7afe to 7age?, Found a 4age 16v T-VIS from an MR2.. help! Options

[Tom_T20]

Hi! I have a '98 Celica AT200, and i'm searching for a camshaft kit, does anybody know where i can find it?

This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Jul 11, 2007 - 4:29 PM

[bindertch]

Are you just looking for OE replacements or performance? I don't think anyone has a production aftermarket cam but a lot of places might custom make one. This:
http://www.6gc.net/index.php?action=parts&itu=209
might be an option depending on what you are doing.

[Tom_T20]

Are you just looking for OE replacements or performance? I don't think anyone has a production aftermarket cam but a lot of places might custom make one. This:
http://www.6gc.net/index.php?action=parts&itu=209
might be an option depending on what you are doing.

I'm looking for a performance camshaft kit... but i don't know how to find it!

[Tom_T20]

My idea is to build an high performance engine, i want to replace interior parts (pistons, crankshaft, rods)and apply a turbo kit.
But i'm not sure that the engine will work fine with stock cams... what do u think about?

I think i'll use those components:

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/impo...pek-toyota.html scroll till #27
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/impo...pec_toyota.html

and this is the crankshaft:

http://www.rpmrons.com/toyota,cranks.html#1.8

[Bitter]

just use the stock crank and have it heat treated or cryo treated then balanced with the whole rotating assembly.

[Tom_T20]

just use the stock crank and have it heat treated or cryo treated then balanced with the whole rotating assembly.

Do you think that's possible to do?
And what about cams?

This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Oct 22, 2006 - 1:25 PM

[Bitter]

yes, i've never heard of anyone with a 7afe bending or breaking a crank, theyre pretty strong.

there may not be off the shelf 7afe cams, you'll probably have to get stock cams modified. just swap on a G head, you'd be better off with that.

[Tom_T20]

yes, i've never heard of anyone with a 7afe bending or breaking a crank, theyre pretty strong.

there may not be off the shelf 7afe cams, you'll probably have to get stock cams modified. just swap on a G head, you'd be better off with that.

I can't found the G 20v head here in Italy..
Can u send me one?

[Bitter]

looked on ebay? you dont need a 20 valve. any G head will be a stepup from the F. a big step.

[Tom_T20]

looked on ebay? you dont need a 20 valve. any G head will be a stepup from the F. a big step.

Like the head of 4age found in 5th gen celica ST-i? (1.6l)

[Bitter]

yes, that head would work. theres more than just the head you need tho, some electronics, a different timing belt, and a few other things. theres several how-to's around the internet.

[Tom_T20]

yes, that head would work. theres more than just the head you need tho, some electronics, a different timing belt, and a few other things. theres several how-to's around the internet.

Yes, i know.. but can't i keep the f head and cross 200-250hp with the components i listed?

[Bitter]

probably not, the F head wont flow enough air to do that i dont think.

[Tom_T20]

probably not, the F head wont flow enough air to do that i dont think.

I find out my head is different from the OEM F head... i'll post some pics of my engine

[Bitter]

you have tvis? the tvis intake ports end up being a little smaller than a non tvis intake ports on the F head. those 2 ports put together are smaller than the one large port on the non tvis F head.

[Tom_T20]

you have tvis? the tvis intake ports end up being a little smaller than a non tvis intake ports on the F head. those 2 ports put together are smaller than the one large port on the non tvis F head.

what's tvis? is it like VVT?

[playr158]

the F head can flow enough for 250.....

keep the F head and have a custom intake manifold built, along with a port and polish on the head that will always help....the crank is fine stock but cryo treating is always nice...i think pauter cut 7afe forged rod production so you'd want to contact someone to build you custom rods and pistons if your trying to go huge power....but stock rods that have been shot peened with 4age (or custom 7afe pistons) will hold up just fine...for around 200-250 (although they might not last really long...really long being like 70,000 miles)

if your going to do this i'd also look into at least honing the block if not potentially boring it out slightly to give you a nice clean wall..

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 23, 2006 - 12:11 PM

[Bitter]

no, tvis is a system where the intake has 2 runners per cylinder and 2 intake ports per cylinder. one port is closed till about 4000 rpm so that you have a torquier low end, then the 2nd port opens up and you can pull in more air for a good topend. it basically tries to smooth the powerband so that you have a good lowend but dont choke for air in the topend. it does nothing to your valves.

the F head can flow enough for 250.....

keep the F head and have a custom intake manifold built, along with a port and polish on the head that will always help....the crank is fine stock but cryo treating is always nice...i think pauter cut 7afe forged rod production so you'd want to contact someone to build you custom rods and pistons if your trying to go huge power....but stock rods that have been shot peened with 4age (or custom 7afe pistons) will hold up just fine...for around 200-250 (although they might not last really long...really long being like 70,000 miles)

but you'd have to be running a HUGE turbo to force enough air through, and then use a BIG intercooler to keep that high psi charge cool, and then you've got alot of lag trying to spin that thing up, you'll have a powerband like a supercharger! the G gead is a much better choice, especialy if he has the TVIS F head on his 7afe, those little TVIS ports just arent big enough to move enough air.

