Convertible top motors, How to fix. with pictures! Options

[MaskedMan]

Ok so i've been meaning to post this for awhile now, but haven't had the chance till now. Well i've heard a lot of people having problems with thier convertible top opening and closing. And usually the motor is still good, except there is a part inside that is broken. What happened with mine was that one of the sides stopped working and my convertible top needed assistance opening and closing. But the motor was still good, cause it still made noise when i pressed the button. The problem was a pin inside. So if you are having this problem, and your motor still sounds good, then try this, and it may solve your problem...

First you'll need to remove your convertible top motor from which ever side isn't working properly. So first remove the bottom part of the seats, they just pop right out, they are held in by two clips in the front. Then you will need to remove the rear plastic panel on the side your trying to get to. Don't worry bout the seat belts, you can leave those attached, cause you just need to get the panel out of the way. After those are out of your way, You should be able to see the convertible top motors. They are held in by 4 10mm bolts, but you will also need to remove the rear speakers and cut a zip tie before you can unplug the wiring clip and remove the motor. After you remove the motor, you will need to take off 4 hex bolts connecting the motor to a black box that has gears in it. After you take that apart, it should look like this...



Now we can take a look at the problem. There is supposed to be a pin that keeps the gear moving when the motor moves. When this pin breaks, the motor will just keep spinning, but it has nothing left to turn the gear. This pin seems to break off since it happened to both of my motors. Im guessing its like a fail safe device or something, if there's too much stress put on the motor is just breaks the pin, so you dont burn out the motor? Thats my guess. Or maybe the pins just suck. Well anyways, it needed to be replaced. Here's a picture of the Motor with the broken pin removed...



Here's a picture of what was left of the pin...



Here's where your gunna need to improvise cuase i couldn't find a part number for the pin. I ended up cutting drill bits in half and using the solid end as the pin, whatever get's it done right? haha Im guessing you could use any pin as long as it fits in the hole pretty snug. I hope this helps

This post has been edited by MaskedMan: Aug 4, 2006 - 11:56 PM

[CelicaBuddy]

ahhh awesome!

maybe i can find out whats makin my top act like crap! Thanks!

Oh and just in case if I did entirely kill the motors... how much are they? all I hear is is that theyre expensive.

This post has been edited by CelicaBuddy: Aug 6, 2006 - 3:12 PM

[jgreening]

Great post. What keeps the pin from falling out?

You could just get a 98 or 99 convertible because I understand that the motors are upgraded for those years and I have never read on anyone with those years having a problem.

[bobsurunk]

Masked Man...You ARE the man...By a weird coincidence I was working
on my daughter's 99 GT Convertible this weekend. Same problem, I
could hear the motors turning but no top movement. Took the motors out,
made sure they spun the gears, BUT I couldn't see the pins in the gear
for all the grease on them. Pretty much gave up and started pricing motors.
Started surfing the net and there was your post.
Took the motors out again and sure enough, both motors had sheared
pins! Found a allen key that fit pretty snug so I sawed it up and made
two new pins.
All is well and I saved about $250 per side in new motors.
Thanks Dude!!!

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

can you get a better picture of the pin??? its not that good.

[psilly]

can you get a better picture of the pin??? its not that good.

Looks like a roll pin from the pic.

I think my 97 has the same prob. First the left went and yesterday the right. Damn happy to find this post!

Now if I could only find a replacement hold down latch for less than $200

This post has been edited by psilly: Aug 21, 2006 - 8:57 AM

[madmods]

please sticky this!

[MaskedMan]

i cant get anymore pictures as of right now, cuase i am back in LA where my 6GC isnt . But im glad i was able to everyone out

[psilly]

ok, they're not roll pins, they just look that way in the pic. It's a solid pin that's been scored along its length to make it stay in the hole.

I pushed mine out and replaced with 3/32" rolled pins (Home Depot). They press in nice with a bench vice. Bad news is, one broke the second day. Replaced that in 40 minutes -- will see how it does.

Some tips:

• I removed the metal spacer thing (3 X 10mm bolts) above the speakers to access the motors & left the speakers in.
• Don't try to drill out the pin left in the shaft -- it's hardened steel. Put the shaft in a vice and press or tap it out. I would put the shaft in the vice, not the housing, to avoid bending anything.
• You can press te new pin in with the gear off, then slide the gear and springwasher back on after.
• Seal the motor body to the gear housing with some silicone to keep the grease from oozing out over time.
• Using an L-shaped allen wrench for the 4 hex screws on the motor takes forever.
• When replacing the panel, get it into place, align/insert the end of the inside quarter window weather strip with the rubber attached to the door, then put in the plastic keepers along the seatback edge (if you want to), then move on to the screws.

