4th gen 3SGTE Swap into '94 Celica ST, With auto/manual conversion, FMIC, etc, etc, etc... Options

[Dr_Tweak]

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Sep 15, 2006 - 2:11 PM

[devilsden97]

4th gen? oh snap! st215...oh snap!

[LewFX]

we need a west coast 6gc swapper expert

[lagos]

nice work. but where is the st215 motor at? lol

[WH95TE]

I need money I wanna send my car to the Dr.

[team_omega]

man you need to come to the midwest, like chicago or something.....lol....

[presure2]

looks like fun so far tweek

[easternpiro1]

is what i say.... OUTSTANDING DOC!!!

[My2Celi]

LOL

[easternpiro1]

here u go lagos! pretty clean aint it? i was impressed!!!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 15, 2006 - 5:21 PM

[lagos]

yeah, it looks nice. congrads.

[6th_celi_vert]

Hey doc, would you be willing to fly down to rockcastle county Kentucky?


By the way, this isnt a joke.

[azian_advanced]

you just made us all jealous now

[CelicaB]

hey, what'd u add the little brake booster for? matt dont need 2 brake pedals

as usual very nice work by Dr. Tweak

and congrats matt, i know you'll enjoy it

[j0e_p3t]

we need a west coast 6gc swapper expert

x2

[Dr_Tweak]

Thanks for the positive comments everyone

Hey doc, would you be willing to fly down to rockcastle county Kentucky?


By the way, this isnt a joke.

Kentucky isn't that far away compared to a lot of people that drive or ship their cars down to me. Send it on over!

-Doc

[hitcachi]

i should hope its clean, its only a few years old.

[Punch]

good job doc keep up the good work hope to see many more...

[Akira_g4]

we need a west coast 6gc swapper expert

yea totally agree with ya lew!

[Chanh55]

Easternpiro... now you can finally show those Honda guys what's up.

Congrats on the swap... it's gonna be soo sweet.

[Valo666]

holy crap!..i want how much power does a 4th gen produce compaired to a 3rd gen??/is the 4th gen the same 3s out of a Calidna??

[devilsden97]

holy crap!..i want how much power does a 4th gen produce compaired to a 3rd gen??/is the 4th gen the same 3s out of a Calidna??

yes the 4th gen is out of the caldina, and its drops 255hp (i donno wheel hp)

[Kadett]

260bhp vs 242-255bhp for the 3rd gen.

What I still dont understand is why they went back for air-air intercooler.

[easternpiro1]

hey, what'd u add the little brake booster for? matt dont need 2 brake pedals

as usual very nice work by Dr. Tweak

and congrats matt, i know you'll enjoy it

is that what that was in the first pic? a brake booster eh? hmmm whats that for?

holy crap!..i want how much power does a 4th gen produce compaired to a 3rd gen??/is the 4th gen the same 3s out of a Calidna??

ive been told its 260 hp but im thinking that its at the wheels. in another post i had, someone showed the dyno chart for a 4th gen and it said 232 whp but it was only at 11psi, stock psi is 14! which means about 10hp per pound? which is right around 260whp

someone correct me if im wrong?

[lagos]

its 260 at the crank ... but that really means nothing because all that changes as soon as you start to mod the motor up.

the 2nd gen 3sgte is rated at something like 220hp, but almost every one with a swap is at around 260crank with basic bolt ons anyway.

go to a dyno when your car is running. then youll fiind out for sure were you are at with the mods you have added to it (fmic, exhaust, etc).

[easternpiro1]

is that with a 3s flywheel? because i think it has a 5s flywheel on there, power transfer may be different?

