Bad Response, slow take off Options

[94st_santos]

I have a stocked out 94 st and my take off is really slow. This has just been happening recently. I can floor it and more noise than anything is happening. Does anybody know what might be wrong.

For example I can floor it in gravel and it doesn't even burn out, it's kinda scary entering a Hwy. and your barely moving.

[b1gr3d]

milege?

[ZacMan1987]

It's an auto? Torque converter maybe?

[94st_santos]

milege?

just hit 200,000

It's an auto? Torque converter maybe?

yeah it is an auto

give you guys a little 411, the car is used I don't know what # owner I am I recently replaced the coil, rotor, distributor cap, trans. oil + filter. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but I have a cracked exhaust manifold but I'm working on getting headers, but what really bothers me is my brother bought some Throttle Body cleaner and I'm wondering if that might have messed up the IAC valve or if that has something to do with it.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 2, 2006 - 12:36 PM

[Griff]

before i bought mine, it was slow like this, what it was, the local car place topped of the fluids...someone put power steering fluid in the brake reseviour....which made the lines swollen...which made my brakes stick...and obviously greatly reduced the performance...it ended up costing 800 to fix everything and get all new lines, and even pads, cause they were scrwed...this dude drove like this for a while.

...he commented...damn, i thought this thing lost some power...
just some FYI, may be somthing to check out.

[celicaST]

maybe your auto tranny needs to be rebuilt, the clutches and bands might be worn at that mileage.

[94st_santos]

maybe your auto tranny needs to be rebuilt, the clutches and bands might be worn at that mileage.

The tranny seems to be fine I mean nothing really noticeable. I was thinking it was maybe a sensor or valve. Has any body ever had problems with their injectors or there fuel pump, what are some of the symptoms. I was also reading in the chiltons manual about valve lash has anybody ever replaced their shims or had them adjusted. Alot of these parts are pretty pricey and I want to get some ideas before I go and buy them and it's not the problem. Thanks.

[Bitter]

is your timing advancing and your knock sensor working correctly? any abnormal engine noises?

[DomGT]

Exhaust leaks result in a loss of torque (low end power). Our engines need backpressure in the exhaust system. With your leaking exhaust manifold, I can see you losing low end power.

edit: 1 more thing, I bet with that loud exhaust leak your not giving it gas like you used to. I bet at WOT your car is loud as hell.

This post has been edited by DomGT: Jul 2, 2006 - 5:28 PM

[Bitter]

Exhaust leaks result in a loss of torque (low end power). Our engines need backpressure in the exhaust system. With your leaking exhaust manifold, I can see you losing low end power.

edit: 1 more thing, I bet with that loud exhaust leak your not giving it gas like you used to. I bet at WOT your car is loud as hell.

all of that is very true as well. you'd need a pretty signifigant leak to cause as much of a loss of power as he's feeling.

fast way to look for a leak, disable the spark/fuel, plug the tail pipe, crank the engine and pour soapy water on all the pipes, manifolds, and gaskets.


just dont forget to unplug the pipe when you're done! you wouldnt beleive how far and how hard things will shoot!

[DomGT]

all of that is very true as well. you'd need a pretty signifigant leak to cause as much of a loss of power as he's feeling.

fast way to look for a leak, disable the spark/fuel, plug the tail pipe, crank the engine and pour soapy water on all the pipes, manifolds, and gaskets.


just dont forget to unplug the pipe when you're done! you wouldnt beleive how far and how hard things will shoot!

I like the 7A-FE but it does make small power compared to newer engines. I agree you'd have to have 1 hell of leak, but remember his leak is at the manifold! He could be losing a lot more pressure than if the leak was further down the exhaust system. A minor power loss on a 7A=trouble getting on the highway.

[94st_santos]

is your timing advancing and your knock sensor working correctly? any abnormal engine noises?

Yes actually I'd guess a month or two ago I reset the timing becaues there was a slight knocking noise coming from the engine, but that noise is still there and it seems to make alot more noise than other cars would. Any I checked the timing again and it had advance again so I reset it. I haven't checked the knock sensor.

As far as the crack goes, it is leaking but it doesn't seem like enough to take that much power. I want to get a header hopefully order this week. But then again the 7a doesn't have much power to begin with. I saw some patching stuff for cracked manifolds has anybody used it.... if so does it work, may try that before buying anything else to make sure thats the problem.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 2, 2006 - 6:47 PM

[LewFX]

try seafoam in the throttle, gas tank, etc...start it up, blow it out.

[Bitter]

set the timing to base, which is 10 degress below top dead center, change up to a high octane fuel and see if the knocking goes away. if it does then the issue is carbon buildup or something else causing a hotspot. make sure the plugs are the correct heatrange.

