3sgte vs. Type R? Options

[brandonb87]

Heres a topic ive wondered and wanted some opinions about which is better, ive got some friends who run type r's but i dont know anyone with a 3sgte so im wondering what i can expect when i have mine put in

[CelicaST202]

boost on 3sgte

[KB-2]

what are teh specs for the 3sgte???
and whats so good about it??
im a newbie w/ the engines stuff

[kenjamatic]

i haven't been in either car before(or a celi with 3sgte) but if both stock...prob the type r might have the advantage...IMO...

This post has been edited by kenjamatic: Jul 10, 2006 - 10:49 PM

[burneeed]

Yupp Itr would beat a swapped celica. There pretty fast for a stock car thats fwd 4cyl... Never raced one but I was in one with just an exhaust and it pulled harder than my car.

[purplegt4]

you guys need to ride in one then.

3sgte ftw.

[creis]

um if you have a 3sgte swaped celica (say its a st185 with 200 hp) vrs a civic type r (if thats what you mean by "type r") its just a b16 vtech right? there only 160 hp its not gana win the celica. but I think I'm reading it wrong. explane "type r" for me.

This post has been edited by creis: Jul 10, 2006 - 11:11 PM

[purplegt4]

b18c5 '01
hp: 195 @ 8000 rpm
tq: 130 @ 7500 rpm

3sgte -
st185
hp 200 @ ?
tq 200 @ 3800 or 5000rpm?
someone help me out here

st205
hp: 251 @ 6000 rpm
tq: 225 @ 4000 rpm

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Jul 10, 2006 - 11:31 PM

[My2Celi]

3sgte ftw

[teamchancery]

i guess it depends on the 3sgte generation u get they come with 180 up to 260hp(from caldina)which is what i have now,so a 260 bhp stock 3sgte vs a stock itr 190hp 0r 220hp.Hope u putting in a lsd plus the celicas downfall is that they are heavy to an extent but jus remember the 3sgte was one of toyotas most dependable and fast race engines used in all kind of racing series so heritage is there.Lets jus say a type r wouldnt be a hard obstacle to overcome mod for mod

[purplegt4]

plus the celicas downfall is that they are heavy to an extent

the celica's lighter.
celica - Curb Weight 2400-2500lbs
itr - 2500-2600lbs

where u guys getting info to base your opinions?

[lagos]

you guys need to ride in one then.

3sgte ftw.

[hitcachi]

[burneeed]

ITR Will beat a swaped 6gc sorry. I hate to admit it... Yes I ride in one everyday.

[purplegt4]

ITR Will beat a swaped 6gc sorry. I hate to admit it... Yes I ride in one everyday.

what kind of itr's u racing?

[burneeed]

I have not yet to race one... I have road inside of one... but it definately pulled harder than my car.


The b16 civics are a joke there really slow.

[purplegt4]

you can't judge a car by the way if feels. some cars feel fast as sh!t but they're slowER. you'll be surprised.

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Jul 10, 2006 - 11:44 PM

[burneeed]

yes and it feels like it pulls harder than mine...... Have you been in a swapped celi before?

[purplegt4]

yup swapped 5th gen, orange one in woodbridge, va.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendID=28324250

my cousin has a black itr.

3sgte = more torque feeling.

This post has been edited by purplegt4: Jul 10, 2006 - 11:49 PM

[Akimbo]

Horrible place to ask that question.

The bias here is uber.

[burneeed]

well of course there is going to be more torque ! But with bolt ons cpmpared to a swapped celica itr will beat a swapped celica hands down.

I hate to admit it as I love the 3sgte. But the itr is a faster car hands down.

[purplegt4]

ok well bias change!

put that b18c5 in a ek hatch.

there's the honda power.

i guess i'm just gonna have to wait for a video.

[pure_dx]

are we talking stock for stock?

the type-R (b18c5) only came in the integras here in the United States and never came in the civics in north america

i say it would be a close match to see, if we're talking about a swapped 3sgte with a GT shell (no custom mounts) then the weight should be fairly the same, if we're talking about the latest gen 3sgte and the lastest gen b18c5 (type-r) then it would be a very close race indeed, like i said in another thread, these hondas have good top-end, and on the highway, the type r might keep pulling away......

vtec do0d!

This post has been edited by pure_dx: Jul 11, 2006 - 12:01 AM

[burneeed]

yupp the one I road in had great top end as you shift and it stays in vtech everytime. Its pretty good for a NA motor.

[purplegt4]

k-series would probably be an even better race. but hey i stand by my vote.

[CelicaST202]

how about 3sgte vs S2000 06 model

[chacha]

hahaha...i think we need to call out those people with the hondas/acuras as well as those with the GT4 engines on the track and have a one on one race....our 3SGTE vs thier Vtec and just witness the beauty of race for fun! We'll know from that...

[lagos]

ITR Will beat a swaped 6gc sorry. I hate to admit it... Yes I ride in one everyday.

no offence dood.... but your 3s swap is slower then normal because of that horrible top mount ic you still have on there. get a fmic and a boost controler and you would beat any NA 4cly car.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 11, 2006 - 12:33 AM

[j0e_p3t]

3sgte for life.

