7-AFE Custom 4-1 Headers, UPDATE WITH DYNO CHARTS!! 56K Warning Options

[94celicadude]

ok well here goes;

My dad and i have been wanting a correct 4-1 header for our 7-afe for a long time, we have finally gotten around to making one. We used the plate that attaches to the engine from a Aerospeed header, so yes that was salvaged for parts. Then we had a shop bend up some pipes, all equal length. To be precise they are 37" long and they are calculated to be the length for the best performance gain at peak power, so then it falls right back into the peak torque and off you go again. So anyways, after about 3 weeks of work here is the result. All the welding except for the tacks in the before pictures was done by me, and the wrapping of the system was done by my father and I. The collector was purchased from Pegasus Motorsports, and the rest of the pieces were purchased or salvaged from our old 4-2-1 headers. Sorry for the number of pictures but i figured people would like to see it in detail from many angles. I am hopefully going to finish installing it on mthe car this weekend, so if i get a hold of a camera with sound ill try to take a sound clip of it with just the headers, cuse i know it sounded badass before it was welded. ENJOY!!!!!








This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Aug 29, 2007 - 7:02 PM

[94celicadude]

i will also post a dyno sheet once the car is all back together and we get it to the dyno.

[Bitter]

it looks nice, like Rippmods longtube for the mitsu 4g64 that my friend has. that sucks that you had to dent in that one runner to clear the alternator...and how are you going to change the oil without dropping the header?

[n1ckz0r]

a good question that i am now facing.

[Bitter]

a good question that i am now facing.

with your ebay header (that is you right?) its no harder than with the stock manifold. theres plenty of room around the filter to get at it from the top with your left hand and a good glove. i use the cloth glove with a rubber hand area to grip at it, they work great and are only about $2 a pair.

[94celicadude]

we had it bent so the oil filter will just about sneak out with the headers on, off course once the car is cold too, but if that doesnt work then i will fit the remote oil filter kit that i have onto the engine. That will all be determined once i put it on this weekend. And yea it does suck that the far right runner had to be have a flat spot on it, but hey its better than any of those ebay headers you can get. Thx for the comments guys.

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Oct 28, 2006 - 1:35 AM

[Bitter]

well you could have just thrown a 10-15 degree bend and cleared everything, its a shame those are crushbends tho. it'd be nice if you made a 2nd version with mandrel bend stainless steel.

honestly, the ebay header isnt bad at all, it looks like you have one on your car (in the signature) infact! its the same layout as stock 4age and 7afe headers are in other countries. same cylinder matching and same runner length, just stainless steel. same as the obx, megan, and several other 'brands', just the ebay ones cost $100 instead of $300. with my ebay header i have a NICE pull above 3500 rpm, 4000 rpm is great, and it pulls the whole way till it shifts, then i'm back around 4000 rpm with more pull once again.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Oct 28, 2006 - 1:43 AM

[ExSane]

well you could have just thrown a 10-15 degree bend and cleared everything, its a shame those are crushbends tho. it'd be nice if you made a 2nd version with mandrel bend stainless steel.

honestly, the ebay header isnt bad at all, it looks like you have one on your car (in the signature) infact! its the same layout as stock 4age and 7afe headers are in other countries. same cylinder matching and same runner length, just stainless steel. same as the obx, megan, and several other 'brands', just the ebay ones cost $100 instead of $300. with my ebay header i have a NICE pull above 3500 rpm, 4000 rpm is great, and it pulls the whole way till it shifts, then i'm back around 4000 rpm with more pull once again.

Tiag tiag los? I didn't know a header makes that much of a difference. I was gonna stick with stock for a while but then again there is that major restriction on exhaust flow. Just better throttle response? How about the gains? Do you feel any improvement in power besides response? Also, I was gonna go after 4-1 headers instead of 4-2-1 becuz of the exhaust flows better.

[pure_dx]

Tiag tiag los?

what nationality are you?

i have a 4-2-1 header, i wouldn't put a 4-1 header on our fe heads, 94celicadude, tell us how it goes

This post has been edited by pure_dx: Oct 30, 2006 - 1:14 PM

[Alex-UKSC]

looks ace, mine needs some heat wrap as the bay get sooooo hot

[ExSane]

Tiag tiag los?

what nationality are you?

I'm american.

[94celicadude]

Tiag tiag los?

what nationality are you?

i have a 4-2-1 header, i wouldn't put a 4-1 header on our fe heads, 94celicadude, tell us how it goes

yea sure will, ill post a dyno sheet of the numbers before w/the ebay headers and then with this one. dont know exactly when ill get it to the dyno, but i will post as soon as i have results, thanks again for comments.

