Finished 99 GT 3S-GTE Swap from Dr. Tweak UPDATE W/PICS AND VID Page 3, Titled "The Thing That Should Not Be" Options

[Fastbird]

"The Thing That Should Not Be"

This was a swap that should have never happened, and suddenly in April, a decision was made and the rest is history. Anyway,

Swap is DONE! Sadly, we didn't get to dyno tune it today due to a slight glitch, but it's running at pretty much 100%. Here's what was done:

JDM Gen II 3S-GTE w/ECU
eBay Downpipe
Custom 3" Exhaust system from ST Performance (all stainless, pieced together mandrel bends, Magnaflow muffler and resonator)
ATS Racing TB Inlet Pipe
ATS Racing GM Knock Sensor kit
GReddy Electronic Boost Controller
Perfect Power SMT-6 Piggyback
HKS BOV
Whalbro 255 LPH High Pressure pump (whines like a mofo!! )
Autometer Nexus Gauges in a Lotek Pod (unfortunately, Autometer forgot to include a power cable in the controller box, so they're not working yet).

I left the exhaust setup choice up to Dr. Tweak, and he did us right. My wife and I both popped a huge grin when we first heard the car. Sounds completely AWESOME.

We turned up the boost to 15 PSI, car seems to run really well. Down low is nothing to write home about, but at about 3000 RPM the boost comes on HARD and she pulls like a mofo on the top end.

Given that there wasn't a dyno tune, how much power and torque do you think I'm putting to the wheels??

Dr. Tweak, a review.

Dr. Tweak has been nothing but outstanding during this whole endeavour. His customer service is certainly top notch and he's done an outstanding job with the swap. He was having issues with getting the SMT-6 wired in last night and ended up staying at the shop until 3:30 in the morning and only got two hours sleep before coming back in to get everything polished up. If that's not a testament to his dedication I don't know what it. EVERYTHING works on the car, from the A/C back. Nothing but perfection. Everything was installed where and how I asked, cleanly done. He even installed a couple of "feeder wires" through the firewall in the event we decide to install anything in the future that needs wiring through the firewall.

Money wise, his estimation was almost spot on. Due to a couple of unforseen events I had to pay some out of pocket, but nothing terrible and certainly an understandable deal. I consider what we got to be well worth the money, and for anyone even contemplating paying someone the swap, I would highly recommend getting ahold of Dr. Tweak. He will go out of his way to make sure that you, the end consumer, is happy. A TRUE professional.

Feedback on dyno numbers please people. I'd love to have an idea of where we're at.

Lastly, videos to come. Took a couple today and will download and edit them into one vid when we get home tomorrow (parked in the middle of North Carolina for tonight).

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 23, 2006 - 6:35 PM

[Batman722]

pics and vids are a must, congrats

[Chanh55]

Congrats. =)

[lagos]

congrads.. post some pics

[brianforster]

id say your probably in the 220-230hp range

[coldbluesteel]

Where are you at in NC?

[Fastbird]

Where are you at in NC?

We're in Dunn, NC, about 20 miles north of all the Raleigh Interchanges.

Vids will be coming soon. I'm going to try to get a couple on the highway tomorrow while she's driving it.

[jgreening]

Congrats. FMIC? Driving impressions?

[Fastbird]

Congrats. FMIC? Driving impressions?

FMIC, and the driving impressions is that it's a 100% BLAST to drive. It's just so smooth, so effortlessly accelerates from a stop, and when the boost hits it's insta-grin. Not to mention that cruising on the highway at 80 I can play the turbo (think jet engine sound) at will which just plain amuses me right now. This is our first turbo car and I'm getting a kick out of it.

Just going from a stop isn't anything major but with just moderate throttle inputs at about 3000 RPM the power just RUSHES in and it's like "Woah, where'd that come from?"

One bad thing I noticed is that it torque steers like a mofo now. That REALLY caught me off guard the first time I really got on it getting on to the highway.

[jgreening]

Congrats. FMIC? Driving impressions?

FMIC, and the driving impressions is that it's a 100% BLAST to drive. It's just so smooth, so effortlessly accelerates from a stop, and when the boost hits it's insta-grin. Not to mention that cruising on the highway at 80 I can play the turbo (think jet engine sound) at will which just plain amuses me right now. This is our first turbo car and I'm getting a kick out of it.

Just going from a stop isn't anything major but with just moderate throttle inputs at about 3000 RPM the power just RUSHES in and it's like "Woah, where'd that come from?"

One bad thing I noticed is that it torque steers like a mofo now. That REALLY caught me off guard the first time I really got on it getting on to the highway.

Sounds great. As for the torque steer, I highly recommend LSD. I am probably 30-40 hp above you and I have almost no torque steer issues.

Enjoy her!

[Dr_Tweak]

jgreening, what mods do you have and what power are you making at the wheels? Once we get this thing on the dyno I think it's going to make 250whp or so.

-Doc

[jgreening]

jgreening, what mods do you have and what power are you making at the wheels? Once we get this thing on the dyno I think it's going to make 250whp or so.

-Doc

If you can make 250whp on a ct26 at reasonable boost levels, that will be fairly impressive. When I had mods similar to Fastbird (except for 2.5" exhaust with primary cat in place), I dynoed 214whp.

My current mods are listed in my profile - the biggest difference being my turbo.