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

sounds to me like the b18c5 is like the honda version of a Beams 3sge.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

what engine is in the IT-R? if its a b16, then i wouldnt say it would beat the celi. I've raced from a 15 roll with a b16 bubble and passed it when we got at around 60-70mph. I've never tried my car against a b18 bubble but I cant imagine it being faster than the bolt-on-galor rsx-s I raced and beat awhile back.

bboy

[Insanity-74]

I raced loads of type r`s when my st205 was stock, and even with the drivtrain losses with AWD I still beat them without much problem (both Civic type r`s and Integra type r`s) with running only 2wd on a 3sgte you shouldnt have any problems staying in front.

how about 3sgte vs S2000 06 model

Even with mods and 300BHP I race my friends S2000 with exhaust and filter and its absolutely kneck and kneck they rev forever and are light weight......if you race one....prepare for the worst.

[daazndood]

wasnt the integra type R like mid 6 seconds for the 0-60?

last time i checked the gt-4 was faster then that. 6.1 i beleive. but would it be slower in a FWD or faster becuase of less powr bein divided.

[burneeed]

ITR Will beat a swaped 6gc sorry. I hate to admit it... Yes I ride in one everyday.

no offence dood.... but your 3s swap is slower then normal because of that horrible top mount ic you still have on there. get a fmic and a boost controler and you would beat any NA 4cly car.

None taken .... But my Trans makes it so I dont burn tire.... Just grip and take off.... Im sure you still spin off the line.

Yes the tmic is the worse design toyota has ever made. Doesnt matter car is going to be sold next monday.

and I have a boost controller btw.

[CLYCK]

itr= beams 3sge uhm not really more like k20 type s which is the rsx is more like the beams for honda
itr are b18 and ctr are b16 and well iam surprised ruel, and about that k series swapped honda bubble mmmmm not really close k series would win i mean k series puts you at low 13's mid to high 12's in a normal bubble so i dont see the celica winning that one. oh yeah the type r's produce abit more hp so its not exactly like racing b16 and gsr swaped cars here n the states.

[brandonb87]

Awesome thread on this topic guys, im only talking about gt-4 or any swapped celi with the 3sgte perferrably 2nd gen or higher vs. integra type r not a civic. i think we need a course race on these cars to solve this debate or a drag video anyone have any footage of this?

[creamed_corn]

I thought the motto of the 3S swappers over on celicatech was "fear no N/A 4 cylinder". They've talked about taking RSX-S's and S2K's over there before no problem on many occasions. An ITR should be breakfast.

[jdg371]

Im confused.. is this in a dig or a roll? If roll a swapped Celica would win vs a ITR because well have traction..

Theres a RHD ITR that was beaten by a 143whp MKI MR2 from a roll..

Also.. wouldnt it be a a biased comparison since Boosted vs N/A. So the comparison would be CTR vs GTE

Drag- very close
Track- ITR

No one can deny that the ITR is a sick track car.. well thats what its built for anyways

[fastcelica20]

a supercharged mk1 mr2 has a very good chance against the itr. its a 6 sec car. plus its like 2,000lbs.

im not biased but look at torque: itr's 130 vs 3sgte's 200. ugh. i've always believe that torque is what is most important. just me.

i dont know but seems like some people dont know how to shift.

so many reasons to why people lose.

does my 91 mr2 turbo count?

[nate95]

OMG, a 3sgte will own an itr anyday, with a 3sgte you can TURN UP THE BOOST!!! its that simple.

[Kadett]

I have beaten an ITR with my old 3S-GE engine. So I don't think I would even bother to do it again with the swap. The only thing thats really better on the ITR is the handling. Stockwise I think on of the best handling cars there is.

The advantage of the ITR is that is can pull much longer in every gear because they go up to 8000k RPM.

[purplegt4]

I have beaten an ITR with my old 3S-GE engine. So I don't think I would even bother to do it again with the swap. The only thing thats really better on the ITR is the handling. Stockwise I think on of the best handling cars there is.

The advantage of the ITR is that is can pull much longer in every gear because they go up to 8000k RPM.

agreed.

http://www.6gc.net/photo/member/1026/69
http://www.6gc.net/photo/member/1026/73

maikl should definitely know.

[x_itchy_b_x]

a gt4 is slower than swapped celica right. due to the weight of AWD.
i think a swapped celica not a gt4 can beat an ITR because i have beaten
jdm h22 swapped civics and preludes before. im also at 15psi though.
are we talking stock for stock? cause then it would be a damn close race.

[Kadett]

a gt4 is slower than swapped celica right. due to the weight of AWD.
i think a swapped celica not a gt4 can beat an ITR because i have beaten
jdm h22 swapped civics and preludes before. im also at 15psi though.
are we talking stock for stock? cause then it would be a damn close race.

Unfortunaly wrong.

A GT4 will go from 0-100km/h in under 6 seconds (Toyota was a bit generous in the 6.1 seconds)
A ITR will go from 0-100km/h in 6.7 seconds

But since the GT4 is 4wd and the ITR is FWD it will be decided on how good the surface is where they are driving/racing on. Trackwise I think a ITR will beat the GT4 with ease.

With my swapped ST205 engine I get about 6.5 seconds for 0-100 km/h but thats with a heavy driver (myself, already going to the gym) and a Full ICE setup in the back. Still not as heavy as a GT4 but the GT4 just has more grip. When rolling I'm faster then a GT4.

And more importantly its all about the driver. I have beaten a ITR (with old engine) from a death stop for 2 reasons,
1 Better tyres
2 Better reaction time+shifting

[presure2]

this thread is 100% pointless.