Feeler GB: Traction Control Bars, For those with power or with plans to get power Options

[jgreening]

I may see if Speed-source is willing to make us some traction control bars. Carl Crawford owns Speed-source and his fabrication skills are absolutely top notch. I am sure this will be a one time thing because of the low number of folks making any power. In other words, if you don't get it now, you likely won't be able to. I suspect the price will be in the $350 range. Post up if you are interested. If there are enough people, I will contact him and I suspect he will make them for us. I am looking for at least 8 people.

1. Jay


See this thread for more info:

Traction Thread

Here is a picture of a Full Race traction control bar:



This post has been edited by jgreening: May 23, 2006 - 11:25 AM

[Kadett]

How much do you think shipping will be to the Netherlands?

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)

[AllTrac96]

this sounds great i just read the whole other thread. im down for this jay. just get a solid price.

This post has been edited by AllTrac96: May 23, 2006 - 6:14 PM

[jgreening]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. ________ (AllTrac96)

[AllTrac96]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)

[Defgeph]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff



So we group buy together again huh Greening..... Thanks for putting this together.

[jgreening]

Your welcome but where are the rest of the high hp NE guys in this GB? Manny? Art? Erik? BBoy?

How about Nik?

[presure2]

sorry, jay, i dont have $$ to get in on this right now.

[nik]

whats the time frame on these being actually made and sent? 3 months 6 months

[BBoYRuGGeD]

whats the time frame on these being actually made and sent? 3 months 6 months

^ ditto, also im trying to read up on how these things really work. dont get me wrong tho im interested and will keep an eye out on this

bboy

This post has been edited by BBoYRuGGeD: May 24, 2006 - 2:52 PM

[jgreening]

whats the time frame on these being actually made and sent? 3 months 6 months

I am not sure but I would say in the 2-4 month range.

[jgreening]

I spoke with Carl and he can make these for our cars. He will give me a final price when he finds out how many people are interested. This feeler will be open for a couple weeks and then I will tell him how many we have. I will then get a price and see if everyone is in. A deposit will be required at that time.

[Kadett]

Like i said, also interested but just want to know the shipping rates to the Netherlands. Maybe I have someone here that also want them for his 2nd gen 3s-gte swap.

[presure2]

jay, i am VERY much interested, but money is EXTREMELY tight right now.
count me in as "interested".
depending on how long they take to produce, that may give me enough time to come up with some scratch.

[brianforster]

i agree with manny, very interested.. just not sure if i can afford it

[jgreening]

Like i said, also interested but just want to know the shipping rates to the Netherlands. Maybe I have someone here that also want them for his 2nd gen 3s-gte swap.

Kadett, I have no idea how much shipping would be to the Netherlands. If you want to PM me a price, I can estimate the package size and weight and get a "rough" estimate for you.

[jgreening]

bump to see if there is more interest. We need a few more to make this worth Carl's time.

[lagos]

sorry i cant do it. too broke right now

[CilverSeliST205]

come on people you have spent so much money on your cars, to make them more powerful, don't cheap out on something that will let you use that power. I believe that the main issue here is that this product has no reviews since it has not been made for 6gc yet, we do not know how much will it help, will it be worth the money, and will it put too much stress on susp. to mess things up and/or make maintenance tiresome.

The only way to answer these questions is have the guy build one for testing and if it would prove worthy $350 then i don't see a reason why people would 3s people spend that $$ on a gt4 bumper or jdm tails, instead on something as functional as a good traction bar.

Jay, can he build you one for beta-testing ?

[jgreening]

come on people you have spent so much money on your cars, to make them more powerful, don't cheap out on something that will let you use that power. I believe that the main issue here is that this product has no reviews since it has not been made for 6gc yet, we do not know how much will it help, will it be worth the money, and will it put too much stress on susp. to mess things up and/or make maintenance tiresome.

The only way to answer these questions is have the guy build one for testing and if it would prove worthy $350 then i don't see a reason why people would 3s people spend that $$ on a gt4 bumper or jdm tails, instead on something as functional as a good traction bar.

Jay, can he build you one for beta-testing ?

I spoke to Carl about the traction bar. He indicated that it would not be a problem to build and would be functional (e.g. properly keep suspension geometry to optimize traction at all times). He will not build any unless there is a group buy with a minimum purchase. All of the time and expense for a manufacurer is in the prototype - not the production pieces.

[playr158]

i'd be interested

[Kadett]

Still interested, although i dont have any problems with Traction/wheelhopping or cornering.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

im "interested" and leaning more towards "im in" depending on the time frame were looking at

bboy

[jgreening]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff
5. BBoy
6. Manny (maybe)
7. Brianforster (maybe)
8. Kadett
9. Dan

Ok, I think this may be enough to get Carl to give me a firm price and some info on design and ETA. I will contact him and report back. He can use my car as a test mule as I will be there at the end of June getting a second muffler added in. I would guess we are looking at an August or later delivery.

