 4k into our cars at the moment. some of us are looking for cheaper, easier ways to get modest gains.

I think a guy could make a 12 volt converted hard drive motor with
a fan that would do more that that. I have made air sample
centrifuges in a similar manner. A different impeller would have to be used.

hahahaha, if i wasnt so sick of trying to teach physics, i would answer this. all i can tell you is this, go look at a hard drive fan, how many amps does it draw? not even close to being powerful enough, can a hd fan do this? pushing a fire log vs 2hp leaf blower

Celica St, i don't know why you posted this new thread before you got it installed/dyno...it will only invoke people to "diss" the eram more...

well with my first post, i thought some people could keep their opinion to themselves, but i was wrong.

you know what every1 is forgetting to mention, this is drawing power, which dosent come from no where, this thing takes away hp to run, like a supercharger except it dosent produce as much boost. a turbo dosent use any mechanical power to run it uses already flowing gases, i wouldnt spend $300 on 3hp, but what ever floats your boat

ok, the eram draws power from the battery, not the alternator. so when its on there is next to no parasitic losses incurred on the engine, not like a supercharger. also the energy used to run a turbine on the turbo isnt entirely free (althought it is more thermodynamically efficient than a supercharger), it does create backpressure.

now its obvious why manny and lagos make fun of it, because their cars are swapped and turbocharged. but what you 2 need to realize, is that there are plenty people on this site who, im guessing, would like to see this work. so, please from now on NO more, please. unless you like losing arguments, i warned you

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 15, 2006 - 12:46 AM

[lagos]

ok, the eram draws power from the battery, not the alternator. so when its on there is next to no parasitic losses incurred on the engine,

when the car is running, the battery and altinator work together. all electrical systems get power from the batter, and the battery gets constantly recharged by the altinator. so if you have more stuff hooked up (like car audio, the eram , etc) it will be more drain on the whole electrical system, including the altinator.

you have my blessing on this project (just cause its funny, lol) but remember to keep a totally open mind to it. cause so far it sounds like you totally expect it to work and give you gains.

[celicaST]

ok, the eram draws power from the battery, not the alternator. so when its on there is next to no parasitic losses incurred on the engine,

when the car is running, the battery and altinator work together. all electrical systems get power from the batter, and the battery gets constantly recharged by the altinator. so if you have more stuff hooked up (like car audio, the eram , etc) it will be more drain on the whole electrical system, including the altinator.

you have my blessing on this project (just cause its funny, lol) but remember to keep a totally open mind to it. cause so far it sounds like you totally expect it to work and give you gains.

i know the battery and alt work together, but the alt doesnt provide 60amps to recharge the battery, which is why i said NEXT to no parasitic losses.

ok it might be funny. and dont you worry, although i do expect a certain result, i will be fully unbiased in my review. im a mechanical engineer, and it seems highly plausible to me that this should work, and i bought it hoping it will (i wouldnt have put down 300 bucks if i didnt think it would). but like any true scientist (who always have a guess of the result of an experiment), i will report what i get. its the results that matter. but, even if this particular product doesnt provide what im looking for (even after i power it a 16.2v), rest assured me and my brother are working on a setup that will

[playr158]

upgrade the alternator then....

but nitrous oxide....300$ for 75shot? thats about 4$ a hp? or so

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 15, 2006 - 1:06 AM

[celicaST]

upgrade the alternator then....

there is no need to for a intermittent setup.

"but nitrous oxide....300$ for 75shot? thats about 4$ a hp? or so"

true, but must be hooked up properly or we all know what can happen. also, its nice not to have to refill a tank.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 15, 2006 - 1:09 AM

[lagos]

im a mechanical engineer, and it seems highly plausible to me that this should work

why didnt you build one youself instead of buying one? isint that what mechanical engineers do?

