Which Would You Rather Own?, Stock Boosted Cars Options

[devilsden97]

Basic idea is, I was speaking to Maskedman about this topic. (in around about way)

We were saying how all the NEW cars, (pretty general rationalization) we wouldnt buy. Long story short, we got into discussing prices, and how EVOs and STIs hold the market for the "sports sedan". Then I remembered running across an article in Car and Driver, or some magazine like that. Saying that Mazda's sport division, MazdaSpeed, was putting out a Turbocharged, AWD, version of there already criticly aclaimed version of the 6. (the Mazda 6 won numerious awards for value, and styling, when it was initially introduced)

So it got me thinking, Which would you rather own? and Why?

(This is an open poll for discussion, but please do not bash others opinions. Links of facts and specs are welcome to validate points of view)

[MaskedMan]

Well here are some of the stats comparing the 3 to make it easier to take a look at. All of them are 6-speed manual AWD 4 cylinders sedans.

Evo MR / Subi STi / MazdaSpeed6


Engine : 2.0lt 286HP / 2.5lt 300HP / 2.3lt 274HP

WEIGHT : 3285 lbs / 3351 lbs / 3589 lbs

BASE PRICE : $34,089 / $32,923 / $27,406

MPG HWY/CTY : 24/18 / 24/18 / 26/20

This post has been edited by MaskedMan: Sep 17, 2006 - 3:08 PM

[devilsden97]

MazdaSpeed6:
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPag...vehicleCode=MS6

Subaru STI:
http://www.subaru.com/shop/specifications....ory=PERFORMANCE

Mitsubishi Evo IX MR:
http://www.mitsubishimotors.com/MMSA/jsp/l...sp?t=mechanical

these are all the mechanical specs for the cars. But you can get to all the other specs from the links above as well.

[devilsden97]

Explination for why I voted for what I voted for.

I voted for the MazdaSpeed 6.

Based on the idea that all the cars are turbocharged, AWD, 6spd transmissions, I decided to negate all that information. (like horsepower, and such. [yes i understand that the STI has 300, while the 6 only has 274, but in reality, there almost the same. very few people will beable to tell the difference])


So I started with Price.

MazdaSpeed 6 Grand Touring (top model)

6-speed manual transmission
Active Torque Split all-wheel drive
18-inch alloy wheels
Leather-trimmed seats
8-way power driver's seat
Heated front seats and mirrors
Advanced keyless entry and start system
Bose surround sound

Options added: Navigation system
Power Sunroof

Final price: $ 33,285

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/selectConf...;x=123&y=14
^EXACTLY what I built

Subaru STI:

IMPREZA - WRX STI SEDAN
Exterior: Aspen White
Interior: Blue Alcantara
Transmission: Manual 6-speed

Base MSRP* $32,995
Transmission $0
Packages $0
Accessories $669
Destination & Delivery $625

Total $34,289

Options:
Fogs (both other cars come standard with fog lamps)
Subwoofer

http://www.subaru.com/shop/configurator/st...m=WRX_STI_SEDAN
^this is EXACTLY what I built

Lancer Evolution MR

MSRP* $ 36,299

Comes standard with: a factory performance-tuned (2.0-liter, MIVEC DOHC, 16-valve, turbocharged and intercooled) engine with 286 horsepower and 289 lb-ft of torque, front-mounted air-to-air intercooler, close-ratio six-speed manual transmission with aluminum shift knob* and Teflon-coated cables, full-time AWD with an electronic Active Center Differential (with three driver-selectable modes—tarmac, snow and gravel), aluminum body panels (roof, front fenders and hood), turbo boost gauge kit*, aluminum sport pedals, four-wheel ventilated Brembo® disc brakes with four-channel Mitsubishi Sports anti-lock system (with Electronic Brakeforce Distribution), 17" x 8" double-seven spoke BBS® forged aluminum alloy wheels, wheel locks*, W-speed rated Yokohama P235/45 Advan® (high-grip, soft-compound) radial tires, four-wheel independent suspension with inverted Bilstein® mono-tube front and rear dampers, front Recaro® bucket seats with premium Alcantara® fabric, leather-wrapped Momo® three-spoke steering wheel, color-keyed rear spoiler with carbon-fiber airfoil and wickerbill**, roof-mounted rear Vortex Generator*, HID headlights with in-cluster halogen fog lights, 140-watt CD audio system with six speakers, power windows/locks/mirrors, keyless-entry system and more.