Jay

[jgreening]

I just talked to Carl. He needs my car to determine whether he can make these bolt-on. Until he has the car, he will not be able to give me info on price or design. This thread will be open for a few more weeks until I go to see him. (my muffler is currently on backorder)

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff
5. BBoy
6. Manny (maybe)
7. Brianforster (maybe)
8. Kadett
9. Dan

Ok, I think this may be enough to get Carl to give me a firm price and some info on design and ETA. I will contact him and report back. He can use my car as a test mule as I will be there at the end of June getting a second muffler added in. I would guess we are looking at an August or later delivery.

Jay

I was just doing search in members rides for keywords "swap" "3sgte" "turbo" and i found that 70-150 members have these keywords in their profile. Assuming that 50% of that "plan on swap/turbo" and the other 50% actually did swap or turbo that means there is 35-75 members with traction issues In close future (this year) the demand for these will be even greater. After initial design is done the production cost should be way smaller, so Jay, mention that to Carl if he will be unhappy about results of this feeler GB. I bet that next year there would be at least 20 members who would like to get down on another batch of the bars.

Nik and Lagos are you guys even remotely interested? August seems like plenty of time to come up with some $$

[jgreening]

Carl will be interested if those listed don't drop out.

[Kadett]

Me never drop out. Celica 4 life

[jgreening]

What exactly do traction control bars do?

A few people have asked me this.

First, read the full-race article that is posted (reading that is the long answer).

Full-Race Traction Bars Article

The short answer is that they reduce wheel spin for greater traction in FWD cars that have enough horsepower to spin the tires.

The medium answer is that the lower control arms on the front of our cars have two rubber bushings that are designed to absorb vibrations in the suspension components to give a fairly smooth ride - similar to rubber motor mounts. Like rubber motor mounts, under higher than normal torque, the rubber bushings flex. In the case of motor mounts, this causes the engine to rock back and forth in the engine bay and eventually wear out the mounts. When the rubber bushings on the lower control arms flex, the wheel alignment changes momentarily (generally toe-in but also positive and negative camber - particularly in corners). This means that the contact patch of the tires are either not lined up straight or that less than the full contact patch is firmly planted on the pavement. What happens? The wheels spin on the ground easier. The easiest fix would be to replace the rubber bushings with brass ones but then you would add alot of unwanted vibration to the car and in the cabin. To address the problem without getting unwanted vibration, the traction bars hold the lower control arms in place to keep a constant suspension geometry and improve traction to the best extent possible (all other things being equal).

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by jgreening: May 30, 2006 - 8:33 PM

[jgreening]

bump.

[eggman40]

Interested, but the price is a bit steep (maybe it will go down?) . Ill try to set some money aside for when your guy decides he will begin making them.

This post has been edited by eggman40: Jun 2, 2006 - 3:28 PM

[bigal004321]

Im in!

bigal

[jgreening]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff
5. BBoy
6. Manny (maybe)
7. Brianforster (maybe)
8. Kadett
9. Dan
10. Eggman (maybe)
11. Big Al

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jun 2, 2006 - 7:07 PM

[pimped6gen]

I'M 100% IN....

[jgreening]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff
5. BBoy
6. Manny (maybe)
7. Brianforster (maybe)
8. Kadett
9. Dan
10. _________Eggman (maybe)
11. Big Al
12. _________ Pimped6gen

[playr158]

1. Jay
2. Jerry (CilverSeliST205)
3. Eric (AllTrac96)
4. Jeff
5. BBoy
6. Manny (maybe)
7. Brianforster (maybe)
8. Kadett
9. Dan
10. _________Eggman (maybe)
11. Big Al
12. Brandon (Pimped6gen)

[jgreening]

Bump. My muffler will be here today so my trip to speed source will be SOON! Anyone else interested, post up. I think we may be able to do MUCH better than the $350 price.

[jgreening]

bump for more participants. I will be scheduling my trip to speedsource this week.

[jgreening]

I am going to try to go to Speed-Source friday. Last bump for more participants.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

let us know how it goes jay looking forward to this thing happening

bboy

[snapshotgt]

BUMP...Any news?

~snap

[jgreening]

Sorry guys. I didn't make it Friday. My trip will be delayed until July as I am going on vacation for a week next Friday and work will be crazy leading up to that.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

its cool jay...just let us all know whats up when the time comes

bboy

[brad1103]

sounds like a plan to me, pm me if it happens

[nik]

pm me also

[CilverSeliST205]

Any news ?

[jgreening]

Got back from vacation Sunday guys. I have been swamped at work (due to the large pile waiting for me on my desk) and I have not had a chance to schedule my appointment yet. I would like to get over there in the coming days. Sorry for the delay...

