Went to the Dyno : what the hell happened? Options

[lagos]

with std correction, i made
229HP and 240TQ

with SAE crrection i made
222hp 234tq at 12-13psi ...with lots of issues.....

here is a video from the dyno
http://download.yousendit.com/D176956C4A979DBC


so i finally went to the dyno for the first time ever. on my 1st run i got a shocking surprise. the car was very lean and there was a huge drop in the power curve. what the hell happened? right before the dyno, i installed some Bosch coper plugs. the store was out of NGK and i figured, it would probably be fine. boy was i wrong. can someone explain to me how sparkplugs can make my car run lean like that?

lucky for me, the dyno owner is an mr2 owner as well. he had a fresh set of NGKs so we quickly droped them in. it seemed to cure the problem. the 2nd run did a lot better, and with the 3rd and 4th run the car was getting ritcher and ritcher, to where it should be.

then i noticed another problem. before going to the dyno, i was hitting 15psi on the street. problem is, when i got on the dyno all i was seeing was about 12 maybe 13psi, and it would start to drop off to around 10psi in the higher rpm range. this was a problem i never noticed in my car before. the only thing i can think of is that my car has a boost leak, or the mbc is not doing its job.


here is the 1st run. i was shocked when i saw that.




this is the 2nd run . you can see the a/f start to get better as well as the power curve.



finally this is the 4th run. you can see the a/f is much better



This post has been edited by lagos: May 2, 2006 - 11:40 AM

[jgreening]

A few observations:

1. The first run shows massive knock response throughout the range from the plugs and a significant detonation event at 5100 rpm (again, knock response shown)
2. The second run also has a detonation event (albeit not as pronounced) at 6100 rpm
3. Why the hell would the a/f ratio be worse with different plugs???? That makes no sense to me.
4. The boost on a dyno will normally be less than the street because there isnt as much load placed on the engine. You have to turn the boost up. My guess is that if you had, the knock response would be much worse.
5. It looks like the plugs cleared up the detonation problem so thats good. Also, your a/f in that run looks much better than most afm equipped 3sgtes

Good job. Did you have fun?

This post has been edited by jgreening: May 1, 2006 - 11:08 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

sweet man, nice numbers! i just turned up my boost to 15psi today lol and now i know what you feel

[lagos]

A few observations:

1. The first run shows massive knock response throughout the range from the plugsand a significant detonation event at 5100 rpm (again, knock response shown)
2. The third run also has a detonation event (albeit not as pronounced) at 6100 rpm
3. Why the hell would the a/f ratio be worse with different plugs???? That makes no sense to me.
4. The boost on a dyno will normally be less than the street because there isnt as much load placed on the engine. You have to turn the boost up. My guess is that if you had, the knock response would be much worse.
5. It looks like the plugs cleared up the detonation problem so thats good. Also, your a/f in that run looks much better than most afm equipped 3sgtes

Good job. Did you have fun?

jay you are correct! pretty much what aaron posted too on mr2 oc.

its crazy that the wrong plugs can really give you deotnation like that. i just cant understand why it was so lean at 1st.

5. It looks like the plugs cleared up the detonation problem so thats good. Also, your a/f in that run looks much better than most afm equipped 3sgtes

i have a feeling that most of the crazy ritch dyno sheets we see are from the USDM ecu. my JDM ecu has a very similar A/f ratio as jeffs runs did.

[lagos]

and it looks like i was wrong about the fuel rail, stock fpr, and upgraded pump, causing the car to run very ritch. it IS all in the JDM vs USDM ecu. thats why we gain 20hp over USDM ones

[Defgeph]

Its about time!

Nice numbers. I think you should give your car a little bit more of a rest in between runs. You did one pull then the next one 3 minutes later. I think if you would have waited a little longer, your intercooler would have cooled down more. Looks like its falling off up top because the lack of cooling. The huge fan is nice, but I think it needs a little more time to cool the front mount.
I think the MBC is fine, a set screw should let the correct amount of air by everytime.