(Evo MR has no options (other then performance), what you get is listed above.)

After seeing all this, that basicly clinched it. PRICE does matter.
MazdaSpeed6 +1

If you wanna ignore that. Then thats ok. Ill go into my opinons then.

I like the idea of a "sleeper," if you look at the STI and EVO MR, they have huge wings and other such parifinalia that make them extra flashy. I like a car thats not to flamboyant. (sp) I like a car that is refined, and has some luxury items. (like heated leather seats, navigation, etc.) The only car that even offered thos options was the MazdaSpeed6. The MR and STI are stricktly race cars. And yes, if thats what your buying it for, then I would probally say go with one of those because the after market on them are insane. But for me, it would be a daily driver, that you can pow wow around the track with some of the better cars. (STI and EVO MR included). Daily Drivability +1

Another thing that I like about the MazdaSpeed6 is that its unique. (like the 6gc) How many people here came into this thread, and were like "MazdaSpeed6? what car is that?". How many STI's and Evos do you see daily? How about at your local tuner scene? How many MazdaSpeed6's are out there? Honestly, almost none. Uniqueness +1.

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 17, 2006 - 3:38 PM

[Shocker]

i voted for the mazda..I voted mazda based on driving in a protege speed it was a very fun car to driving its not the fastest car out there but definatly a joy to drive..and i think mazda is kinda of up and coming in the sport compact market and with the success with the rx7 and a few miatas..i think they will be working hard for quite awhile to creat a an affordable car fot the import scene.

[Culpable04]

MAZDA = Ford

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Sep 17, 2006 - 7:00 PM

[MaskedMan]

The Mazda rx-8 is a rather nice car already popular in the import scene. Yes it feels rather underpowered for a car that is supposed to replace the RX7, but still, people that were willing to put the time and money into it have made some pretty impressive rides. But this thread isn't about the RX-8. I voted for the EVO MR, i mean, it's not a hands down decision, cuase i would love to have any one of those rides, but the reason i went with the EVO MR was becuase it is one BAMF car. I don't have good reasoning for my choice haha.

[WH95TE]

STi but id rather have an 03' body.

[spolski07]

STI
for the sole fact
that im one of the few people who absolutely love the new front
and 300HP AWD is amazing
i have my daily driver (celica, duh!)
so id get an STI for the track, i never see them down here
the mazdaspeed6 i dont see, but i see the normal 6's
and i see normal lancers
i never see impreza's or wrx's or STI's

[devilsden97]

MAZDA = Ford

i know this.

ever heard of the Ford Escort Cosworth?

not to mention, subi is made by GM (so i believe)
and the evo is a DSM (no matter how u slice it, ur gonna break something)

I rest my case, im sticking with the MazdaSpeed6


This post has been edited by devilsden97: Sep 17, 2006 - 10:45 PM

[lagos]

i voted for the EVO9.

hands down the best car out of all of those. my buddy has one and let me drive it as well as go on a few rides with him. its an amazing car. the power, grip, handeling and brakes are just amazing. not to mention they are very easy to mod. he dynoed bone stock at 260hp at the wheels. then last week he got a 3in turbo back exhaust and went back to the dyno. he did 292hp! his only mods are the ehxaust and a filter on the intake instead of the factory air box! they run 20psi stock, and have an electronic cam timing (think vvtli, vtec, etc.) he said that with an ecu flash and an mbc (just to hold the boost steady) the car will make 340hp the wheels.

i used to really like the 05 sti. blue with gold bbs rims looks just so awesome on that car. but after learing more about them, and talking to alot of their owners, its clear that the evo9 is a much better car.

