cornering Options

[beno]

Just a quick question

Does a fwd car have better cornering than a rwd car?
Not including drifting


Thanks

[Supersprynt]

Its a matter of oversteer vs. understeer and how each car handles it. I feel more confident entering a corner at higher speeds in a fwd car rather than a rwd car.

[saleeka]

/\ +1. There is way too much circumstance involved to give an easy answer, but a great example to look towards a pro FWD opinion is in the WRC in the late 90's when FWD "Kit car" 306 Maxi's, Megane Maxis, and Xsara's with less powerful engines were easily equal or better than the Group A Evo's, Corollas, Impreza's and the like they competed against in technical tarmac events (Corsica, for example)...

[Akimbo]

It's about suspensions too. Me personally, I'd rather have a rear-wheel drive to accelerate out of turns better.

[RedSunCelica]

depending on how your suspension is set up it can handle the corners like a champ. its all about playing with the camber/toe/caster/height and most importantly sticky tires.

[Kwanza26]

typically speaking... FWD cars can enter a corner faster because of inherit understeer during entry... but the same understeer also limits acceleration out of the corner. A rwd car on the other hand is almost opposite... because of snap oversteer, corner entry speed can't be too fast... but that oversteer allows you to accelerate through a corner. On a short track with tight corners, RWD is a bit better. On a circuit track, it's a toss up.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

typically speaking... FWD cars can enter a corner faster because of inherit understeer during entry... but the same understeer also limits acceleration out of the corner. A rwd car on the other hand is almost opposite... because of snap oversteer, corner entry speed can't be too fast... but that oversteer allows you to accelerate through a corner. On a short track with tight corners, RWD is a bit better. On a circuit track, it's a toss up.

Yeah, but on a really small autocross type track, the FWD can be better. This is only because you can chop almost all wieght from the rear and just fling it around. The little cars like the Mini's are a good example of this. It has to be super tight, and the car has to be set up for it to work that way though. I like them both, but the close together the front and rear wheels are, the happier I am.

[Valo666]

i say it depends on the suspention, tires and driver. I know guys who can drive bone stock RWD cars better than a modified FWD car on a track, and i know guys who can smoke any rwd cars with a bone stock fwd. I say its all the driver, suspention and tires.

[Kwanza26]

Yeah, but on a really small autocross type track, the FWD can be better. This is only because you can chop almost all wieght from the rear and just fling it around. The little cars like the Mini's are a good example of this. It has to be super tight, and the car has to be set up for it to work that way though. I like them both, but the close together the front and rear wheels are, the happier I am.

Ahem... have you raced tight tracks before? If not... I suggest you stop right there. BTW... the reason the Mini does well is because of its wheelbase... but it still can't touch a stock Miata.

i say it depends on the suspention, tires and driver. I know guys who can drive bone stock RWD cars better than a modified FWD car on a track, and i know guys who can smoke any rwd cars with a bone stock fwd. I say its all the driver, suspention and tires.

True... but i'm gonna assume everything is on equal grounds here besides the drivetrain layout.

[creis]

my personal opinion is this, rwd cars are harder (not nessisarily slower) because (unless really underpowered) the back end will swing hard and you have to counter steer to make up for the back end trying to over take the front, fwd cars that i've seen and when racing my celica are much easyer but have to go slower into the turn but can pull hard out of it, It seems that since they are quite a bit unbalanced (weight front to back) they cant turn sharp at speed the wheels wash out and slide straght, but once in the turn you can pull hard and not have much issue, plus if you do swing the back end around just punch the gas and line up the wheel, it will straighten out. now awd cars are compleatly diff, they hold the advantage of both in that there weight (front to rear) tends to be more ballanced and you can pull hard thought the corner without breaking the back loose.