[scarcustoms]

I am the owner of Southern Car Customs Inc in Savannah GA we are the new home of Dr. Tweak. I am truly glad to hear that you are so so happy with the Doctors work and we thank you for all your patience and dediction to us.

If anyone else would like to experience this same level of customer service and install knowledege please feel free to call us directly at (912) 961-9222 ask for George or visit us online at our new site www.getswapped.com

Thanks agian for your business and we hope you enjoy your new swap.

This post has been edited by scarcustoms: Jul 20, 2006 - 8:35 AM

[dustin15brown]

how does it compare to the vette?

[Kadett]

Congrats!!!

About the torque steer. Dont have any unless I go to the limit of the car (traction wise) and I can go a long way.

[lagos]

jgreening, what mods do you have and what power are you making at the wheels? Once we get this thing on the dyno I think it's going to make 250whp or so.

-Doc

are you going to be using a dyno jet? if so, can you post the runfiles from it, once you dyno it?

[Defgeph]

Congrats Fastbird ! Enjoy it man....

[Dr_Tweak]

jgreening, what mods do you have and what power are you making at the wheels? Once we get this thing on the dyno I think it's going to make 250whp or so.

-Doc

are you going to be using a dyno jet? if so, can you post the runfiles from it, once you dyno it?

Even better, a Dyno Dynamics with load-holding capability

-Doc

[jgreening]

jgreening, what mods do you have and what power are you making at the wheels? Once we get this thing on the dyno I think it's going to make 250whp or so.

-Doc

are you going to be using a dyno jet? if so, can you post the runfiles from it, once you dyno it?

Even better, a Dyno Dynamics with load-holding capability

-Doc

better for tuning, but the numbers wont me anything when they are posted.

[Dr_Tweak]

better for tuning, but the numbers wont me anything when they are posted.

Why do you say that?

[jgreening]

Here's some threads for your reading enjoyment:

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

There are tons more if you search. Essentially, with user programmable controls, a mustang or dyno dynamics dyno can be set up to read as much as 100% variation. They are good for holding load to tune cells though.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jul 20, 2006 - 6:09 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Note this post made by GenIIIMrDuece in the second thread.

I have a Dynodynamics dyno. I used to have a Dynojet 248c. I will never use anything else after switching to dynodynamics. The DOS based software sucks... but the dyno itself blows dynojet outa the water. yes it reads lower, but you can change the corection factor to 1.13 instead of 1.00 to make dynojet numbers if you really wanted.

The dyno this is going to run on is set to the 1.13 correction factor, that's how they run it on all the cars that they tune.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 20, 2006 - 6:24 PM

[jgreening]

Since this is a cool thread about Fastbird's swap, I am not going to debate whether numbers from these different dyno types can be compared.

[Defgeph]

I like the response to that post

LMAO. Thanks for proving Aaron's point. What's to stop you from changing it to say, 1.50? Or 2.0?

I'm not arguing about whether the Dyno Dynamics is a great dyno for tuning. I'm sure it is. It's pretty clear that it is NOT a great dyno for obtaining accurate horsepower numbers with no possibility that those numbers have been tampered with.

Thats from Ken Blake.


A dyno number should be an uncorrected number. For tuning purposes Dyno Dynamics is the right choice. To get a honest number, you need a Dynojet.

[presure2]

dyno dynamics dynos are GREAT for tuning, the load hold capabilitys are awesome.
for consistant, comparable #'s, the dynojet is the well known standard.
good luck with your project fastbird, i hope tuning goes well for you.
with a full 3" exhaust setup, intake and 15psi, tuned, on a JDM ecu, im gonna guess around 230-245whp.

[easternpiro1]

i think im going to cry....im happy for you fastbird...i wanna thank doc tweak myself and i dont even have the swap! the reason why im writing in green is because im JEALOUS!!!!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Jul 20, 2006 - 8:25 PM

[snapshotgt]

We DEMAND pics and vids!!!!

~snap

[lagos]

dyno dynamics dynos are GREAT for tuning, the load hold capabilitys are awesome.
for consistant, comparable #'s, the dynojet is the well known standard.
good luck with your project fastbird, i hope tuning goes well for you.
with a full 3" exhaust setup, intake and 15psi, tuned, on a JDM ecu, im gonna guess around 230-245whp.

i agree.

dyno jet is pretty much the gold standard for just WOT dyno numbers that you can compare.
every dyno ive seen from a dyno dynamics or a mustang dyno always shows a much higher number then a dynojet .

there really isint a lot of power to be gaind from tuning a JDM ecu. it runs very agressving timing and fuel. the real bottle neck is with the ct26... my guess is 230-240ish hp/TQ at 15psi . somewhere in that ball park, give or take 5hp

fastbird, if you ever take it to a dynojet make sure to post up the run file. that way we can compare it to the runs that me, manny and jeff did.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 20, 2006 - 10:25 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Art, do you have those runs all together in one place? I'd love to see them. Maybe we should start a "Celica Dyno Sheet Thread" or something.

We could even call it "Teh Official 6GC Dyno Sheet Thread"! LOL

-Doc

[Defgeph]

I would like to see a dyno sheet thread as well.


Congrats again Fastbird !!!!!!!!!!

[Fastbird]

Ok guys, here's my take.