[playr158]

like i told you ealier...get rid of that 5sfe fly wheel and tell tweek to put on a 3sgte flywheel

i believe the proper combination is

3s Flywheel and disk
with a 3s pressure plate iwth 5sfe splines

DO IT RIGHT

[Bitter]

a large air to air is better for the rally enviroment because the car is always moving and the heat wont soak back into the intake charge, unlike stop and go. when you're off boost the heat soaked into the IC can flow back into your intake charge which is now cooler than the IC is, this applies to both water and air intercoolers. if you have an air-water you have to be able to move ALOT of heat out of the system through large radiators with alot of water flow to keep the heat soaked system from being hotter than the off boost or low boost intake charge. if its air to air then you'd need a massive FMIC or a pair of sidemounts and even a front mount, but with all that you get pressure drops and more possible leaks. also theres the durability aspect, an air-air IC doesnt have moving parts, where as water-air has a pump and fans.

[lagos]

is that with a 3s flywheel? because i think it has a 5s flywheel on there, power transfer may be different?

thats power at the crank . changing a flywheel wont give you more/less power and has nothing to do with power transfer.

[gt_driFFter]

lol three colors on your car (engine bay). Engine looks nice, it'll look a little weird sitting in a different color engine bay though lol. Congrats though!

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

like i told you ealier...get rid of that 5sfe fly wheel and tell tweek to put on a 3sgte flywheel

i believe the proper combination is

3s Flywheel and disk
with a 3s pressure plate iwth 5sfe splines

DO IT RIGHT

The pressure plate doesn't have splines Dan, the clutch disk does. I would think the correct setup would be using a 3SGTE flywheel(to bolt up to the engine properly), 5SFE disk (to match the S54's splines, if thats the trans you use) and 3SGTE pressure plate. Then I believe you shall be doing it right.

Good luck easternpiro, thats going to be a very fast and fun car once you get it back.

[Dr_Tweak]

like i told you ealier...get rid of that 5sfe fly wheel and tell tweek to put on a 3sgte flywheel

i believe the proper combination is

3s Flywheel and disk
with a 3s pressure plate iwth 5sfe splines

DO IT RIGHT

Please don't post when you have no idea what you're talking about.

The combo that most people use is, 3S flywheel, 3S pressure plate, and either a 5S disc or a 3S disc splined for the 5S. Since the only company that makes the 5s splined 3s disc is SPEC, and they haven't been doing that well for us lately, and we have a 5S flywheel (which bolts to the 3S perfectly), the logical solution is to use a high performance 5S clutch kit. This will also simplify things down the road if and when the clutch needs to be replaced again.

By the way, the difference in the total outside diameter between the 5S and 3S clutch discs is barely 1/4". The whole issue of using a 3S disc is highly overrated. I'm actually considering using the 5S flywheel and a good stage 2 or stage 3 clutch kit on ALL my swaps from now on.

-Doc

[jgreening]

like i told you ealier...get rid of that 5sfe fly wheel and tell tweek to put on a 3sgte flywheel

i believe the proper combination is

3s Flywheel and disk
with a 3s pressure plate iwth 5sfe splines

DO IT RIGHT

Please don't post when you have no idea what you're talking about.

The combo that most people use is, 3S flywheel, 3S pressure plate, and either a 5S disc or a 3S disc splined for the 5S. Since the only company that makes the 5s splined 3s disc is SPEC, and they haven't been doing that well for us lately, and we have a 5S flywheel (which bolts to the 3S perfectly), the logical solution is to use a high performance 5S clutch kit. This will also simplify things down the road if and when the clutch needs to be replaced again.

By the way, the difference in the total outside diameter between the 5S and 3S clutch discs is barely 1/4". The whole issue of using a 3S disc is highly overrated. I'm actually considering using the 5S flywheel and a good stage 2 or stage 3 clutch kit on ALL my swaps from now on.

-Doc

wisdom. well said.

[phattyduck]

Oh, the memories!!



Gotta love wiring!