This post has been edited by psilly: Aug 21, 2006 - 8:57 AM

[MaskedMan]

those were some nice tips psilly.

yeah the pins have to be pretty strong to move the convertible top. maybe it would also put less strain on the pins and motor if you oiled whereever the convertible top bends to make it easier for it to open and close. just a thought.

Sorry bout the bad pic of the pin, it was REALLY small, so it was hard to get a good picture of. It just looks bigger in the pictures cuase it's blown up like a bagillion times. But anyways, goodluck with your top

[JonMarkos]

can you get a better picture of the pin??? its not that good.

Looks like a rolled pin from the pic.

I think my 97 has the same prob. First the left went and yesterday the right. Damn happy to find this post!

Now if I could only find a replacement hold down latch for less than $200

You can get a replacement hold down latch from Champion Toyota world for $126, Latch thingy

[psilly]

can you get a better picture of the pin??? its not that good.

Looks like a roll pin from the pic.

I think my 97 has the same prob. First the left went and yesterday the right. Damn happy to find this post!

Now if I could only find a replacement hold down latch for less than $200

You can get a replacement hold down latch from Champion Toyota world for $126, Latch thingy

Cool! Right now the part that broke (aluminum pivot arm that the J hook screws into) is at my neighbor's machine shop. He thinks he can mill a new one. If that doesn't work out, I'll buy one from that site.

This post has been edited by psilly: Aug 21, 2006 - 8:58 AM

[nightryder]

awesome, f'ing awesome! Just pulled both motors apart and rigged them up and for the first time in months i have a working soft top! just in time for the end of summer! lol. You the man!

ps. the "J" hook for the latch if very easy to machine out, I made one in my basement with a 3 inch bolt, a blow torch, a vice, a grinder and a hammer, very very easy. pm me if you want more info

[njccmd2002]

awesome topic ever, used drill bits made of titanium. This is the post that made me join the group.

[MaskedMan]

awesome topic ever, used drill bits made of titanium. This is the post that made me join the group.

Welcome to the group . Nice to hear my topic is still helping people out

[aslearvert]

please sticky this!

x2

[ecaddiction]

I cannot get the pin out for the life of me. I tried taping it out, but with no success. Did anybody else have this problem?

[JonMarkos]

At first I did, but then I bought an actual tap and didn't have any problems...before then I was trying to use nails to tap it out,

[maxpower_hd]

I took a small punch and ground down the end so it would fit in the hole. Then I was able to tap it right out. I also used the drill bits. I searched and searched at the local hardware store and could not find an actual pin that was the right size.

I only had to fix one side for the time being.

Nice Tech Tip.

[toyo6gc]

after reading this i think im goin to go pull my car apart 2morrow and see if thats my problem also, sounds like it could be.

[njccmd2002]

I made my pins out of titanium drill bits, you can cut them with a dremel tool. to get the pins that are stuck use pin pushers. good luck,

[CelicaBuddy]

please sticky this!

x2

x3!

I JUST got my top fixed today after a year of not working...

and yup the pins were exactly what the problem was...

If it wasn't for you posting this I probably would have ended up wasting money on two new motors.

THANK YOU!!!

[MaskedMan]

I'll try to revise this or maybe make a better version with better pictures now that i once again have my Celica and then maybe it will get stickied (sp?) haha. Anyways congrats to all those with working convertible tops again!

[shaunrichard]

Hello. I just recently found this post on a Google search and it has given me reason to hope. I have pulled both motors and found the sheared-off ends of the pins. I now have two questions:

1) How difficult is it to get the pins out - is there any special tool or technique?

and B) I read that some of the posters have used drill bits to replace the pins. What size works best?

I realize that this is an old post; hopefully someone is still paying attention to it and can help steer me in the right direction. Thanks.

[MaskedMan]

Always paying attention to my fellow vert owners . The pins are easy to remove, just take something small like a pick or screw driver and tap the remaining piece out. Use that piece that you knock out to find the correct size drill bit. When I have time, I will post better pictures up.



Wow I realized that my last post said the same thing about me updating it when I have time. I really gotta find time .



This post has been edited by MaskedMan: Mar 13, 2008 - 9:19 PM

[shaunrichard]

Yeah, I find myself saying that a lot. After my post, I realized there was a second page, and right there at the top of the page was the suggestion to use a pin pusher (or punch). I managed to find one at Home Depot, and it just so happens they are sized and the one that got the pins out is a 3/32" so that is the size drill bit I used. I got the motors back together, but I ran out of time (there it is again) last night, so I'll be reinstalling the motors today. Wish me luck.