I estimate once the quirks are worked out 226hp 240tq @ 15psi
Should be just about dead on for a stock 2nd gen swap.

very cool,
It was fun right ?
When are you going back ?

[lagos]

we did the runs one after the next, because the whole time we were thinking......wtf? why is it lean? why is it getting richer? what the hell happened in the 1st run?


other then that, it was a lot of fun and i learned a lot. i think im going to get a greddy type-S ebc and hit the dyno again.

[Defgeph]

You know whats funny.

I have an EBC, I'm thinking about just throwing in a MBC.
You have an MBC, and your thinking about putting in an EBC.

I think there is something we havent figured out yet.


Next time, get the boost log (if offered there). It a great help to see everything.

[lagos]

yeah, i really wanted them to log boost, but they dont have that feature on their dyno jet.

i think a type-s is the best solution. its as easy to adjust as an mbc, with all the benefits of an ebc. i originally wanted the one you have, but after seeing your boost log....um ... no thanks..lol that thing is way to hard to program correctly

[Defgeph]

I just need like 20 minutes devoted to the controller, I have one setting the needs be be adjusted. This should correct the boost in the higher RPM, hopefully free up some more power.

We'll see.

[brianforster]

good numbers, makes me scared about my EBC though haha, mark said it gave him some problems sometimes, hopefully it will work for me lol.

[lagos]

and if u look at my video.... i need to redo my motor mounts, AGAIN!

[BLADDER_MASTER]

d00d, if it's one thing I've learned from MR2OC.com, is that Bosch plugs are a huge no-no for 3S-GTE's. When I was reading your post and saw the part where you mentioned you were running Bosch plugs, I automatically knew that was going to be a problem. Stay away from Bosch when it comes to ignition stuff.

[presure2]

good job art,
jay hit the nail right on hte head.
fun stuff!
get them runfiles!

[BBoYRuGGeD]

wow nice numbers art and thank god i didnt pick up bosch plugs a few weeks ago, my store was out of NGKs as well so i just went to another lol

bboy

[OOBE]

Lagos, your curve needs some serious Anti-Aliasing! And Bosch plugs suck. NGK all the way.

[Supersprynt]

and if u look at my video.... i need to redo my motor mounts, AGAIN!

Poly them already.

[playr158]

and if u look at my video.... i need to redo my motor mounts, AGAIN!

Poly them already.

his are already polyfilled....


great job art that spark plug thing really goes to showing proper preparatioin in all aspects of your motor and not short cutting

[lagos]

so it seems i made more power then i thought. manny is telling me that we use STD correction, not SAE.

with std correction, i made
229HP and 240TQ

[lagos]

here is an exported view of the last run. if you look at the a/f ratio on the last run, its actually a really good factory tune!



s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.34 2.90 89.86 162.73 12.79
0.58 3.00 98.17 171.85 12.30
0.80 3.10 104.44 176.95 11.94
0.99 3.20 115.88 190.16 11.45
1.19 3.30 131.45 209.19 10.84
1.36 3.40 143.07 221.00 10.81
1.54 3.50 149.37 224.14 11.19
1.72 3.60 155.20 226.42 11.69
1.89 3.70 158.73 225.32 11.98
2.07 3.80 165.40 228.60 12.08
2.23 3.90 172.52 232.33 12.18
2.40 4.00 179.25 235.36 12.37
2.57 4.10 184.76 236.67 12.48
2.74 4.20 189.47 236.93 12.53
2.91 4.30 193.30 236.11 12.51
3.08 4.40 198.50 236.94 12.45
3.25 4.50 201.41 235.09 12.36
3.43 4.60 203.37 232.20 12.25
3.60 4.70 207.45 231.83 12.12
3.77 4.80 210.97 230.84 12.02
3.94 4.90 215.36 230.83 11.86
4.12 5.00 219.38 230.44 11.81
4.30 5.10 222.19 228.83 11.74
4.49 5.20 221.92 224.15 11.78
4.67 5.30 220.82 218.82 11.78
4.87 5.40 221.37 215.31 11.71
5.06 5.50 221.76 211.77 11.62
5.26 5.60 221.15 207.41 11.47
5.46 5.70 222.41 204.94 11.28
5.67 5.80 222.72 201.68 11.23
5.88 5.90 221.72 197.38 11.31
6.10 6.00 220.26 192.80 11.32
6.33 6.10 216.29 186.23 11.41
6.57 6.20 212.33 179.87 11.32
6.80 6.30 212.37 177.05 11.19
7.04 6.40 210.69 172.90 11.16
7.29 6.50 210.20 169.84 11.08
7.55 6.60 207.60 165.21 11.04
7.76 6.70 189.07 148.28 10.99
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 7.76 6.70 222.72 236.94 12.79
MIN: 0.34 2.90 89.86 148.28 10.81

