st engine upgrades? Options

[hashmaster52]

ive looked a little bit and havent found any (and im not sure if there even are any) engine upgrades for the 7afe. are there? cams or anything to boost up the power even a little?

[Bitter]

theres not much you can do to a totaly stock engine.

im getting a $100 ebay header tomorrow and have advanced my timing a little, K&N drop in, changed the stock intake slightly, all of it has a small cumulative effect. for the $50 of parts on the car currently ive probably gained as much as people get with an intake and an exhaust, maybe a little more.

[hashmaster52]

theres not much you can do to a totaly stock engine.

im getting a $100 ebay header tomorrow and have advanced my timing a little, K&N drop in, changed the stock intake slightly, all of it has a small cumulative effect.

sorry if this sounds dumb, but what is it when you advance your timing and how do you do it?

[madmods]

100hp instantly= 100 shot of nitrous

[95CelicaST]

100hp instantly= 100 shot of nitrous

Then the ST would have a whopping 100hp.

There have been many-a-threads on this topic. A 93-97 corolla header can be modified to fit (make sure it is a 1.8). have an exhaust shop build you a 2.25" exhaust system. You can make your own intake out of some piping and couplers and a K&N filter. No one makes cams for our car, but you can have the stock ones altered to add some hp. I'm not too sure about cam gears. I know a guy who has aftermarket cams on his 7A corolla, but I never found out where they are from.

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Apr 14, 2006 - 1:57 AM

[nik]

THIS IS THE MOST YOU COULD DO WITH A 7AFE WELL THE BOTTOM END



This post has been edited by nik: Apr 14, 2006 - 12:18 PM

[Bitter]

theres not much you can do to a totaly stock engine.

im getting a $100 ebay header tomorrow and have advanced my timing a little, K&N drop in, changed the stock intake slightly, all of it has a small cumulative effect.

sorry if this sounds dumb, but what is it when you advance your timing and how do you do it?

search the internet learn for yourself because you learn nothing when the asnwers are handed to you.

[lilsteeg]

you can get a flywheel, and some underdrive pullys

[nik]

there are a few things you can do if you go the N/A route but your gains are only going to be small a horse here and there

pulleys obx and ARP
fuel rail
msd stuff
header
greddy exhaust
intake
cam gear obx
p&p
the list goes on but remember you are doing this to a eco motor this is the point where you have to think should i swap or dump money into a eco motor

if you only want to do a few things than fine if your looking for a big gain go turbo

if you want a bigger gain than swap

[nowitzon]

how do u get the cam gear, fuel rail, and pulleys from obx nik?

[nik]

how do u get the cam gear, fuel rail, and pulleys from obx nik?

call them i did thats how i foound out about them but its listed for 93-97 corolla 7afe
go to obx and you will see

edit : also have you checked here>>>> http://www.6gc.net/index.php?category=1&ye...rt&action=parts



This post has been edited by nik: Apr 14, 2006 - 5:00 PM

[hashmaster52]

hey how fast is your car nik?

[tcox22]

since we're all talking about the ALL MIGHTY 7afe ... how much hp can this put out, without nitrous and without a turbo charger... in other words, how much hp can a poor highschool kid like me get out of it.

[jdg371]

Probably around 110hp.. if its a healthy engine.
The best upgrade IMO for a 7AFE is to make it into a 7AGE. Thats the route im going for.. Since ill be happy at a mear 130-140whp.

7AGE:
4AGE head/pistons
7A block and rods
GE intake/exhaust mani

Theres more, but im still researching about it..
Found a site that talks about a 7AGE build
> http://te51levin.superjamie.net/ <

This post has been edited by jdg371: Apr 16, 2006 - 7:54 PM

[BLINKYxMUNKEY]

www.aspracing.com - Pulley from a 93-97 Corolla
www.evilspeed.com - He can make a CAI. Havent seen him in a while tho.
ebay.com - Corolla 93-97 1.8 header. Needs extra work to be fitted.

This post has been edited by BLINKYxMUNKEY: Apr 16, 2006 - 8:31 PM

[Mr_E]

100hp instantly= 100 shot of nitrous

Our AT200 is on its second engine after an 'experiment' with laughing gas....

Whoops...

[nik]

hey how fast is your car nik?

pretty quick right now but i cant wait till the break in is complete so i can see the full potentional of the 7agte

Probably around 110hp.. if its a healthy engine.
The best upgrade IMO for a 7AFE is to make it into a 7AGE. Thats the route im going for.. Since ill be happy at a mear 130-140whp.

7AGE:
4AGE head/pistons
7A block and rods
GE intake/exhaust mani

Theres more, but im still researching about it..
Found a site that talks about a 7AGE build
> http://te51levin.superjamie.net/ <

i talk to this guy over on club4ag.com he has alot of good info
also the timing belt and mounting the alt and other stuff is not easy

[jdg371]

Nik your breaking in the 7AGE right? are you going to do a before and after turbo dyno on it?