Oh, and by the way, you should have seen the look on the HD tool guy's face when I told him I wanted to break the bits on purpose. He said he has never heard of anyone trying to break a bit before.

Thanks again for your post.

[shaunrichard]

I just re-installed my motors and they work like a charm. I thought I was just going to have to live with a half-working top, but thanks to your post, as well as follow-up information from the others, I have a fully-working convertible top. Now I am really going to have to hide the keys from my wife...

Thanks for the info.

[MaskedMan]

Glad to hear I could be of help. Thank you for posting the drill bit size as well. Enjoy your full functioning convertible top .

[luisitol]

this info is awesome. Gonna fix my top this weekend after reading this. I was about to purchase two motors as well. Hopefully it works for me too, will update when I fix mine

[D-Man]

I recently did one of theese for a friend. Luckily the quarter glass motors are the exact freakin same (mostly )

I cut allan wrenches to fit into place My drill bits are too precious to me, but i got a sh!t load of extra allens

[MaskedMan]

2 years later and I still haven't updated this thread like I said I would . Oh well, looks like most of you guys have been able to figure it out . Good work.

[njccmd2002]

2 years later and I still haven't updated this thread like I said I would . Oh well, looks like most of you guys have been able to figure it out . Good work.

lets not wait another two years

[luisitol]

I took the motors out and the pins were the problem. Changed them out for some pins I got at autozone. Worked the first two times I put the top up and down but the third time I think I accidently held the the button for a half second too long when opening the top and the pins broke :-(

I am ordering some heavy duty, Stainless Steel 3/32nd roll pins tonight and installing those next week. Hopefully that'll work better

[redhotpepper]

I'm new here and I could kiss your feet. I just bought a '99 convertible about 3 weeks ago and the top quit working on me this week. I also did a google search and came up with this GREAT thread.

It pays to suck up to the craft guys at work because I told them what the problem was and they sent me home with 3 different types of pins to try. I got everything torn apart but could not get what was left of the pin out. I had to wait for my husband to get home from work and he was able to get it out for me. Unfortunately, the 3/32" size was just a tiny bit too small and wouldn't stay in. We ended up cutting an allen wrench and using that. I put everything back together and it works great again!!!

Now, I need to figure out how to fix the door lock. I bought the car knowing there were a few issues with it but nothing huge and the price I paid reflected that. I've always wanted a convertible so I'm having a great time this summer with it. My kids are loving it too. I bought them scarves and sunglasses since it gets pretty windy in the back seat. It does kind of cut down the cool factor though when I have to put their booster seats in!

Annie (yes, a chick and, yes I fixed it myself)

[dgbldr]

Tapping out the pins is not a problem for me, but how do you guys get the retaining washer off the end of the shaft without breaking it?

[kbprice]

Ok so I got everything apart and one side had the snapped pin. No problem, punched it out and put in a new pin. Reassembled everything and the damn motors still don't turn. I'm now thinking the relay has gone bad because I can hear it clicking but the motors aren't turning. I hot wired the motors and they both turn but just not with the relay in place. Anybody have a spare relay?

[njccmd2002]

Ok so I got everything apart and one side had the snapped pin. No problem, punched it out and put in a new pin. Reassembled everything and the damn motors still don't turn. I'm now thinking the relay has gone bad because I can hear it clicking but the motors aren't turning. I hot wired the motors and they both turn but just not with the relay in place. Anybody have a spare relay?

6gcelicas may have one, pm him

[kbprice]

Upon further investigation I think the inertia switch that activates when the car is moving is stuck. Now I just have to figure out where it is. Anybody have any idea before I start tearing the car apart again and tracing wires?

[kbprice]

Last and final update. Ok for all you Celica convertible owners out there that can't figure out why your top won't go up or down even after you pull out and check the motors, check the relay, and inertia switch. OK go into the trunk and pull the little access door off the back of the seat. Inside there is a F**K'N switched marked "MANUAL", flip it up. Now try your top.
At least one good thing came out of this. I fixed the one motor that had a sheared pin in it. Oh, and I found out that there is a freakin switch in the trunk that inactivates the top motors and you can apparently switch it while loading groceries or something into the trunk without realizing it. Thats it. Thanks for watching...

[redhotpepper]

Last and final update. Ok for all you Celica convertible owners out there that can't figure out why your top won't go up or down even after you pull out and check the motors, check the relay, and inertia switch. OK go into the trunk and pull the little access door off the back of the seat. Inside there is a F**K'N switched marked "MANUAL", flip it up. Now try your top.
At least one good thing came out of this. I fixed the one motor that had a sheared pin in it. Oh, and I found out that there is a freakin switch in the trunk that inactivates the top motors and you can apparently switch it while loading groceries or something into the trunk without realizing it. Thats it. Thanks for watching...