[celicaST]

im a mechanical engineer, and it seems highly plausible to me that this should work

why didnt you build one youself instead of buying one? isint that what mechanical engineers do?

uh oh, is that a cheap shot buddy, because it sounds like one

well i take it you missed "rest assured me and my brother are working on a setup that will"

actually, we mechanical engineers desgin things, the machinists and other people build them. but i love building things (and taking things apart ) and now that im certified to use the machine shop here on campus, i take full advantage of it (not always for school purposes ). nothing like having "free" access to vertical mills, metal lathes, cnc mills, saws, welding equipment (although i suck at welding), were even getting a water jet cnc soon to answer your question, the reason im buying the eram now is because if theres one thing about me its that if im going to do something such as build a setup, i want to do it right. what a lot of people fail to realize is the HUGE amount of engineering and design that goes into products (which is why ive learned to greatly appreciate good engineering, such that toyota does). just with our relatively simple setup, we have to worry about many factor such as the duty cycle of ultracapacitor setup, the loads that will be placed on motor, and other problems faced with turbo setups. i dont want it to break after i put it in, or be inoperable. it will take time to develop it to where i want it to be (especially with school, 6gc, and girl eating my time), and we want to use off the shelf parts which makes it harder. and in the meantime, i thought this would be a fun, cheap thing to do. saw the idea posted in the other thread, and after searching i found this to be the only one that even had a chance. and also if it works, all the better

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 15, 2006 - 2:27 AM

[GT4WRC]

from the eram website N/A mr2 (more than likely 5sfe)

my car with just the injen short ram with heatsheild.

I wouldn't believe anything that has been posted on their own website. After all, they want to sell these things right? What you want to see is a completely independent test. One done by someone who has no vested interest whatsoever.

The only way you are going to prove if this thing has any worth, is to dyno your car as is, then fit the new system and re-dyno. Has to be done under the same atmospheric conditions. Otherwise, it is worthless. Any change in performance on the road could be psychological. And it'd take more than 5hp for you to notice any worthwhile changes anyway. I stand by my convictions which I have had all along with the eRam. Total and utter waste of money. If it was so great, then why aren't more people using them - and even car manufacturers for that matter?
Gary

[rza619]

not trying to defend the eram or anything but that mr2 was most likely a older 5sfe with more miles while manny had a 98 that was in good condition. I bet if that mr2 that had the eram had a newer motor it whould most likely make the same numbers manny did or maybe even higher.

[Hanyo]

Why is everyone argueing about how it works? For all i know, no one here has done it. for a FACT, i know none of you guys know how much power lose comes from an alternator drain. So dont use that as an argument against the Eram. enough said about the alt, unless you know exactly the power lose and dyno proven.

secondly those dyno sheets dont prove much. I can get those gains in power by moving from LA to alaska. The air temperature, sea level, oxygen levels, equipment milage can make the car have an extra 15 hp. For instance a 400k miles old mr-2 in the desert at 130 degrees celcius vs a 2 miles mr-2 at -10 degrees. I know this as a Fact. So dont use the dyno sheets as a liable source for debate.

The ONLY thing that matters with this Eram system is the psi of boost at redline. If you can prove it provides at least 3 psi of boost at redline. Then this is a good upgrade. Dyno sheets will not do anything if the car is not tuned for the boost curve.

edit:spelling

This post has been edited by Hanyo: Feb 15, 2006 - 3:55 AM

[presure2]

guy, if you wanna talk area under the curve, i got that one covered too.
like dustin said, your basicly paying about 100$ per HP with the eram.
i spent about 3500 on my turbo kit, and thats spending in a LOT of places i didnt have to.

thats about a 90whp gain and 100+ft lbs...
that right there cost me basicly 35$ per hp...you tell me, which is more cost effective.
im sorry man, the e-ram is NOT gonna give you what a GOOD intake, header and exhaust is.

This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2006 - 5:36 AM

[Hanyo]

according to your math, he will only need to see a 9 hp gain to beat you. So if he gets 10hp will everyone stop disrepecting the Eram?

this is my math:

90hp/ $3500= .02571

this means every dollar you put in, it will give you .025 hp.


with 300 dollars you will get 7.7 hp.


So if the Eram can make 7.7 hp or more, it is better then a turbo in that price bracket.

Notice i said "price bracket"

I know this is not accurate at all. But just for a baseline test comparision.

remember a good I/H/E set-up will cost you more then 300 dollars.

* btw: i am not a fan of eram, i am here to make this thread interesting. FLAME AWAY!*

[lagos]

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

[presure2]

by your math
the eram is +3whp
3/300=.01
god this is like beating your head into a wall....i double dog dare you to post this on mr2oc...lmao..