-Charlie

[easternpiro1]

lol three colors on your car (engine bay). Engine looks nice, it'll look a little weird sitting in a different color engine bay though lol. Congrats though!

yeah, i left the engine bay alone...but imma ghetto rig the inside of the hood later

yeah, that wiring looks like a beast! it looked pretty cut and dry when tweak showed me the plugs from the 3s...but JEEZ! it looked like my car vomited a rainbow!

[sinner96ST]

yeah that wiring looks intimidating.

keep up the good work, tweak. i think your swaps pretty much speak for themselves, everyone seems to be a satisfied customer!

[playr158]

like i told you ealier...get rid of that 5sfe fly wheel and tell tweek to put on a 3sgte flywheel

i believe the proper combination is

3s Flywheel and disk
with a 3s pressure plate iwth 5sfe splines

DO IT RIGHT

The pressure plate doesn't have splines Dan, the clutch disk does. I would think the correct setup would be using a 3SGTE flywheel(to bolt up to the engine properly), 5SFE disk (to match the S54's splines, if thats the trans you use) and 3SGTE pressure plate. Then I believe you shall be doing it right.

Good luck easternpiro, thats going to be a very fast and fun car once you get it back.

yea thanks corey it was late at night i just miss typed the wording blah!

hey tweek kiss my ass it was a miss type, i know perfectly well wtf i'm saying:)

[easternpiro1]

fellas...please be nice.....

[celicast3sgte]

miss type or not you still dont know what your talking about. specialize in swaps or do numerous different ones THEN talk. honestly dont get all defensive when you made a mistake. except it.

BTW, i run 5s stuff as well CF dual friction baby!!!!!

[playr158]

i already excepted the mistake..
and i know exactly what i'm talking about when it comes to clutches..and who said i've never swapped a 3sgte into a few celicas b4 and done trannies?

yea exactly you don't know

but get back to topic...sorry matt

hows your ride comin along

This post has been edited by playr158: Sep 18, 2006 - 7:22 PM

[WannabeGT4]

Get off playr's nuts people... besides the fact that the 3S clutch disk has more surface area is the fact that the 3S flywheel is supposedly lighter than the 5S. We all know that less rotating mass is generally a good thing depending on the application.

[lagos]

clutchmasters can also make you a custom disk if you want them to. act can probably do it too. the reason why we know spec does custom disks is because i called them and asked if it was possible. turned out to be popular enough that they now have a part number for it..lol ... point being, i think almost any clutch maker can do it, you just have to call them directly.

if the 5sfe flywheel bolts right up, then its an easy fix for the clutch issue.

[easternpiro1]

I found out that tweak will be putting in a ACT clutch (stage 2 i think) how do ya like those apples folks?

im just worried b/c im a rookie at manual, im not horrible, but I just havent had practice recently so im rusty... cross your fingers


i await tweak and his co-workers laughing their asses of (along with my friends with me) when i stal out

[celica47]

LOL well dont get fancy bro....just get out the parking lot and youre good. Rember ease off the cluth and give it some gas.

[j0e_p3t]

learning on a fast car is hard. i tried my dad's boxster and stalled like a b*tch. then i drove my dad's old benz with like 75 hp and only 4 gears.... so much easier. but not as fun. and i'm pretty sure you'll have lots of fun.

[WH95TE]

You could just spin the tires until you're far enough away from them to drive normal/stall

[easternpiro1]

anymore pics tweak? me need them!

[Drew-887]

How much this swap gonna cost you?

[celicast3sgte]

^^^ that question is probably better answered silently

[easternpiro1]

^^^ that question is probably better answered silently

i agree.... but really its only 6000 bucks! plus a couple hundred for a couple of goodies

[H8DC3lica94]

i thought this was a 4th generation 3sgte motor (which doesnt exist). now i see its a 3sgte from a 4th gen celica. makes more sense.

[95CelicaST]

i thought this was a 4th generation 3sgte motor (which doesnt exist). now i see its a 3sgte from a 4th gen celica. makes more sense.

No, not a 3S from a 4th Gen Celica, its a 4th Gen 3S from a Caldina.