This post has been edited by lagos: Sep 17, 2006 - 11:08 PM

[Akimbo]

EVO9, no doubt about it. The Mazda is slow and has a sloppy transmission, according to most reviews. Not that it isn't comfortable though.

[Shocker]

i change my vote to a 1989 grand national...or GNX,,,cheaper and go up in value

This post has been edited by Shocker: Sep 18, 2006 - 12:01 AM

[95sweetness]

definitly for evo 9...the introduction of mivec, more aggressive ecu and better/stronger 4g63 then before..ppl with just turbo back , mbc n a tune (ecuflash) are makin of upward to 350 whp.. amazing with just 3 things can put soo much hp on the 9

[Davesceli]

I chose the evo9. The new subie is just ugly, i hate that front end. Since he said 06-07, i had to go the evo, the mr is just beautiful!!!

[hitcachi]

subaru has since changed the front end of the new WRX's and other models. They've done away with it already.

[boosted_K2]

evo is the best car on that list by far performance wise. BTW, there is no 07 evo... it is taking a year off before the X comes out in 08

[boosted_K2]

MAZDA = Ford

not to mention, subi is made by GM (so i believe)
and the evo is a DSM (no matter how u slice it, ur gonna break something)

I rest my case, im sticking with the MazdaSpeed6

#1 there is no such thing as a DSM car anymore... the term DSM refers to vehicles made as a joint venture between chrysler and mitsubishi and these vehicles were all made in the USA (never sold in japan).
heres something for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Mo...ring_of_America

#2 GM and subaru are about as closely tied as toyota and GM. subaru is actually a product of fuji heavy industries (hmmm could this be why on their VIN plates they say "fuji heavy industries" hmmmm) GM owned a small portion of subaru in the early-mid 2000s and used that to create the 92X, last year GM backed out (likely because the saabarus didnt sell well and saab had to practically give them away, and i would speculate that subaru wouldnt let them dictate their operations, but thats just my opinion) the 92x is now discontinued, and subaru continues to do its own thing. more reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-2X

[saleeka]

/\ DSM's were actually imported in limited numbers to Japan (Eclipses, both first and second gens.)

This post has been edited by saleeka: Sep 18, 2006 - 8:43 AM

[devilsden97]

evo is the best car on that list by far performance wise. BTW, there is no 07 evo... it is taking a year off before the X comes out in 08

My bad sorry.

MAZDA = Ford

not to mention, subi is made by GM (so i believe)
and the evo is a DSM (no matter how u slice it, ur gonna break something)

I rest my case, im sticking with the MazdaSpeed6

#1 there is no such thing as a DSM car anymore... the term DSM refers to vehicles made as a joint venture between chrysler and mitsubishi and these vehicles were all made in the USA (never sold in japan).
heres something for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Mo...ring_of_America

#2 GM and subaru are about as closely tied as toyota and GM. subaru is actually a product of fuji heavy industries (hmmm could this be why on their VIN plates they say "fuji heavy industries" hmmmm) GM owned a small portion of subaru in the early-mid 2000s and used that to create the 92X, last year GM backed out (likely because the saabarus didnt sell well and saab had to practically give them away, and i would speculate that subaru wouldnt let them dictate their operations, but thats just my opinion) the 92x is now discontinued, and subaru continues to do its own thing. more reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-2X

When I said DSM i ment Mitsubishi, and 95% of the community knew what i ment. Also I had some idea that GM had some doings with mitusbishi, because the saab 92X had the same motor as the WRX, but i didnt know how much.

And like I said, my rational is more for DAily driving rather then racing on a track.

[hitcachi]

I believe mitsu's were no longer DSM's in 95, or 96. Not sure which one.

[boosted_K2]

reguardless im sick of so much misinformation going around on the board... and as far as DSMs being imported to japan this is the first ive heard of that, do you know what the production number was that was sent over there? or was it more of a private endevor?