[playr158]

you really don't need a HUGE stupercharger with HUUUGE boostage or a HUUUUGE intercooler...
you just need an EFFFFFFECTIVE setup and know what your doing.

compression ratio, fuel, type of IC, and other factors play into it

and since when did a celica come with TVIS...yea pretty sure it never did...(6gc that is)

you really wouldn't need anything larger then a T3 s60 or a GT28rs...
and no GT28rs arn't crazy huge..we run them on 1.8 dubs all the time
a nice 9.0:1 comrpession ration, forged pistons and some other necessary goods on a decent turbo should yeild good results
remember with a higher CR say 9.0:1 neighborhood you can run less boost to achieve the same amount of power as you would say at 8.0:1 BUT you have to be able to saftly tune it there...

but yes a G head is a better head we all know this but you can't just make a blanket statement saying a 7afe can't flow enough to make 250hp....have you tried? have you failed?...yea you havn't done everything possible...if you had you would know its possible...
my point is simple...200-250hp is VERY doable with a not very crazy setup on a 7afe motor...but we all know a G head is better then an F head but also takes a considerable more amount of work/time/money to do as well...i'm mearly presesnting another option

but if we start to head to a G head is better and ect...well a 3sgte flows more...puts him at his power goal..and more then likely...cheaper as well


This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 23, 2006 - 12:48 PM

[Bitter]

ok, then show me a 200-250hp 7afe thats street driven and not a dyno/strip queen. i've never seen one!

JDM, asian, australia, and maybe russian markets got 7afe's with TVIS for some weird reason.

http://www.billzilla.org/starleteng.htm theres an aussie talking about the 2 F heads there.

[Tom_T20]

ok, then show me a 200-250hp 7afe thats street driven and not a dyno/strip queen. i've never seen one!

JDM, asian, australia, and maybe russian markets got 7afe's with TVIS for some weird reason.

http://www.billzilla.org/starleteng.htm theres an aussie talking about the 2 F heads there.

Here there are some pics of my F head...










can you tell me something about those pics?

This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Oct 23, 2006 - 1:30 PM

[Bitter]

it looks like a normal F head to me, but you have a better stock exhaust manifold than most, im assuming that is stock?

[playr158]

word learn something new everyday...thanks for the link bitter...

but show me any dyno/strip queen 7afe....thats like an oxymoron..and you can build a streetable 200-250hp 7afte that was my originial intentions for my particular project..and its very doable with some money on an F head...but 7afte is particularily reliable at those levels anyways

[Tom_T20]

it looks like a normal F head to me, but you have a better stock exhaust manifold than most, im assuming that is stock?

yes, it is...

[Bitter]

word learn something new everyday...thanks for the link bitter...

but show me any dyno/strip queen 7afe....thats like an oxymoron..and you can build a streetable 200-250hp 7afte that was my originial intentions for my particular project..and its very doable with some money on an F head...but 7afte is particularily reliable at those levels anyways

ok, so where is this magical 200-250hp 7afte?

it looks like a normal F head to me, but you have a better stock exhaust manifold than most, im assuming that is stock?

yes, it is...

thats good, thats a nice manifold. alot better than what comes with the 7afe in the US markets. infact it looks like what us US people buy from the aftermarket to fit on. i wonder if thats another difference between usdm and foreign 7afe's and contributes to the 7afe's outside the us being rated at 120-125hp and the us ones being rated at about 110.

[Tom_T20]

thats good, thats a nice manifold. alot better than what comes with the 7afe in the US markets. infact it looks like what us US people buy from the aftermarket to fit on. i wonder if thats another difference between usdm and foreign 7afe's and contributes to the 7afe's outside the us being rated at 120-125hp and the us ones being rated at about 110.

my 7afe is stock at 116hp

This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Jul 7, 2007 - 6:58 AM

[playr158]

word learn something new everyday...thanks for the link bitter...

but show me any dyno/strip queen 7afe....thats like an oxymoron..and you can build a streetable 200-250hp 7afte that was my originial intentions for my particular project..and its very doable with some money on an F head...but 7afte is particularily reliable at those levels anyways

ok, so where is this magical 200-250hp 7afte?

read closer..."original" the 7afte was insignificant for my plans so i opted for a different motor...although i still believe in ability to create a 200-250whp 7afte...i know Nik was around the 180s or so?