This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2006 - 6:19 AM

[jgreening]

How are you planning to prove to people if this thing does work? Are you saying people should just take your word for it or are you gonna show some testing results (i.e dyno tests, videos or your runs w/ and w/out the eram, or g-tech testings).

good question, although i would hope people would take my word for it, i know thats not the case. im not working for eracing and i wouldnt want anybody else to waster 300 bucks if thats what happens to me. i will look for a dyno around here, but i wont if it its too much of an inconvenience, im not here to please everyone else i will post speedometer videos of it disconnected/connected, and my review will be detailed. again im not expecting drastic performance increase, however, i believe for 300 bucks it will produce more gains than exhaust, headers, intake would. anybody coming to the colorado meet can try it for themselves (hopefully by then ill be running it at 16.2volts and 1135 watts). i dont have a g-tech. i will make an effort to get a dyno done, because im interested in the actual results myself.

Take your word for it? Surely, you don't expect people to do that. You sound very knowledgable in the scientific method. Can you imagine a scientist saying "I just found the cure to cancer but I can't demonstrate it to you - just take this pill - its only $300"?

[Hanyo]

we have no proof it creates 3 hp.

for all i know, it might not even create any. so that is why its pointless argueing any further about eram, but to let our minds open on this topic.



This post has been edited by Hanyo: Feb 15, 2006 - 6:41 AM

[presure2]

you have no proof it creates 3 hp.

for all i know it might not even create any. so that is why its pointless argueing any further about eram, but to create our minds open on this topic.

what do you mean i have no proof? the dynosheet is right on the first page, taken right from the eram site.
and BTW, im not arguing, just providing information, so that before all the kids on this site look at this post and say OHHHH imma gain MAD tizight hp yo, they might think about it seriously for a minute.
i mean really. your BEARLY gonna even feel 3-4whp..hell, i can see a 3-5whp diffrence from RUN TO RUN on the dyno. with no changes.

[Hanyo]

i know about the dynosheets, i'm waiting for the eram to be fitted to the celica to draw my conclusions.
(Edit: i forgot to add) The reason why I am disreguarding the 3hp gain is because the mr2 was not tuned for he boost. If the Eram was tune, I'm sure we will see more then 3 hp.


but from a serious stand point: there is no way for eram to make 7.7 whp. With tranny efficeny loss, this eram has to pump out aleast 10+hp at the crank.

And we have to remember, with real turbos set up rpm increases with boost. With an eram, engine rpm increases and boost falls. And we are not factering in the cost of engine management to tune for the boost. The over all equipment cost will be around $700.

This post has been edited by Hanyo: Feb 15, 2006 - 7:06 AM

[presure2]

guy, do you "tune" your car when you put on an exhaust? or intake?
i mean really, how much can you "tune" for 3hp? LMAO
regardless whether its a celica or a mr2, the gains will be VERY close, if not the same.
ohh and BTW...if this thing actually did create "boost"
youd throw a code, and the car will run like junk, because of the map sensor.


This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2006 - 7:12 AM

[Hanyo]

kwanza put on bolt ons ( i/h/e)and tuned it. He got a decent time on the quartermile. I remeber something about this in one of his post.

so why cant you obtain higher hp numbers with some form of tuning, especially when there is boost invovled. The 5s ecu was not designed for boost, so tuning it will help it alot.

This post has been edited by Hanyo: Feb 15, 2006 - 7:20 AM

[Jeremy1210]

Take your word for it? Surely, you don't expect people to do that. You sound very knowledgable in the scientific method. Can you imagine a scientist saying "I just found the cure to cancer but I can't demonstrate it to you - just take this pill - its only $300"?

Give the scientists some credit. THey only develop/ make the things. Its the bastard marketing/ business people that sell it for $$$

[snapshotgt]

Just wait and see, pointless arguing is not going to show the dyno results, or how much he is spending per hp.

~snap

[celicaST]

wow, look at all this action i missed last night obviously none of you read what i have written twice now. that is too keep the debate out of this thread. or, im guessing you have read it, but have chosen to disrespect me. talk about some self-control.

guy, if you wanna talk area under the curve, i got that one covered too.
like dustin said, your basicly paying about 100$ per HP with the eram.
i spent about 3500 on my turbo kit, and thats spending in a LOT of places i didnt have to.

thats about a 90whp gain and 100+ft lbs...
that right there cost me basicly 35$ per hp...you tell me, which is more cost effective.
im sorry man, the e-ram is NOT gonna give you what a GOOD intake, header and exhaust is.

another impressive dyno, but absolutely no relavence to this topic.