Dynojet's are the industry standard for numbers, plain and simple. However, they're a no-load style dyno and use a standard 3000 lb drum (on the 248C at least). The inability to add or release tension while making a run to simulate real world road conditions (weight, frontal area for the drag coefficient of the specific vehicle) means that the numbers are relatively inaccurate.

Dyno's like the Mustang and Dyno Dynamics are actually MORE accurate if everything is calibrated correctly, which isn't hard to do. Yes they can be fudged, but the people you find doing that are the ones who are dyno racing for huge numbers as a marketing tool or bragging rights. Spend enough time around dyno shops and tuning facilities and you'll start to see how the numbers really stack up. On average, you can add about 3-5% HP and 10% TQ when transferring Mustang/Dyno Dynamics numbers to a Dynojet. I have seen this conversion repeated with fairly good accuracy quite a few times.

*Edit 2* I'm going to throw a couple more points in here concerning dyno's. You're going to have variations from dyno to dyno of the same sort, so comparing dynojet to dynojet results isn't going to be an accurate thing either. I know someone mentioned seeing nothing but higher numbers coming off of Mustang and Dyno Dynamics when compared to a dynojet, but you have to take in to account conditions, calibrations, SAE or STD power on the dynojet readout, ect. This is why dyno racing is crappy in it's own right, because there are too many variables to accurately compare numbers. Dyno's are nothing more than a great tuning tool. That's some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Admittedly, it's fun to compare numbers and see good results on the dyno, but the adage that track times don't lie holds true. anyway.......

The guys at ST Performance had theirs set up correctly for conditions and the Celica, I watched them do it. Time to let the cat out of the bag, we've already dyno tuned the car.

First pull, untuned, stock boost, made 210 HP (never looked at the tq).

Turned up the boost to 15 PSI, first pull there with no tuning netted 240 HP. Doc and I were both like "woah, that's awesome."

After tuning, final numbers were 248.9 HP @ 5600 RPM and 255 Lb/Ft of torque at something like 4500 RPM (dyno sheet is in the car). Those are real world numbers and the car backs them up on the road like you wouldn't believe (just ask my wife who was driving our 345 RWHP 93 TRans Am and did a 5th gear pull against the Celi in 5th also -- the Trans Am was out of it's powerband and she shut down early, but not before getting walked on by a car length or so). This was with IAT's in the 160 range (needs a more dense intercooler core) in 97* temps with about 35% humidity. Colder weather output would have been better. My dyno sheet I had printed showed 247.3 because it was the last pull of the day we made and the car was heat soaking pretty bad.

I may take it to a dynojet once we get cooler weather, I may not. *Edit* Actually, I think I will do it eventually as I want to make some changes to the tune and re-verify a couple of things, so I'll definitely get the run file so we can overlay everything for fun. I like that idea guys. */Edit* I happen to prefer the numbers that Dyno Dynamics or Mustang dyno's give as they're more accurate given correct calibration. On a dynojet on the same day this car would most likely have been well into the 250's on HP and 260-275 TQ. See why I say it torque steers like a mofo?!?!? Dr. Tweak and I were both stunned with the results to say the least. I'm half tempted to show up at the Philly meet on Saturday just to get some impressions of the swapped guys there (I.E. driving impressions) but probably won't make it just due to my schedule that day.

I'll be posting some dyno vids in this thread (a really cool one of the chart being made real time on a pull) as well as charts of the following: HP and TQ, HP and AFR, HP and Boost, for referencing purposes.

So, for now, we didn't break that 250 mark like we had hoped, but 248.9 is pretty dang close, and the 255 TQ is pretty dang impressive. I happen to think that the OUTSTANDING custom 3" exhaust by ST Performance had a huge impact on how things ended up. Thanks to them for the outstanding work (and ordering a set of S-Tech springs for us too, can't wait for those) and huge thanks to Dr. Tweak for all the work and effort, as it's paid off well. My wife (who primarily will drive the car) loves is, and I think you all already know that I'm getting a kick out of it.

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 21, 2006 - 12:23 AM

[lagos]

Art, do you have those runs all together in one place? I'd love to see them. Maybe we should start a "Celica Dyno Sheet Thread" or something.

We could even call it "Teh Official 6GC Dyno Sheet Thread"! LOL

-Doc

yeah i have them, but talk to all the other guys to see if they want their files posted up or not. mine is nothing to brag about becasue i had major issues on the dyno . ill have to go again soon so that i can get a good run in.

I happen to prefer the numbers that Dyno Dynamics or Mustang dyno's give as they're more accurate given correct calibration.

well, just go to a dynojet if you can and get the run files. all dynos are going to give you a different number, but if you go to a dynojet then we can all compare our numbers and a/f ratios side by side and learn more about our cars.

[Fastbird]

well, just go to a dynojet if you can and get the run files. all dynos are going to give you a different number, but if you go to a dynojet then we can all compare our numbers and a/f ratios side by side and learn more about our cars.

I plan to. I actually need to hit the dyno sometime in the not too distant future as I need to work on the tune for our running Trans Am and need a baseline on the Vette, so it would probably be the perfect time to hit the Celi again too.

Lagos, seeing that you're in the Philly area, are you familiar with Xotic Motorsports in Cochranville PA?? It's about 45 minutes west of Philly and I've done some work there before on the dyno. Good rates and good guys working there. If you want sometime and can make it, swing out there when I'm going to get the Celica on the rollers and we can make a same day comparison between the cars for the highest probability of accuracy.