Aww man, I hate it when stupid stuff stumps you! Glad you figured it out.

Annie

[redhotpepper]

My second pin sheared last fall and, since the weather is getting nice, I fixed it yesterday. It went very smoothly and I even got the broken pin out by myself. The only thing my hubby did was cut the new pin for me. I'm not really allowed to have sharp objects because I have a tendency to cut myself!

The next project is to clean my EGR. I'm hoping I can find a tutorial as great as this one.

Annie

[Beano]

Hi I'm busy working on the motor and pin problem (after having the cast alloy lifter arm Tig welded after it broke due to uneven lifting stress when one motor failed) - The pin doesn't go right through the motor shaft - a hole right through the shaft would seriosly weaken it. There are two short pins, one in from either side, and they only enter the shaft by 2mm. I am told that they are only 'keepers' and the major torque is taken (supposedly) by the pinion being a VERY tight fit on the shaft. I'm trying roll pins because I'm short of time, but I fear they may not last long, but knowing the problem and the ease with which the motors can be removed, I'll be prepared for it next time!
Beano (UK)

[match220]

ok, they're not roll pins, they just look that way in the pic. It's a solid pin that's been scored along its length to make it stay in the hole.

Are you sure about that? I replaced mine a few years ago, when I pushed them out it looked exactly like a roll pin. It wasn't a solid pin that was scored, it was a regular roll pin. Unless someone changed it before I got the car and put a roll pin in.

[luisitol]

Yuo when I pulled my motors apart they had roll pins in them. I first replaced them with roll pins and the first time I held the button a seond too long they snapped.

So then I fnally replaced them eith solid pins and haven't had any issues!

[MaskedMan]

Hi I'm busy working on the motor and pin problem (after having the cast alloy lifter arm Tig welded after it broke due to uneven lifting stress when one motor failed) - The pin doesn't go right through the motor shaft - a hole right through the shaft would seriosly weaken it. There are two short pins, one in from either side, and they only enter the shaft by 2mm. I am told that they are only 'keepers' and the major torque is taken (supposedly) by the pinion being a VERY tight fit on the shaft. I'm trying roll pins because I'm short of time, but I fear they may not last long, but knowing the problem and the ease with which the motors can be removed, I'll be prepared for it next time!
Beano (UK)

From my experience, the pin goes right through the shaft. You can see straight through it in one of the pictures I posted on the first page.

[CelicaRacer97]

Geez why am I just NOW seeing this post???? I was about to pay to have my motors fixed. Im glad Ive been too lazy to bother with it. LAZINESS HAS FINALLY PAID OFF!!!!!! now i gotta get off my lazy A$$ and fix this darn thing.....

[MaskedMan]

Geez why am I just NOW seeing this post???? I was about to pay to have my motors fixed. Im glad Ive been too lazy to bother with it. LAZINESS HAS FINALLY PAID OFF!!!!!! now i gotta get off my lazy A$ and fix this darn thing.....

Oh wth!? You're still here!? I didn't even know you still had your Celica haha. Good to see you're still around .

[xrav22]

I had large objects in the trunk and slammed on my brakes. The next time I tried convertible top it would't work.
Turned out objects bumped manual-auto switch in trunk.

[Beano]

Hi - I too have this prob - except that in my case the big alloy lift beam snapped clean in two when the soft top lifted 'skewed'. I had to dismantle the lift mechanism and take it to my local Tig Welder (wonderful man).
Back to the motor - I have tried and tried and cannot remove the 'broken bit of pin' from the shaft. It appears that the shaft is drilled in part way from each side, and therefore accepts a short pin from each side. the shaft is only a quarter inch diameter, so a hole all the way through would weaken it - right? ARE there shafts like this? Or do ALL shafts have a hole right through? I have supported the shaft and given it some hefty whacks with a hardened drift, which I'm sure would knock any piece of broken pin out - after all, it is less than 1/8" long and can't have THAT much of a grip! I tried inserting roll pins from either side - and the repair worked - ONCE.

