Question for the 3S Swappers! Options

[gt_driFFter]

Basically, I will be swapping soon (end of summer hopefully) and I want to know if it's worth it to go with the E153 Tranny, or any other LSD combo? For you guys using just the GT tranny, do you get much 1 wheel-peel? I'll have Dr Tweak do the swap, I just want to know if it's with the extra $1200-$1750.

Thanks

[brianforster]

if your car is a manual now, id take that transmission for all its worth, and then upgrade to the e153 later, theres no sense in throwing away a perfectly good transmission, and the stock gt tranny will hold up just fine from what i have read, the problem comes when you want more power.


i think anyone planning to upgrade their turbo should upgrade to the e153..

the gt tranny will definitly take whatever you and the ct26 can throw at it though.

[lagos]

i just got a new set of tires, and now i dont have any traction problem or anything like that on my gt tranny. 2+ swaped years, running strong.

you just have to ask yourself if its worth the extra cost to convert over. you need a lot of little parts to make it all work. if you think youll ever want to go with one at some point, now is the time to do something like that. if you got the cash, then go for it.

[gt_driFFter]

The car has 247k miles on it. I just swapped in another manual tranny, one with about 70k miles that I picked up from a junkyard.

The problem is, I've never ridden in a 3s CELICA so I don't know if I'm going to want more power. I've ridden in a MR2 turbo with a CT20B and a few other basic boltons and it felt niiiice. Now obviously it's M-R so it's going to feel different from a stop, but as far as on the highway they should feel close right? If so, that would be perfect for now. I'm pretty sure the only real upgrades I'll do right away would be a CT20B or CT27, and a full performance exhaust.
Art, do you get a lot of torque steer? Would the e153 help that?

This post has been edited by gt_driFFter: Apr 26, 2006 - 2:17 PM

[jgreening]

The car has 247k miles on it. I just swapped in another manual tranny, one with about 70k miles that I picked up from a junkyard.

The problem is, I've never ridden in a 3s CELICA so I don't know if I'm going to want more power. I've ridden in a MR2 turbo with a CT20B and a few other basic boltons and it felt niiiice. Now obviously it's M-R so it's going to feel different from a stop, but as far as on the highway they should feel close right? If so, that would be perfect for now. I'm pretty sure the only real upgrades I'll do right away would be a CT20B or CT27, and a full performance exhaust.
Art, do you get a lot of torque steer? Would the e153 help that?

I think you should plan your desired power level first. If its over 200whp, go with the tranny that is known to hold up!

[lagos]

i dont really have a lot of torque steer with these tires. i did with my old ones. but yeah, lsd will help you not have torque steer issues.

i agree with what jay said about planing out your power level 1st, except that i don agree on the number he posted. i think as long as you stay under 300hp, youll be just fine with the stock GT tranny .

now here is something a lot of people dont think about. once you have a turbo car, and realize how easy it is to make more power, youll have a serious addiction. you will never feel like you have enough power. so if its in your budget, you might as well have a tranny in there, that you know will be able to hold 300+ hp without any problems.

[gt_driFFter]

Yeah, at this point I'm looking for around 225hp-250hp. But since this engine responds so well to mods, I'm sure you're right about the addiction. I'll just dish out the extra cash to make sure it's done right the first time.

[Kwanza26]

I think you should make a decision not based on traction, but on strength. The e153 is simply stronger... and your power goals should be the reason you go with the e153. Traction can be compensated for and there are LSD options for the S series trans if traction becomes that big of an issue.

[jgreening]

i dont really have a lot of torque steer with these tires. i did with my old ones. but yeah, lsd will help you not have torque steer issues.

i agree with what jay said about planing out your power level 1st, except that i don agree on the number he posted. i think as long as you stay under 300hp, youll be just fine with the stock GT tranny .

now here is something a lot of people dont think about. once you have a turbo car, and realize how easy it is to make more power, youll have a serious addiction. you will never feel like you have enough power. so if its in your budget, you might as well have a tranny in there, that you know will be able to hold 300+ hp without any problems.

Art, you and I agree on most things, this topic included. I think its fair to say that driving habits probably have more to do with this issue rather than the precise horsepower output of the car.