Dustin, you asked how it compared to the Vette. It's not nearly as brutal, and doesn't have the "on rails" sports car feel that the vette does, but then again it doesn't rattle and ahve as cheap feeling of an interior either. I will say that the vette would happily dispatch the Celica at any point on the road though. The LS1 is just a screamer from a roll.

[lagos]

i remember the name of that place, but ive never been there. if its really only 45min away, then i can definetly meet up with you there and dyno. i go to phillydynoworks.com . its an awd dyno jet...and the guys there are really cool . one of them owns an mr2!

is xotic a dyno jet?

[presure2]

i dont wanna clutter up fastbirds thread with dyno sheets.
imma start a dyno registry here.
the deal is ALLLL you guys have to post your sheets, and keep them updated!

[Fastbird]

i remember the name of that place, but ive never been there. if its really only 45min away, then i can definetly meet up with you there and dyno. i go to phillydynoworks.com . its an awd dyno jet...and the guys there are really cool . one of them owns an mr2!

is xotic a dyno jet?

Yeah, Xotic is running a dynojet 248C. What's the prices at the place you recommended?? At Xotic you can do 3 pulls w/wide band for about $60 or 75 and dyno time for tuning was $100 an hour I believe (been a while since I've been there).

[lagos]

its like 4 pulls for 60ish on a dyno jet at phlly dynoworks

if u can, call xotic and ask them if they have the ability to log boost on their dyno jet. ive been trying to find one that can.

let me know when u want to go. i did a mapquest to xotic and its about 1hr drive and 50miles away ...so thats not too bad. ive been wanting to dyno my car again, because the last time i went i had issues with the spark plugs, so i dont feel like i ever got a good run in.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 21, 2006 - 9:34 AM

[Fastbird]

its like 4 pulls for 60ish on a dyno jet at phlly dynoworks

if u can, call xotic and ask them if they have the ability to log boost on their dyno jet. ive been trying to find one that can.

let me know when u want to go. i did a mapquest to xotic and its about 1hr drive and 50miles away ...so thats not too bad. ive been wanting to dyno my car again, because the last time i went i had issues with the spark plugs, so i dont feel like i ever got a good run in.

Lagos, I'm not sure that any dynojet will have the ability to log boost. I have yet to see it.

I'll be sure to let you know when I'm ready to head there. Gotta clean up a couple of little things first so give me a couple of weeks to find the money and time at this point.

Here's a thought about the dyno's. We all know that they Dynojet is pretty much the industry standard for power numbers. But think real world. The dynojet uses 3000 lb rollers unloaded. Food for thought, anyone check the weights on their cars?? Probably will be around 2600-2700 lbs sans driver. So if anything, on the surface at least, the dynojet is going to give you less than real world numbers for your Celica.

[presure2]

Lagos, I'm not sure that any dynojet will have the ability to log boost. I have yet to see it.

I'll be sure to let you know when I'm ready to head there. Gotta clean up a couple of little things first so give me a couple of weeks to find the money and time at this point.

Here's a thought about the dyno's. We all know that they Dynojet is pretty much the industry standard for power numbers. But think real world. The dynojet uses 3000 lb rollers unloaded. Food for thought, anyone check the weights on their cars?? Probably will be around 2600-2700 lbs sans driver. So if anything, on the surface at least, the dynojet is going to give you less than real world numbers for your Celica.
[/quote]
actually ALL dynojets have the ABLILITY, its a matter of wether or not the dyno owner chooses to purchace the neccicary equipment to do so.
my local dyno does.
your thought on the dynojet is flawed.
i dynoed my car, pre turbo, and the #s fall exactly in line with what toyota rated the engine to @ the flywheel.

[Fastbird]

your thought on the dynojet is flawed.
i dynoed my car, pre turbo, and the #s fall exactly in line with what toyota rated the engine to @ the flywheel.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it flawed. Take into account the Firebirds/Camaro's I'm used to dealing with. These are portly cars, around 3600 LBS or so. They'll put out one number on a dynojet, and then when taken to a mustang or Dyno Dynamics dyno which is loaded with the correct vehicle weight, will put out lesser numbers and substantially less torque. It's been proven over and over. Perhaps it's more of a player in cars that weigh MORE than the drums, I can't say for sure.

I'm not trying to discredit dynojet's at all. I like them (Heck, I like all dyno's, they're fun to play on), but I just feel that they're not as accurate as other options out there. Rumor has it that Dynojet is well aware of this and is in the process of putting together a dyno like the Dyno DYnamics or Mustang dyno's because they're seeing a noticable swing in the market towards those two (and moreso towards the Mustand dyno). Competition is a good thing, and the best part is that the numbers are going to become more and more accurate.

Here's an example. Typical JDM ECU and 3S-GTE swaps typically dyno at around 190-210 to the wheels right?? Ours with a custom 3" exhaust and no tweaking at all made 210 the first pull. That's right in line there if you ask me.

[jgreening]

Rumor has it that Dynojet is well aware of this and is in the process of putting together a dyno like the Dyno DYnamics or Mustang dyno's because they're seeing a noticable swing in the market towards those two (and moreso towards the Mustand dyno).

They already have one that can be switched between normal and load holding. I think the model number is 224LC or 224LX or something like that.