[creamed_corn]

I nulled my vote.

Give me some real choices

[MaskedMan]

Are 3000GT's/GTO and Stealths considered DSM? or is it just an Eclipse, Talon, Lazer thing? What about the Starion, Conquest, and Daytona?

[lagos]

DSM = Diamond/Star Motors

this means that chrystler and mitsu teamed up to make the eclips/talon/laser. those are the only DSM's

This post has been edited by lagos: Sep 18, 2006 - 7:10 PM

[boosted_K2]

"The origins of Diamond-Star Motors can be traced back to 1970 when Chrysler Corporation took a 15% stake in Mitsubishi Motors, as part of MMC's strategy of exapansion through alliances with foreign partners. The US company began distributing Mitsubishis as Chrysler-, Dodge- and Plymouth-branded captive imports, a successful venture as the compacts met consumer demand for smaller and more fuel-efficient vehicles in the 1970s, filling a gap at the bottom of the Chrysler group's range.

By 1982, Chrysler was importing 110,000 Mitsubishis annually. However, a minor conflict was forming as the Japanese now wanted to sell directly through their own-branded dealerships. A voluntary import quota system was in place at this time, restricting the number of cars Japanese automakers could bring in to the US. As the Japanese company began to open its own branded dealerships to sell directly, every imported Cordia, Tredia and Starion sold by Mitsubishi had to be discounted from Chrysler's allocation."

"In order to circumvent this, the two partners officially incorporated Diamond-Star Motors in October 1985, and in April 1986 ground was broken on a 1.9 million square-foot (177,000m²) production facility in Normal, Illinois. The plant was completed in March 1988, with an annual capacity of 240,000 vehicles.

Initially, three models were produced at this facility. The Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon were smaller 2+2 sports cars on a new co-designed platform. Models subsequently produced during the next decade included the Mitsubishi Mirage / Eagle Summit, the Mitsubishi Galant, the Dodge Avenger / Chrysler Sebring, and the Dodge Stratus."

"Initially Diamond-Star Motors was a 50/50 joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi. However, in 1991 the Japanese company purchased its partner's equity stake, and thereafter the manufacture of Chrysler vehicles was on a contractual basis. Chrysler sold its equity stake in Mitsubishi in 1993, and Diamond-Star Motors was renamed to Mitsubishi Motors Manufacturing America (MMMA) on July 1, 1995.

Currently the plant produces vehicles using the American-developed Mitsubishi PS platform, including the current Endeavor, Galant and Eclipse. 1,900 people are employed as well as 1,000 robots. Expansion in 2003 means that it now occupies 2.4 million square-feet."


cliff notes for john and others:
1. the original "DSM"s could be considered the Cordia, Tredia and Starion, though "DSM" was not officially incorporated yet
2. DSM became incorporated in 85 and the DSM Plant opened in Illinios in 86. the official vehicles produced at the DSM Plant were; The Mitsubishi Eclipse, Plymouth Laser and Eagle Talon as well as Mitsubishi Mirage / Eagle Summit, the Mitsubishi Galant, the Dodge Avenger / Chrysler Sebring, and the Dodge Stratus. These could be considered "THE DSM VEHICLES" as they were the ones produced in the DSM plant.
3. "DSM" dissolved in 95 and the faucility was owned and operated exclusively by now "Mitsubishi Motors Manufacturing America"
4. The ex-DSM plant now produces the current model Endeavor, Galant and Eclipse.

[Mynzeyes]

You can't even spell "ignorant" correctly, and used the wrong form of "you're". Maybe you should end yourself. I'm much more useful to society. At least I can spell and use proper grammar.

[97sccelica]

i voted Evo, but i wouldnt get an MR.

i could go to south coast mitsu and pick up a new 2006 evo 9 for ~$28,500. in my book the evo beats out the STI because it is cheaper, handles better, looks better, and its faster and gains more power mod for mod.

i have driven a MS6. its ok. STI's and EVO's feel a lot faster. also from what i have heard they have cooling problems which lead to vastly inconsistant performance.