[95CelicaST]

Nik your breaking in the 7AGE right? are you going to do a before and after turbo dyno on it?

His turbo is already on it, so the only "Before" would be his 7A-FtE

[jdg371]

oh.. didnt even realize that lol

[malpaso]

All of you with more experience... Is this correct?

7AFE stock 115HP:
+3HP (REMUS muffler made for 7AFE)
+10HP (header)
+3HP (H&K intake)
+15HP (chip tuning)
+1HP (Denso iridum sparks and NGK wires)
------------------------------------------------

result: 147HP 7AFE

Is that nonsence or not?

[FAQdaWorld]

Keep in mind that there is power loss from the crank to the wheels. Yeah u may have like 115 hp at the crank, but to the wheels you prolly only have something like 85 - 90. Header is more like 2 or 3 hp, same w/ chip tuning in general. There's really not much you can do with a 7afe whilst keeping it breathing naturally, imho turbo is the best option but still has its limits.

-FAQ

[OOBE]

100hp instantly= 100 shot of nitrous

Our AT200 is on its second engine after an 'experiment' with laughing gas....

Whoops...

[playr158]

All of you with more experience... Is this correct?

7AFE stock 115HP:
+3HP (REMUS muffler made for 7AFE) <-----mufflers are universal? real gains will be from a full exhaust hearder back in 2.25" maybe 5-10hp (crank)
+10HP (header)<---see above
+3HP (H&K intake) <-----maybe froma cold air such as AEM but short rams i doubt will show gain as you'll be sucking hot air..
+15HP (chip tuning) <-----there are no chips you have to use a SAFC2 maybe 5hp
+1HP (Denso iridum sparks and NGK wires) <----realy = 0hp
------------------------------------------------

result: 147HP 7AFE

Is that nonsence or not?

[Bitter]

nonsense. things dont just add up like that. they change and alter the power band in different places in different amounts. i'd say you'd be lucky to have 130 at the crank and maybe 105-110 at the wheels with a 5spd. but in reality its probably just breaking 100-105 at the wheels with the manual trans.

[FAQdaWorld]

Yeah, i'd say thats prolly accurate. At best you're gonna get like 110 wheel hp out of a setup like that. Getting actual power out of these little motors isnt easy (esp. while staying NA), they're built for longevity and reliability, not to be race cars, thats why there is the 'g' series head.

-FAQ

[sinner96ST]

Has anyone ever bothered to dyno the ST in stock trim? I'd be curious to see exactly how much it puts to the wheels, and what various mods would do for the powerband.

Besides an intake, exhaust, and a header, there isn't anything else that will make the car go faster than what Toyota intended. It's a shame, and depressing to hear it, but it's the truth.

[malpaso]

All of you with more experience... Is this correct?

7AFE stock 115HP:
+3HP (REMUS muffler made for 7AFE) <-----mufflers are universal? real gains will be from a full exhaust * hearder back in 2.25" maybe 5-10hp (crank)
+10HP (header)<---see above **
+3HP (H&K intake) <-----maybe froma cold air such as AEM but short rams i doubt will show gain as you'll be sucking hot air..
+15HP (chip tuning) <-----there are no chips you have to use a SAFC2 maybe 5hp ***
+1HP (Denso iridum sparks and NGK wires) <----realy = 0hp
------------------------------------------------

result: 147HP 7AFE

Is that nonsence or not?

*No, this extra is muffler for 7AFE (link)



** so is this lie?

94-97 TOYOTA CELICA ST 1.8L 7AFE 4-2-1 STAINLESS HEADER


*** I thought that "chip tuning" means something like "flashing new software" to the chip. You need extra program for that (special for chip you tune)

[playr158]

there arn't any reflashes for the 7afe or "chips" like we have for a jetta or so...

you could use the safc to "tune" a little but not much varience in performance...

that header i really doubt gives 10-15hp never trust ebay for hp ratings w/o a dyno sheet

[Bitter]

thats not a 7a-fe header in that picture at all!

and ontop of that, they show a full length 4-1 AND a midpipe for a 4-2-1.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Apr 25, 2006 - 12:45 PM

[nik]

Has anyone ever bothered to dyno the ST in stock trim? I'd be curious to see exactly how much it puts to the wheels, and what various mods would do for the powerband.

Besides an intake, exhaust, and a header, there isn't anything else that will make the car go faster than what Toyota intended. It's a shame, and depressing to hear it, but it's the truth.

i did before my 7afte it was 95whp and 106 torque i'll have to find the dyno sheet this is also with a 94 7afe obd1

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 25, 2006 - 2:39 PM

[Bitter]

thats a 5spd eh? thats not too shabby at all.

was you'rs fed spec or cali? egr or no?