1st gen 3s - ST-165
2nd gen 3s - ST185
3rd gen 3s - ST-205
4th gen 3s - ST-215 (Caldina)

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Sep 28, 2006 - 9:04 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Woah, update time, or what? As easternpiro could tell you, life has been CRAZY for me the past few weeks, and I haven't been able to devote the time that I've wanted to put into the Celica. Finally though, things are settling and I'm getting this baby finished up! I'd like to thank easternpiro for his patience and understanding while we rebuild his car into a mean street machine!




Here's a good shot of the 4th gen 3SGTEs one-peice manifold/turbine design. Just so everyone knows, the bolt pattern here is NOT the same as the ST185 OR the ST205, so aftermarket downpipes for those engines don't work!




Engine installed with clocked turbo...



These will be TIG-welded together to make custom a/c lines. A/C, P/S, and all other accessories are being retained, as usual.









Just a few things to finish up: intercooler piping (we got a little messed up on an order of silicone connectors, so we're waiting on those), throttle cable, fluids, install a/c lines, make a custom radiator hose, custom clutch line, and a few other finishing touches.

-Doc

[celica47]

mannn great job tweak looks good.

[My2Celi]

wow nice work. damn i cant wait to get my tuuurtle. tuuuuuuurbo.

[lagos]

nice job. looks good, but clean that thing up . its very dirty!

that turbo and manifold sure is odd. does it say anything on the turbo that would tell us what those things come with? ct2x?

[easternpiro1]

*************************************************




i fainted....

[purplegt4]

holy rusted metal tweak.

_____

damn i wanna see that thing in action. gL on perfecting manual transmissions! haha just dont practice something wrong and end up needing a new clutch. btw break it in.

[presure2]

damn that motor is dirty...
what kinda mantinence/ repairs were done on it?

[devilsden97]

[img]

these even the same motor? (like same PHYSICAL motor, i understand there bother st215s)



btw awsome job tweak, ive been waiting to see this swap happen.

[Dr_Tweak]

It's not really that dirty in person, it is pretty dusty though.

The turbo doesn't say anything on it that tells what it is, just says Toyota. The one-peice design is pretty standard these days, most every turbo car out there is using it. The SRT4, for example.

No maintenance items on the engine were done other than the clutch. Normally I recommend a full reseal/timing belt/water pump, but we didn't because 1. Money and 2. This engine is a '99 so it's quite new compared to the '93 or older 2nd gens that we're usually dealing with.

-Doc

[6G94celica]

Hey doc my name is jaryd and i will hopefully be atempting a swap here very soon. I heard that i could send you the wiring harness to get it rewired to fit my 1994 st. how much will this cost and do i need to send the harness from my st and the one from the new engine or just the new engine harness. also if it is not to much to ask would you be able to check out the following to engines and tell me what you think if they are any good or not.
http://www.flashoptions.com/product.asp?prodID=199 (its the carlos sainz edition)
and
http://www.jarcoinc.com/inventory/halfcuts/ (its the st 185 rc about halfway through the toyota section, its got a leaky radiator but nothing else wrong with it and 85,000 miles on it ive seen a video of it running and boosting) thanks for the help doc hope to hear back soon.
P.S. if you wish not to help i realize you are probably very busy and its ok if you do not have time to do this but thanks again.

Jaryd Jaymz

[easternpiro1]

i dont see the polyurethane motor mount inserts, didnt they come in red?

[chacha]

repaint the engine and manifold...make it bleam out and scream at the crowds...lol

[playr158]

i dont see the polyurethane motor mount inserts, didnt they come in red?

cause they arn't inthere.....those are just stockers from the pics

[celiracer]

WOW i wish i had the kind of money to get my motor swapped by him. But he's to far away and i'll have to do it by myself. But yup i hope you like the power.

