cold start time injector switch, first start of the morning is a rough one Options

[brianforster]

so art and i were talking and we both seem to have the same problem, the first start of a morning when its not really cold or not really hot and the car seems to bog out, maybe requiring 2 or 3 cranks and then from then on during the day it fires up first time.

has anyone else ever experienced this with their swap?

art thinks (and i agree) that it is the cold start time injector switch, but that is an 80 dollar replacement from toyota, so if anyone else has had this problem or has any other ideas, id like to hear them.

[presure2]

find a car that has the same switch in the junkyard, and test your theory!
i picked up like 4 coolant temp switches from my local junker off diffrent 'yotas for my cousins deuce a couple weeks ago...5$ covered it

[brianforster]

so id take off all the sensors on the thermostat housing in the junk yard? lol

unless someone knows a noticeable difference between that, the coolant temp gauge, and the coolant temp ecu switches

This post has been edited by brianforster: May 14, 2006 - 7:56 PM

[lagos]

find a car that has the same switch in the junkyard, and test your theory!
i picked up like 4 coolant temp switches from my local junker off diffrent 'yotas for my cousins deuce a couple weeks ago...5$ covered it

problem with that is that the 3s has different resistance numbers then a normal 5sfe youll find in a yard.

[presure2]

according to the epc, and partznet, the 5s one, and the 3s one of the same year should be interchangeable.

partznet listing

[lagos]

hmm good stuff. ill have to try to find one off a 5sfe and try it out.

why are the last 2 digits different in the part numbers?

This post has been edited by lagos: May 15, 2006 - 11:51 AM

[Batman722]

hmm good stuff. ill have to try to find one off a 5sfe and try it out.

why are the last 2 digits different in the part numbers?

the first one is for a st182 and the second is for the at180 (ST)

[brianforster]

what about a 7afe one?

[eggman40]

so art and i were talking and we both seem to have the same problem, the first start of a morning when its not really cold or not really hot and the car seems to bog out, maybe requiring 2 or 3 cranks and then from then on during the day it fires up first time.

has anyone else ever experienced this with their swap?

art thinks (and i agree) that it is the cold start time injector switch, but that is an 80 dollar replacement from toyota, so if anyone else has had this problem or has any other ideas, id like to hear them.

I have the same problem

[brianforster]

can someone compare 7afe part numbers?

[presure2]

no its not the same.

[CilverSeliST205]

so art and i were talking and we both seem to have the same problem, the first start of a morning when its not really cold or not really hot and the car seems to bog out, maybe requiring 2 or 3 cranks and then from then on during the day it fires up first time.

has anyone else ever experienced this with their swap?

art thinks (and i agree) that it is the cold start time injector switch, but that is an 80 dollar replacement from toyota, so if anyone else has had this problem or has any other ideas, id like to hear them.

I have the same problem

x2, but only when its like below 35 degrees

[lagos]

so it seems i fixed the problem on my car.

i managed to get another sensor from a junk yard. my original sensor is #89462-20020, with a white harness plug (on the sensor itself, the wiring harness plug is brown) and it says its its a 7k resistor. the new one i found is part number 89462-20030 with a brown plug and it says its a 4k resistor. it came out of some random toyota, but the wiring harness plugs right in. i installed it and the car starts right up on 1st crank. ill have to give it a few more days of cold/hot starts to make sure the lower resistor dosnt cause a problem, but so far it seems to work well. ill report back again in a few days if anything has changed.

the funny thing is, when i took out my old sensor and tested it to the bgb specs, it seems to be totally within spec! maybe the contacts were not making a good connection or something else was going on, because it seems that is was in fact the cause of the problem.

[brianforster]

awesome art, another common swap problem nailed shut (well, almost)

[burneeed]

yah this is a common problem and Sometimes I sit in the morning... its got to be early when its cold but not too cold... it boggs acts really goofy. Went to check it and the afm was hanging by a thread.... but I figured thats why it was doing that... sometimes it takes 2-3x to crank afterward.. its very weird... But it always cranks its not something I would want to pay 80 dollars for if it only happens once a week.

[lagos]

yah this is a common problem and Sometimes I sit in the morning... its got to be early when its cold but not too cold... it boggs acts really goofy. Went to check it and the afm was hanging by a thread.... but I figured thats why it was doing that... sometimes it takes 2-3x to crank afterward.. its very weird... But it always cranks its not something I would want to pay 80 dollars for if it only happens once a week.

if its just a starting problem, then its the sensor i just replaced.... BUT, if it runs really bad once its already started up and the problem goes away once the motor comes up to temp, then its the green temp sensor right next to the one for the cold stars.

also, you afm needs to be secure and air tight, or the car will never run right.

[Rjb23]

I have this problem but only after it rains really good and the car sits over night. What happens is it will fire up but it won't come up to the right idle it will only idle to about 300 or 400 until I give it gas then the idle will jump up to 1700 or so until it starts to warm up. I think my temp sensor is starting to go.

[lagos]

I have this problem but only after it rains really good and the car sits over night. What happens is it will fire up but it won't come up to the right idle it will only idle to about 300 or 400 until I give it gas then the idle will jump up to 1700 or so until it starts to warm up. I think my temp sensor is starting to go.

yeah thats the cold start injector time switch problem. over time it will get worse and worse.