With that in mind, I will make one final point which you can refute if you like. I am relieved that you have had no problems so far with the GT tranny in the low 200 hp range (I am sure you are as well). However, I think that sometimes we rely on our own personal experiences too much in giving advice rather than the collective experiences of the community. I have read of AT LEAST 10 GT trannies from celica 3sgte swaps that have crapped out. I am sure there have been even more with MR2s (although I have never researched the issue). Most of these were far below 300whp. Perhaps there are a number of swaps out there at those levels, like yours, that have never had problems. With that said, I think we can safely conclude as a community that running the GT tranny at levels much above 200whp is going to be a risk.

[Defgeph]

This is one of those topics that will go on back and forth until someone from this board will pops a GT tranny.

Like Jay said, from "what I have seen". Manny is running a stock GT tranny, he is also making alot of HP. This car is by no means baby'ed. I have seen it at the track a number of times, watched him launch this car.

The tranny is still kicking knock on wood.

As far as myself, I'm not sure what different internally with my tranny. Going by what other people say(which I hate doing) it should be similar. The only difference I notice are thicker axles. I have pushed my car hard for a while now. Keep in mind I have maybe 4 or 5 thousand miles on the engine and tranny.

Its taking the abuse just fine knock on wood. I have some times of TQ steer, but thats about it. Where the car stands right now I like my tranny.

I agree, this decision should depend on power goals. It should also depend on what you want out of the car. Are you looking to race ? Or, have a really awesome toy ? Race get the LSD, Toy stick with what you have for now. It should do just fine (if the GT tranny is in Good shape).

[easternpiro1]

i'd hate to butt in and jack a post, but i have a question (as art knows i have plenty of) just for knowledge's sake. what exactly is torque steer? I have an ST and WE ALL KNOW that i probably..... no... DEFINATELY dont have a torque steer problem, let alone feel it at all!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Apr 27, 2006 - 5:42 PM

[presure2]

eastern..torque steer is when you mash the gas, and there is so much torque going to one side that the car wants to pull, to one side or the other..rather than lurching straight forward.
i agree pretty much word for word with what the guys said.
especially if you have the $$ for it now. do it once, and be done with it.
if not, the stock tranny as long as its in good shape when you start will be fine, especially at the power level you listed (225-250whp)
im at 235whp & 270ft lbs on the stock GT tranny, and axels, with 175+k on it.
like jeff said, i do NOT baby my car, she is driven daily.
now, i wont say that the thing is never going to break...to be honest, i think if i get good traction @ the track this year, having spare axels is gonna be a key to making it back home i think..lmao...we'll see!

[burneeed]

e153 is the way like jgreening I have been through 3 trannys in the past 6 months... but it all depends on how you really drive the car. lagos Im really suprised you are going 2+ years on a swap. Our cars arent really too fun to put a tranny in ethier. Its a real pain. Last night I was putting in the e153. Finnally have everything to put it in. Then my welder broke when making the side mount .

[jgreening]

now, i wont say that the thing is never going to break...to be honest, i think if i get good traction @ the track this year, having spare axels is gonna be a key to making it back home i think..lmao...we'll see!

Quote of the day!

[burneeed]

hahaha thats the truth.

[presure2]

now, i wont say that the thing is never going to break...to be honest, i think if i get good traction @ the track this year, having spare axels is gonna be a key to making it back home i think..lmao...we'll see!

Quote of the day!

looks like we may find out soon rather than later....im in the process of convincing the wife to head up to New England Dragway tonight...

[lagos]

i dont really have a lot of torque steer with these tires. i did with my old ones. but yeah, lsd will help you not have torque steer issues.

i agree with what jay said about planing out your power level 1st, except that i don agree on the number he posted. i think as long as you stay under 300hp, youll be just fine with the stock GT tranny .

now here is something a lot of people dont think about. once you have a turbo car, and realize how easy it is to make more power, youll have a serious addiction. you will never feel like you have enough power. so if its in your budget, you might as well have a tranny in there, that you know will be able to hold 300+ hp without any problems.

Art, you and I agree on most things, this topic included. I think its fair to say that driving habits probably have more to do with this issue rather than the precise horsepower output of the car.

