Celicas?....slow? Options

[rzanology]

This is something that’s been in the back of my mind every time I take my car our for a spirited drive. I keep remembering people saying "those cars are slow" or "our cars are slow." I'm have a veeery hard time understanding where they are coming from. Back when I had the 7a in my car...I could see that point to a certain extent. But even against other 1.8...the 7a still fairs very well. Now 3 weeks after my 5s swap....I find my car is ridiculously fast. It doesn’t make sense how fast this car is. I've had everything from 2000 maximas...GSRs and even civic with b18 swaps trying to catch up. And this is with a slipping clutch. The car gets to 100 every time with out a problem. When compared to other cars in its class like the eclipse or even the 240....the specs are pretty much even. Not to mention the celica is way lighter than both. My question is....why do people keep saying stock celicas are slow?

If people knew what strong performers these cars were and the type of potential they have...they'd be a lot more popular.

[Akimbo]

GSR's and b18 civics?

With all due respect, a Celica will lose to either of those. I also find it hard to believe we're any faster than a Maxima. Maybe you should drive something else to base your opinion on. I think 5SFE's are slow, yes.

[rzanology]

a few weeks ago i was with you on that one. Have you tried any of them to see where you fit in? I have 3 maximas under my belt....95...2000 and one of the other ones...think it was a 92 or 93. There were always people in the car with me or on the road to watch it. I think from a rolling start the 2.2 is nothing to play with.

but you still never answered the question....why do you think they are slow?

This post has been edited by rzanology: Jun 14, 2006 - 3:43 PM

[CelicaST202]

7a and 5s not fast enough, unless its 3SGTE or SR20DET.

[Michelle95celica]

I have the 2.2 5SFE in mine and before getting my Celica I had a '96 Chrysler Sebring LXi with the 2.5 V6 in it, that seemed pretty fast but my Celica seems faster, my buddy has a '93 Taurus (not a SHO) with a V6 and he can keep up with my '98 Neon (SOHC/Auto) but he can't beat my Celica, I pull away from him with ease...then again my car has no backseat and no interior materials from the front seats on back, LOL.... I have raced a few local cars including an '00 Civic SI, a mid '90s Integra, a '95 or '96 Prelude, and a few ZX2s and beat them all, none of them have any major mods besides a muffler, intake, maybe a header but then again neither do I, besides I have Nology Hotwires, new performance plugs, an Apexi muffler, and a worn Weapon R intake, so I would estimate that my car probably has about 145-150 HP, probably a little bit les but it pulls hard and gets to triple digits fairly smoothly, it's not superfast but it does perform better that you'd think a litle 4cyl would, some of my friends thought of it as slow too...I do however want to turbo it just so I can hear that sweet little WHOOSH..chiff chiff chiff...LOL

[Manta5x]

I was near a Chevy Monte Carlo and it took off... it looked like how the enterpise on star trek the next generation looks when it goes into warp.

[j0e_p3t]

my st's pretty fast... until it reaches about 3500 rpm.

[crismillencolin]

After owning a 96 2.0 16v prelude and now a ss1 (3sfe) 2.0 16v celica i think my celica is slow.......it gets to 80-90mph fine but after that its a bit ... ... .. well... ... .... ghey . The prelude shot to 130mph (on private ground) without me even really noticing , i highly doubt the celica (JDM - still 112mph blocked) would even get near that

[fastcelica20]

yeah. another celica vs civic/maxima/etc etc. i must say the 5sfe isn't as slow. its not fast. it's not slow. its just okay. im a pretty average guy (5'9, 165ish lb) and my celica pulls nicely though NOT fast. you guys must be very light if your celica is going fast. but guys put in a 3sgte and you'll zoom zoom zoom.