[6gcSTVT]

Since you made a damn good looking header any interest in making more?

[94celicadude]

Since you made a damn good looking header any interest in making more?

well, i wouldnt mind, but you do have to realize that there is a LOT of time that went into this, so unless i set off to produce about 50 of these with mandrel bent stainless steel, it would be a rather expensive price because of all the time i have to personally put inot it. If you are really interested PM me and we can talk.

[ExSane]

OMG. I didn't recognize that one of the piping is bent in until I looked at this closer. It's bent becuz of the alternator? The alternator couldn't be that far over. I hope the results turn out great. I would love to mass produce my own designs and such but unfortunately I don't have the tools to do so.

[94celicadude]

OMG. I didn't recognize that one of the piping is bent in until I looked at this closer. It's bent becuz of the alternator? The alternator couldn't be that far over. I hope the results turn out great. I would love to mass produce my own designs and such but unfortunately I don't have the tools to do so.

well it is bent because of the A/C compressor, and i would have gotten rid of it but the car is a dd, so then i wouldnt have A/C in the summer, and MO heat is fing horrible , so thats why it had to stay on and the pipe had to be bent slightly. BTW just got the whole system can car back together, it sounds wicked and it also pulls a lot harder from 4-5500K rmp, thats what we were going for. For a 7-afe w/213k original miles, this little thing moves!...will update with some pics soon as i can.

[pure_dx]

^some dyno sheets too if ya dont mind

[94celicadude]

will put them up as soon as i get them.

[94celicadude]

sorry to bring this one back from the dead, but i thought id share a couple pics of the finished product. Its really dirty so please excuse that, but apart from that, the car runs great, and i can still do an oil change, i think i have about 1/32 of an inch left once the filter is unscrewed fully, but hell i dont need to dismantle the entire car just to do an oil change. The picture of the bottom side shows some of the wrap has been ripped...its because it does stick out below the crossmember a little bit, and also the car is lowered. Hope you enjoy, let me know what you all think.







This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Aug 29, 2007 - 7:04 PM

[Bitter]

what kind of gains does the butt dyno show?

[94celicadude]

what kind of gains does the butt dyno show?

well since i drive the car almost everyday, my butt dyno say possible about 5-9hp, maybe more but i am being conservative, so more than likely a little more than that, but only the real dyno will tell. I will post those results once i get them.

[playr158]

very cool looking and nice work, congrats!

btw, Bitter those are not crush bends...they appear to be Compression bends

crush bends create waves, his are smooth

[94celicadude]

very cool looking and nice work, congrats!

btw, Bitter those are not crush bends...they appear to be Compression bends

crush bends create waves, his are smooth

yes, they are compression bends, and thank you for the compliments.

[Batman722]

looks good installed. I would just be concerned about it hanging so low, other than that, I'm impressed. With my header I can feel the diff on the low RPMs and really feel the diff up in the higher RPMs

[slow94st]

dude that is the nicest header i have ever seen, the question i have for u is what size pipe is the actual header and what size collector and what size exhaust.

[94celicadude]

dude that is the nicest header i have ever seen, the question i have for u is what size pipe is the actual header and what size collector and what size exhaust.

the collector is from pegasus motorsports and it is for a 1.6L formula ford, the header tubes are 1.5" with compression bends. thanks for the positive feedback everybody.

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Jan 21, 2007 - 9:54 PM

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

Anyone else not able to view the pics?? im at work so that might have something to do with it... :\

[94celicadude]

well here comes the thread from the dead, but just thought id let you all know that im going to dyno and tune tom. i have installed an S-AFCII and i am going to do a base run to see just how much HP the headers alone gave me, then tune and see how much i can squeeze out of a 220k engine. Wish me luck, i will post dyno charts as soon as i can.

[netrata]

Nice Let us know how it turns out.

[94celicadude]

Well, went to the dyno and got the car tuned, didnt get the expected results that we tought we would, but we did get some definite improvements. If you know what you are looking for in a dyno chart or in a power and torque curve, you can notice that the before tuning lines are very wavy and have several bumps and dips in them, but after tuning the lines are extremely smooth and are genrally above the original graph. Sorry if this is all confusing.



*CLIFF NOTES* Made 5 HP and about 5 ft-lbs of torque, from the headers alone, then tuning helped smooth the powerband. MUST REMEMBER THAT ENGINE HAS 216K MILES ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before Headers and Tuning


After Headers (Blue Line) and After Tuning (Red Line)


Sorry the pics arent the best, but let me know what you all think.