Next I intend grinding a flat down the side of the shaft and a groove in the pinion and forcing a tiny piece of hex key or drill bit down the slot with a little Loctite.
I'll let you know how I get on - eventually - Meanwhile - its manual!
Roger

[match220]

Hi - I too have this prob - except that in my case the big alloy lift beam snapped clean in two when the soft top lifted 'skewed'. I had to dismantle the lift mechanism and take it to my local Tig Welder (wonderful man).
Back to the motor - I have tried and tried and cannot remove the 'broken bit of pin' from the shaft. It appears that the shaft is drilled in part way from each side, and therefore accepts a short pin from each side. the shaft is only a quarter inch diameter, so a hole all the way through would weaken it - right? ARE there shafts like this? Or do ALL shafts have a hole right through? I have supported the shaft and given it some hefty whacks with a hardened drift, which I'm sure would knock any piece of broken pin out - after all, it is less than 1/8" long and can't have THAT much of a grip! I tried inserting roll pins from either side - and the repair worked - ONCE.

Next I intend grinding a flat down the side of the shaft and a groove in the pinion and forcing a tiny piece of hex key or drill bit down the slot with a little Loctite.
I'll let you know how I get on - eventually - Meanwhile - its manual!
Roger

The hole goes straight through the whole shaft, they are usually hard to get out. You'll have to put it on a flat surface without the hole covered on the bottom and either press it out or hammer it out. I've done it each way, hammering is easier. I had a set of knockout pins to put on it. The replacement one should be just as hard to get in as this one is to get out.

[sh0x]

I didn't think mine could be the pin. I took the entire motor and gearbox out as one unit and the output gear on the box still ran under a little manual tension. I took the motor off the box, and sure enough, the pin was snapped. When I put it back together, I figured out what to listen for. Even if the "broken" motor is still strong enough to assist the stop, if you hear the motor continue to run after the top hits the stop, you have a broken pin.

I'm lucky I didn't break something else on the top! I grabbed the manual handle to assist the top going up all summer. No sign of damage to the rails. Whew!

I'm also convinced it's a rolled pin. My local hardware store called it a "tension pin," if you're having trouble finding one.

[m2736185]

I guess noone has a write up on how to refurb these things? My left motor has some trouble coming up and down somtimes then it has this high pitched screal when it doesnt wanna make it, but it moves so I dont think its the pin. Anyone has any luck opening these things?

[njccmd2002]

you can get them on ebay sometimes, refurbishing them is a PITA

[CelicaRacer97]

Geez why am I just NOW seeing this post???? I was about to pay to have my motors fixed. Im glad Ive been too lazy to bother with it. LAZINESS HAS FINALLY PAID OFF!!!!!! now i gotta get off my lazy A$ and fix this darn thing.....

Oh wth!? You're still here!? I didn't even know you still had your Celica haha. Good to see you're still around .

Wow i still havent fixed my damn motors after all this time.....seems like too much work, im gonna have to just pay s omeone to do it for me....and yes im still here

[njccmd2002]

its really not a big deal to do, takes maybe about 20 mins.

the only thing is just to get the motors out...

[MaskedMan]

Yeah, it's really easy to do, and like njccmd2002 said, the hardest part is getting the motors out.

Do you still live in Lakewood, CA like your profile says? I'm in SoCal, so if you need help let me know.

I really gotta get around to updating the pics on the first post .
I'll try to do that this week if it doesn't rain again.

[match220]

Yeah, it's really easy to do, and like njccmd2002 said, the hardest part is getting the motors out.

Do you still live in Lakewood, CA like your profile says? I'm in SoCal, so if you need help let me know.

I really gotta get around to updating the pics on the first post .
I'll try to do that this week if it doesn't rain again.

it's been a long time since I pulled mine out, but I remember it being easy to pull the motors out using my 8mm craftsman ratchetwrench. I thought getting the roll pins out of the motors was the most time consuming. Overall it didn't take very long though. And it's well worth spending the $10 or so on the one wrench just to pull the motors out easily.

[MaskedMan]

If the motors are in plain sight, then they are pretty easy to remove. It's just the whole process of removing everything else to get to the motors that was time consuming for me. Getting the old pins out of the motors is my favorite part, because I get to hit something with a hammer .

[match220]

Getting the old pins out of the motors is my favorite part, because I get to hit something with a hammer .

I second that

MaskedMan,
Are you actually in Korea or just from there? I used to live there, I still have friends that live just outside of Suwon. I don't remember seeing any Toyotas, except one Supra in Seoul. How did you get a Celica over there?

[MaskedMan]

I actually live in California, but it would be awesome to live in Korea. How long did you live there? I would really like to move, but if I can't take my Celica with me, then no deal .

[match220]

I actually live in California, but it would be awesome to live in Korea. How long did you live there? I would really like to move, but if I can't take my Celica with me, then no deal .