[eggman40]

I have this problem but only after it rains really good and the car sits over night. What happens is it will fire up but it won't come up to the right idle it will only idle to about 300 or 400 until I give it gas then the idle will jump up to 1700 or so until it starts to warm up. I think my temp sensor is starting to go.

yeah thats the cold start injector time switch problem. over time it will get worse and worse.

Man this is so weird, it almost seems as though its happening to everyone at once. This morning it took 3 turns to get it on, finally when i got it on it sputtered and turned off. this happend 3 times. If you have could you post a pic of the sensor? maybe mine is going bad as well. Like you said it gets worse overtime.

[chacha]

maybe this can help me too...what does it look like and where it is located...my idle is very low...doesn't start high at all in the mornings...i need to floor it and keep it gased for the car to sound normal...or else it bogs like it's going to die, i want a strong normal start...just ONE CLICK!
If you can take pictures and tell us what to do and how to do fix it...i would greatly appreciate...

ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR Speedometer fixing? I ran a Cops' Speedometer Checker and i was running at 70MPH and was around 4.5PRM...but accordingly to the cops' device, it measured me going @60MPH only...any help? How do i get this straighten out?

[lagos]

http://mr2.noegruts.com/engine/engine02s.jpg

thats a pic of the time switch location. its has a brown harness plug connected to it, and is right behind the coolant temp sensor (green harness plug). just unscrew it and screw a new one on. do this when the car is cold, or youll get burned with coolant.

i just fired mine up again for the 3rd cold morning in a row. starts perfectly on one crank and the problem is totally fixed for me ! 5bucks at a junk yard, well spent!

[eggman40]

http://mr2.noegruts.com/engine/engine02s.jpg

thats a pic of the time switch location. its has a brown harness plug connected to it, and is right behind the coolant temp sensor (green harness plug). just unscrew it and screw a new one on. do this when the car is cold, or youll get burned with coolant.

i just fired mine up again for the 3rd cold morning in a row. starts perfectly on one crank and the problem is totally fixed for me ! 5bucks at a junk yard, well spent!

the link isnt working but i have an idea where to find it.

Thanks again.

[chacha]

Doing this really helped me out with the help of Jeff's pic and guide...if you are having some trouble starting up early in the morning, where the car bogs on and off...

1. Remove the whole Throttle body piece from intake manifold

2. try removing the IAc attached to the throttle body, unscrew the four small screws that holds IAC in place..

3. Clean the IAC with some B-12 Carb formula with a Metal small brush to brush off all the black gunk stuck in the small holes in the IAC...since you are doing this, might as well clean your throttle body and intake manifold to your best ability with some of the Chemical (B-12 Carb formula)

4. Let it dry for 10 minutes and attached everything back together...

This should solve problem...better air flow and suction...stronger the car is at recieving a better idling at higher RPM...

*note: if you are unexperience and don't know much and scared to do it (like me)...it will take a while...more than 4 hours of frustration and anger...because of bolts that won't come lose...if that is the case... use a VICE-GRIP TOOL to get the small bolts/nuts out and replace it with M5-.8 nuts/bolts...preferrably the 5mm x 16 should do the trick...found at home depot...$0.75 On the other hand, if you know what to do, less than 15 minutes for everything to work out fine

**I just took my whole throttle piece to a shell mechanic store to have them help me turn the stubborn nuts/bolts off from my IAC connected to the Throttle Body...using their VICE-GRIP TOOL....didn't charge...they just twist it and turned it out for me...

I haven't had the chance to ride it and test it in the mornings...but i will update. REMEMBER, this is just one way to help, if this doesn't help out at all....might be your small THERMOSTATS that's messed up, or some other parts....this took me a while to find the solutions to solve this darn problem...hope it helps you guys...if in doubt, aim me @ chasquare...

This post has been edited by chacha: May 31, 2006 - 12:07 AM

[6gsillyca]

Sorry to bring this thread back, but are the sensors between the 5sfe and the 3's interchangeable, even though they have different resistance numbers?

Are the coolant sensor also interchangeable as well?

Can someone tell me what the sensor on the back of the neck (on the 3's) that has only one wire going to it is? Is it the sensor for the dummy light?

[Punisher]

I find it interesting how you guys have cold start issues.. I removed my cold start system and have no issues .. it fires right up.. however from time to time I'll have hot re-start issues... requiring more cranking than usual.. a little throttle play helps it..

[6gsillyca]

Alright I know this is a silly question but, how do you take the sensor out? I hot the harness plug out but dont know how to remove the sensor itself. Does just the plastic base unscrew or does the metal nut attached underneath the plastic base unscrew? If it is the metal nut, how do you get a wernch/socket in that tiny space?

Also what is that little metal "hook" that is right next to the sensors. It is bolted to the engine. It is in the middle/right half of the pic. Can I take this out? I find it hard to fit my fat hands into that small space with that "hook" thing there.