[Fastbird]

Rumor has it that Dynojet is well aware of this and is in the process of putting together a dyno like the Dyno DYnamics or Mustang dyno's because they're seeing a noticable swing in the market towards those two (and moreso towards the Mustand dyno).

They already have one that can be switched between normal and load holding. I think the model number is 224LC or 224LX or something like that.

Load holding is one thing, but what about setting a constant load to simulate actual road conditions (things like vehicle weight, frontal surface area, drag coefficient, ect)?? I'm not aware of a dynojet with the resistance loading (I'll call it) to make it like the car is pulling itself and not a standard drum weight, which is why the Mustang and Dyno Dynamics put out lower but more accurate numbers (when properly calibrated obviously).

[lagos]

alright... lets cut through the BS...

not all dynos are going to give you 100% the same numbers. one will be more, one will be less. who has the right one? no one knows!

none of that matters. what matters is that if u want to compare 2 cars side by side, then you should test them under the same conditions. same time of day, same weather, same boost level and same type of dyno. that way you can see whats going on in each one under the same conditions.

[lagos]

i have an awesome idea. the philly meet will be getting pushed back to somwhere around 3 weeks from now. i can book time at the dyno and we can have a meet/ dyno day!

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 21, 2006 - 6:08 PM

[Fastbird]

i have an awesome idea. the philly meet will be getting pushed back to somwhere around 3 weeks from now. i can book time at the dyno and we can have a meet/ dyno day!

Let me check my schedule....Yup, I'm in. That's an AWESOME idea. Will give me enough time to sort out the power steering and get the gauges working.

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 21, 2006 - 8:23 PM

[Punch]

another one from the DR good job keep it up hope to see alot more....
can we get some pics???

[Fastbird]

First, the exhaust:













Couple of Motor Shots:









Some car shots:









Dyno Charts!!


HP vs. TQ Actually, looks like this run it made almost 260 TQ.......hmmmm.........


HP vs. Boost


HP vs. Air Fuel Ratio


Boost vs. Air Fuel Ratio

And a vid. Sorry if it sucks, but it's my first ever attempt at putting together a compliation and I had limited video to work with. Once the wheels go on this week, I'll get more.



This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 23, 2006 - 6:29 PM

[Fastbird]

Interior Happenings:


GReddy Boost Controller tucked away in glove box. I just need to make a hard mount for it.


SMT6 Connection Cable, Nexus Controller, and iPod cable, all in the console box, all fully functional from there.


Nexus Gauges

[tim86]

nice pics and vid, looks like great results... dr tweak always does awesome work

[presure2]

looks great man!
enjoy the new found power!

[94_st_hatchback]

nice..you should give your a car a lil drop..

[Fastbird]

nice..you should give your a car a lil drop..

S-Techs are ordered and will be going on as soon as they arrive. And these are going on next week, probably Tuesday:

[jgreening]

Here are my observations and comments:

1. Exterior looks GREAT.

2. Looks like knock response at 4700 RPMs. Is timing controlled by the SMT-6?

3. A/F at 12.5 under boost is too high for my comfort level

4. Interesting that they went over the axel on the exhaust.

5. exhaust welds are not that impressive, IMO. Probably doesn't matter if it doesn't crack.

6. HKS air filter generally gets bad reviews - may want to think about replacing it.

7. The combination of knock response, the GM knock sensor, high a/f ratios, and adjusting a/f with a piggy back (which can effect timing) would worry me.

8. Why are there two couplers on the intercooler piping near the throttle body?

I wish you all the best Fastbird. Don't get boost happy!

Jay

[Fastbird]

1. Thanks!!! It's going to get better this week, and with the drop should be really nicely done.

2. Timing is not being controlled by the SMT6 yet. Have to wire a single resistor in, and Dr. Tweak couldn't source one at 2 AM.

3. A/F was starting to fluctuate badly due to heat soaking of the motor towards the end of the day. It had been steady at about 11.0 most of the day, you can see it in the video on the pull at the end.

4. Wanted the ground clearance.

5. I thought they were pretty good actually.

6. I've heard this, but it was a freebie with the motor. I'm actually looking at doing a solid 3" tube to the AFM with a better conical filter (hey, more HP to be found!!)

7. Not so sure it's knock response. It's present at that exact point EVERY time, and tended to coincide with a slight AFR dip.

8. The ATS Racing TB Inlet I guess.

Here's my concern. We know that the JDM ECU's had pretty agressive timing curves. The issue with the SMT6 is that you can't see what's already programmed, you can only make changes. If someone could post a stock JDM ST185 spark table for reference, I'd be a lot more comfortable making timing changes than in the blind. The fuel I'm comfortable changing because I can reference the AFR (or soon the pyro from in car) and see the changes. But the timing just makes me nervous without knowing where it's starting. Hopefully the A/F fluctuation from heat soak will be able to be taken care of via the SMT6 as I noticed a chart in there to actually on the fly make percentage changes based on engine temps.

[Dr_Tweak]

That dip was actually a slight misfire, we started to get that later in the day on a few of the runs, when it started getting real hot. The ambient temperature on that last run was 97*. Sean, you should add that to the dyno sheet thread as well

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jul 23, 2006 - 7:40 PM

[brianforster]

wow, good numbers

well.. the HP

This post has been edited by brianforster: Jul 23, 2006 - 7:51 PM

[Fastbird]

That dip was actually a slight misfire, we started to get that later in the day on a few of the runs, when it started getting real hot. The ambient temperature on that last run was 97*. Sean, you should add that to the dyno sheet thread as well

-Doc

Done!

