water/methanol injection installed!, like art said, smurf piss FTW! Options

[presure2]

hey guys, got my Devils Own water/methanol injection kit installed this afternoon, with a 3GPH nozzle, art had told me how much he liked his, so i went ahead and got one.
i basicly installed it the same as art, very easy to install.
MAN, this stuff is awesome.
the best way for me to discribe it is that the car feels like it did when i mixed in the race gas. no hesitating, nothing, just pure power, thruout the RPM band...AND,..i turned the boost back up....
13+psi will be the new daily..
..and i havent even touched the emanage yet..
once i get the EM ultimate a bit better fine tuned, ill head back to the dyno to see what it makes on pump, with the smurf piss. i anticipate it will be very close to the race gas mix #s, which would be awesome.
race gas #'s with $1.99 windsheild washer fluid..

[alltracman78]

Damn dude.
That's awesome.

I definitely need to look into this once my engine/clutch are all set...

[lagos]

glad it worked out well for you manny! post your install pics!

[CilverSeliST205]

Thats it i'vs seen enough... my h2o/meth kit has been ordered

[lagos]

manny. next time you go for a ride, let us know how much if a change you see in your egt temps. im willing to bet they dropped at least 100degs.

[NuclearHappineS]

still pushing the 5sfte

[Kadett]

Also interested in this, but will wait after all the BPU parts are installed.

[presure2]

manny. next time you go for a ride, let us know how much if a change you see in your egt temps. im willing to bet they dropped at least 100degs.

ill have to get back to you on that art, my egt gauge is hanging in my engine bay right now...my exhaust manifold that has the EGT bung in it is back @ finishline coatings getting recoated.

[Batman722]

finally getting recoated !! great

when you get that back we will put that back in, I'll see you tonight Manny

[x_itchy_b_x]

awesome! love WI. im glad we have people testing it now.

[Alan]

hey guys, got my Devils Own water/methanol injection kit installed this afternoon, with a 3GPH nozzle, art had told me how much he liked his, so i went ahead and got one.
i basicly installed it the same as art, very easy to install.
MAN, this stuff is awesome.
the best way for me to discribe it is that the car feels like it did when i mixed in the race gas. no hesitating, nothing, just pure power, thruout the RPM band...AND,..i turned the boost back up....
13+psi will be the new daily..
..and i havent even touched the emanage yet..
once i get the EM ultimate a bit better fine tuned, ill head back to the dyno to see what it makes on pump, with the smurf piss. i anticipate it will be very close to the race gas mix #s, which would be awesome.
race gas #'s with $1.99 windsheild washer fluid..

Awsome, will definatly do it on my next project .
How much boost would you be pumping in for raceing not daily driving, and with maybe some race gas

[Negative]

Manny - Is your 5S-FTE still on stock internals?

[Batman722]

Manny - Is your 5S-FTE still on stock internals?

yes it is

[Negative]

His project gives me such hope - and he gives me such good advice. I think I would have just swapped long ago if not for his results.
Thanks Manny and thanks batman722 for the answer.

[presure2]

hey guys, got my Devils Own water/methanol injection kit installed this afternoon, with a 3GPH nozzle, art had told me how much he liked his, so i went ahead and got one.
i basicly installed it the same as art, very easy to install.
MAN, this stuff is awesome.
the best way for me to discribe it is that the car feels like it did when i mixed in the race gas. no hesitating, nothing, just pure power, thruout the RPM band...AND,..i turned the boost back up....
13+psi will be the new daily..
..and i havent even touched the emanage yet..
once i get the EM ultimate a bit better fine tuned, ill head back to the dyno to see what it makes on pump, with the smurf piss. i anticipate it will be very close to the race gas mix #s, which would be awesome.
race gas #'s with $1.99 windsheild washer fluid..

Awsome, will definatly do it on my next project .
How much boost would you be pumping in for raceing not daily driving, and with maybe some race gas

with the meth injection, i can run up to my map sensors limit ~15psi, before fuel cut hits.

yea, no internal upgrades on the motor, and as it stands, i have no plans to, or reason to.

[Negative]

Which map sensor are you using? The 3s 2bar map is still good to use right?

[6strngs]

hmm, I'm curious now. could a water/methanol injection kit be used instead of an intercooler on a turbocharged set-up? also, could it benefit a NA engine?

[rzanology]

where are you guys getting this kit from??? ebay?

[6strngs]

where are you guys getting this kit from??? ebay?

probably http://www.alcohol-injection.com/

[lagos]

hmm, I'm curious now. could a water/methanol injection kit be used instead of an intercooler on a turbocharged set-up?

yes. you can run WI instead of an intercooler. sabb even had a production car that was cooled by water injection alone. i think some supercharger guys use it instead of an IC too.

but for our cars, you should have at least a front mount. its a little too risky to just rely on WI for all your cooling needs. an fmic with WI is the way to go.

as far as an NA car goes... you wont see much benefit. most 4cyl NA motors and tuned to run on normal pump gas and dont have to deal with the very high cylinder temps that a turbo adds.

[x_itchy_b_x]

alot of NA guys use WI so they can advance timing with the added octane.
if your car needs 89octane and u run 93octane but dont tune for it you wont feel a difference.
same thing with WI if you dont tune for it ie: add boost or advance timing youll notice gains.

im sorry if this doenst make sense im sick at home with alot of nightquil? nyquil?

[rzanology]

odered mine

From what im hearing...the only downfall is when you run out of the fluid...you're kinda in danger of everything going lean. what are you guys doing to avoid that? Is that where the "top off everything time you fill up" comes from?

[x_itchy_b_x]

they have level sensor switches and better yet an inline pressure/flow switch you can add in for added precaution. Just check on the level often.