GM used to be the largest shareholder of subaru. they have since liquidated most of their subaru stock. toyota picked up a lot of the shares and now toyota is the biggest share holder.

[TomPoz]

Definitely Mitsu.
New Impreza's front bumper looks like Spanish Seat, it lost it's individual cut.
Mazda, well... I have never been into Mazdas. Too girly.

[saleeka]

reguardless im sick of so much misinformation going around on the board... and as far as DSMs being imported to japan this is the first ive heard of that, do you know what the production number was that was sent over there? or was it more of a private endevor?

I'll link you up to a russian website that has a decent amount of info on JDM market models in terms of chassis codes, trim levels, and engine data. From what I know about the Eclipse in Japan, all were left hand drive, and officially imported by Mitsubishi. First Gens were either the DOHC GS or the GSR 4 (like our GSX). Second gens were unique to japan in that they had no trim level but all had the Turbo 4G with 220 PS and FWD. The second gen was marketed above the FTO at this point, a kind of bridge between that car and the GTO. Both first and second gens have amber rear turn signals, and fender mounted side marker lights. Also, I've seen JDM sales brochures for the second and third generation eclipse spyders, but I have never been able to track down any solid information on them, so they might not have been imported via Mitsubishi Motors Japan... Thats the extend of what I personally know about the cars...

Japanese Eclipse Info

[boosted_K2]

ahh i read your post wrong. thats interesting... the reason i was skeptical is because japans policy on imported vehicles... basically they dont do it, this case is a bit odd.

[saleeka]

/\ ahh n/m.

This post has been edited by saleeka: Sep 19, 2006 - 1:40 PM

[hitcachi]

New Impreza's front bumper looks like Spanish Seat, it lost it's individual cut.

Its no more. Thank God.
http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384...4-21822,00.html

[Bitter]

mazda speed mazda6i

direct fuel injection > port fuel injection.

[Bitter]

reguardless im sick of so much misinformation going around on the board... and as far as DSMs being imported to japan this is the first ive heard of that, do you know what the production number was that was sent over there? or was it more of a private endevor?

I'll link you up to a russian website that has a decent amount of info on JDM market models in terms of chassis codes, trim levels, and engine data. From what I know about the Eclipse in Japan, all were left hand drive, and officially imported by Mitsubishi. First Gens were either the DOHC GS or the GSR 4 (like our GSX). Second gens were unique to japan in that they had no trim level but all had the Turbo 4G with 220 PS and FWD. The second gen was marketed above the FTO at this point, a kind of bridge between that car and the GTO. Both first and second gens have amber rear turn signals, and fender mounted side marker lights. Also, I've seen JDM sales brochures for the second and third generation eclipse spyders, but I have never been able to track down any solid information on them, so they might not have been imported via Mitsubishi Motors Japan... Thats the extend of what I personally know about the cars...

Japanese Eclipse Info

some 3rd gen eclipses were imported, I WAS AT THE FACTORY the day they were taking some PR shots for the Japanese release. they were taking over about 500 of them and coverting them to RHD and adding some shownogo mods to make them look pretty. they were planning on selling them way above MSRP because they would be the only 500 3rd gens in the country. who knows what really became of it, but the japanese guys snapping pics were drooling over some of the cars. i was talking to the MMNA japanese liasion, which is how i came to learn this, i think his name was Bob Ford, but i dont know if he still works for mitsu, they cut and hire pretty regularly.

[creamed_corn]

How could anyone on this board care about DSM's enough to carry on a debate this long.

This should've ended at "DSM's are gay" with everyone agreeing and the topic at hand carrying on.

[95sweetness]

How could anyone on this board care about DSM's enough to carry on a debate this long.