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

stop it, please. youre embarrassing yourself. now before you reply that im embarrassing myself for buying this, stop and read all of my posts. this is for fun, and its just to see if this product works, and i intend to do so.

How are you planning to prove to people if this thing does work? Are you saying people should just take your word for it or are you gonna show some testing results (i.e dyno tests, videos or your runs w/ and w/out the eram, or g-tech testings).

good question, although i would hope people would take my word for it, i know thats not the case. im not working for eracing and i wouldnt want anybody else to waster 300 bucks if thats what happens to me. i will look for a dyno around here, but i wont if it its too much of an inconvenience, im not here to please everyone else i will post speedometer videos of it disconnected/connected, and my review will be detailed. again im not expecting drastic performance increase, however, i believe for 300 bucks it will produce more gains than exhaust, headers, intake would. anybody coming to the colorado meet can try it for themselves (hopefully by then ill be running it at 16.2volts and 1135 watts). i dont have a g-tech. i will make an effort to get a dyno done, because im interested in the actual results myself.

Take your word for it? Surely, you don't expect people to do that. You sound very knowledgable in the scientific method. Can you imagine a scientist saying "I just found the cure to cancer but I can't demonstrate it to you - just take this pill - its only $300"?

jay, thats why i said "i know thats not the case." trust me, i will document my results the best way i can, and i will post all data i have collected before i post my personal impressions.

you have no proof it creates 3 hp.

for all i know it might not even create any. so that is why its pointless argueing any further about eram, but to create our minds open on this topic.

what do you mean i have no proof? the dynosheet is right on the first page, taken right from the eram site.
and BTW, im not arguing, just providing information, so that before all the kids on this site look at this post and say OHHHH imma gain MAD tizight hp yo, they might think about it seriously for a minute.
i mean really. your BEARLY gonna even feel 3-4whp..hell, i can see a 3-5whp diffrence from RUN TO RUN on the dyno. with no changes.

guy, do you "tune" your car when you put on an exhaust? or intake?
i mean really, how much can you "tune" for 3hp? LMAO
regardless whether its a celica or a mr2, the gains will be VERY close, if not the same.
ohh and BTW...if this thing actually did create "boost"
youd throw a code, and the car will run like junk, because of the map sensor.

first of all, the significance of a 3hp gain depends on the car at hand. 3hp on a 7afe is going to be felt more as a change than an enzo. so in other words, its the percentage gain that matters. and remember, a 3-5hp gain at all rpms is quite different than a 3-5 hp spike at a certain rpm. now, i know 3hp isnt going to be a big difference one way or the other. however, we dont know what it will produce, so lets quit arguing. please just respect my thread, you are a grown man, and wait until i post results.

*also, remember im in colorado, which is one of the reasons im more confident in buying it. because the air density is already 12.5% lower than at sea level, any boost this does create will be well with the ecus data map.

Just wait and see, pointless arguing is not going to show the dyno results, or how much he is spending per hp.

~snap

exactly.

This post has been edited by celicaST: Feb 15, 2006 - 11:25 AM

[Defgeph]

I can not believe this thread. I'm kinda of insulted that this would be even considered forced induction. This little tin foil fan is pointless. If you want to see the same gains just buy a cat back exhaust. That will proably give you twice as much HP this sheet metal fan would alone.

Make your own cold air intake, thats where you'll see some noticable gains.


Two parts you are going to need for this project to run right.

Part 1

Part 2

Then you'll be official.

Dont waste your money on a dyno or this plastic fan. Put it towards good use, like mentioned above. The money you would spend on this whole endeavour, you would already own I/H/E.

I cant believe some of you think this is a viable option.

[playr158]

MWAHHAHAHA i love that jeff!

[tim86]

i love it how all the 3sgte/turbo guys are math wizards and provide countless dyno sheets to discourage the man from even trying it for the community... he said its for fun, and he has already spent money on it. I find it interesting and I cant wait to see how it works out for you celicaST.

[celicaST]

I can not believe this thread. I'm kinda of insulted that this would be even considered forced induction. This little tin foil fan is pointless. If you want to see the same gains just buy a cat back exhaust. That will proably give you twice as much HP this sheet metal fan would alone.

Make your own cold air intake, thats where you'll see some noticable gains.


Two parts you are going to need for this project to run right.