This post has been edited by Bitter: Apr 25, 2006 - 2:35 PM

[95CelicaST]

thats not a 7a-fe header in that picture at all!

and ontop of that, they show a full length 4-1 AND a midpipe for a 4-2-1.

Also, not only is it lightweight, its SUPER lightweight. +5 hp right there.

[malpaso]

thats not a 7a-fe header in that picture at all!

and ontop of that, they show a full length 4-1 AND a midpipe for a 4-2-1.

Also, not only is it lightweight, its SUPER lightweight. +5 hp right there.

So you say this header add max 5hp, not 10-15 they say...

[95CelicaST]

So you say this header add max 5hp, not 10-15 they say...

It was a joke

If you are lucky you will get 5hp off headers, exhaust, and intake.

[Bitter]

its not all about adding up numbers tho, its moreso about changing the powerband. thats where headers, intake, and exhaust are good.

[Celicaguy13]

Just curious... How do you get 4age pistons to work with a 7afe block if the 7a is a 1.8 and the 4a is a 1.6?

[nik]

Just curious... How do you get 4age pistons to work with a 7afe block if the 7a is a 1.8 and the 4a is a 1.6?

7afe and 4age pistons are both 81mm and some 4ag piston have 20mm wrist pins like the 7afe if you need more info just search for it or pm me

[pure_dx]

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

you cant reflash or chip a toyota ecu, a toyota is not a honda

an intake on the 7afe is more like a gain of 1 hp, probably 2 for CAI, (probably a lil more than 1 and 2, but you get the idea)

a header adding 15 hp to the 7afe? i doubt it, probably more around 5

the same with the rest of the mods

the only real way to know this if someone got dynoed and measured their hp from the crank AND the wheels with those mods

if you want 147+ hp N/A 7afe, you'd have to go deeper into the engine

[WH95TE]

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

I thought I read somewhere that the 94-95 have the extra hp?

[pure_dx]

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

I thought I read somewhere that the 94-95 have the extra hp?

read below

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

This post has been edited by pure_dx: Jun 28, 2006 - 3:27 PM

[SpoonR530]

Firstly there is a bunch of upgrades u can do on your ST, look ad EDO17982's ride man. Second..............


"The engines of the two models are different. The ST model is powered by the 1.8 liter DOHC 7A-FE engine. This engine puts out 110 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 115 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm in the 1994 and 1995 model years, and in the 1996 and 1997 model years, the engine puts out 105 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 117 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm. " 6GC.net

And C if you think you get one HP of a CAI epecially a ram air one, your on crack.

-Spoon

[WH95TE]

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

"The engines of the two models are different. The ST model is powered by the 1.8 liter DOHC 7A-FE engine. This engine puts out 110 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 115 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm in the 1994 and 1995 model years, and in the 1996 and 1997 model years, the engine puts out 105 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 117 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm. " 6GC.net
-Spoon

Which is true?

[DomGT]

only the 1994 7afe celicas have 115 hp, all the other ones are 105 hp

"The engines of the two models are different. The ST model is powered by the 1.8 liter DOHC 7A-FE engine. This engine puts out 110 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 115 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm in the 1994 and 1995 model years, and in the 1996 and 1997 model years, the engine puts out 105 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 117 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm. " 6GC.net
-Spoon

Which is true?

The 2nd one.

[malpaso]

Firstly there is a bunch of upgrades u can do on your ST, look ad EDO17982's ride man. Second..............


"The engines of the two models are different. The ST model is powered by the 1.8 liter DOHC 7A-FE engine. This engine puts out 110 horsepower at 5600 rpm and 115 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm in the 1994 and 1995 model years, and in the 1996 and 1997 model years, the engine puts out 105 horsepower at 5200 rpm and 117 lb. ft. of torque at 2800 rpm. " 6GC.net

And C if you think you get one HP of a CAI epecially a ram air one, your on crack.

-Spoon

And now crafty question . I have facelifted celica (1996-1999) from the stock, but my car was made 20th of December 1995 (punctually ). It's my 7AFE that one with 110 or with 105 horsepower?

[Bitter]

its a 96 model year car with a 96 model year engine.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jul 8, 2006 - 8:51 AM

[malpaso]

its a 96 model year car with a 96 model year engine.

second weird thing: in my log-book I have writen engine power 85kW/5800rpm (that's 85 * 1.36 = 115HP)

[Bitter]

its a 96 model year car with a 96 model year engine.

second weird thing: in my log-book I have writen engine power 85kW/5800rpm (that's 85 * 1.36 = 115HP)

could be a typo, in my owners manual there are several typo's ranging from mislabled engine bay pictures to swapped fluid capacities.


also, we're talking about US spec'd engines. abroad the 7afe had different tunes, indoneasian and russian 7afe's got upto 120 crank hp.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Jul 8, 2006 - 12:15 PM

[pure_dx]

ooops, my bad, so the 7afe geo prizm and corolla actually has more hp than the celica 7afe, whoa! no wonder the st are so slow, jk

[SpoonR530]

hehe, damn st's....