With that in mind, I will make one final point which you can refute if you like. I am relieved that you have had no problems so far with the GT tranny in the low 200 hp range (I am sure you are as well). However, I think that sometimes we rely on our own personal experiences too much in giving advice rather than the collective experiences of the community. I have read of AT LEAST 10 GT trannies from celica 3sgte swaps that have crapped out. I am sure there have been even more with MR2s (although I have never researched the issue). Most of these were far below 300whp. Perhaps there are a number of swaps out there at those levels, like yours, that have never had problems. With that said, I think we can safely conclude as a community that running the GT tranny at levels much above 200whp is going to be a risk.

you know.... ive seen posts of people saying they had tranny issues with the gt tranny, ive also seen people have issues with the mr2 tranny ...and after reading most of them, it sounded more like clutch issues, then tranny problems. a lot of people misdaignose the problem, and when their car wont go into gear, they blame the trans. if they really did have tranny problems, its probably because they were getting close to 200,000miles on their car, and the trans was on its way out anyway. also, most of the tranny issues i have see were with the older s53 (5th gen). most people agree the s54 seems to be stronger.

here is a list of people i can thnk of who havent had a problem with their gt tranny.

Lagos 2yrs now
presure2 has close to 20k boosted miles on his
jeff JDM 3sge tranny
Dg_performance going over 2yrs (but he dosnt drive his car often)
Doge 2yrs (did the swap at the same time as i have)
Ryu (red gt4 look from cali) has had his for a while.
Jamasco - told me he made 300hp on a gt tranny with no issues.
BBOY (forgot to add him to the list)
etc....

now, there is no doubt that the lsd mr2 tranny is the better choice. its very strong, and has LSD... but lets not kock the s54. i think more then engough people on here have used one for a while to prove that its not a total piece of crap.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 29, 2006 - 9:17 AM

[burneeed]

honestly I dont know how you can drive that for 2 years without the tranny breaking. I am assuming that you do not daily drive your celica? WHen I did my swap I swapped a brand new 6 puck clutch in at the time. I have put 20k on my swap and I have been through 3 trannys the enire time. When I took the trany off this time I looked at the clutch it seams decent but this time I have to go with a mr2 turbo clutch being that I am swapping for a e153. But I doubt its clutch issues. The tranny just cant hold the power.

[lagos]

honestly I dont know how you can drive that for 2 years without the tranny breaking. I am assuming that you do not daily drive your celica? WHen I did my swap I swapped a brand new 6 puck clutch in at the time. I have put 20k on my swap and I have been through 3 trannys the enire time. When I took the trany off this time I looked at the clutch it seams decent but this time I have to go with a mr2 turbo clutch being that I am swapping for a e153. But I doubt its clutch issues. The tranny just cant hold the power.

i drive the car daily at about 13psi. 1st year was spent daily driving to work and back. 2nd yr i didnt put as many miles on it, but still drove it every chance i got.

what were your symptoms that made you replace the tranny 3times?
3 gt trannys in 20k miles sounds a little crazy. it almost sounds like your problem is with something other then the tranny.

[presure2]

honestly I dont know how you can drive that for 2 years without the tranny breaking. I am assuming that you do not daily drive your celica? WHen I did my swap I swapped a brand new 6 puck clutch in at the time. I have put 20k on my swap and I have been through 3 trannys the enire time. When I took the trany off this time I looked at the clutch it seams decent but this time I have to go with a mr2 turbo clutch being that I am swapping for a e153. But I doubt its clutch issues. The tranny just cant hold the power.

ive got about 17k on my tranny since the turbo install, and ive had 3s power or better since going thru it.
have yet to break anything.
im not gonna make it to the track tonight, so i guess we'll have to wait and see for a couple more weeks...but then again...not like i havent been beating on it on the street...and the way i have to "pedal" the gas and clutch to launch without just lighting up the tires, im thinking i should be ok.
like i said earlier, i think if i were to go to a drag radial, or slick @ the track, then axels will become an issue.
have you been breaking axles?
theyre usually the first thing to go before the tranny actually breaks. if not, id suspect some other issue.

[burneeed]

Id like to see your car sometime.. I meen those numbers for a 5s are really impressive. Are you comming down for the beaver track meet in august?

[Defgeph]

Poping three trannys seems kind of fishy.

Art posted a list of people running GT trannys with no problems at all. I would look over your setup and make sure everything is correct. What type or brand tranny fluid are you using ?

I should be removed from that list though. I have a JDM 3sge tranny, its a little different than the usdm 5sfe tranny. I'm going to do some research on the internals of both trannys. I'd like to know once and for all if the internals are the same or not.