[94st_santos]

try seafoam in the throttle, gas tank, etc...start it up, blow it out.

I read a post about seafoam a while back on here, what does it really do and where can I buy it.

[LewFX]

most auto stores carry it, its in a silver can costs about 6 bux, its a super cleaner.

[94st_santos]

set the timing to base, which is 10 degress below top dead center, change up to a high octane fuel and see if the knocking goes away. if it does then the issue is carbon buildup or something else causing a hotspot. make sure the plugs are the correct heatrange.

If I recall right I did use a higher octane because I read that in the chiltons manual but I did'nt see no difference to tell you the truth it felt like I wasted more gas. If it is carbon build up or hotspot what can I do to treat it.

[LewFX]

try the seafoam and tell us how it feels after

[Bitter]

set the timing to base, which is 10 degress below top dead center, change up to a high octane fuel and see if the knocking goes away. if it does then the issue is carbon buildup or something else causing a hotspot. make sure the plugs are the correct heatrange.

If I recall right I did use a higher octane because I read that in the chiltons manual but I did'nt see no difference to tell you the truth it felt like I wasted more gas. If it is carbon build up or hotspot what can I do to treat it.

as lew said, you can try seafoam. follow the directions on the can, but i would omit adding it to the oil.

also try chevron techron in a double-dose.

[94st_santos]

Thanks guys I'll try and get some seafoam asap. But does anybody else have any ideas.

set the timing to base, which is 10 degress below top dead center, change up to a high octane fuel and see if the knocking goes away. if it does then the issue is carbon buildup or something else causing a hotspot. make sure the plugs are the correct heatrange.

What plugs are you talking about?

Oh yeah I said I had a stocked out ST but I also have straight through muffler and NGK iridium spark plugs, this is also a reason I'm wondering why I'm losing so much power. I Probably have like 50 hp now LOL.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 2, 2006 - 9:33 PM

[Bitter]

sparkplugs, sorry. if the plugs are several ranges too hot it could cause knocking.

also pull the plugs and take some good pics of them, post them up. i can take a gander and give you an idea of whats going on in the chamber.

[94st_santos]

Yeah the first time changed my plugs, it was kind of wierd two of them were kind of gummy and more dirty and the other two weren't. At the moment I dont have those and might have thrown them away changed from regular Bosch to Platinum 2+ and now NGK iridium, hoping it would solve a problem.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 2, 2006 - 8:20 PM

[Mike95ST]

mine's been doin somethin similiar i think, i pretty sure i need a new clutch, its a manual 95 ST, and when i even feather the peddle, the revs jump way up and i barely accelerate, its been getting alot worse to, cuz i jus was in a lil bit of stop and go, and i could barely get it from one light to even move, i had to let someone go around me, and it barely got into my garage.. its 123,000 on original clutch. even if im jus driving tho, and i hit the gas and have nothin to do with the clutch, it revs really high

This post has been edited by Mike95ST: Jul 2, 2006 - 10:36 PM

[LewFX]

uhh i thought he has an auto, no clutch needed

[Mike95ST]

he does, but i got a manual, and im not sure whats wrong, im pretty sure the clutch is just fried...ne help

This post has been edited by Mike95ST: Jul 3, 2006 - 12:57 AM

[axelrduvirage]

he does, but i got a manual, and im not sure whats wrong, im pretty sure the clutch is just fried...ne help

IMHO start a new thread. i can't give you any info 'cus i have an auto, sorry

[94st_santos]

I need to find some batteries for digi cam to post pics of sprk plugs but another problem I have been having is my car is shutting off and having trouble starting, I had to crank 3x to start this morning but after that it died twice haven't turned it on since, because I've been at work. Could the fuel pump be going out, Oh yeah whenever y'all put y'alls car in the on position before cranking can you hear the fuel pump come on?

[LewFX]

post a video of your engine bay as someone trys to start your car, anything visual will help, did u try the seafoam yet?

[94st_santos]

Here some pics of the spark plugs the first time I changed them.

post a video of your engine bay as someone trys to start your car, anything visual will help, did u try the seafoam yet?

No I haven't maybe I'll try to get some tomorrow morning, by the time I get back in to town, small town, from work the carquest is closed.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 3, 2006 - 6:26 PM

[burneeed]

sounds like a trans problem... Does it slip at all? almost sounds like its the torque converter.... but honestly your never going to find out until you bring it to someone if you cannot dignose the problem yourself...

[94st_santos]

sounds like a trans problem... Does it slip at all? almost sounds like its the torque converter.... but honestly your never going to find out until you bring it to someone if you cannot dignose the problem yourself...