I lived there a little over a year. I loved it, I lived in Seoul though and it was sooooo polluted. I worked outside of Seoul so I always took the bus there, I forget what the area was called that I worked in, but it was a 30 minute bus ride out of the city. I did a lot of traveling around while I was there, some hikes and exploring, there was a hike I really liked off of subway stop 711, that's all i remember about it. Hwaseong fortress was nice. Seeing places like that really makes me want to go back. That was almost 10 years ago though, so my memory fails me with some details.

[808celica]

Wow Jay you still alive??? I kinda want a convertable now.......this might be useful in the future

[match220]

Wow Jay you still alive??? I kinda want a convertable now.......this might be useful in the future

hahaha, yeah, I'm still alive, still in hawaii, still working on the celica (when I get $$$). Riding around on the motorcycle for now, sold my other car. I'm working at the shop for about another week then I'm quitting and focusing solely on school. I'll just make extra money doing side jobs on cars. Right now I'm going to school while working almost full time, and it's tough. Did you ever get another celica? Or a 3s for yours? Your car just needed a crank position sensor right? Convertibles celicas are hard to come by here, the people that have them either shipped them over from cali or bought it from someone that did, the convertible's manufacturing started in Japan and finished in Long Beach and they were only sold in the mainland, they weren't shipped here due to cost.

[ACCELICA]

This was the post that hooked me forever on 6gc.net also! Invaluable help and advice. Mine worked on and off because I kept using super cheap drill bits and the top was mis-adjusted to cause more than normal resistance so they kept breaking. Now my top is in perfect adjustment and I made some legit pins by cutting up a hardened steel 3/32 inch punch into 2 pins. Being able to put the top up and down at a stoplight is so BadA.

Sadly though, I just got everything in working order to sell the car. It's been such a fun season of my life but it just doesn't fit the double stroller and car seats like I want it to so it's time for a new adventure. Definitely need to post up some pics of the finished product as I get ready to say goodbye...

[njccmd2002]

yup same post that brought me here.

[JuniorJoe]

so, my 99 spins the motors, but the roof just sits there. pins broken.

how long are the pins? i know everyone says 3/32" diameter, but what about how long?

sorry to bump an old thread, but i believe it's pretty relevant.

[match220]

so, my 99 spins the motors, but the roof just sits there. pins broken.

how long are the pins? i know everyone says 3/32" diameter, but what about how long?

sorry to bump an old thread, but i believe it's pretty relevant.

going off memory, I think they are 3/4 inch long. But don't take that to the bank, that is just approximate. One of mine broke the other day and I've been delaying changing it. Someone said in the other thread that they put 3/32 drill bits in instead of the roll pin that was in it. I have greased up all of my joints and the pins still snap. I don't know if it is due to cheap metal pins that I'm buying or if it's something else. If I do them soon I'll post up the picture and length of the pin.

[njccmd2002]

I did the titanium pins 4 years ago

[JuniorJoe]

3/32" diameter by 1/2" length

i pulled mine out today. the driver's side just had a broken pin.

the passenger's side:



yup. sheared the 4 allen screws right off





attempts at retrieving the broken screws were... "unsuccessful"

i'm going to see if i can find some stronger screws tomorrow. they look to be 4-40 x 3/8", but i'm not 100% sure on the pitch.

[JuniorJoe]

as i suspected, hardware is as follows:

pin: 3/32" diameter x 1/2" length
allen screws: 4-40 pitch x 3/8" length

all 8 allen screws on the motor unit (motor + gearbox) are the same size. since i don't want that to happen again, i ordered a completely new set of allen screws (along with new pins) to replace where the motor bolts on.

[snyderbd]

I just went through this with my convertible motors but noted that the motors were made by Globe Motors here in my town of Dayton, OH. I called them to see if the motors were still made (they are not). Globe motors does overhaul the motors though and also offers an upgrade to the original motor which gets rid of the pin (uses a D shaft instead of a pin) and pretty much eliminates the problem listed below. The old motors are part number 409A519-3. The new motor that fixes the pin problem are part number 409A590. The upgrade costs between $120 and $170/motor depending on the problems they find during he overhaul/upgrade. Mine cost $143 each (both working with one pin failed). If you want a permanent fix for the problem, you can contact Globe Motors at 937 229-8534 and speak to Debbie Anderson or you can email her at danderson@globemotors.com

Ok so i've been meaning to post this for awhile now, but haven't had the chance till now. Well i've heard a lot of people having problems with thier convertible top opening and closing. And usually the motor is still good, except there is a part inside that is broken. What happened with mine was that one of the sides stopped working and my convertible top needed assistance opening and closing. But the motor was still good, cause it still made noise when i pressed the button. The problem was a pin inside. So if you are having this problem, and your motor still sounds good, then try this, and it may solve your problem...