[lagos]

Poping three trannys seems kind of fishy.

Art posted a list of people running GT trannys with no problems at all. I would look over your setup and make sure everything is correct. What type or brand tranny fluid are you using ?

I should be removed from that list though. I have a JDM 3sge tranny, its a little different than the usdm 5sfe tranny. I'm going to do some research on the internals of both trannys. I'd like to know once and for all if the internals are the same or not.

i changed you to " unknown tranny, but not mr2"

find out the tranny code for what you have. its not out of a beams or anything right? do you know the year? im almost willing to bet that its either an s53 or an s54, because all the same shifter calbes and stuff work for you.

[burneeed]

e153 is almost in I made both mounts tonight. Ill get the axles in on sunday when I have the time.

[Defgeph]

Haha, you can change me to a JDM 3sge tranny. My tranny is very different from any 5sfe trannys.

How much you gonna put up ?

[presure2]

Poping three trannys seems kind of fishy.

Art posted a list of people running GT trannys with no problems at all. I would look over your setup and make sure everything is correct. What type or brand tranny fluid are you using ?

I should be removed from that list though. I have a JDM 3sge tranny, its a little different than the usdm 5sfe tranny. I'm going to do some research on the internals of both trannys. I'd like to know once and for all if the internals are the same or not.

i changed you to " unknown tranny, but not mr2"

find out the tranny code for what you have. its not out of a beams or anything right? do you know the year? im almost willing to bet that its either an s53 or an s54, because all the same shifter calbes and stuff work for you.

if you saw he axles, you wouldnt be saying that...lol

[lagos]

so whats the tranny code? this is the 1st time anyone has heard of this jdm 3sge tranny.

[yungazzdriver]

check out this tranny, this is the one converted to fwd with axles, and no fitment problem , and i came with a cusco lsd


i have a video of me spinning the axles to show its lsd but too much work

This post has been edited by yungazzdriver: Apr 29, 2006 - 9:56 AM

[Defgeph]

so whats the tranny code? this is the 1st time anyone has heard of this jdm 3sge tranny.

How much money do you want to put up ? Once you figure that out, then I let you snoop around under my car.
No, this is the first time you have heard of it. You can talk all you want, if you are so concerned about what I have. Get in you car, drive to my house and look for yourself. I'm tired of trying to convince you.




Youngazz - Do you have a picture that shows the entire back side fo that tranny ?

[urbandork]

eastern..torque steer is when you mash the gas, and there is so much torque going to one side that the car wants to pull, to one side or the other..rather than lurching straight forward.
i agree pretty much word for word with what the guys said.
especially if you have the $$ for it now. do it once, and be done with it.
if not, the stock tranny as long as its in good shape when you start will be fine, especially at the power level you listed (225-250whp)
im at 235whp & 270ft lbs on the stock GT tranny, and axels, with 175+k on it.
like jeff said, i do NOT baby my car, she is driven daily.
now, i wont say that the thing is never going to break...to be honest, i think if i get good traction @ the track this year, having spare axels is gonna be a key to making it back home i think..lmao...we'll see!

i agree

just as point of refrence.

with my 5sfte the stock gt clutch slips at certain points.

[lagos]

so whats the tranny code? this is the 1st time anyone has heard of this jdm 3sge tranny.

How much money do you want to put up ? Once you figure that out, then I let you snoop around under my car.
No, this is the first time you have heard of it. You can talk all you want, if you are so concerned about what I have. Get in you car, drive to my house and look for yourself. I'm tired of trying to convince you.




Youngazz - Do you have a picture that shows the entire back side fo that tranny ?

why are you all of a sudden being a dick to me? im just asking you a question about your car. even you dont know what tranny that really is. im not trying to put down your car in any way.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 29, 2006 - 5:21 PM

[Defgeph]

I DO know what tranny it is. you dont. I told you what it is. I have ordered parts for it. 3sge plain and simple.

I'm acting this way cause you just dont get it.

[lagos]

I DO know what tranny it is. you dont. I told you what it is. I have ordered parts for it. 3sge plain and simple.

I'm acting this way cause you just dont get it.

saying that its a "3sge tranny" is only saying what motor it was mated up to. not what tranny it really is.

This post has been edited by lagos: Apr 29, 2006 - 5:35 PM