[thedro]

yeah, when i first got my car (5sfe) i thought it performed the same as a se-r spec v or at least i could keep up wit it and not lose it.. but i raced my cousins se-r spec v which had had headers, cai, totally un restricted exhaust and i realized how foolish i was. mine was totally stock but still my goal was to keep up, and he flew right by me as if i was parked.

i see our cars as a not fast car, but faster than normal cars. ive taken on civics, eclipses, and 240sx's. but they are all stupid ricers, who put fart cans on. and as years go by, faster 4 cyl cars keep comin out. the srt4, rsx s, ser spec v, etc. so our cars seem slower too hahaha.

so i guess our cars can be fast or they can be slow, depending wat u are comparing it wit. since i am around a eclipse gsx (t3/t4 ) , also a 300zx turbo 89, and a modded 96 maxima, my car is the slowest of them all. but its true celicas do have potencial, and i do plan to get some of that potencial out of it.

[trd94]

my st's pretty fast... until it reaches about 3500 rpm.

my st was like that but after turboing it now at 3500rpm the t3 kicks in and pulls like at bat out of hell all the way to 63-6500rpm and in 3rd gear on my auto trann it runs around 123mph then i let it go to overdrive and it wants to keep going but i chicken out still not as fast as my 240sx after i turboed it but that is a differant story

[celicast3sgte]

nevermind... not gonna do it

This post has been edited by celicast3sgte: Jun 14, 2006 - 9:49 PM

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I can live with my 5SFE. Its definately not a fast motor, but it does have nice acceleration under normal driving due to nice low-midrange torque and short gearing. On the highway it accelerates very nicely I think, theres no need to downshift if you need to pass, especially if the revs are above about 3500 rpms. If anybody thinks that its fast though, then I must suggest you drive something with a turbocharger or at least a strong N/A motor.

At the moment I'm not too concerned because my 5SFE with high mileage is running amazingly well. Occasionally I have a little bit of belt chatter at idle, but that can be fixed easily enough. I just changed my oil today though, and I can't believe how smooth and quiet it likes to run with synthetic.

[rzanology]

I can live with my 5SFE. Its definately not a fast motor, but it does have nice acceleration under normal driving due to nice low-midrange torque and short gearing. On the highway it accelerates very nicely I think, theres no need to downshift if you need to pass, especially if the revs are above about 3500 rpms. If anybody thinks that its fast though, then I must suggest you drive something with a turbocharger or at least a strong N/A motor.

At the moment I'm not too concerned because my 5SFE with high mileage is running amazingly well. Occasionally I have a little bit of belt chatter at idle, but that can be fixed easily enough. I just changed my oil today though, and I can't believe how smooth and quiet it likes to run with synthetic.

well said. I've driving a 5sfte....and let me tell you....thats a beast. but for what it is....stock...the 5sfte is a very good engine. plus a light 6g body. its time people stop saying their cars are slow....no you dont have a m3 or sti....but compared to the other options out there....we're not too far behind.

[Glitch001]

I wouldnt say its a fast car, the 5s isnt a very strong motor ( as far as racing goes ) The 3s, 4g63, sr20det all strong imported 4 cylinder. The celica (unless its an all trac or gt4) is slow, but its a BEAUTY of a daily driver. The looks cannot be compared, ya the liftbacks are 2400lbs and convertables 2700 relativly light, but no power to back the weight up. Fwd also hinders the preformance a lot. Unless your talking a stroked 3s with a 5s crank and so on and so on, but still bottom line the car is slow without modifcation. Doesnt stop me from loving the hell out of my car.

But look at the other options within the same price range.
Eclipse Gs-t 2700lbs with a boost loving motor. (crank walk issue)
Mazda rx7 at 2800lbs (same reliablity issue)
ect.
ect.

The celica turns on everytime I want it to, I have absolutly no complaints. the 5s is a reliable motor, doesnt require as much attention as my 3s does in the least. In no way am I bad mouthing this car, you seem to LOVE your car but there is a difference between love and denial. These aren't ultimate driving machines with unlimited potential. In your previous posts it seems you like to street race and compare car vs. car, but the ability of the celica on the 7a and 5s is limited in the means of horsepower (volumetic efficency) its just lacking. But it wasnt designed to be a race car, thats why toyota has the all-trac and gt4...sex on wheels.