First you'll need to remove your convertible top motor from which ever side isn't working properly. So first remove the bottom part of the seats, they just pop right out, they are held in by two clips in the front. Then you will need to remove the rear plastic panel on the side your trying to get to. Don't worry bout the seat belts, you can leave those attached, cause you just need to get the panel out of the way. After those are out of your way, You should be able to see the convertible top motors. They are held in by 4 10mm bolts, but you will also need to remove the rear speakers and cut a zip tie before you can unplug the wiring clip and remove the motor. After you remove the motor, you will need to take off 4 hex bolts connecting the motor to a black box that has gears in it. After you take that apart, it should look like this...




Now we can take a look at the problem. There is supposed to be a pin that keeps the gear moving when the motor moves. When this pin breaks, the motor will just keep spinning, but it has nothing left to turn the gear. This pin seems to break off since it happened to both of my motors. Im guessing its like a fail safe device or something, if there's too much stress put on the motor is just breaks the pin, so you dont burn out the motor? Thats my guess. Or maybe the pins just suck. Well anyways, it needed to be replaced. Here's a picture of the Motor with the broken pin removed...



Here's a picture of what was left of the pin...



Here's where your gunna need to improvise cuase i couldn't find a part number for the pin. I ended up cutting drill bits in half and using the solid end as the pin, whatever get's it done right? haha Im guessing you could use any pin as long as it fits in the hole pretty snug. I hope this helps

[njccmd2002]

i spent 3 bucks using a titanium drillbit 5 years ago. no problem since.

[SteveO]

I have a 95 Convertible and had an initial question about my car.

I recently purchased the car and where the convertible switch was supposed to be located, it was closed off with a piece of solid plastic. I looked under the plastic when I was changing the radio and saw that the switch was in fact removed, but the plug to accept it was still there.

So I bought the switch on eBay, installed it. Now all I hear is clicking in the back rear when I engage the switch either up or down. To me, that implies the relay and electrics are working to get all the way to the back.

Without further opening the car, does anyone know if the convertible motor is broken, or something else? Curious to diagnose before opening things up.

[StevenD]

Just did the drivers side on my "new" 1998 Celica Convertible, MANY thanks for this thread!

I did motors on my 1995 (sold it a year ago and missed it up till last week when the new kid came home with me) and ordered used motors off E-bay for way too much $$. Looking at the parts left from the motor I disassembled to try and fix it I can see that it was the pin that time as well. I may fix that one for a spare if I can get the pinion off the motor shaft without breaking the aluminum plate for the planetary gearbox. No room to get a pinion puller in there that I've found...

This time it was a three hour fix (mostly getting too the motor) and included replacing the rear speakers. Had to drill the old pin out, it broke off both sides but the bit in the center was not moving...

[CelicaRacer97]

bump

[Markup]

Fantastic to have found this site!

Since reading your generous post here earlier on today I got myself tooled up then went out and attacked the job. I managed to remove the motor (passenger side) and sure enough, there was about 4mm worth of pin lodge within the grease surrounding the main shaft.
Try as I might, I just cannot drive what remains of the pin through the shaft - its as though its a part of the shaft itself - and in the process of trying I have somehow lost the caste type washer that was on the shaft. I think this is to hold the cog on but I tried to slide that along too and its pretty much stuck to the shaft, although before I attempt a reassembley after the fix I will make sure I replace it (the washer).

I just caught our local diy store and bought 5 3/32 drill bits (because thats how confident I am in my general ability :-)) so I will try again, after some food, to drive the stubbornly stuck pin through the shaft.

If I am right in my thinking (that this pin is just in situ to prevent the cog from sliding toward the motor itself, thus disengaging the drive action) would it not be feasible for me to knock a new section of pin into both existing holes on either side of the central spine, as long as they were tight fitting...or am I missing the whole point of why the pin is there at all.

Thanks for putting this here my friend...

Mark

[Markup]

I wonder if I can get someone who may have carried out this fix on the power hood to look at the below images and give an opinion on (in my case) exactly what job the pin does. I notice that my central shaft protrudes out from the centre of the gear wheel further than it does on MaskedMan's but I am not sure if that is an action that happend when voltage is put through the motor or not.

Also, there appears to be a kind of collar around the central shaft of MaskedMan's which is not on mine.

I dont know either if the pin is supposed to be the same length as the diameter of the central shaft or if it's supposed to protrude out of each side by a certain length ...any help or advice here would be greatly appreciated because after struggling to get the pin out which was broken in the hole, I am just not sure what its function is, perhaps if I could understand that I could approach the problem better but I am pretty well stumped at the moment.