[Batman722]

Congrats fastbird. You've got some pretty good numbers there, must be fun to get that kind of responce out 4 cylinders

the A/F looks a little funky but other than that things look great

[Fastbird]

Congrats fastbird. You've got some pretty good numbers there, must be fun to get that kind of responce out 4 cylinders

the A/F looks a little funky but other than that things look great

It's a f****ng blast. Nuff said".

The A/F is funky for two reasons: Heat soak starting to throw things off, and the fact that the SMT6 lacks a "fine tune" capability and it's corrections ability is more big step based. With a full EMS that could easily be cleaned up to a nice flat curve.

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 23, 2006 - 9:07 PM

[lagos]

car looks nice. i like how bone stock it looks right now. but clean up that engine a bit. paint the heatshield. it will do wonders for the engine bay. i bet those stock wheels are really easy to spin. haha

your a/f ratio is a little too lean and you did get detonation in that run. probably because its tuned too lean . there really isint much fuel to work with on a jdm ecu. it normally runs at a nice 11.5:1 ratio at 15psi and thats perfect. whoever "tuned" it, was probably just trying to lean it out and much as possible to give you some type of gain from having an sm6 in there. problem is, that when u lean the fuel out, the ecu advances timing, and this is a BIG no no. you said the a/f ratio has been good all day... do you have a wide band in the car?

oh btw,... your new redline is 7,300ish, not the 6,3000 the dyno driver was hitting.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 23, 2006 - 9:17 PM

[lagos]

is that the greddy type-s you have in there?

can you post a pic of where the knobs are set? ive been playing around with mine today, and want to see where you have yours at for comparison.

[Fastbird]

car looks nice. i like how bone stock it looks right now. but clean up that engine a bit. paint the heatshield. it will do wonders for the engine bay. i bet those stock wheels are really easy to spin. haha

your a/f ratio is a little too lean and you did get detonation in that run. probably because its tuned too lean . there really isint much fuel to work with on a jdm ecu. it normally runs at a nice 11.5:1 ratio at 15psi and thats perfect. whoever "tuned" it, was probably just trying to lean it out and much as possible to give you some type of gain from having an sm6 in there. problem is, that when u lean the fuel out, the ecu advances timing, and this is a BIG no no. you said the a/f ratio has been good all day... do you have a wide band in the car?

oh btw,... your new redline is 7,300ish, not the 6,3000 the dyno driver was hitting.

Actually, that took quite a bit of leaning out (not to mention that most of all the rest of the runs were at 11.0 and it was creeping up with heat soak because we were back to back thrashing it). Even at 15 PSI when the car pulled 240 untuned, the A/F was dipping below 10:1 and we had done nothing but turn the boost up. It was HORRENDOUS on the factory boost. I've actually added a bit of fuel back in up top and taken some out of the part throttle ranges because I was seeing spark knock on the highway at the top of the powerband and the part throttle driving was just pig rich (typical black puffs out back).

There really isn't a point to take the motor to 7300 RPM because the power and torque were both dropping off at that 6300 where the driver was shutting it down. No reason to continue to spin a motor harder when there's nothing to be gained by it. Once we toss a CT27 on there and see how high it pulls........well.......

Engine bay is being worked. I'm scheming. I'm ordering all black couplers tomorrow (still have a couple rubber ones on there) and am planning on having the heat shield and possibly all intercooler piping ceramic coated, and want to do the valve cover in black, and then polish anything that's left over. Simple black and polish looks, no colors, just a nice understated engine bay. I'd actually like to get my hands on a manifold to polish while I'm at it.

And it will blow those stock tires away. Tuesday I'm mounting the new tires to the HPR5's (215/35's on an 18x8) so we'll see how those fare. Then it's some E.T. Street Radials for a pair of the stockers for some stickiness at the track. Broken parts here I come.

is that the greddy type-s you have in there?

can you post a pic of where the knobs are set? ive been playing around with mine today, and want to see where you have yours at for comparison.

Yeah, I'll get you a pic tomorrow and post it up for ya.

[lagos]

part throttle driving was just pig rich (typical black puffs out back).

thats totally normal. your vented bov is to blame for that. you can try to tighten the nut on it a little bit. it should help out a bit.

exactly how much fuel was taken out overall?

do you know if your smt6 has the afm to map option, or was that only in the smt7?

i thought you said you never saw a dyno that can log boost? lol . its awesome to see that the greddy type-s holds the boost fairly even. i know jeff has some issues with his profec that uses the same selenoid as us, so i was worried about mine. good to know it works well. what was your peak boost on those runs?

[lagos]

oh and make some vids of those gauges once u get them hooked up . i really want to see them in action.

[Fastbird]

i thought you said you never saw a dyno that can log boost? lol .

Never seen a Dynojet that can log boost.

Max boost seen on my runs was 16 PSI.