No it's not slipping, actually shifts very well for as many miles as it has. And the torque converter where is it at if some one could post a pic I'll check that. I'm starting to get that the problem might be the fuel pump if someone could see if they here it turn on before the crank that would help it might be a relay.

[Bitter]

they look normal, other than being well worn.

how do the current plugs look?

[94st_santos]

they look normal, other than being well worn.

how do the current plugs look?

Yeah well worn but that was only after maybe 2-3 months.

[Bitter]

wow, did you drive 80k miles in those 3 months?!?

[94st_santos]

I don't think, I've had the car since September almost a year and changed the plugs 3x to see what happened, but I think I'm going to try higher octane gas now that I have the NGk plugs and probably change the wires and try to get a hold of some seafoam.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 3, 2006 - 10:27 PM

[southwest2118]

hey you may have a restricted exhaust. unbolt it at the cat where it dosent flow through and check it out.

[94st_santos]

hey you may have a restricted exhaust. unbolt it at the cat where it dosent flow through and check it out.

yeah I was just about to post that, that is what I thought it was I think my 1st cat is clogged and restricting flow which may have over heated my manifold and cracked it. I also got the code 71 EGR malfunction, which I think is recirculating to much exhaust gas from restrictive flow. I should be getting my headers with in the next week or so and I'll be replacing the EGR valve, I'll post what happens.

This post has been edited by 94st_santos: Jul 12, 2006 - 9:43 PM

[Culpable04]

I'm getting the same code 71 and I replaced the EGR valve ( didn't help ). abotu the engine noise and lose of torque, If you reset your computer you 'll feel your car different untill the check engine light comes back on, then you'll hear the noise back again and the loss of torque. that's what I have experienced so far.
( if I don't get a solution to this I'll be taking the car to the dealer so they can deal with it and take my money in the process )

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Jul 10, 2006 - 8:03 PM

[sh0x]

In case it's not related to your exhaust issue, I would check for vacuum or air leaks. Check the large hose from your air filter box to the intake. If there are any cracks at all, when the engine moves the cracks will open and it will suck in more air and lean out the mixture. Also check for vacuum leaks, esp. around the PCV valve and in any cracked rubber engine hoses. One way you can check for leaks is by using a length of 3/4" rubber tubing as a stethoscope. Failing that, I would check for intake gasket leaks. The trick here is to spray carb cleaner at the intake gasket and listen for a stumble.

[Bitter]

In case it's not related to your exhaust issue, I would check for vacuum or air leaks. Check the large hose from your air filter box to the intake. If there are any cracks at all, when the engine moves the cracks will open and it will suck in more air and lean out the mixture. Also check for vacuum leaks, esp. around the PCV valve and in any cracked rubber engine hoses. One way you can check for leaks is by using a length of 3/4" rubber tubing as a stethoscope. Failing that, I would check for intake gasket leaks. The trick here is to spray carb cleaner at the intake gasket and listen for a stumble.

ST engine (7afe) is speed density (map) based, you can run an open throttle body if you want to, all the air measuring goes on in the manifold. airflow is calculated by MAP reading, enging rpm, and engine load, i may have left a few factors out.

[Culpable04]

What happen is there is no leak on the hoses, I change all my hoses and installed a new EGR valve and the problem still there.

[94st_santos]

I got my header today, I'm gonna pick up the gaskets friday and hopefully put it on saturday.
Sorry for bad pic.

[LewFX]

what header is that

[Batman722]

what header is that

corolla header. He will need to get the pipe extended and have a second 02 flange welded on the b pipe too.

[Bitter]

I got my header today, I'm gonna pick up the gaskets friday and hopefully put it on saturday.
Sorry for bad pic.

what is yours branded and what did the box yours came in say? mine was "Edge Racing Sport", and came with all the gaskets except the one to the cat.

[94st_santos]

My header is for the corolla, and I got it from NOPI and it's made by HP Racing.

[southwest2118]

The best way to find a vacuum leak it to spray all the hoses coming off the manifold with brake cleaner.




so how did it turn up?

This post has been edited by southwest2118: Jul 16, 2006 - 11:37 AM

[94st_santos]

so how did it turn up?

Well you can definitely feel the difference in the header, from cracked manifold with a 12 yr. old cat. but I am still having problems with the car. I went to the auto parts store today and was going to buy the EGR valve but instead the sells man told me to clean the O2 sensors with gasoline and clean the EGR valve with brake parts cleaner, so I gonna see how that works.

[Bitter]

LOL cleaning the O2 sensors with gas is just so he can sell you new ones LOL

[LewFX]

gas can be used as a cleaner

[Bitter]

gas can be used as a cleaner

not for an O2 sensor, maybe carb/choke spray, but i'd even be iffy on that. if the sensor is so old and worn that its no longer reading proper just replace it. you can get an OEM one online for relatively cheap, no soldering and splicing, just plugs in. i got one from http://sparkplugs.com/ for about $50. yours are a little more, but not TOO bad.

Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-1053 234-1053 FRONT $77.48
Denso OE identical O2 sensor 234-2052 234-2052 REAR $40.58

[rev_limit]

hey dude did you fixedyour car fixed yett ...if not .... will for my car it pick up very slow i have a 5 speed same thing it barly move when you drive it and even if you floor it ... i found out that the disturbitor was sitting wrong you just might need to turn the disturtor to the the right spot ... buy you have to retared the distur. and reset it...

[Culpable04]

any update ?
I would like to know cause I have the same problem. I already change EGR valve like a month ago and nothing so I'll probably change my O2 sensors this weekend. if there is something I should know or could use, guys PLZ let me know

[94st_santos]

hey dude did you fixedyour car fixed yett ...if not .... will for my car it pick up very slow i have a 5 speed same thing it barly move when you drive it and even if you floor it ... i found out that the disturbitor was sitting wrong you just might need to turn the disturtor to the the right spot ... buy you have to retared the distur. and reset it...

Do you mean the timing was off or the actual distributor was on wrong, I was planning on checking the distributor after I changed the EGR sytem.

I orderd the EGR valve + selenoid and the intake gaskets so I can clean the inside of the intake, I'll let y'all know what happens.

[Culpable04]

did you replace your O2 sensors ?

[DomGT]

What is your MPG?

[Steevo]

How hard was it to get the two discolored plugs out?

I guess they look like they have had exhaust gas blowing by them discoloring them.


Have you changed the fuel filter? It is a bit of a pain, but does make a difference, my wife filled our car up at a station known for dirty gas and we had problems till I changed the filter, ran some Barrymans and reset the ECU.

The timing shouldn't change on the fly, there are two bolts securing the distributor.

[Bitter]

that coloration is NOT caused by exhaust gasses. its case by a small amount of current tracing over the porcelin and atracting oil particles to the paths where they get stuck. it'll clean right off with a little brake cleaner or carb/choke.

[Steevo]

that coloration is NOT caused by exhaust gasses. its case by a small amount of current tracing over the porcelin and atracting oil particles to the paths where they get stuck. it'll clean right off with a little brake cleaner or carb/choke.

Not that I am doubting, but the discoloration above the threads and around the hex area of the spark plug on two cylinders in due to electrical current?


Even though two are perfectly clean above the threads?


A simple exhaust leak around the plug gasket would cause this, and the fact that he is losing power under throttle, when compression is higer so leak off would be higher. Perhaps it is just oil loss from the tube seals burning on to the hottest part.

[Bitter]

yes, its current tracking. the other 2 may not have had any oil to track or it could be that 2 plugs had a larger gap/looser boot seal

its technical term is a corona stain

http://aftermarket.denso-europe.com/The-sp...0170000011.aspx
http://www.ngkntk.co.uk/technicaltips/coronastain.asp


This post has been edited by Bitter: Jul 26, 2006 - 11:58 AM

[94st_santos]

Thanks guys this is alot of good info.

did you replace your O2 sensors ?

No, I didn't I had just cleaned them from the exhaust build up when I installed my header but never cleaned them with gas or anything. Will probably change them later, won't hurt.

What is your MPG?

I really don't know.

How hard was it to get the two discolored plugs out?

If I remember right they came out like normal plugs would.

Still waiting on my parts but I'll probably take a look at the distributor tomorrow.

[DomGT]

Cmon bud at this point in time you should figure out your MPG. It will give you a good indication if you need new sensors.

Next time you get gas, reset the trip odometer. Next time you get gas, take your trip odo mileage, and divide that by the amount of gallons you put in the car, then, post up.

[laff09]

Oh yeah I said I had a stocked out ST but I also have straight through muffler and NGK iridium spark plugs, this is also a reason I'm wondering why I'm losing so much power. I Probably have like 50 hp now LOL.

Spark plugs gapped right? Never trust them to be gapped properly out of the box.

[94st_santos]

Spark plugs gapped right? Never trust them to be gapped properly out of the box.

I actually thought about that but my problem started before I got my plugs but I think thats drawing into it also since when I was trying to gap them the fine tip only ate into the gapper I had.

And I am going to have to replace my distributor, the copper wire from, the pick up coil untangled itself after I had cleaned the inside of the distributor out and turned the car back on. I'll have to give y'all a pic for a better visual.

[94st_santos]

Here are the pics. I don't think I did all this damage just with compressed air only if they are that sensitive either way it's being replaced, hopefully tomorrow. Maybe it will fix alot of my problems.