This post has been edited by Glitch001: Jun 15, 2006 - 3:22 AM

[ILuvMyCelica95]

you people are all crazy. My car is like driving a pretty dump truck. I cross my finger everytime i have to go up a hill, i swear shes not gunna make it someday.

[Glitch001]

Key word Tina...ITS PRETTY. Wanna sell those headlights?

[Heytalktoryan]

I wouldnt say its a fast car, the 5s isnt a very strong motor ( as far as racing goes ) The 3s, 4g63, sr20det all strong imported 4 cylinder. The celica (unless its an all trac or gt4) is slow, but its a BEAUTY of a daily driver. The looks cannot be compared, ya the liftbacks are 2400lbs and convertables 2700 relativly light, but no power to back the weight up. Fwd also hinders the preformance a lot. Unless your talking a stroked 3s with a 5s crank and so on and so on, but still bottom line the car is slow without modifcation. Doesnt stop me from loving the hell out of my car.

But look at the other options within the same price range.
Eclipse Gs-t 2700lbs with a boost loving motor. (crank walk issue)
Mazda rx7 at 2800lbs (same reliablity issue)
ect.
ect.

The celica turns on everytime I want it to, I have absolutly no complaints. the 5s is a reliable motor, doesnt require as much attention as my 3s does in the least. In no way am I bad mouthing this car, you seem to LOVE your car but there is a difference between love and denial. These aren't ultimate driving machines with unlimited potential. In your previous posts it seems you like to street race and compare car vs. car, but the ability of the celica on the 7a and 5s is limited in the means of horsepower (volumetic efficency) its just lacking. But it wasnt designed to be a race car, thats why toyota has the all-trac and gt4...sex on wheels.

not all eclipse gsts or gsx's have crankwalk, mines still runnign strong at 80k but i do miss my celica, mainly for its looks not for its speed bc it was slow as hell

[burneeed]

yah im going to have to disagree with you on the na 5sfe... Sorry its not a fast motor not is it ment to be. Great for economy though!!........ WHy do you think people swap a 3s motor theres reasons.......speed being one of them

[l19tly]

i have a 2.0 16valve 3sge and mine feels pretty quick its restricted to 112mph but it gets there quick i had a bit of a race with a bmw 330ci and he wasnt pulling away it depends on when u change gear my car limits at 7250rpm if i change at 68oo-7000 it keeps pulling,just depends how you drive it

[Aus]

i have a 2.0 16valve 3sge and mine feels pretty quick its restricted to 112mph but it gets there quick i had a bit of a race with a bmw 330ci and he wasnt pulling away it depends on when u change gear my car limits at 7250rpm if i change at 68oo-7000 it keeps pulling,just depends how you drive it

I feel my old GT was underpowered (3SGE), but the 'T' in 3SGTE in my GT4 makes a world of difference!!! I suppose you get used to the power of the car after a while. Saying that, i kept up with most of honda's best in my GT.

[2003cbgts]

who cares? the celicas not the fasted thing in the world, but its not "slow" either. besides, anybody can make a rusted ****box fast. the celica is much more... badass looks, reliability, history behind it, i love my celicas!!!!!!!

[Kwanza26]

"Slow" is an opinion. "Fast" is an opinion.