Here's a shot of where Dr. Tweak set it:


And an update on those gauges. Right now as installed in the pod there's Boost/Vac, Oil Pressure, and Fuel Pressure. Silly me didn't research the fact that Toyota didn't put a schraeder valve on the fuel rails, so there's no easy way to install the Fuel Pressure gauge. So...............I'm pulling that out as soon as the new gauge comes in:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.a...15&autoview=sku

Figure with the datalogging capability of the Nexus gauges coupled with the SMT6 and a good TPS hookup, I'll have no trouble doing some no bs real world tuning, both part throttle and wide open. Coming soon to a swap near you.

*Edit* Scratch that. Just found out why no one seems to have it in stock. Not being released until Mid September even though they were supposed to be out in the spring time. Dang it.

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 24, 2006 - 3:46 PM

[presure2]

good stuff man!
be carefull with how much fuel you pull with the SMT, if it doesnt control fuel seperate from timing..although im sure youve been over that before.
good luck and keep us updated on the tuning as you go!

[jgreening]

Sean:

What happens in a race between the vette and the celica from 30-60mph?

Jay

[Fastbird]

Sean:

What happens in a race between the vette and the celica from 30-60mph?

Jay

Not sure yet. Vette has a flat tire and I'm waiting on new wheels and tires to come in. Figure that the vette is making ~50 more HP than the celica, has more of a cruise gearing, but the LS1 is also a top end motor. I think that the Vette would initially get down a little to the Celica, but would catch up and overtake in a heartbeat. Figure it's good for low 13's high 12's @106-108 as it sits, and the top end is where it really shines.

Stinking autometer. I'm so irritated about the wide band being pushed back.

[lagos]

if the vett is only making about 50hp more then the celica, then the celica stands a good chance. it sucks for 1/4times but does really well from a roll with its power to weight ratio. youll be surprised at some of the cars youll be able to beat in it

[Insanity-74]

Looks fantastic, but I would lag your downpipe....will help stop heat transfer to your intake air as the intercooler pipe looks like its touching the exhaust.

[brianforster]

400$ for a wideband gauge? does it come with a sender?

[Fastbird]

Looks fantastic, but I would lag your downpipe....will help stop heat transfer to your intake air as the intercooler pipe looks like its touching the exhaust.

Explain "lag." FWIW, the intercooler pipe that's touching the downpipe is pre-intercooler. I'm already scheming on a way to seperate the two.

400$ for a wideband gauge? does it come with a sender?

Yeah, that's gauge, sender, brain, and will hook right into the nexus system via piggyback for visual control. That's pretty much the standard price for any decent wide band with logging capability (in this case, logging via the nexus control module along with any other guage connected).

[brianforster]

im confused it hooks into what nexus control module? is that who makes the smt6?

[Defgeph]

Nexus gauges I cant wait to see them!

[brianforster]

holy **** i just read up on the nexus gauges, thats amazing, me want me want

i guess future plans for me will involve nexus boost and nexus wideband gauges that controller unit dohickey..

god you have like 1k in gauges on that car, lol.

[zipstrips]

i LOVE seeing how your exhaust is run! i need to move mine over now. i ran my over axle when the stock runs and it interfers with the control arm movement a little........ i originally thought i should use that opening in too.

[Fastbird]

im confused it hooks into what nexus control module? is that who makes the smt6?

god you have like 1k in gauges on that car, lol.

I actually picked up everything on eBay for about $780....but subtract $200 because the fuel pressure gauge won't be going in (will go into my Trans Am drag car instead ) and add in $400 for the Wide Band when it's released, so actually.....jeebus. That's almost $1200 in gauges. These things BETTER be worth it.

i LOVE seeing how your exhaust is run! i need to move mine over now. i ran my over axle when the stock runs and it interfers with the control arm movement a little........ i originally thought i should use that opening in too.

I'm not getting any interference with the A-Arm movement, but I do get some clunking every now and then when doing some "spirited" driving or going over your typical NJ bumpy roads. I'm going to replace the old saggy 130K mile rubber hangers and probably take my old rubber couplers and put them around the pipes as "padding" where it's contacting. I've already checked and the exhaust doesn't get very warm at all back there.

[lagos]

dang, you got 130K on your 99? i only got like 66k on my 98. maybe i need to do more driving haha. did you 5sfe still run when it was taken out?

[Fastbird]

dang, you got 130K on your 99? i only got like 66k on my 98. maybe i need to do more driving haha. did you 5sfe still run when it was taken out?

It ran, but Dr. Tweak was amazed that it did. FWIW, I bought the car with 114K miles on it in July of 05 from the second owner who had only had it for a month (old guy, too hard to get in/out of). By the time we took it to Doc, it had a valve tick and was burning a little oil on startup (thinking valve seal). Ran like a champ the entire time though.

[brianforster]

how much did you pay for it?

[Insanity-74]

Explain "lag."

Put in some heat shielding.... that exhaust wrap stuff would be your best and cheapest bet...put it on both the exhaust and the intercooler pipework great stuff at stopping heat transfer.

[Fastbird]

how much did you pay for it?

Pay for what, the car?? I paid $7500 for the car "buy it now" on eBay because I had seen a same condition higher mileage one go for 1K more just days before, and I was sick of the endless goose chase for a GOOD car as every one I was looking at was misrepresented in one way or another.

[celi_gt_racer]

ok... so i gotta ask - what's the total cost for motor/tune-up/all the electronics/ and the Dr. Tweak install and tune .... i must know how much i need to take out a loan for

[Fastbird]

We went well above and beyond what a "budget" swap would have cost. That said, I paid $7000 to Dr. Tweak for the swap and all associated parts, $1065 for the exhaust, and another $260 for dyno time for tuning.