(asuming that all things are equal, susp, tires ext.)

the shorter the wheelbase (the smaller the car) the more its going to take to break the back end loose, thus you can push it harder, mini's and miatas are great examples, however ( i race scca) its kinda weird because whiles they kick my a$$ they cant take the 90's 944's idk what it is about em there not much diff from a celica (shape/weight etc.) but the onces I see kill. and of corse the 914's are always good.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Yeah, but on a really small autocross type track, the FWD can be better. This is only because you can chop almost all wieght from the rear and just fling it around. The little cars like the Mini's are a good example of this. It has to be super tight, and the car has to be set up for it to work that way though. I like them both, but the close together the front and rear wheels are, the happier I am.

Ahem... have you raced tight tracks before? If not... I suggest you stop right there. BTW... the reason the Mini does well is because of its wheelbase... but it still can't touch a stock Miata.

Ahem... I have raced very tight tracks before. Come on man, you are a racer, you know. You just can't argue that. My point is that RWD and FWD are driver dependent except on small tracks. But, this could be because only small cars are made in FWD, or at least most. You said it yourself with the comment on the intery speed of each car. This could be my preference as well though. I like FWD cars. Either way, there is no need to assume things, or be so damn rude about it. Knock it off.

[Kwanza26]

Ahem... I have raced very tight tracks before. Come on man, you are a racer, you know. You just can't argue that. My point is that RWD and FWD are driver dependent except on small tracks. But, this could be because only small cars are made in FWD, or at least most. You said it yourself with the comment on the intery speed of each car. This could be my preference as well though. I like FWD cars. Either way, there is no need to assume things, or be so damn rude about it. Knock it off.

I already said we should all assume suspension set-ups, drivers, power, etc... are all equal. Only difference is drivetrain layout. I have a video example... but I gotta cut it down to size. Shows the handling characteristics of MR, FR, FF, and AWD (Elise, Miata, RSX-R, EVO MR respectively). I'll try to post this tomorrow when I get my video programs working...

and... I sound rude sometimes cause I get tired of explaining the same stuff again and again...

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Ahem... I have raced very tight tracks before. Come on man, you are a racer, you know. You just can't argue that. My point is that RWD and FWD are driver dependent except on small tracks. But, this could be because only small cars are made in FWD, or at least most. You said it yourself with the comment on the intery speed of each car. This could be my preference as well though. I like FWD cars. Either way, there is no need to assume things, or be so damn rude about it. Knock it off.

I already said we should all assume suspension set-ups, drivers, power, etc... are all equal. Only difference is drivetrain layout. I have a video example... but I gotta cut it down to size. Shows the handling characteristics of MR, FR, FF, and AWD (Elise, Miata, RSX-R, EVO MR respectively). I'll try to post this tomorrow when I get my video programs working...

and... I sound rude sometimes cause I get tired of explaining the same stuff again and again...

I know you get frustrated. You know a lot, and it's hard to get people to lisson sometimes. That would be cool to see that video.

[Kwanza26]

Video is Up:

http://www.immorthao.com/videos/

NOTE: Miata is the 178hp Turbo version (2400 pounds). Elise is 190hp (~2000 pounds). RSX type-R (Integra Type-R) ~220hp (2600 pounds). Lancer Evo MR 286hp (3285 pounds). All cars are fairly even power to weight ratio-wise... except for maybe the Elise. Japan specs might be slightly different... but not far off. Video shows the overwhelming difference between more stable cars (FF/AWD) at low speed tight corners versus less stable cars (MR/FR). The first runs are pretty even because corners aren't very continous (slalom into a roundabout) but when they add a continous corner... the RWD advantage shows.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

^^I can't get it to open.

[Kwanza26]

^^I can't get it to open.

click on link... then right-click save as. Just a basic MEPG... should play in either windows media player or quicktime.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Pretty good video. The only thing I thought really useful to this discussion was the point were it shows all 4 going through the turns. I was surprised to see the WRX out front. I think the Miata could have done better if driven right. He keep getting the back loose on that thing. Yeah, it looks cool and it's fun, but it doesn't make you go anyfaster. That is unless your turboed and you need to keep the thing spooled up. I want to see more of these videos. Why can't American's do any good things like that? Every time I see a good car review anymore it's Topgear or some of those Japanese guys. I don't know the name of the show, but it's always the same, and never in English.