check out this exhaust manifold, GT35R powered alltrac by speed-source Options

[jgreening]

Car porn for you perusal:

[shin]

dammmmmmmmmmnn.. i just wet my pants

[doGGy]

Totaly different solution It looks really really nice!

BTW: On ebay there is a Apexi 3SGTE Header for sale floating around long time already - for some reasonable $ - some one should check it out!

[x_itchy_b_x]

same car i think. very original idea. i have a friend who wanted to do this on his sentra.
not a bad idea at all.

[snapshotgt]

I heard the large amount of money this guy paid.. insane.

edit: Looks sweet though

This post has been edited by snapshotgt: Jan 5, 2007 - 12:37 PM

[vg30dett93]

This ones by FULL-RACE.COM it says it will fit fwd 3rd 3sgte

[Punisher]

Ya that AT has a 3rd gen in her... that is the only reason that setup works.. because of the AFM.. however.. standalone or what not and get rid of AFM and you're in business.. very very nice turbo setup indeed.. I don't know how practical for every day street though..

That apexi on ebay is pretty damn good.. See how the runners are setup to compliment exhaust pulses? 1-4 and 2-3...

This post has been edited by Punisher: Jan 6, 2007 - 1:06 AM

[Gary]

Ya that AT has a 3rd gen in her... that is the only reason that setup works.. because of the AFM.. however.. standalone or what not and get rid of AFM and you're in business.. very very nice turbo setup indeed.. I don't know how practical for every day street though..

That apexi on ebay is pretty damn good.. See how the runners are setup to compliment exhaust pulses? 1-4 and 2-3...

Nope. that car has 2nd gen engine.
Look at the oil filter. The 3rd gen has filter at the bottom.
This is Bill's old ST185 and was sold to Jonstew
He has Speedsource changed the manifold/turbo setup.

[NuclearHappineS]

go to honda-tech and do a search for 'sidewinder' manifold... nothing new...

[hitcachi]

I never really seen anything quite like that before. Sorry us toyota guys arent as l337 as those sweet honda tech guys.

[playr158]

meh, all those pipes do is act as a radiator loosing thermal energy and slowing spool......shorter runners

[jgreening]

I'm sure you know better than the craftsman that created that masterpiece Dan.

[lagos]

looks like they do really high quality work.

they probably had to mount it like that, because the 5th gen has almost no room between the turbo and the radiator fans. it shouldnt cause any spool issues. ever see how far from the manifold subaru mounts their turbos?

[94_st_hatchback]

if we use that in a 6th gen., wouldn't the wg hit the radiator at that position??

[presure2]

if we use that in a 6th gen., wouldn't the wg hit the radiator at that position??

if it fits the 5th gen it should fit the 6gc as well.

[Punisher]

That full race manifold will work fine.. that is how i have my wastegate setup...

As for that being a 2nd gen motor.. maybe the block is.. but that is an 8bolt head...

[MaskedMan]

How come in the first pic his valve cover (and maybe entire engine) is from an ST185, but in the 2nd pic, it looks like it's from an MR2?

[Gary]

That full race manifold will work fine.. that is how i have my wastegate setup...

As for that being a 2nd gen motor.. maybe the block is.. but that is an 8bolt head...

Trust me, it's 2nd gen block AND head.
It is a 93 engine.
That is 9 bolt head, just like mine.
On 3rd gen head, those two studs are vertically aligned.

Like this one.


BTW, he changed the valve cover in the later setup.

[Punisher]

That full race manifold will work fine.. that is how i have my wastegate setup...

As for that being a 2nd gen motor.. maybe the block is.. but that is an 8bolt head...

Trust me, it's 2nd gen block AND head.
It is a 93 engine.
That is 9 bolt head, just like mine.
On 3rd gen head, those two studs are vertically aligned.

Like this one.


BTW, he changed the valve cover in the later setup.

Interesting.. I thought it was a 2nd gen from other things but when I saw that manifold I thought 3rd gen..

[playr158]

I'm sure you know better than the craftsman that created that masterpiece Dan.

response:

Paying for less performance--exhaust manifolds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We've all seen the big, blingy exhaust manifolds on some of the expensive turbo kits with long pipes running up and over and under and down. The manufacturer says it provides equal length tuned runners to scavange the exhaust away from the cylinders. Worth the money? Usually not.

Turbines run on heat. The hotter the exhaust, the faster they spool and the more boost they can make. Need proof? Try this for an experiment on your EMS: take out several degrees of timing in the spoolup and boost region of your maps. The EGTs climb and you'll notice faster spooling and, if your turbo setup is right on the edge of boost creep, you'll get more boost creep.

The problem is, those beautiful, long, shinny pipes act as radiators. They lengthen the distance that the hot exhaust must travel between the port and the turbine and radiate that heat off into the engine bay where it becomes a liability rather than a benefit.