[lagos]

I find it interesting how you guys have cold start issues.. I removed my cold start system and have no issues .. it fires right up.. however from time to time I'll have hot re-start issues... requiring more cranking than usual.. a little throttle play helps it..

if you have to crank your car more then once, under any temp condition, then thats because of the time switch. on my car, i would start fine in the winter, but have to crank it a few times in the spring. replacing the sensor fixed the problem.


6gsillyca..... unplug the harness plug. then use a wrench not a wrachet to unscrew that sensor by the metal base. do it when the car is cold, or you will burn yourself.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jan 8, 2007 - 1:15 PM

[Punisher]

I find it interesting how you guys have cold start issues.. I removed my cold start system and have no issues .. it fires right up.. however from time to time I'll have hot re-start issues... requiring more cranking than usual.. a little throttle play helps it..

if you have to crank your car more then once, under any temp condition, then thats because of the time switch. on my car, i would start fine in the winter, but have to crank it a few times in the spring. replacing the sensor fixed the problem.


6gsillyca..... unplug the harness plug. then use a wrench not a wrachet to unscrew that sensor by the metal base. do it when the car is cold, or you will burn yourself.

But that time switch is for the cold start injector... which I don't have...

[6gsillyca]

Thanks Art. I got the water temp sensor (green harness plug) and the cold start injector time switch (brown harness plug) out. How much coolant is supposed to leak out? After I took the cold start sensor out, almost a cup has leaked out already. Is that normal? Can you also update me on how your 4k resistor is working? Have you had any problems with the reduced resistance?


Does anyone have any input on the "hook" thing? You can see the bolt that is holding it to the engine in the bottom left of the pic. At first I thought it was a support for when you pull the engine, but it seems a bit too thin/flimsy for that.



This post has been edited by 6gsillyca: Jan 10, 2007 - 1:43 AM

[brianforster]

i believe when our 5sfe's came out toyota no longer used cold start injectors but just cold start fuel maps.

[6gsillyca]

The bgb off mr2oc has a section for the 5sfe cold start injector/time switch.

I want to try switching out the CSITS between the 3's and the 5sfe and see if it makes any difference.

[lagos]

Thanks Art. I got the water temp sensor (green harness plug) and the cold start injector time switch (brown harness plug) out. How much coolant is supposed to leak out? After I took the cold start sensor out, almost a cup has leaked out already. Is that normal? Can you also update me on how your 4k resistor is working? Have you had any problems with the reduced resistance?


Does anyone have any input on the "hook" thing? You can see the bolt that is holding it to the engine in the bottom left of the pic. At first I thought it was a support for when you pull the engine, but it seems a bit too thin/flimsy for that.

4k resistor? you mean the difference in resistance ratings of the two sensors? it works ok. car starts right up on first crank, ever time. but i can kind of tell that its not 110% what you would get from the proper sensor. but thats just me being picky.

[6gsillyca]

if it starts up every time, first try, then what is not 110% about it? How would the "proper" sensor be different?

Where does it say what resistance it is? Does the 89462-20020 plug have the resistance labeled on it?

[lagos]

if it starts up every time, first try, then what is not 110% about it? How would the "proper" sensor be different?

Where does it say what resistance it is? Does the 89462-20020 plug have the resistance labeled on it?

its kind of hard to explain it. its something you know by feel of how the car starts up. if you look at the sensor itself, it will say the resistance right on it.

[presure2]

The bgb off mr2oc has a section for the 5sfe cold start injector/time switch.

I want to try switching out the CSITS between the 3's and the 5sfe and see if it makes any difference.

the mr2 used the equivlent of a 5th gen 5sfe, which does have the CSI.
the 94+ 5sfe does not have a cold start injector.

[6gsillyca]

Which sensors are these then (94 celica 5sfe)





BTW How much coolant is supposed to leak out? Overnight a TON came out. I have a huge puddle underneath my car now. I hope it was just because it was a little on the "full" side to begin with.

This post has been edited by 6gsillyca: Jan 11, 2007 - 12:46 PM

[6gsillyca]

Sorry to bring it back again but, does anyone know if there is a different part number for the jdm mr2 and the usdm mr2? Also what the different numbers are for the various years.

I called the dealership up today and gave them the 89462-20020 and was told that was for a 90/91 mr2. He then continued to tell me that the part number for a 93 is 89462-20040, even though the part I pulled from my engine was a 20020. Any idea's?

[lagos]

just get the same one as the motor had before.

my motor is a 90 and it originally had a 89462-20020 sensor.

[6gsillyca]

Normally I would, but my motor *should* be a 93, and those origionally should come with a 89462-20040 sensor.

I think it might have gotten switched out along the way somewhere, and thats whats giving me issues.

[jgreening]

Normally I would, but my motor *should* be a 93, and those origionally should come with a 89462-20040 sensor.

I think it might have gotten switched out along the way somewhere, and thats whats giving me issues.

The clip was sold as a 93 and I am positive that the intake manifold is a 93.

[6gsillyca]

I think the engine is a 93 myself too, but I think the PO before you swapped out the CSITS with that of an earlier model (90-91, same engine as art, he has same part nimber as I currently have) because the part number for a 93 is different than what is in there now.