[dustin15brown]

good numbers art

[eggman40]

How much did the tuning session run you?

[lagos]

How much did the tuning session run you?

65bucks for 4 runs with wideband.

[presure2]

here is an exported view of the last run. if you look at the a/f ratio on the last run, its actually a really good factory tune!



s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.34 2.90 89.86 162.73 12.79
0.58 3.00 98.17 171.85 12.30
0.80 3.10 104.44 176.95 11.94
0.99 3.20 115.88 190.16 11.45
1.19 3.30 131.45 209.19 10.84
1.36 3.40 143.07 221.00 10.81
1.54 3.50 149.37 224.14 11.19
1.72 3.60 155.20 226.42 11.69
1.89 3.70 158.73 225.32 11.98
2.07 3.80 165.40 228.60 12.08
2.23 3.90 172.52 232.33 12.18
2.40 4.00 179.25 235.36 12.37
2.57 4.10 184.76 236.67 12.48
2.74 4.20 189.47 236.93 12.53
2.91 4.30 193.30 236.11 12.51
3.08 4.40 198.50 236.94 12.45
3.25 4.50 201.41 235.09 12.36
3.43 4.60 203.37 232.20 12.25
3.60 4.70 207.45 231.83 12.12
3.77 4.80 210.97 230.84 12.02
3.94 4.90 215.36 230.83 11.86
4.12 5.00 219.38 230.44 11.81
4.30 5.10 222.19 228.83 11.74
4.49 5.20 221.92 224.15 11.78
4.67 5.30 220.82 218.82 11.78
4.87 5.40 221.37 215.31 11.71
5.06 5.50 221.76 211.77 11.62
5.26 5.60 221.15 207.41 11.47
5.46 5.70 222.41 204.94 11.28
5.67 5.80 222.72 201.68 11.23
5.88 5.90 221.72 197.38 11.31
6.10 6.00 220.26 192.80 11.32
6.33 6.10 216.29 186.23 11.41
6.57 6.20 212.33 179.87 11.32
6.80 6.30 212.37 177.05 11.19
7.04 6.40 210.69 172.90 11.16
7.29 6.50 210.20 169.84 11.08
7.55 6.60 207.60 165.21 11.04
7.76 6.70 189.07 148.28 10.99
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 7.76 6.70 222.72 236.94 12.79
MIN: 0.34 2.90 89.86 148.28 10.81

yup..thats not too shabby at all, art.
for comparison, here is mine, followed by jeffs:

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\RunFile_029.drf
Run Title:
Run Notes:
Run Date: 4/1/2006 5:36:55 PM

RunFile_029.drf: 73.95 °F 30.10 in-Hg Humidity: 6 % STD: 0.99 Average Gear Ratio: 63.65