This should've ended at "DSM's are gay" with everyone agreeing and the topic at hand carrying on.

that is a verry ignorant post....he is asking which car to get..so we are putting our views into things and helping him decide which should be his next car...how bout you stay out of it and dont fill this section with that bs

[Bitter]

3rd gen was in no way a DSM

[creamed_corn]

How could anyone on this board care about DSM's enough to carry on a debate this long.

This should've ended at "DSM's are gay" with everyone agreeing and the topic at hand carrying on.

that is a verry ignorant post....he is asking which car to get..so we are putting our views into things and helping him decide which should be his next car...how bout you stay out of it and dont fill this section with that bs

Uh, no he's not. He's asking which one we would choose. Go re-read. That and I bet that there's only maybe a dozen people on this board that could afford any of those cars (much less insure them).

[sinner96ST]

Evo, simply because you don't see as many of them on the road as the STI's.

All this talk about price, modding, etc... doesn't matter to me, I see at least a *dozen* wrx's on the road for every 10 miles that I'm driving. This doesn't make them any less of a decent car, but I'd like to have something fairly unique & rare.

And yeah, stop arguing about DSM's & whatnot, the argument is pointless, unless you're planning on purchasing a Talon or an Eclipse.

[hitcachi]

And yeah, stop arguing about DSM's & whatnot, the argument is pointless, unless you're planning on purchasing a Talon or an Eclipse.

Sorry sinner, but this is directed not really at you, just some other people. The arguement is not pointless. There is some very good information being posted up about the importing of DSM's and some history of them. Those of us that actually have a passion for cars and it reaches beyond of the tiny, barley significant grasp of the 6gc, can apprecaite these things.

[boosted_K2]

granted this got off the original topic, but its much more relevent and USEFUL information that we have been bantering back and forth with when compared to "DSMs are gay" and the typical replies these type of threads recieve. i like this car because i have an irrational bias yadda yadda... i completely agree with hitcachi

[sinner96ST]

yeah i suppose the spread of information is good a good thing, but people should learn the difference between an argument and a heated debate. some people forget and usually wind up crossing the line.

i always try to keep it civil.

[saleeka]

I'm really supprised that considering how much more livable the 6 is, almost nobody has chosen it... I'd much rather have the Mazdaspeed if it were my only car- best balance of space, style, prestige, and speed imo... If it was strictly weekend toy, however, the Evo is pretty f'in hardcore...

[robdrummer]

you guys might be intrested in this. i would rather have a P2

-RTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0hDqlASKHc

This post has been edited by robdrummer: Sep 21, 2006 - 3:03 AM

[TomPoz]

you guys might be intrested in this. i would rather have a P2

-RTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0hDqlASKHc

Cool, but actually you can't buy one.

[robdrummer]

well not yet, prodive is looking for an independant company to manufacture and sell it.

-RTC

[devilsden97]

you guys might be intrested in this. i would rather have a P2

-RTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0hDqlASKHc

and at 40,000 pounds it puts at just over $60000, way above the other 3 cars.

[boosted_K2]

I'm really supprised that considering how much more livable the 6 is, almost nobody has chosen it... I'd much rather have the Mazdaspeed if it were my only car- best balance of space, style, prestige, and speed imo... If it was strictly weekend toy, however, the Evo is pretty f'in hardcore...

usually when people dream about buying a vehicle they dont dream practically or rationally... usually the thought is "well id just get this one and id keep my current car as a daily driver" so practicality is usually a moot point when you are dreaming the other thought is the STi and EVO are pretty practical rides the only negative is their harsh ride, most of us are used to extremely harsh rides with modified suspensions and such so it doesnt matter too much.

[Killswitch]

I's Choose and EVO Because of this

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/8AF7F42...3997DC125EC.htm

[Killswitch]

Then again if you watch the whole video you'll be disappointed

[celicast3sgte]

evo9 MR has by far the best response to tuning and building power. i roll with a 400whp evo9 (on stock turbo). and a 05' STi (just starting to mod). the evo will hook up in any condition and if you know how to drive. you can throw that awd into a corner slide sideways if u choose or hook up and jump out of the turns. its a drivers car for sure.