[K-ESD]

IMO
the 5SFE is slow, so slow I got frustrated at times. I'd say it's about a lil over the average power of the typical car on the road.

i love my celica tho, i love it so much that i took out that 5SFE and will be replacing it with.... something special

[adamgt-4]

Im quite happy with how mine goes

[playr158]

haha this thread is funny.....i really look back to driving my ST celica and no matter how much i love the car..i really don't know how i ever drove sumthing that slow...i mean 17sec or more in the 1/4 mile i think i run fasteR?!
if you got an st or a gt its pretty much slow if you got a 3sgte,7agte,5sfte or sumthing of that nature you quick...i personally can't wait to get mine back with a 3s under the hood...but i swear off 7a's and 5s's

[crismillencolin]

Im quite happy with how mine goes

yeah yeah yeah , 360bhp.....most would be "quite" happy with that

[ILuvMyCelica95]

Key word Tina...ITS PRETTY. Wanna sell those headlights?

haha no way

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

the 5s stock is good enough... well at least not for racing...

it has good low end power, but it sux after 3500 rpm

lol i swear when im on the freeway going 65+ i try to merge and i cant gain speed when i floor it lol

but yeah, im lookin forward to a 3sgte swap, i hope it pulls like the 5s from a stop.

[shin]

i won't say that mine is really fast but it's definitely not slow

[daazndood]

when i was looking for a car, i was either gonna get either a 6th gen celica or a 98+ integra ls/gs. i got the celica, but its alot slower then an integra. why? the integra is heavier, only has 5 hp more, but the celica has like 18 more ft-lbs or torque. i've researched the 0-60 for the integra ls at about 7.8 and the celica is at like 8.5

[Rayme]

when i was looking for a car, i was either gonna get either a 6th gen celica or a 98+ integra ls/gs. i got the celica, but its alot slower then an integra. why? the integra is heavier, only has 5 hp more, but the celica has like 18 more ft-lbs or torque. i've researched the 0-60 for the integra ls at about 7.8 and the celica is at like 8.5

Integra, make power in the higher RPM, which really help to go faster .

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

[l19tly]

if you want a fast celica buy a 3sgte 6gen celicas look awesome dont forget there not light cars 180bhp pulls it just nicely for my 3sge

[expedition2166]

i'll add this to the mix lol i'll admit i tore a few of the coffee can exaust boys up in my gt vertible granted it wouldnt even get close to hanging with my iroc-z but for a stock 4 banger it was spunky and i enjoyed tearing ass in it and right at 30 mpg nothing much to complain about but it is like this every jap car owner thinks theres is the fastest thing on the street till you pull a old school muscle car with a lil bit of a whisle beside it then most get very shy .................... atleast in my experiances .... so i say let them talk all the sh*t they want if you enjoy it and its yours ....................... f*@k them lol

[daazndood]

when i was looking for a car, i was either gonna get either a 6th gen celica or a 98+ integra ls/gs. i got the celica, but its alot slower then an integra. why? the integra is heavier, only has 5 hp more, but the celica has like 18 more ft-lbs or torque. i've researched the 0-60 for the integra ls at about 7.8 and the celica is at like 8.5

Integra, make power in the higher RPM, which really help to go faster .

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

thanks man! that was very educational

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

when i was looking for a car, i was either gonna get either a 6th gen celica or a 98+ integra ls/gs. i got the celica, but its alot slower then an integra. why? the integra is heavier, only has 5 hp more, but the celica has like 18 more ft-lbs or torque. i've researched the 0-60 for the integra ls at about 7.8 and the celica is at like 8.5

Integra, make power in the higher RPM, which really help to go faster .

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

thats not really true, i smoked a 87 gts with a 3sge in it from a dead stop, both stock and both auto, mine had less horsepower than the gts but mine had more torque, and i smoked em goin like 75+ even tho he was closing in on me when i hit the redline but then it shifted and bam!

This post has been edited by XS4lv1Truch0x: Jun 18, 2006 - 2:34 AM

[Kadett]

3S-GE = Not really slow, but from a stop it takes a while to speed up, once your above the 4800 rpm range its just plain fun.
3S-GTE = Drove it in a GT4, feeled nice but also you could feel the car struggling with the extra 250-300 kg of weight it carries along.
Now a 3rd gen 3S-GTE in FWD GT = VERY FUN indeed pulling away from Impreza's, 200SX, stock MKIII Supra and the GT4 like there nothing

But the gte engines make so much torque at lower range then there NA counterparts that you can't really compare them to eachother.