What about the scavenging effects? Bogus! As you start to push your turbine to make big power (whatever big power is for your turbo) exhaust manifold pressure will increase substantially and the scavenging effects of the returning finite pressure waves is greatly minimized. So much for all those beautiful pipes snaking all around the engine bay.

What works best? Short pipes coated with a thermal coating. In fact, the stock exhaust manifold coated and ported is probably going to outperform just about anything you can get out there.

food for thought reading and research for anyone interested
part 1: http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=6629...age=1&pp=30
part 2: http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=6701...length+manifold

[jgreening]

Ah yes, the infamous post by RickyB from 2004 where he essentially argues that the stock manifold is not a performance limitation.

Perhaps you missed this reply (which was left unanswered) from a high hp 3sgte builder in the same thread:

What I noticed was left out of this post for some reason is a description and explanation of which setup will yield the greater volumetric efficiency... or is performance defined as turbo response? Or how about some details and explaination into determining what kind of pressure differential you want between your intake/exhaust... factoring in camshaft profiles and cam timing. Maybe your leaving out some details?? No??

To say that a decent shorty manifold will spool a turbo faster.. well... i thought that was common knowledge.

But for you to just go ahead and make a post saying that tubular style exhaust manifolds will yield "less performance" without far more supporting evidence here is pretty damn... well... ignorant.

There is a lot more to consider in engine performance and turbocharger system efficiency other than "short = hot = spools faster = better"

Based on what you say in your last paragraph... lets take it as vague as you say it.... do you think that if someone was trying to build a 1000hp 2.2L engine, they should use the stock exhaust manifold ported and coated?

BTW I am not trying to argue with you, I am just trying to get your educated feedback for more detailed explanation. I am still in the middle of my hands on R&D of exhaust manifold design so I am not prepared for a dispute with someone I am assuming must have done some R&D on this.

Or, perhaps you missed this post of of Ricky's from 2006:

I'm getting very close to my original goal of making a safe, daily-driving 350rwhp at 15-16psi on 91 octane. I have one more trick in mind that I think will get me there. I am going to ditch the stock exhaust manifold and have Hoover at Turbohoses build me a tubular exhaust manifold.

I have argued many times against poorly made tubular manifolds, but I am willing to try a well made one with good ceramic coating to see what it buys.

(emphasis added)

check it

I think Ricky's opinions have evolved some - perhaps yours should too.

[CilverSeliST205]

This is a very informative thread, I never ran across these mr2oc threads!

[playr158]

I think Ricky's opinions have evolved some - perhaps yours should too.

my opinion is that manifolds like full-race are good have proven gains, that manifold however doesn't appear to be on the level of full race....unless you can prove that manifolds performance, it looks well crafted but not anything remarkable

[Punisher]

I think that manifold was done to fit that turbo more than anything.

[jgreening]

I think that manifold was done to fit that turbo more than anything.

Correct. The alltrac has a very thick aftermarket radiator that did not allow placement of the turbo in front. My point of this thread was that the manifold is a very nice piece of craftsmanship.

[Punisher]

I think that manifold was done to fit that turbo more than anything.

Correct. The alltrac has a very thick aftermarket radiator that did not allow placement of the turbo in front. My point of this thread was that the manifold is a very nice piece of craftsmanship.

I'd have to agree.. there are some pretty tight spots to weld on there

[lagos]

I think that manifold was done to fit that turbo more than anything.

Correct. The alltrac has a very thick aftermarket radiator that did not allow placement of the turbo in front. My point of this thread was that the manifold is a very nice piece of craftsmanship.

besides just the radiator, there is a lot less engine bay room in the 5th gen vs the 6th gen. everything was so cramped on my 5th gen clip. you had to remove the radiator just to do anything, and even then there wasn't much room to work with.

[azian_advanced]

another similar exhaust manifold
iono, just found this on the net, it's worth taking a look at.

[playr158]

thats your standard looking E-bay POS..
the fall apart pretty quick

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I can't see an up-pipe adding that much to a turbo. You would have to be maxing out your turbo and running pretty high boost for one of those to really be effective. At least thats what it seems like to me. I've seen some really high hp numbers made from stock manifolds or log style. That equal length is really pretty though.

[x_itchy_b_x]

it has do do with the pulses of exhaust gas hitting the turbine with an equal pause between each pulse. it just helps low end spool really or even just a little midrange.

[tufy]

manifold is very important. its not only shape thinkness is important also. each pipe should be same lenght. we had so many proplems when bulding my cuscom maniflod. its 48mm thick. good for my turbo and set up. we removed radiotor fans to have space between engine and radiator.



This post has been edited by tufy: Feb 28, 2007 - 5:55 AM