[jgreening]

I am going to speed-source tomorrow morning so I should have something to report when I get back!

[CilverSeliST205]

I am going to speed-source tomorrow morning so I should have something to report when I get back!

Its tommorow morning already and the anticipation is killing me

[jgreening]

I have fairly bad news on the traction bars. These pieces need to be attached to the front cross member. Unlike Hondas, our cars do not have any "bolt-on" mounting points. As such, the only way to make these pieces for our cars would be to make a welding plate on the end of the each side to be attached to the front cross member. The area where the welding plates would be installed is circled in red in this picture.



The bottom line is that I suspect that because these pieces cannot be made as bolt-ons, interest may fade dramatically. However, considering that most of us that want these have fairly modified cars, perhaps getting the welding done to two small plates would not be that big of a deal. I certainly don't think it would be.

With that said, you need to let me know if you would still be interested in these pieces even though they are not bolt-ons. Add your name to the list if you are:

1. Jay

[presure2]

1. Jay
2. manny

[nik]

1. Jay
2. manny
3. NIK

[CilverSeliST205]

1. Jay
2. manny
3. NIK
4. Jerry

[playr158]

1. Jay
2. manny
3. NIK
4. Jerry
5. Dan

[jgreening]

Hmmm....maybe these will be made afterall.

[jgreening]

I need 8 people on this to make it a go.

[playr158]

could you give us more info on where we'd have to get the welding done on the car so we can judge the difficulty and priority of the spot..
and did they give you a ruff cost estimate?

[jgreening]

could you give us more info on where we'd have to get the welding done on the car so we can judge the difficulty and priority of the spot..
and did they give you a ruff cost estimate?

We didn't talk price on Friday but he told me before that he could make these at or less than the cost that full-race was selling them for. The two plates will need to be welded to the back (or under) side of the front cross member. It will be slightly inside of the apex of the front control arms. It would be SUPER easy for any competent welder. If the group buy goes through, there will be directions and measurements on exactly where to place it (although given the length of the traction bar arms, you probably wouldn't need the measurements).

[Defgeph]

1. Jay
2. Manny
3. Nik
4. Jerry
5. Dan
6. Jeff

[bigal004321]

i am still in!

Bigal

[playr158]

my friend just got something similar for his MR2....and now his car is pretty much a straight line ride....my concentration is going to be road coarse....so my question now is will this part be a drag racing piece that will hurt the handling that road coarse requires?

[jgreening]

my friend just got something similar for his MR2....and now his car is pretty much a straight line ride....my concentration is going to be road coarse....so my question now is will this part be a drag racing piece that will hurt the handling that road coarse requires?

This will not effect handling at all. The only thing it will do is keep the tires from toeing in, and thereby being more prone to losing traction, on hard accelleration.

1. Jay
2. Manny
3. Nik
4. Jerry
5. Dan
6. Jeff
7. Al

[playr158]

thanks for clearing that up JG

[bigal004321]

since there is still some fabrication that needs to be completed upon installation, will the TCB be less expensive?

Bigal

This post has been edited by bigal004321: Jul 12, 2006 - 11:59 AM

[jgreening]

since there is still some fabrication that needs to be completed upon installation, will the TCB be less expensive?

Bigal

No. The only thing different from the manufacturer's perspective is that the connecting point need not have a hole drilled for a bolt. I doubt that would save them much money.

[jgreening]

I spoke to Carl today about pricing. He needs to price out the component parts and then he will get us a price. He has ALOT of work right now so we may have to wait a bit on this.

[CilverSeliST205]

So now that you are selling your celi we can folrget about these TBs ? Or maybe if i get my exhaust done at speedsource and carl will have some free time the production will still be possible ?

[jgreening]

So now that you are selling your celi we can folrget about these TBs ? Or maybe if i get my exhaust done at speedsource and carl will have some free time the production will still be possible ?

This is on hold as far as I am concerned. We'll see what happens to my car. Its possible that I might keep it and continue the build including the traction bars. If you are having an exhaust fabbed up by Carl, ask him about it. Good luck Jerry.

[CilverSeliST205]

This is on hold as far as I am concerned. We'll see what happens to my car. Its possible that I might keep it and continue the build including the traction bars. If you are having an exhaust fabbed up by Carl, ask him about it. Good luck Jerry.

Thanks Jay! Im happy to hear that there is still some hope for the celi

This post has been edited by CilverSeliST205: Aug 3, 2006 - 9:30 PM

[jgreening]

This is on hold as far as I am concerned. We'll see what happens to my car. Its possible that I might keep it and continue the build including the traction bars. If you are having an exhaust fabbed up by Carl, ask him about it. Good luck Jerry.

Thanks Jay! Im happy to hear that there is still some hope for the celi

Well, I am not going to give it away. I have two people interested at the moment and one tells me he wants it subject to some issues on his end. We will see.