This post has been edited by 94celicadude: Feb 21, 2007 - 9:04 PM

[Batman722]

so just so we are clear...you got 6 more hp and no additional torque, correct ?

[dagreat1]

hmm wanna make another set?

[94celicadude]

so just so we are clear...you got 6 more hp and no additional torque, correct ?

no torque is kind of hard to read on the graphs cuse my scanner sucks, but actually i made about the same gain in HP as i did in torque, and i was suprised but the engine puts out more torque than it does power, 110 ft-lbs compared to 99HP, which is not typically the way numbers go, especially for imports they "tend" to be higher power than torque. Just my experience and knowledge though.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

That's not bad. Those are some smooth lines. How is response and what not with yours? I never really noticed that much of a difference in peak hp, just smoother and overall more hp with mine. Mine aren't as long as yours, but they do have the heat rap.

[Rayme]

REALLY nice header!.. but This sadly proves that headers are really not worth the effort on FE heads...but your butt dyno thought you gained 9+ hp..its all about how the car feels in the end no?

This post has been edited by Rayme: Feb 22, 2007 - 12:01 AM

[94celicadude]

thxs for positive comments guys, but dyno really shows the smoothness in the power curve, before tuning we noticed a definite bump in power at about 3700, u can even see it in the graph, and now its just more power, sooner in the powerband, and it stays contantly smooth. Also with the 9lb. lightweight flywheel, its amazing how i just cant get used to having to shift as fast as i need to, it just really goes all the way to fuel cut without a feeling of significant power loss. Once again, thx for + feedback. The engine is getting a rebuild with lots of head flwoing goodies and such hoepfully before too long, trying to get it done before auto-x season start in april. Wish me luck once again.
Matt

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

thxs for positive comments guys, but dyno really shows the smoothness in the power curve, before tuning we noticed a definite bump in power at about 3700, u can even see it in the graph, and now its just more power, sooner in the powerband, and it stays contantly smooth. Also with the 9lb. lightweight flywheel, its amazing how i just cant get used to having to shift as fast as i need to, it just really goes all the way to fuel cut without a feeling of significant power loss. Once again, thx for + feedback. The engine is getting a rebuild with lots of head flwoing goodies and such hoepfully before too long, trying to get it done before auto-x season start in april. Wish me luck once again.
Matt

I had a lightwieght flywheel in my GT, and then I broke it when I missed a shift. It sure is a lot of fun, but I didn't notice that much loss when I went back to stock weight wheel. With those mods, you are talking about an SM car. Maybe not though. I just checked the rules in 06 and it says, "Emission legal modifications to Engine management system, either electronic or mehanical, but not both," is okay for STS classes. I'll have to figure out if this includes S-AFC. It would be cheaper to get a cam gear to try and advance timing though, might have about equal gains.

[Bitter]

the ebay header seems to wakeup around 3000RPM and pull well till redline, my powerband feels like its a little weaker below 2500 rpm and much stronger above it.

actually i was goofing around and accidently bounced off the rev limit in 2nd gear tonight, before the ebay header i'd feel the power dipoff around 5700-6000RPM and know to shift then. Now i dont feel it dropoff at all, infact it really feels like it could go another 500RPM.

This post has been edited by Bitter: Feb 23, 2007 - 12:41 AM

[94celicadude]

thxs for positive comments guys, but dyno really shows the smoothness in the power curve, before tuning we noticed a definite bump in power at about 3700, u can even see it in the graph, and now its just more power, sooner in the powerband, and it stays contantly smooth. Also with the 9lb. lightweight flywheel, its amazing how i just cant get used to having to shift as fast as i need to, it just really goes all the way to fuel cut without a feeling of significant power loss. Once again, thx for + feedback. The engine is getting a rebuild with lots of head flwoing goodies and such hoepfully before too long, trying to get it done before auto-x season start in april. Wish me luck once again.
Matt

I had a lightwieght flywheel in my GT, and then I broke it when I missed a shift. It sure is a lot of fun, but I didn't notice that much loss when I went back to stock weight wheel. With those mods, you are talking about an SM car. Maybe not though. I just checked the rules in 06 and it says, "Emission legal modifications to Engine management system, either electronic or mehanical, but not both," is okay for STS classes. I'll have to figure out if this includes S-AFC. It would be cheaper to get a cam gear to try and advance timing though, might have about equal gains.

actually if u look in the FSP rules and guidelines, youll notice that the 94-99 celicas actually fall in that class, and with the specs on what is allowed, my car fits perfectly, and yea for STS, i already got disqualified once this past season cuse i had clutch and lightweight flywheel, so i had to finish the season with my STS legal GT. Still took second overall, so im happy either way.