7afte can't handle the stress and demands that i required for my motor...

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 23, 2006 - 2:47 PM

[Bitter]

exactly, you wised up and changed your plans. the 7a bottom end is pretty strong, the crank is plenty tough. the head, pistons, and rods are its weak points. theres 7age's NA making 200hp! 7agze's in rwd doing near 200whp, thats with a 20-25% driveline loss making those 7agzes pushing 240-260 crank hp. but thats with ALOT of work and money into them

[playr158]

exactly, you wised up and changed your plans. the 7a bottom end is pretty strong, the crank is plenty tough. the head, pistons, and rods are its weak points. theres 7age's NA making 200hp! 7agze's in rwd doing near 200whp, thats with a 20-25% driveline loss making those 7agzes pushing 240-260 crank hp. but thats with ALOT of work and money into them

no i switch the type of racing my car will be doing a 200-250whp 7afte is perfectly fine if all you want to do is drag or drive around the streets...but your missing my point here...i'm not saying they arn't the weak points...i had the parts to put together a 200+hp 7afte motor (on a T3 s60 turbo....which isn't huge)...my point is it can be done IF you didn't want to swap heads....where as your statements so far saying that it CAN"T be done...which is in accurate

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 23, 2006 - 3:23 PM

[Bitter]

i CAN make a moped go 100, is it feasible?

[netrata]

Isn't there someone on this forum that runs a boosted 7afe? I remember he dynoed it, but I forgot the hp number he got. Anyways, IMO, don't invest into the 7afe,get a 4agze and boost that. But if you still think about keeping the 7afe and working with that, then get a 16v 4age head since it is much easier to find parts for the 16v. And I believe Nik did the 7afe block with 16v 4age head to make the 7age hybrid engine. You should contact him if it gives any interest to you.

This post has been edited by netrata: Oct 23, 2006 - 4:34 PM

[trd94]

i have a 7afte and i plan on getting 200-250 hp with a f head i have it p&p already and i am running 9.5 psi on a t3-t4 57 trim i know i have not broke the 200+ hp yet but i dont have my 370cc injectors in yet or my emanage installed and tuned yet , i also have a water injection system i am tuning in along with a multi port nitorus system i will be running with a 35 shot at first , i know the pistons and rods are weak so i am going with the 4a pistons and i am trying to get some rods made at where i work , along with micro grooved bearings , i dont have a dyno sheet right know but i am working on the build through the winter and hopfully i will dyno around march or april ,and i will post the results .i know i should just put on the g head and i would get more hp but i want to see what a nice built 7afe can do ,just to be differant

[Tom_T20]

i have a 7afte and i plan on getting 200-250 hp with a f head i have it p&p already and i am running 9.5 psi on a t3-t4 57 trim i know i have not broke the 200+ hp yet but i dont have my 370cc injectors in yet or my emanage installed and tuned yet , i also have a water injection system i am tuning in along with a multi port nitorus system i will be running with a 35 shot at first , i know the pistons and rods are weak so i am going with the 4a pistons and i am trying to get some rods made at where i work , along with micro grooved bearings , i dont have a dyno sheet right know but i am working on the build through the winter and hopfully i will dyno around march or april ,and i will post the results .i know i should just put on the g head and i would get more hp but i want to see what a nice built 7afe can do ,just to be differant

Do you have boost pressure at 9.5 psi with stock pistons and rods?

[playr158]

a T3/T4 57 trim is too big for a 7afe...

[trd94]

a T3/T4 57 trim is too big for a 7afe...

i dont have any problem with it i actually spool faster than my super 60 trim i had , the full specs are turbine is a 63, and the compressor is a 55, witch from what i was told makes it a 57 trim, i get boost at 2200rpm and full boost at 4700 rpm, my 60 trim would only give me boost at 2700rpm and full boost at 5200rpm , so i think the t3 -t4 is a little better than the t3 i had

[trd94]

i have a 7afte and i plan on getting 200-250 hp with a f head i have it p&p already and i am running 9.5 psi on a t3-t4 57 trim i know i have not broke the 200+ hp yet but i dont have my 370cc injectors in yet or my emanage installed and tuned yet , i also have a water injection system i am tuning in along with a multi port nitorus system i will be running with a 35 shot at first , i know the pistons and rods are weak so i am going with the 4a pistons and i am trying to get some rods made at where i work , along with micro grooved bearings , i dont have a dyno sheet right know but i am working on the build through the winter and hopfully i will dyno around march or april ,and i will post the results .i know i should just put on the g head and i would get more hp but i want to see what a nice built 7afe can do ,just to be differant

Do you have boost pressure at 9.5 psi with stock pistons and rods?

yes that is on a stock bottom end the car only had 75000 mi on it when i got it it has close to 90000 now with over have being boosted , it handles the boost good and the water injection kit helps with detination, i just need something to help with timing

[playr158]

full boost at 4700 rpm

yea full boost by 4700 when your red line is like 6?
thats "lag" 9psi that late wowz....my 1.8T is getting 17psi by 3,000

your turbo just a little big lols, but hey if you like it thats all that matters! rock on

[trd94]

well thanks for the reply

[Tom_T20]

I found a 4age from a MR2, is there an "how-to" swap the G head on 7afe block?


