S-afc and Knock, Why is my knock rating high? Options

[HyperDeathKill]

So I'm kind of concerned that my engine is knocking. I just installed an s-afc and I've been monitoring knock, and have gotten numbers as high as 100 on it. It's not a consistant knock, and I can't hear anything, but it sometimes happens when I take my foot off the throttle and when the car shifts.

All I have is an Intake, Exhaust, and Underdrive pulley. I'm not leaning out the engine and I still get the knock numbers when I increase the air/fuel mixture by 10% throughout the band. I've calibrated the thing 3 times, anybody know what is up?

[edo17982]

finally someone raply!!!
Here in Italy now have 35 degrees and 50% humidity and during day my knock sensor reaches 140 at idle after 2 hours in traffic but I have nothing hearable...During evening, when temp is much lower I have a max of 90-100 at idle......let me know your values at idle and at WOT and also the condition u're running (air temp, time running etc...)
For sure my knock should be higher than your due to type of mods, anyway I'm interested to share opinions

This post has been edited by edo17982: Jun 24, 2003 - 10:11 AM

[SiKBOY]

Um, I kind of know that this is off topic, but I was wondering if you guys know if all 5SFE ECU's have all the same pinouts. Whether it be in an MR2 or a Celica in US or in Australia.

I just bought an SAFCII and there isnt a wiring diagram for the ST204 it in the instructions.
There is an how to on one of the other celicawebsites somewhere but I just want to know if all 5SFE ECU's have the same pinouts...

I really dont want to blow up my new SAFC of even worse... blow my ECU or something.

thanks

Hyperdeath, which diagram did you follow and do you have the SAFCII or the 1st gen?

This post has been edited by SiKBOY: Jun 24, 2003 - 11:13 AM

[Supersprynt]

the 5sfe is very similar to the 7afe, but not identical. Get pinouts for both and take note of the differences.

[edo17982]

5SFE pinouts to wire AFC are in the apexi manual.....take a look.

[SiKBOY]

I bought this thing in Japan and its all in Japanese. Anyway, they dont have a listing for the 5SFE because I dont think that they even have a 5SFE engine in Japan.

Any other help would be really appreciated. I think its the T5-C diagram but I want to be absolutly sure before I go splicing.

This post has been edited by SiKBOY: Jun 24, 2003 - 2:01 PM

[edo17982]

you should follow the diagram of the 3SFE in function of your transmission and year.
Persons with 7AFE have to follow diagrams for 4AFE in function of your transmission and year.

[west_minist]

My 2cents worth here!

http://www.apexi.com

Check for documentation.

Knocking is normal guys. You cannot stop it, but you can minimise it.

Once you have the correct a/f ratio and stock timing and tuning, then take your values from there.

One thing that you need to get straight is the figure over a period of time. That is, it it calculated for per min? If so, those values seems quite normal.

The thing is, get a base like (except edo since he have 12+:1 compression) with stock settings.

[HyperDeathKill]

Apexi.com doesn't say anything. I suppose some knocking is normal. I mean, I didn't hear anything before, and my car is kind of close to stock ( intake, exhaust, underdrive and s-afc). I'm going to run high octane and see if it still knocks. I'll write back.

[SiKBOY]

HyperDeath, did you use the T4-f diagram to wire it up? Im just double checking if I have my information right.

[Delta_Phoenix]

I received my S-AFC today and the manual does not list the 5S-FE. It only lists 3S-series engines.

[SiKBOY]

Yeh Im still looking which diagram to follow on the pinouts from the ECU
Toyotacelicaonline.com says to follow the T5-c diagram and then the 3SFE diagram is a different diagram so im stuck!

[HyperDeathKill]

I used the one that toyotacelicaonline said to use. It's T5-C, I just checked it. That one works perfectly for the 5sfe ST204 Celica GT, and I do belive that's the same one as the 3sfe. But I definitly used T5-C.

Oh, and I recommend sodering the wires together. It doesn't take much longer and it gave me more peace of mind.

[SiKBOY]

Thanks Hyperdeathkill, I'll try and fit the bastard in ASAP.
By the way how did you go with those extractors??

[HyperDeathKill]

Extractors? You mean the thing that splices two wires together? I didn't use those, I just stripped both wires, wrapped one around the other, sodered it (very key point), and then used electrical tape over it.