Part 1

Part 2

Then you'll be official.

Dont waste your money on a dyno or this plastic fan. Put it towards good use, like mentioned above. The money you would spend on this whole endeavour, you would already own I/H/E.

I cant believe some of you think this is a viable option.

dear god, now you too. have your read this whole thread yet? or did you just come yap in and post your opinion? like i said, its easy for you who have swapped or turboed to disregard it because you have no interest if it works or not. was that another cheap shot with those two links? real mature, ill let it slide though. its your opinion that im wasting my money. its 300 bucks, big deal. is it so hard to keep your opinion to yourself? i will be very disappointed if this gets locked, especially since it was mainly you, the moderators that disrespected my request, and began arguing. this thread, although its your opinion that it is not a valuable product, is still a valuable thread because i will post results.

i love it how all the 3sgte/turbo guys are math wizards and provide countless dyno sheets to discourage the man from even trying it for the community... he said its for fun, and he has already spent money on it. I find it interesting and I cant wait to see how it works out for you celicaST.

thank you.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I didn't think this was a debate thread. I thought it was just a info on his project thread. I understand that some of the posts on both sides have good arguements, but some are just there to simply irritate. I'm skeptic about this thing working, and about it not working. The math seems to be there, and the only way to settle it, is for celicaST to put it on his car and see how it turns out. I don't think there is much room for talk except to wish him good luck and incurage him to get to a dyno to prove all results.

Please clean this thread, but do not lock it. I want to know if it works or not. I need proff from a person who's tried it and not just the e-ram site.

[celicaST]

I didn't think this was a debate thread. I thought it was just a info on his project thread. I understand that some of the posts on both sides have good arguements, but some are just there to simply irritate. I'm skeptic about this thing working, and about it not working. The math seems to be there, and the only way to settle it, is for celicaST to put it on his car and see how it turns out. I don't think there is much room for talk except to wish him good luck and incurage him to get to a dyno to prove all results.

Please clean this thread, but do not lock it. I want to know if it works or not. I need proff from a person who's tried it and not just the e-ram site.

thank you, and dont worry, i will try to get a dyno. please, everybody, no more until i get it in my hands and begin testing.

[Defgeph]

I did read this entire thread, I've kept a tight lip until now. I'm not trying to bash you, just trying to open your eyes. The reason I posted those two links is because they work just as well as this eram. And it was a joke Be easy brother.

It doesnt matter what engine I have, I still want to see improvements, other methods of creating power. For all our engines. This product is not worth the money, period. We know its not worth it, thats why we are trying to tell you not to go through with this.

here are the two scenarios:

One:
You come back with it installed, get everybody excited cause the ass dyno felt some extra pep. Other members start buying this product, install it. Then they come back yelling at you, because this thing is garbage and does not work.


Two:
You come back and say damn you guys are right this thing didnt do jack. What a waste of money.

I highly doubt you'll come back with number 2, I for see this as scenario number 1. Which I hope is not the case. The moral of my posts today. I understand what you are trying to do, thats great. Your money is better spent on I/H/E.

[WannabeGT4]

I'm with Jeff on this one. If you don't have a before and after dyno, you won't be proving anything.

[Defgeph]

I'm with Jeff on this one. If you don't have a before and after dyno, you won't be proving anything.

Exactly what I'm saying.

[celicaST]

I did read this entire thread, I've kept a tight lip until now. I'm not trying to bash you, just trying to open your eyes. The reason I posted those two links is because they work just as well as this eram. And it was a joke Be easy brother.

It doesnt matter what engine I have, I still want to see improvements, other methods of creating power. For all our engines. This product is not worth the money, period. We know its not worth it, thats why we are trying to tell you not to go through with this.

here are the two scenarios:

One:
You come back with it installed, get everybody excited cause the ass dyno felt some extra pep. Other members start buying this product, install it. Then they come back yelling at you, because this thing is garbage and does not work.


Two:
You come back and say damn you guys are right this thing didnt do jack. What a waste of money.

I highly doubt you'll come back with number 2, I for see this as scenario number 1. Which I hope is not the case. The moral of my posts today. I understand what you are trying to do, thats great. Your money is better spent on I/H/E.

trust me, i dont need any help opening my eyes k

"We know its not worth it, thats why we are trying to tell you not to go through with this."
unless you show me proof, thats just as bad as saying "we know it IS worth it." without proof, i have to assume thats your opinon speaking.