This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Jul 6, 2007 - 12:00 PM

[Culpable04]

There is no actual How to.. as many thing can change depending n what 4AGE you use, but read this Nik"s project and it may give you an idea of what to do. For a more detailed info about 7AGE go to some corrola forums. there is one with excellent info about this, but I can't recall the web address right now.

[Tom_T20]

why are 4age and 7afe head gaskets different?

[Tom_T20]

4AGE:


7AFE:


I'm going to use a 4AGE 16v found in an MR2 MK I
(1985 - 1989), smallport i think...

[REDDRAGONCELI]

hey try this out they have a setup for the 7afe www.gude.com whole head and internals including high performance cams u can get it assembled for about $1250 this place is out of Florida but give them a call and see what they can do for u i think they even give u a bigger throttle body

[Tom_T20]

i live in italy.... florida is too far....

[normality78]

im running 7AFTE with 220hp on engine. but i do not know am i fit to say FE is still good for street daily driving.

[Tom_T20]

ok, my 4AGE has TVIS... which manifold will i have to use?

This post has been edited by Tom_T20: Jul 11, 2007 - 12:56 PM

[trd94]

im running 7AFTE with 220hp on engine. but i do not know am i fit to say FE is still good for street daily driving.

220hp on a 7afte, what psi are you running and what type of management for the fuel and timming? i hit 207 with 94 pump gas and a safc, timming retarded 4 degrees, and 14psi on a t3-t4.

[Culpable04]

im running 7AFTE with 220hp on engine. but i do not know am i fit to say FE is still good for street daily driving.

220hp on a 7afte, what psi are you running and what type of management for the fuel and timming? i hit 207 with 94 pump gas and a safc, timming retarded 4 degrees, and 14psi on a t3-t4.

you and him may be around the same power out put, not that he said 220 on engine, and I'm almost sure your HPs are measure at the wheels right ?


if yours are measure on engine, then I was wrong

[Tom_T20]

will this work on a 7age/7agte setup?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MEGASQUIRT-...sspagenameZWDVW

[Tom_T20]

i need a list of all what i need to do my 7agte project.
thanks to all

[Tom_T20]

what about an ITB from a 20v 4age?

[Tom_T20]

nobody can help me?

[Culpable04]

there is no step by step how to.. on this. you have to do a lot of research and collect all the info you need.

there are a few discussions about that hybrid engine, read thru them and see what applies to your set-up. also try some other sites related to corollas, levin and old MR2s. is all about the research.

[trd94]

im running 7AFTE with 220hp on engine. but i do not know am i fit to say FE is still good for street daily driving.

220hp on a 7afte, what psi are you running and what type of management for the fuel and timming? i hit 207 with 94 pump gas and a safc, timming retarded 4 degrees, and 14psi on a t3-t4.

you and him may be around the same power out put, not that he said 220 on engine, and I'm almost sure your HPs are measure at the wheels right ?


if yours are measure on engine, then I was wrong

mine was at the wheel, my bad i did not see where he said on motor

[Tom_T20]

i looked around, and i'll do that on a single step

i'm planning to eliminate t-vis and egr, and to use an ITB from a 20v 4age... is that possible?

[Tom_T20]

i have some doubts...

then.... how to fit the alternator and the air conditioner pump? they have differnt locations on the two engines!!

the alternator is in the rear of the 4age, and it have no air conditioner, 7afe has also a "steering oil pump".. i'll take pics, but i need some help!

thanks

[nik]

i have some doubts...

then.... how to fit the alternator and the air conditioner pump? they have differnt locations on the two engines!!

the alternator is in the rear of the 4age, and it have no air conditioner, 7afe has also a "steering oil pump".. i'll take pics, but i need some help!

thanks

go check out my build thread on my 7agte

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...1831&st=240

[Kwanza26]

why are 4age and 7afe head gaskets different?

The gaskets are different because the water ports and the way the engine is fed coolant is different. The water jackets on the block will line up however, but the difference is in the head, the 7AFE and 4AG 20V's won't that big rear jacket (theirs is external). You can run any intake set-up from any 4AG you want... the most difficult being ITBs and the least being a stock 4AG intake manifold. The best head, IMO, is a 20V head. The least desired, a bigport (TVIS) 4AG head.