These are the images I have taken:

This is an image of what the gear end of MaskedMan's motor looked like...



This is an image of what the gear end of My motor looks like...



This is an image of my motor placed near the scrteen showing a comparison and the differet appearance of the two



thanking you in advance,
Mark

[SteveO]

Update: Glad this conversation is still going. On my side, I opened up the car and found that in fact there were no motors, someone had removed them

So I hunted down motors on eBay and they recently arrived. One thing is it didn't come with the pins, I gather those are separate and on the outside of the motors?

Regardless, I'm first going to send the motors out to the company that manufactured the motor and have them rebuild it.

Another point - I did see on eBay that if you search for 'celica convertible motor' it shows some product listings from other motors which seem to be compatible with Celicas for signficantly less money. I did not want to mess around so much with that but perhaps someone else can comment on that.

[ArcherRich]

To EVERYONE that has added to this post, "THANK YOU"! I've replaced the rolled or tension pins on drivers side 4 times in a week (both coiled and the normal type). The last one is from GRANGER and had specs on the strength (seems like I saw 785 lbs.) If that doesn't work I'm going with the drill bits.

But one person in the 4 pages of posts mentioned their top needed alignment. My concern is that I could damage the motor etc. using the drill bits if there is a problem with alignment or something else increasing the drag.

Can anyone explain how you know if alignment is off or what else might increase drag?

Thanks!

[INTRIPIC]

I am facing the same problem with my 95 Celica gt convertible lift motors. When they started failing, it snapped the frame lift arm in two!! I've disassembled the rear already (need to fix the rear quarter window lift assy. as well)... If anyone who has done this has the ability to cut a pair of those 3/32 1/2" titanium drill bits, I'd gladly pay!

Also - anyone in LA know of where to weld said frame parts together? the main lift arm broke and so did the eye loop with the star shoulder bolt. Is tig or mig necessary or can you propane weld those parts?

ay-yay-yia

[njccmd2002]

i used the drill bits, and never had a problem. as long as both motors are equal strength, it should be fine. there is no way to align the top like most convertible tops. Ive had my drill bit for 9 years until it failed last year. put in another one....

as a common practice. when you see convertible parts on ebay, snag em. go to yards, save those parts. I have spare motors for this reason...

[INTRIPIC]

Yep. This is why my top frame broke. found one pin sheared at both ends. Modified a titanium/cobalt drill bit for replacement, but can't seem to tap the broken middle part of the old one out of the the motor gear for the life of me!! Bent/broke a Dasco 3/32 punch trying to knock it out...

Any ideas or suggestions? Ideas anyone?

This post has been edited by INTRIPIC: Dec 14, 2017 - 11:54 PM

[INTRIPIC]

ADD: can anyone suggest a decent punch for getting that pin out of the convertible motor gear pinion (sheared at BOTH ends). I busted a DASCO 3/32 punch the other day trying to get it out - to no avail.
Is there a stronger or better tool to punch that pin out?

Anyone?

[SOCK327]

So I ended up using a small punch to punch it through with the gear still in place and ran into a snag .. ended up busting the sides of the holes stopping the pin from being able to be punched through and just jamming it in there even more . sooo... I ended up having to use a drill press with a 5/64 sized bit in order to drill the broken pin out . fast forward; I made a new pin out of a 3/32 sized black oxcide bit(thinking of just going cobalt) but the hole seems slightly larger than the new pin. Is it supposed to be a snug fit? ? or it too large now? Does anyone reccomend any sort of adhesive to stop the pin from sliding around and falling out once the motor is reassembled? Thanks in advance

[Charliehbk]

Need help my top stop working . It happened 2 days ago I closed the top at night and the switch got stuck and stay there for day , after that I found out and the tops stop working. Now Everytime I press the convertible switch it just nothing but I hear the clicks at the relay which I just found out underneath the rear left speaker? Why relay click ? Means the relay is bad ? Any sure can kindly give me an advice ? If relay is broke , it is potter brumfield vda1016 12vdc anyone has a spare one as I can't find it anywhere.please help!

[brothersunshine]

Sorry I'm new at this. The left arm bracket made of cast aluminium broke. Probably because the left motor stopped working and seized up. I'm wondering if I can just make it go easier manually ? It seems like the motor is making it hard to move the top manually. Maybe by removing the motor ? Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[CelicaRacer97]

just revisiting this old thread many years later since my last post. UPDATE I still have NOT fixed my motors. ugh