[easternpiro1]

ITS AALIIIIIIIIVEEEE!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Oct 6, 2006 - 4:39 PM

[lagos]

ITS AALIIIIIIIIVEEEE!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

thats ****ing awesome

[j0e_p3t]

sweet. now find those guys that talked smack on how slow your car is.... was.

[6th_celi_vert]

ITS AALIIIIIIIIVEEEE!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

that picture is awesome....


now my background.

[GramGreg]

you got that all swapped in in less than a month!! my gosh you do fast work

[Jen]

Ahahaha, I love that picture. I demand more PICTURES and VIDEOS.

[dustinkemp]

sweetness!!!!!!!!!

Congrats to you

[celica47]

Mann bro looks awsome, youre a pioneer too. LEt us know how the St215 is....and then tell me about that price lol

[Dr_Tweak]

Hey doc my name is jaryd and i will hopefully be atempting a swap here very soon. I heard that i could send you the wiring harness to get it rewired to fit my 1994 st. how much will this cost and do i need to send the harness from my st and the one from the new engine or just the new engine harness. also if it is not to much to ask would you be able to check out the following to engines and tell me what you think if they are any good or not.
http://www.flashoptions.com/product.asp?prodID=199 (its the carlos sainz edition)
and
http://www.jarcoinc.com/inventory/halfcuts/ (its the st 185 rc about halfway through the toyota section, its got a leaky radiator but nothing else wrong with it and 85,000 miles on it ive seen a video of it running and boosting) thanks for the help doc hope to hear back soon.
P.S. if you wish not to help i realize you are probably very busy and its ok if you do not have time to do this but thanks again.

Jaryd Jaymz

If you have the complete ST harness and the complete 3SGTE harness, then the cost is $350 plus $30 for shipping, and yes, I will need both of the harnesses.

As for the engines, just make sure that you're getting an uncut harness, with ECU, coil and ignitor, resistor packs, AFM (for the 2nd gen) and MAP sensor. As long as you're getting all of that and the importer has a decent reputation, you should be good to go.

-Doc

[devilsden97]

veryy cool! sickest **** ever! i was waiting for someone to do an st215.


love the front mount, and that picture.

6gc.net Demands videos, and more pictures.


steve..bring that **** up to ny, and give me a shout.

[Dr_Tweak]

I've got a bunch more pics at the shop, but I've got a big show going down this weekend so I won't be able to put them up until Monday.

Well... I suppose that if you all asked VERY nicely I could get a up a little earlier and upload them in the morning...

[j0e_p3t]

pretty please?

[presure2]

good work tweek!
enjoy the boost man!!

[Punch]

good job doc... another 1 under your belt!!! make these celica guys happy... love to see good work... you go DOC!!!

[easternpiro1]

ah the swap was AWESOME! tweak took her on this parkway and OPENED HER UP! it was CRAZY! i dont want to say exactly how fast we were going in 4th gear but it was VERY impressive! illneversellmyceli was in the back seat gettin thrown around! i must say it was WELL worth the wait! to all the wanna-be swappers soon to be swappers- IT IS WORTH IT! the feel is awesome from 7a-3s....is a WRAP! hands down the high point of my year!

BTW....doc set my car at low boost mode 8psi as a precaution until i get a boost controller and gauges installed...i cant IMAGINE how its going to feel at 14psi...

UNFORTUNATLEY...the radiator BLEW UP....literally! its was CRAZY how it happend (nobody was hurt thank god)...had a hairline crack in the radiator and once i pulled into autozone (around the corner from tweak's shop THANK GOD) it blew. liquid spouted out a few feet in all directions and got all over some lady's truck next to me (she freaked out) . so its still in ga and doc (who seemed more upset about the whole thing than me ) is going to throw another ST radiator in.

doc has been GREAT he perfected everything and remained patient with me (even when i got testy and antsy) and was professional the whole time...if you want your swap done RIGHT take it to the man!