[kuruptedsnake]

ok where can i get one of these things do they help out alot

[HyperDeathKill]

If you mean a sodering iron (the thing you use to put two wires together), you pick it up at any decent tool store. Home Depot, Sears...uh... other tool stores... It'll be like $60-$100. Just read the instructions, it's easy to use. If that doesn't help you, I could tell you. It's a real useful tool.

[SiKBOY]

I think we got a mix up. Extractors are the same as a header. You were on the lookout for some and I as just wondering if you got a set for your car yet.

I'm still a bit iffy on the SAFC wiring because on the apexi site, They only have the wiring for the 1st SAFC. I bought the SAFC II and I had a brief look at the Japanese manual that it came with and there is 1 extra wire on the diagrams. So that throws a spanner in the works.

Do you have the SAFC with the Dial or the one with the buttons?
I did a search on the MR2 boards on the wiring for the SAFC and they used the T4-f wiring diagram and they said that it worked as well.

Im still lost!.

[SiKBOY]

I FINALLY got this prick in, with dodgey soldering and all.
I followed the T5-C diagram but I don't get a knock reading at all. I get knock readings on the "SENSOR CHECK" under "ETC" of about 20 when just ideling. I double checked my wiring to see if I connected the knocck wire to the correct pinout and its correct.

Have I hooked it up wrong? How can the SAFC get a knock reading on the sensor check and not read any knock on a Channel 1 under "KNOCK"?

Thanks everyone for helping me out. I am probably going to book some dyno time in to get it tuned properly.

This post has been edited by SiKBOY: Jul 1, 2003 - 11:25 PM

[HyperDeathKill]

Did you calibrate your knock sensor? Hey, and when you dyno it make sure to post it online! I'm posting mine tomarrow.

[SiKBOY]

How do you calibrate the knock sensor? As you will probably know all my instructions are in Japanese and I am going off the instructions that are on the apexi.com which are for the SAFC with the buttons not the rotating knob. I am kind of scared to play with it too much cuz I dont want to mess up my car. I already thought I messed it up when it was nearly stalling.... I set the "PRESSURE" "IN and OUT" to 2 instead of 3.

[edo17982]

ok....about knock is normal that you don't read nothing on the channel monitor, cause it says just when the knock goes over the values you set in Settings->Knk set menu. there you have to insert a value for idle and one at about 3k RPMs.
Anyway....in sensor check display you read the actual knocking value.
Tell me this: you said that at idle your knk is about 20....mine too when the engine is cold....
Can you say me your idle knocking value after at least 30 minutes of engine run?

Thx

Edoardo

[SiKBOY]

I havent taken the car out on a run yet. Ive only started it up to see that it actually works, thats how I got the cold Idle knock reading from the check sensor display. but I'll get back to you when I do take it out for a run

How do you know what values to set at idle and what values you set at 3k?

[edo17982]

I suggest you this: let the engine become at normal operating temperature, then go on the settings ->knk set page
Now just rev at about the RPM level disdlayed at point 1 and hit the center button to the right (or bottom, I don't remember). You'll see the value you memorized for that RPM level.
Now do the same for the RPM level at point 2.
Now If you go on Monitor -> 1(2,3or4) channel -> knk you'll see if the knk you set for that RPMs is higher than what you set.
Hope you understand, I'm italian and my english isn't perfect!
Any question feel free to ask

This post has been edited by edo17982: Jul 2, 2003 - 5:44 AM

[edo17982]

another thing....In & out pressure is 01 and 01 not 3.....we just have 1 pressure sensor signal (in) and 1 wire to the ECU (out)

[HyperDeathKill]

Wait, edo are you sure about the pressure thing? I have mine set at pr in 03 and out 03. Remeber you can download the instructions onine in english at www.apexi.com.

[edo17982]

I just was remembering wrong, I set 3, sorry to all!!

[HyperDeathKill]

Yea, anyway your english is pretty good, don't worry about it. SikBOY if you still need help you can hit me up on AIM at HyperDeathKill.

[SiKBOY]

Edo, I have those numbers that you were after. After about half an hour of just cruising around the knock figures that I got from the test sensor mode are between 50-80.

In the knock setting mode I've got a reading of:

53@ 1300 RPMS
126@ 3200RPMS

I didnt really get a chance to set it though. I just highlighted it but it didnt give me any option to put in numbers or anything so I dunno how it chose those numbers. It just did it automatically. I am guessing that that is supposed to happen.

Hyper, I love your " I want to upgrade my hamburger" topic. Its a CLASSIC!

This post has been edited by SiKBOY: Jul 3, 2003 - 12:00 AM