I have read from ToyotaNation the pistons from a 7AFE can be replaced with 4AGZE pistons with out much modification
is it true?>>>??????

If it is we can get rid of that fuel economy BS.... 4 different compression ratioz.



-SpooNr

This post has been edited by SpoonR530: Jul 9, 2006 - 1:51 PM

[nik]

hehe, damn st's....



I have read from ToyotaNation the pistons from a 7AFE can be replaced with 4AGZE pistons with out much modification
is it true?>>>??????

If it is we can get rid of that fuel economy BS.... 4 different compression ratioz.



-SpooNr

yes they do but you have to get the 4ag pistons that have 20mm wrist pins i had 4agze pistons in my 7agte but swaped them out for ARIES pistons fully forged

hehe, damn st's....



I have read from ToyotaNation the pistons from a 7AFE can be replaced with 4AGZE pistons with out much modification
is it true?>>>??????

If it is we can get rid of that fuel economy BS.... 4 different compression ratioz.



-SpooNr

yes they do but you have to get the 4ag pistons that have 20mm wrist pins i had 4agze pistons in my 7agte but swaped them out for ARIES pistons fully forged also go check the featured ride he has a built 7afe with 4ag pistons in it

[tomazws]

stickers mate, the more stickers the more hp...

[malpaso]

stickers mate, the more stickers the more hp...

and 'BEAMS' sticker on engine is the most powerful (own experience )



This post has been edited by malpaso: Jul 11, 2006 - 1:06 AM

[SpoonR530]

When taking the head off the 7afe engine block is there gaskets, specialized tools needed or anything else I might regret having when I change the pistons? (I really need a Celica manual)



-spoonr

[tomazws]

stickers mate, the more stickers the more hp...

and 'BEAMS' sticker on engine is the most powerful (own experience )

If you add a "TOYOTA" emblem on the valve cover, it will provide you even more.

Very nice clean engine BTW.

[j0e_p3t]

haha, i love your redtop "beams".

[SpoonR530]

When taking the head off the 7afe engine block is there gaskets, specialized tools needed or anything else I might regret having when I change the pistons? (I really need a Celica manual)



-spoonr

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/toyota-t...ze-pistons.html
"no you cannot put the 4agze pistons in to a 7afe
block they are not right and the 7afe block will granade"
Do i have to get the 4age head for the swap>???

This post has been edited by SpoonR530: Jul 12, 2006 - 7:24 PM

[Kwanza26]

When taking the head off the 7afe engine block is there gaskets, specialized tools needed or anything else I might regret having when I change the pistons? (I really need a Celica manual)
"no you cannot put the 4agze pistons in to a 7afe
block they are not right and the 7afe block will granade"
Do i have to get the 4age head for the swap>???

The 4AG pistons with 20mm wrists do fit... but only with modification to the 7AFE rods (full float versus press fit pins). 4AGZE pistons will raise compression mated to the 7AFE head... but will lower compression on the 4AG (in a 7AG hybrid build) head. You won't be able to do anything to the pistons and rods without a press and the proper tools (press plates, etc for the pistons), otherwise you might as well kiss the pistons and rods goodbye. If you've NEVER built an engine before... this is NOT a good place to start... switching parts and doing custom work is not for beginners.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Jul 13, 2006 - 10:12 PM

[sinner96ST]

I wouldn't go messing with the internals in the ST unless you've built engines before in the past, and planning on doing more than just swapping pistons, which is a big job to the novice.

If you want the ST to have more power, turbo it. No amount of N/A modification is going to net you any serious powers, it's difficult to build on a platform that doesn't even see 100hp to the wheels.

I believe Nik is the only member here who can honestly say he's done as much as he possibly can to the motor he started with.

[SpoonR530]

thnx for the advice, I think for now i will save up money for the 7afte parts. In the mean time i will buy a 4agze to learn from, eventually swaping that or making a hybrid of the two much later down the line.
-ZpooNr
ps

One of my best friends has a N/A board out Datsun 1973 510, No Smog Checks ! We've rebuilt two engines so far and we also have a 3ed on the way, so Im not a complete noob.

pps

The 510 actually just got coilover eibach springs which we g6's can pic up too for $400!

This post has been edited by SpoonR530: Jul 16, 2006 - 12:30 AM