I figure that if you were to pay Dr. Tweak to do a bare bones swap, meaning no aftermarket parts, mating the exhaust to your factory exhaust, no tweaking or anything, you could get away for under $5K.

[zipstrips]

dang, you got 130K on your 99? i only got like 66k on my 98. maybe i need to do more driving haha. did you 5sfe still run when it was taken out?

76k on my 1995!!!

This post has been edited by zipstrips: Jul 26, 2006 - 7:24 PM

[Fastbird]

Put in some heat shielding.... that exhaust wrap stuff would be your best and cheapest bet...put it on both the exhaust and the intercooler pipework great stuff at stopping heat transfer.

NEVER do the exhaust wrap. I've seen first hand what that stuff can do in the wrong conditions. I'm looking at a re-route of the piping, but given that the pipe are touching on the pre-intercooler side, I'm not overly concerned about it. I'd like to get the rubber intake issue taken care of first (3" custom tubing to AFM and a better filter).

[jgreening]

NEVER do the exhaust wrap. I've seen first hand what that stuff can do in the wrong conditions.

More detail please.

[Fastbird]

NEVER do the exhaust wrap. I've seen first hand what that stuff can do in the wrong conditions.

More detail please.

Know a guy who had a car burn to the ground because of exhaust wrap. Got a surprise oil leak, which ignited after soaking the wrap down good. Poof in mere minutes.

This post has been edited by Fastbird: Jul 26, 2006 - 9:41 PM

[celica47]

lagos better watch out then

[Fastbird]

Well, as long as you don't have everything happen at once, you'll probably be ok. I personally won't put the stuff on my car though having seen what "can" happen.

[lagos]

you guys are silly.

almost anything in your engine bay can catch fire if soaked in hot oil. hell even your throttle cable can start a fire, not to mention your fuel lines, or those tubular exhaust manifolds that glow red when you get on the throttle.

[Dr_Tweak]

Put in some heat shielding.... that exhaust wrap stuff would be your best and cheapest bet...put it on both the exhaust and the intercooler pipework great stuff at stopping heat transfer.

NEVER do the exhaust wrap. I've seen first hand what that stuff can do in the wrong conditions. I'm looking at a re-route of the piping, but given that the pipe are touching on the pre-intercooler side, I'm not overly concerned about it. I'd like to get the rubber intake issue taken care of first (3" custom tubing to AFM and a better filter).

Yeah and not only that, header wrap WILL eventually damage any exhaust parts which get real hot. I never allows the heat out which will bring the temperature of a header, for example, to near-molten state. This causes serious problems down the road.

That pipe touching is the reason that I'd like to someday do a setup with a top flow intercooler and both pipes running off towards the driver's side. At any rate, I would be far more concerned with upgrading that intercooler than relocating that pipe.

-Doc

[Fastbird]

That pipe touching is the reason that I'd like to someday do a setup with a top flow intercooler and both pipes running off towards the driver's side. At any rate, I would be far more concerned with upgrading that intercooler than relocating that pipe.

-Doc

No top mounts for me. Actually, a piping upgrade will probably happen at the same time as a new intercooler. Whoever it was that said it was on to something with the piping route being turbo -> driver side of intercooler -> out passenger side from intercooler up to the TB. There's just enough room on the passenger side of the motor to pull everything off without clearance issues it looks like.

Doc, what specifically is the size of that intercooler so I can find one that's the same and won't present installation issues?

[Dr_Tweak]

That pipe touching is the reason that I'd like to someday do a setup with a top flow intercooler and both pipes running off towards the driver's side. At any rate, I would be far more concerned with upgrading that intercooler than relocating that pipe.

-Doc

No top mounts for me. Actually, a piping upgrade will probably happen at the same time as a new intercooler. Whoever it was that said it was on to something with the piping route being turbo -> driver side of intercooler -> out passenger side from intercooler up to the TB. There's just enough room on the passenger side of the motor to pull everything off without clearance issues it looks like.

Doc, what specifically is the size of that intercooler so I can find one that's the same and won't present installation issues?

That's top-FLOW intercooler, verses side-flow like most intercoolers. Top-flow have the endtanks on the top and bottom and both inlet and outlet on the same side (normally), and are usually very effective and efficient. However, they are expensive.

I'm not sure, I'd have to look it up. By that time you could take a measuring tape to it and be done with it though!

-Doc

[Fastbird]

Insert sheepish grin here. Told ya I was new to this turbo/intercooler stuff.

thanks for clearing that up.

[tomazws]

The car looks very awesome... why you live so far Doctor Tweak?!?!?!

[99GT]

Everytime I research I get side track from another one haha...

[Negative]

99GT - Thanks for bumping these two old threads. Both were created during a time that I wasn't paying much attention to this site and I missed them. I learned a few things whch is always valued.
I really don't see why anyone would need to protest unless they were just bored. Besides the original creators of this thread may see it and feel compelled to update us with newer info.

[rjbibeau]

quick question...what size intercooler is that..i'm trying to size which size i'm gonna be getting and your looks like it fits really nice in there. what is the size from end tank to end tank?

[Dr_Tweak]

Should be about 28" long, 5-6" tall, and about 3" deep.

-Doc