Illneversellmyceli came along and has been BIG help the whole time! he put up the $$ for me to pay for the radiator! i owe him big time! he even offered to take me back next weekend to get the car. shout out to illneversell!

[illneversellmyce...]

YEp I had a blast, I never imagined how much of an impovement the swap is. NUmbers are numbers but wow is all you can say when you get to feel it.

oh yeah matt btw nice to meet glad to help you out, I felt so bad when your radiator blew, that's like getting your christmas presents taken away from you after you open them lol.

Oh yeah tweak is the man, you all new that. But he went out of his way to try to get us radiator adn made sure we got matt's beast celi back to the shop.

No it's time to fix up easternpro's interior, i think i can help their.

Oh yeah matt why haven't you posted alive pics yet lol. oops yeah you did it's on page 4. HEY EVERY BODY THINK I HAVE A CAREER IN PHOTOGRAPHY LOL, I TOOK THAT PIC.

well even though we did not bring it home that was the most fun I've had in a while felt jsut liek a rollercaoster ride.

oh ya future tweak customer here indeed

This post has been edited by illneversellmycelli: Oct 7, 2006 - 9:10 PM

[illneversellmyce...]

this is me neversellmycelli (name is NICK btw) , and tweak right besdie matt's celli. Just had this pic taken to prove i was there lol

[easternpiro1]

that grin tweak had is classic, its the same grin he had when we rolled up on the shop

[lagos]

just wait untill you turn up the boost. its a whole new car.

glad you like it tho. after a while, you wont remember how a stock celica feels.

[Dr_Tweak]

Looking for these?





This, I think, is pretty sick. From time to time I'll run into an engine that has had the oil drained out of it for some time, and it will have a hard time picking the oil up during the priming process (removing spark plugs and cranking with the EFI fuse pulled). So I was trying to think of a good way to get the oil system primed. Then inspiration struck... why not use an old fuel pump, and hook it up to the oil pressure fitting? (BK cup is full of engine oil)



Note the custom install of the factory 4th Gen 3SGTE's Blow-off Valve. It sounds nice, too!



Proof that it's now a manual!





"Hey Doc, you didn't get a "Dr Tweak" pose done for me. That AIN'T COOL, man. You're going DOWN!"



"But the engine is already in!!! Well, let me think here..."



AHA!



This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Oct 9, 2006 - 11:43 AM

[Chanh55]

First 4th Gen swap on 6gc? Nice work Tweak as usual and congrats on the new engine Piro.

[Dr_Tweak]

First 4th Gen swap on 6gc? Nice work Tweak as usual and congrats on the new engine Piro.

There was a guy a while ago that posted his up, he lives up in Quebec, but I don't know if he ever got it running right or not. This baby runs perfect, no CELs. So I guess it's the second one.

-Doc

[WH95TE]

Looks really good man. I NEED SOME CASH!!!!!

[celicaracer18]

Hi, i was doing this but ended up with the third gen instead, i still have the cladina block that is fully built, and the head and turbo as well, the manifold went on the motor in the car.

but anyways, is there anyway you can get a pic of the MAF, i would like to know exactly what it looks like, is it at the TB? or befor the turbo

[Dr_Tweak]

There is no MAF or AFM, it's a MAP-sensored engine.

-Doc

[celicaracer18]

ok thats what i thought/what i was told, but i thought a read a comment about a maf, but i can't find it now, oh well

[yenQ]

Hi Dr_Tweak and other member

i am a new join guy ,from taiwan
nice to meet u

i have one question for this refit
hope u can give answer for me, thx!

when you clocked the turbo
how does u install the actuator and attached rod
i can't understand the the location of install from picture

that's all

thx

[easternpiro1]

that is a good question! I honestly dont know how doc did it as far as the actuator rod is concerned... I cant remember at this moment... He may have made a custom bracket for it. Tweak is ont on this site as much anymore however hit up Phoenix tuning on her and ask camshaft cam he works with tweak