One: you obviously dont know the manner im going to report. i said i will post all DATA before my personal impressions, and those impressions will be detailed. i wont just say "wow that thing kicked ass, go buy one!"

Two: if this happens (which is a possibility ive looked at), so be it. this is a TEST for a reason, because i dont know what the results will be. but 300 bucks isnt that much, and it doesnt hurt anybody here at all, just myself.

[Supersprynt]

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

I personally love the "rules of this thread." How are you gonna come in and talk about something I use on my desk at home and not stir up debate?

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 15, 2006 - 11:50 AM

[Defgeph]

two more questions.

What you you going to use to document the data ? How are you going to test this to find the facts ?

[celicaST]

I'm with Jeff on this one. If you don't have a before and after dyno, you won't be proving anything.

did you read what i will do? i said i will try to get a dyno both before, and one after. if i can find one nearby for good price heres how it will go: before dyno will have two runs, one as it is now, and one with k/n replacement filter. after dyno will have two runs, one with it connected, one with it disconnected. also, i WILL post speedometer videos of my car at WOT on the same stretch of road both disconnected/connected. and hopefully, although not in near future, i will make it to the track to post 1/4mile times (most likely in the summer).

[WannabeGT4]

I did read this entire thread, I've kept a tight lip until now. I'm not trying to bash you, just trying to open your eyes. The reason I posted those two links is because they work just as well as this eram. And it was a joke Be easy brother.

It doesnt matter what engine I have, I still want to see improvements, other methods of creating power. For all our engines. This product is not worth the money, period. We know its not worth it, thats why we are trying to tell you not to go through with this.

here are the two scenarios:

One:
You come back with it installed, get everybody excited cause the ass dyno felt some extra pep. Other members start buying this product, install it. Then they come back yelling at you, because this thing is garbage and does not work.


Two:
You come back and say damn you guys are right this thing didnt do jack. What a waste of money.

I highly doubt you'll come back with number 2, I for see this as scenario number 1. Which I hope is not the case. The moral of my posts today. I understand what you are trying to do, thats great. Your money is better spent on I/H/E.

trust me, i dont need any help opening my eyes k

"We know its not worth it, thats why we are trying to tell you not to go through with this."
unless you show me proof, thats just as bad as saying "we know it IS worth it." without proof, i have to assume thats your opinon speaking.

One: you obviously dont know the manner im going to report. i said i will post all DATA before my personal impressions, and those impressions will be detailed. i wont just say "wow that thing kicked ass, go buy one!"

Two: if this happens (which is a possibility ive looked at), so be it. this is a TEST for a reason, because i dont know what the results will be. but 300 bucks isnt that much, and it doesnt hurt anybody here at all, just myself.

What knid of data are you going to have? Aren't we debating the performance aspect of this device? Isn't a dyno the only real way to measure that? Didn't you say you would only dyno it if you could find one near by? The only other relevant data would be miles per gallon but that's not really what I thought we were debating.

[Supersprynt]

Theres to many variables in your before an after testing. Buy a single dyno session and do a couple runs with it on and off. On road testing is worthless theres too many differences in your driving and atmospheric conditions.

[Defgeph]

Theres to many variables in your before an after testing. Buy a single dyno session and do a couple runs with it on and off. On road testing is worthless theres too many differences in your driving and atmospheric conditions.

Agreed. One dyno session and put this to rest.

[celicaST]

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

I personally love the "rules of this thread." How are you gonna come in and talk about something I use on my desk at home and not stir up debate?

well i overestimated the self control of some people. i know there is a debate, but i wanted this thread to be purely informative because theres another thread with the debate. i thought we could continue debate in one thread and have one for testing a product.

[WannabeGT4]

I'm with Jeff on this one. If you don't have a before and after dyno, you won't be proving anything.

did you read what i will do? i said i will try to get a dyno both before, and one after. if i can find one nearby for good price heres how it will go: before dyno will have two runs, one as it is now, and one with k/n replacement filter. after dyno will have two runs, one with it connected, one with it disconnected. also, i WILL post speedometer videos of my car at WOT on the same stretch of road both disconnected/connected. and hopefully, although not in near future, i will make it to the track to post 1/4mile times (most likely in the summer).

Trying to get dyno time is different than actually doing it. I was making a point that without the dyno you're just wasting time and money. If you really want to prove something you WILL need dyno runs.