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.48 1.90 N/A N/A 11.70
0.80 2.00 54.06 141.96 11.54
1.15 2.10 57.67 144.25 11.33
1.45 2.20 60.38 144.14 10.76
1.76 2.30 66.42 151.66 10.06
2.05 2.40 74.34 162.68 10.00
2.31 2.50 82.70 173.74 10.00
2.57 2.60 91.62 185.08 10.13
2.81 2.70 99.26 193.08 10.55
3.04 2.80 107.52 201.68 10.54
3.26 2.90 117.69 213.15 10.40
3.47 3.00 129.23 226.24 10.75
3.65 3.10 140.09 237.34 11.23
3.82 3.20 151.17 248.10 11.61
4.00 3.30 163.34 259.97 11.88
4.18 3.40 171.80 265.38 12.17
4.35 3.50 176.59 264.99 12.25
4.52 3.60 182.60 266.39 12.12
4.69 3.70 190.17 269.95 12.08
4.86 3.80 196.94 272.20 12.06
5.04 3.90 202.48 272.68 12.06
5.21 4.00 206.75 271.47 12.07
5.38 4.10 213.22 273.14 12.13
5.54 4.20 219.38 274.33 12.22
5.71 4.30 224.20 273.84 12.29
5.89 4.40 227.96 272.10 12.26
6.07 4.50 226.96 264.89 11.97
6.26 4.60 227.57 259.84 11.33
6.44 4.70 230.80 257.91 11.09
6.62 4.80 233.08 255.03 11.02
6.82 4.90 235.98 252.94 10.99
7.01 5.00 234.31 246.13 10.95
7.21 5.10 234.84 241.85 11.03
7.41 5.20 234.43 236.78 11.02
7.63 5.30 235.61 233.49 11.02
7.83 5.40 235.42 228.97 11.06
8.04 5.50 233.37 222.85 11.12
8.27 5.60 231.87 217.47 11.23
8.50 5.70 230.07 211.99 11.28
8.73 5.80 227.09 205.64 11.28
8.98 5.90 220.88 196.62 11.28
9.24 6.00 217.34 190.25 11.25
9.50 6.10 207.54 178.70 11.20
9.80 6.20 201.85 170.99 10.68
10.05 6.30 166.74 139.04 10.36
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 10.05 6.30 235.98 274.33 12.29
MIN: 0.48 1.90 54.06 139.04 10.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\JEFF BRANNA\RunFile_007.drf
Run Title:
Run Notes:
Run Date: 4/24/2006 6:26:35 PM

RunFile_007.drf: 67.86 °F 30.29 in-Hg Humidity: 6 % STD: 0.98 Average Gear Ratio: 64.55

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.58 2.20 54.70 130.58 14.62
0.90 2.30 60.97 139.21 14.46
1.21 2.40 67.86 148.51 14.36
1.49 2.50 76.71 161.15 14.54
1.76 2.60 85.34 172.39 14.35
2.00 2.70 93.08 181.05 14.17
2.23 2.80 103.04 193.27 13.87
2.44 2.90 113.56 205.66 13.96
2.64 3.00 124.54 218.02 14.24
2.84 3.10 131.78 223.26 14.52
3.03 3.20 140.02 229.80 14.63
3.21 3.30 151.77 241.55 14.43
3.39 3.40 158.15 244.30 14.24
3.57 3.50 165.83 248.84 14.05
3.75 3.60 171.96 250.88 13.85
3.92 3.70 178.38 253.21 13.65
4.10 3.80 184.34 254.79 13.39
4.27 3.90 191.10 257.36 13.13
4.44 4.00 195.02 256.06 12.94
4.62 4.10 202.08 258.87 12.78
4.79 4.20 209.08 261.46 12.66
4.96 4.30 214.04 261.44 12.58
5.13 4.40 215.96 257.79 12.53
5.31 4.50 219.94 256.70 12.46
5.49 4.60 225.03 256.93 12.33
5.66 4.70 226.32 252.91 12.22
5.85 4.80 230.67 252.40 12.08
6.02 4.90 235.62 252.55 11.96
6.21 5.00 235.82 247.71 11.95
6.40 5.10 236.01 243.05 11.93
6.58 5.20 240.67 243.08 11.93
6.78 5.30 240.07 237.90 11.98
6.96 5.40 239.99 233.42 11.96
7.17 5.50 246.20 235.10 11.97
7.38 5.60 241.98 226.95 12.00
7.58 5.70 241.23 222.27 11.99
7.78 5.80 245.72 222.51 11.93
8.00 5.90 240.75 214.31 11.84
8.23 6.00 236.90 207.37 11.76
8.45 6.10 234.73 202.10 11.71
8.68 6.20 242.56 205.48 11.70
8.92 6.30 239.01 199.26 11.67
9.15 6.40 238.72 195.91 11.63
9.41 6.50 231.36 186.94 11.59
9.65 6.60 233.79 186.04 11.61
9.91 6.70 235.66 184.74 11.68
10.17 6.80 232.90 179.88 11.66
10.43 6.90 231.75 176.40 11.62
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 10.43 6.90 246.20 261.46 14.63
MIN: 0.58 2.20 54.70 130.58 11.59

