built 3sge or beams Options

[lumbercis]

I was wondering. If I wanted to build an all-motor 3sge, is there actually much advantage using a Beams motor as the base rather than a regular 3sge? Would there really be much hp advantage to justify the extra cost, assuming that you would be changing much of the engine internals anyway? I know the Beams has VVTL, which is to it's advantage, but would that really be so much of an advantage if you would be using aggressive cams on the 3sge anyway?

Basically, if you had X amount of money, could you get farther with the Beams and light mods, or a 3sge with heavier mods?

J.

[Kwanza26]

If you were REALLY gonna build it up... as in opening up the motor from top to bottom... there would be no reason for the beams (considering cost and time). These engines all basically work on the same principle and considering they're basically the same thing, at a highly tuned stage, one isn't gonna make significantly more power than the other.

Also... the BEAMS has VVT-i... not VVTL. It holds NO real advantage on a highly tuned motor.

[frosty]

Is this motor going to be for a simple drag car or daily driven?

If for pure drag I would just go with the 3s-ge (asuming you already have it) It would make more sense to me.

If it's going for the daily driver then I might consider the beams for the use of the "in town" driving.

just my 2 cents

[lumbercis]

^So the Beams would just give you more low-end drivability because of the VVT-i?

J.

PS Whats the best hp thats ever been made on a 3sge and/or Beams?

[Kwanza26]

^So the Beams would just give you more low-end drivability because of the VVT-i?

Both are fine. Beams makes slightly more power because of compression and has a pretty red valve cover.

PS Whats the best hp thats ever been made on a 3sge and/or Beams?

Race versions around 300hp n/a... but be realistic here.

[lumbercis]

^ Maybe I should put it this way, How much has been made by a non-professional tuner/hobbyist? Or what would be a realistic goal for a "high horsepower" na build?

J.

[Kwanza26]

^ Maybe I should put it this way, How much has been made by a non-professional tuner/hobbyist? Or what would be a realistic goal for a "high horsepower" na build?

J.

I'd say 220-240 or so crank hp is reasonable (3rd gen and BEAMS respectively)... but it's expensive to reach. You gotta open up the motor from top to bottom and retune that sucker. Also, the ACIS intake manifolds have GOT TO GO!

[Boss-Celica]

An off topic question, but how many red top beams are in america?
A few would know why I might be asking this.

[Kwanza26]

An off topic question, but how many red top beams are in america?
A few would know why I might be asking this.

I know of 2 AE86's with redtops... but no Celicas...

[CelicaZR]

Outsider has a 3sge beams in his car.
Not sure if he is in America though.

[Boss-Celica]

Outsider has a 3sge beams in his car.
Not sure if he is in America though.

Hes in Canada

This post has been edited by Boss-Celica: Feb 16, 2006 - 11:29 PM

[yungazzdriver]

ur da coolest

[lumbercis]

I'd say 220-240 or so crank hp is reasonable (3rd gen and BEAMS respectively)... but it's expensive to reach. You gotta open up the motor from top to bottom and retune that sucker. Also, the ACIS intake manifolds have GOT TO GO!

Whats that at the wheels? maybe 185-205? (assuming about 15% drivetrain loss). What can you reach if you don't touch the bottom end and just get a PnP and some cams with the standard bolt-ons?

Is the idea that a Beams is close to "maxed out" already so its difficult to squeeze more hp out of it? Ive heard this in relation to other highly tuned factory engines like the Integra Type R and S2000 engines.

Thanks, I appreciate your input!

J.

[Hanyo]

the beams engine is pretty much optimized from the factory, so if you want to squeeze more hp out of it you will need to tune everything.

This means you have to balance the crank. And that means opening up the bottom end.

[maikl]

if you are going for first stage performance go for the beams i thing you will be very happy with your choice BUT if for a full rebuild there is no reason to get the beams wich is more expensive.. but have in mind that beams has as stock much bigger in.manifold and 4 coils as well as a bigger throttle bodie..

This post has been edited by maikl: Feb 18, 2006 - 1:34 PM