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

I personally love the "rules of this thread." How are you gonna come in and talk about something I use on my desk at home and not stir up debate?

well i overestimated the self control of some people. i know there is a debate, but i wanted this thread to be purely informative because theres another thread with the debate. i thought we could continue debate in one thread and have one for testing a product.

We flame because we care.

[celicaST]

Theres to many variables in your before an after testing. Buy a single dyno session and do a couple runs with it on and off. On road testing is worthless theres too many differences in your driving and atmospheric conditions.

i know theres variables between before and after testing, however i wanted to roughly compare it to what i have now and what gains a kn filter produce alone. im not going to take the eram on and off at one dyno run if thats what you want. i did say i will run it powered/unpowered at one dyno session. that will be the dyno your looking for.

[celicaST]

I'm with Jeff on this one. If you don't have a before and after dyno, you won't be proving anything.

did you read what i will do? i said i will try to get a dyno both before, and one after. if i can find one nearby for good price heres how it will go: before dyno will have two runs, one as it is now, and one with k/n replacement filter. after dyno will have two runs, one with it connected, one with it disconnected. also, i WILL post speedometer videos of my car at WOT on the same stretch of road both disconnected/connected. and hopefully, although not in near future, i will make it to the track to post 1/4mile times (most likely in the summer).

Trying to get dyno time is different than actually doing it. I was making a point that without the dyno you're just wasting time and money. If you really want to prove something you WILL need dyno runs.

i got some math for you


Eram + Celica = Slow Car

I personally love the "rules of this thread." How are you gonna come in and talk about something I use on my desk at home and not stir up debate?

well i overestimated the self control of some people. i know there is a debate, but i wanted this thread to be purely informative because theres another thread with the debate. i thought we could continue debate in one thread and have one for testing a product.

We flame because we care.

ok ok thanks for caring lol. as for your comments about trying vs getting a dyno. if you read what i wrote before, i said i will make an effort to get a dyno (trust me, i want to see the numbers myself). however, my primary concern isnt to please you guys. again, i will post WOT speedo runs (which in my opinon is valuable evidence).

[Supersprynt]

I think theres too many confounding variables in your analysis for you to have any internal or external validity. What I'd personally like to see is stock setup, a regular short ram, and then this thiggamajigg using the same filter. Then you will have a control.

[celicaST]

I think theres too many confounding variables in your analysis for you to have any internal or external validity. What I'd personally like to see is stock setup, a regular short ram, and then this thiggamajigg using the same filter. Then you will have a control.

i dont think you understand how exactly i want to test it. i know how to run an experiment, trust me. now im starting to think i shouldnt have posted this topic until i got it in my hands ok, im done posting in this thread until i get it and begin testing.

[Supersprynt]

If you know how to run an experiment then run it properly. Dyno testing it with it powered/unpowered is worthless because its still in there and now creating an obtrusion to airflow. Nobody cares what it does unpowered, people would be interested in its gain powered vs. a short ram & CAI. If your going to run bogus tests like what MPH I am at mile-marker 88 then this entire experiment is a waste of time.

[lagos]

this is just sad. sad that people know so little about cars that they will belive just about any claims a business will make. this is just like the "tornado" or some type of fuel line magnet that claims to save gas or the daily emails about pills that will make my penis larger. these things just dont work, plain and simple.

i know that a lot of you guys think .... " it will work! the swpers/turbo guys on here just think they are better then us". this is not the case at all, "we flame because we care". i dont want to see all of you guys wasting your hard earned money on this scam . go out and get an intake, exhaust, underdrive pully, light flywheel, timing advance, weight reduction, suspension, larger throttle body, etc... make the NA celica all it can be through proven methods instead of buying into scams on the internet.

[lilsteeg]

this is just sad. sad that people know so little about cars that they will belive just about any claims a business will make. this is just like the "tornado" or some type of fuel line magnet that claims to save gas or the daily emails about pills that will make my penis larger. these things just dont work, plain and simple.

so you know this because you have tried those penis pills, ha ha but all you said is true

[Supersprynt]

Those pills work, so stfu.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

this is just like the "tornado" or some type of fuel line magnet that claims to save gas or the daily emails about pills that will make my penis larger.

so u've tried? hahah sorry art i couldnt resist!