you can clearly see how choppy my SAFCII tune is, partially because i refuse to make big adjustments with it, and partly cause i just dont have the skill to tune like toyota does...
on the contrary, you can see how nice and clean jeffs run is.

[lagos]

i would say that you did a really good job with just an safc tune. you stay at 10-12ish afr and thats whats important. not like some other 5sfTe dynos we used to see.


can you post that bone stock usdm mr2 dyno in the same text mode, so we can see how that compares?

[presure2]

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: C:\DynoRuns\95T bone stock.drf
Run Title: '95 MR2
Run Notes:
Run Date: 4/3/2006 7:15:39 PM

95T bone stock.drf: 70.63 °F 30.24 in-Hg Humidity: 53 % STD: 1.00 Average Gear Ratio: 55.46

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.85 2.50 50.86 106.85 15.60
1.36 2.60 61.52 124.28 15.34
1.80 2.70 68.05 132.37 14.35
2.26 2.80 75.77 142.12 12.82
2.65 2.90 85.60 155.02 11.65
3.04 3.00 93.43 163.57 10.91
3.40 3.10 100.89 170.93 10.27
3.74 3.20 104.62 171.71 10.00
4.09 3.30 110.50 175.87 10.00
4.43 3.40 113.98 176.07 10.00
4.78 3.50 119.69 179.61 10.00
5.12 3.60 121.61 177.42 10.00
5.47 3.70 124.32 176.47 10.00
5.81 3.80 129.46 178.93 10.00
6.16 3.90 131.17 176.65 10.00
6.50 4.00 138.23 181.50 10.00
6.84 4.10 142.64 182.72 10.00
7.16 4.20 143.76 179.77 10.00
7.54 4.30 144.58 176.59 10.00
7.87 4.40 147.56 176.14 10.00
8.24 4.50 149.80 174.84 10.00
8.60 4.60 150.02 171.28 10.00
8.94 4.70 152.14 170.01 10.00
9.34 4.80 151.23 165.48 10.00
9.69 4.90 155.65 166.83 10.00
10.05 5.00 158.27 166.25 10.00
10.44 5.10 161.58 166.40 10.00
10.82 5.20 166.26 167.93 10.00
11.19 5.30 162.17 160.70 10.00
11.61 5.40 165.36 160.84 10.00
11.99 5.50 166.91 159.39 10.00
12.39 5.60 162.62 152.52 10.00
12.80 5.70 165.01 152.04 10.00
13.22 5.80 164.64 149.09 10.00
13.66 5.90 160.89 143.23 10.00
14.12 6.00 164.65 144.10 10.00
14.57 6.10 163.87 141.12 10.00
15.04 6.20 156.69 132.77 10.00
15.53 6.30 155.03 129.25 10.00
16.07 6.40 151.46 124.30 10.00
16.59 6.50 148.75 120.19 10.00
17.16 6.60 150.66 119.89 10.00
17.71 6.70 148.77 116.62 10.00
18.30 6.80 144.67 111.74 10.00
18.90 6.90 142.09 108.15 10.00
19.50 7.00 138.22 103.71 10.00
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 19.50 7.00 166.91 182.72 15.60
MIN: 0.85 2.50 50.86 103.71 10.00

full off the chart rich by 3100 rpm..lol

[lagos]

thats just nuts

now we know why the jdm ecu gains 20hp or so at the same boost levels.

[Supersprynt]

Whoa.

[lagos]

can a wideband even real less then 10:1 ?