This post has been edited by Kadett: Jun 18, 2006 - 3:34 AM

[Mr_E]

Integra, make power in the higher RPM, which really help to go faster .

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

You need to know how engines work.

Torque makes the wheels turn. Power is just torque times revs. You are at peak power *once* per gear.

[Rayme]

Integra, make power in the higher RPM, which really help to go faster .

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

You need to know how engines work.

Torque makes the wheels turn. Power is just torque times revs. You are at peak power *once* per gear.

What you said didn't disprove me wrong, it was a general statement that is usually true. I was refering to the torque band obviously, and if you could reader clearer I mention that when its higher in the RPM the more "sporty" or "fast" the engine is. THat being said if both cars are indential and only difference is torque band. A good example is how a relatively torqueless car like a civic SI with a huge 111 ft./lbs. or torque is just going to own a celica with an extraordinaire 145 ft./lbs. of torque.

This post has been edited by Rayme: Jun 18, 2006 - 10:24 AM

[daazndood]

when you guys say 3rd generation 3s-gte you mean the 94-99 gt-4 engine right?

[celicaST]

when you guys say 3rd generation 3s-gte you mean the 94-99 gt-4 engine right?

correct

[nsxtypeR]

Right, that's the engine of the ST205

[daazndood]

thanks guys!

[Dub]

l19tly: against 330ci and he wasnt pullin away? Was it a girl or what? Doesnt seem very realistic mate. You have barely 180hp on front wheels and racing agains someone with 230hp on rear. BMW has some 300Nm and compared to 190 on your celica.. seems like a joke. Sorry, but cant believe he was racing for real.
Or perhaps it was a problem with the driver

[Mr_E]

What you said didn't disprove me wrong, it was a general statement that is usually true. I was refering to the torque band obviously, and if you could reader clearer I mention that when its higher in the RPM the more "sporty" or "fast" the engine is. THat being said if both cars are indential and only difference is torque band. A good example is how a relatively torqueless car like a civic SI with a huge 111 ft./lbs. or torque is just going to own a celica with an extraordinaire 145 ft./lbs. of torque.

You said, and I will quote directly.

If an engine has more torque(ft. lbs.) than HP, its power is made from low to middle. If it has alot more HP than torque, the power is in higher rpm range, and would kill the other engine even if they have same HP.

It's rubbish on about 3 levels.

1) Torque is not power. Torque is instant turning force to the wheels. Power is torque over time.

What you meant to say was "A car that has more torque at a given RPM will pull harder at that RPM". That is correct.

You then say something along the lines of "a car that has a lot more power than torque (ie, it revs higher) will be faster than a lazier or larger engine that revs lower but produces the same headline power."

Which is plain rubbish. Weight for weight, with the same gearing, if the engines do the same amount of peak work (power) they will be as quick at that peak power. What will be different is that the torquier engine will pull the gear better on the way to peak power.

What is usually the case is high revving jap engines run shorter gears to make better use of the revs and headline power figures, and so feel quicker. But two identical engines producing 200bhp, but one at 3000rpm and the other at 10,000rpm pulling the same gear, the high revving lump is going to suffer hugely.

[l19tly]

l19tly: against 330ci and he wasnt pullin away? Was it a girl or what? Doesnt seem very realistic mate. You have barely 180hp on front wheels and racing agains someone with 230hp on rear. BMW has some 300Nm and compared to 190 on your celica.. seems like a joke. Sorry, but cant believe he was racing for real.
Or perhaps it was a problem with the driver

sorry it was a 320ci my mistake about the 330ci although they have 230hp they are not that quick until about 3rd gear i work in a garage and have drove plenty of them