Those pills work, so stfu.

lol some of u guys on here scare me sometimes

bboy

[lilsteeg]

this is just like the "tornado" or some type of fuel line magnet that claims to save gas or the daily emails about pills that will make my penis larger.

so u've tried? hahah sorry art i couldnt resist!

Those pills work, so stfu.

lol some of u guys on here scare me sometimes

bboy

most of the people here scare me

[Cutrara]

this is my math:

90hp/ $3500= .02571

this means every dollar you put in, it will give you .025 hp.

You need to divide $3500/90hp.

$38.88 dollars yields 1 HP.

I believe the Numbers are:
E-ram
$100/HP

3S-GTE Swap
$47/HP

Properly tuned 5S-FTE
$38.88/HP

[celicaST]

man every time i get back from class, someone has to start it up again

i said no more but just had to resond to some nonsense. ok last post, and then im requesting a lock.

If you know how to run an experiment then run it properly. Dyno testing it with it powered/unpowered is worthless because its still in there and now creating an obtrusion to airflow. Nobody cares what it does unpowered, people would be interested in its gain powered vs. a short ram & CAI. If your going to run bogus tests like what MPH I am at mile-marker 88 then this entire experiment is a waste of time.

haha so let me get this straight. you want me to put on and take off a sri, cai, and the eram and take multiple dynos of them all at one dyno session. sorry aint gunna happen. but lets face it. no matter what results i get or how well i collect my data, its not going to convince you, lagos, manny, or anybody else that is so close-minded. being skeptical is ok (in fact its a necessary and great quality to have), but those who discount an idea before its been tested arent ever going to accept anything besides what they know. hell im still skeptical if it will work. thats why im TESTING it. take jay, its obvious hes very skeptical, but he appears to have an open mind about it. the rest of you are spouting your opinions as fact, and are already trying to discount any results i come up with.

now here was my dyno plan, take it or leave it. two trips to dyno:

1st session: run A-run my stock setup as is; run B- run my stock setup with kn replacement filter

tada, one variable

2nd session: run C- eram intalled (turned off) with kn filter; run D- eram installed (turned on) with kn filter

tada again, one variable between B and C, and one between D and C, and one between D and B. if you think about it, those 4 runs could provide a lot of info (for example, B vs C would show restriction of eram installed, B vs D would show relative improvement eram gained over the kn filter)

now i know they wouldnt be at the same time so atmospheric conditions would change a bit, but thats the best i could do without extra effort or a lot of runs (=money) to please you. but im sure its not good enough for you

this is just sad. sad that people know so little about cars that they will belive just about any claims a business will make. this is just like the "tornado" or some type of fuel line magnet that claims to save gas or the daily emails about pills that will make my penis larger. these things just dont work, plain and simple.

i know that a lot of you guys think .... " it will work! the swpers/turbo guys on here just think they are better then us". this is not the case at all, "we flame because we care". i dont want to see all of you guys wasting your hard earned money on this scam . go out and get an intake, exhaust, underdrive pully, light flywheel, timing advance, weight reduction, suspension, larger throttle body, etc... make the NA celica all it can be through proven methods instead of buying into scams on the internet.

you just wont stop will ya? you know whats really sad? how some of you who have swapped makes you think you know everything about how cars work. anybody can save 5k and swap. granted, you do know about the details of the 6g than me. but since you implied that i "know so little about cars," let me say that i can almost guarantee ive forgotten more about machine design and operation than youve ever known bud. you dont "flame because you care" you flame because you want everybody to think youre right. like i said, everytime you say you KNOW it doesnt work without proof thats just as bad as someone saying they KNOW it works without proof. by the way, dont compare this to the tornado or penis pills lol.

by the way, heres a thought experiment for you. what if you had a great idea for a product of some sort and you wanted to market it. lets say your product did something different that most people werent familar with. now with a market full of products that are scams, how would you market it to show people it works. its tough.

[presure2]

just for clarification, i never bashed on you, or said it "wouldnt" work.
i simply posted dynocharts right off the site, and my own dynocharts.
if it works or not is not the debate im trying to make.
my point is that your much better off spending the 300$ on somthing else.
or better yet, heres a freebee:
run good gas (IE: 91 octane or better) and advance your timing 2 degrees to 12, and youll get better, more consistant gains from that then youll ever get from the eram.

locked by request

This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2006 - 6:11 PM