[bojangles_8686]

odered mine

From what im hearing...the only downfall is when you run out of the fluid...you're kinda in danger of everything going lean. what are you guys doing to avoid that? Is that where the "top off everything time you fill up" comes from?

brianforster and i were talking about this the other day. if you use the stock washer fluid tank you would get a warning light showing that you have low washer fluid

[rzanology]

you guys get that??? LMAO!!! i dont get no damn washer fluid warning. i get ebrake up and your air bags not plugged in lol.

but seriously...i dont think the stock tank would be big enough, you might have to run under there and refill more often than you'd want. not a bad idea though.

[rzanology]

hold on hold on hold on. once this is installed....there is no going back? Meaning....if the bottle runs dry....something will break??? From now on will i be pulling over to fill up on washer fluid?

[shin]

hold on hold on hold on. once this is installed....there is no going back? Meaning....if the bottle runs dry....something will break??? From now on will i be pulling over to fill up on washer fluid?

or ya could just fill it up every morning before ya go to work or something. i mean ya gonna pop the hood everyday just to check if everything's alright.. gotta check your oil, leaks etc.. just 1 more stuff to do before ya start driving.. it's mandatory for you since ya turboed your 5s

[lagos]

hold on hold on hold on. once this is installed....there is no going back? Meaning....if the bottle runs dry....something will break??? From now on will i be pulling over to fill up on washer fluid?

huh? if you run out of washer fluid, then the car will run just like it does right now. the only thing will make it unsafe is how much boost you run and how far your trying to push things. if you decied that now you want to run 18psi with water injection (dont do that, its just an example) then you better make sure youre fuild is topped off and everything in the system is working correctly.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/fluid-lev...witch-p-10.html
they sell this level sensor that you can wire into your setup. it can be wired up to turn off anything you want if the level gets too low. im probably going to buy it and wire it in to shut off my EBC if the level gets low.

i also installed an LED to tell me when the system kicks on. so i could use the level switch to make that led not come on when there isint enough washer fluid in the tank.

[lagos]

rzanology: you have a turbo setup or a 3s swap, right? in you profile it says you have a 5sfe. if thats true then water injection wont work for you.


as far as filling the tank back up. you definetly dont need to do it once a day or anything like that. all if it will depend on the size of your tank, what boost you have it to start at, and how hard youve been driving. i havent even had to refill mine yet. if i had to guess, i would say that if your really really beating on the car, then you might have to fill up at the same time you get gas, but on average a single bottle will last you at least 2-3weeks.

[rzanology]

nah im running a 5sfte....take a look

thats the way my common sense said it would just run like normal...but the A HOLES! i talk to sometimes was saying it will blow your engine and all types of madness. Thanks for clearing it up. WI+fuel pump+460cc+safc tune=happy rza

[lagos]

nah im running a 5sfte....take a look

thats the way my common sense said it would just run like normal...but the A HOLES! i talk to sometimes was saying it will blow your engine and all types of madness. Thanks for clearing it up. WI+fuel pump+460cc+safc tune=happy rza

i think the people who told you it would blow your motor might be thinking of nitrous or something. if you have a 5sfTe it will benefit you in a BIG way. your going to add a HUGE safety net to your setup to help deal with the NA timing and high compression that your 5sfe normally has, and cut down on any chance of detonation. it will pretty much give you the same results as if you were able to fill the car up with race gas.

[lagos]

in car vid from my last dyno run.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...D2D247567392394

look at the green LED next to the boost gauge. i wired that in to come on every time WI is spraying. if i get the level switch, i can wire it up so that the LED will not come on if the system is low on fluid.

[rzanology]

reeeeally nice...get us a lil write up on that. That may very well be a needed step.

[lagos]

its really simple.

buy a 12v green led, with built in resistor from radio shack for 2bucks.
connect the red wire to any switched 12 power source.
splice in the black wire to the same wire that runs from the WI's pressure switch, to the relay.

[6strngs]

in car vid from my last dyno run.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...D2D247567392394

look at the green LED next to the boost gauge. i wired that in to come on every time WI is spraying. if i get the level switch, i can wire it up so that the LED will not come on if the system is low on fluid.

wow, your boost climbs way faster after the WI kicks in! very nice, I wish my car could accellerate that fast in 4th. lol

[WALKER]

manny. next time you go for a ride, let us know how much if a change you see in your egt temps. im willing to bet they dropped at least 100degs.

Sorry, this is off topic, but just wondering what range of EGT's are you guys seeing without water injection, I am just looking into gauges and am wondering are they ever over 1600F? I have been looking at a couple of options, one is 1600F max and the other is 2200F max.

[presure2]

manny. next time you go for a ride, let us know how much if a change you see in your egt temps. im willing to bet they dropped at least 100degs.

Sorry, this is off topic, but just wondering what range of EGT's are you guys seeing without water injection, I am just looking into gauges and am wondering are they ever over 1600F? I have been looking at a couple of options, one is 1600F max and the other is 2200F max.

assuming theyre both quality gauges, i would get the higher one.
last i had my gauge in (i took the maifold off for recoating) i was seeing temps climbing to 14-1500 under boost...before the 460s, it was constantly rising. from what ive read, anything over 1650 is bad bad bad. most recommend a lower point than that.
ive seen 1600* temps under boost when i had the small injectors.
im really looking forward to see what they will be with the WI once i get the manifold back and the EGT back in.

[jgreening]

manny. next time you go for a ride, let us know how much if a change you see in your egt temps. im willing to bet they dropped at least 100degs.

Sorry, this is off topic, but just wondering what range of EGT's are you guys seeing without water injection, I am just looking into gauges and am wondering are they ever over 1600F? I have been looking at a couple of options, one is 1600F max and the other is 2200F max.

Mine got over 1500F but never up to 1600F.

[jgreening]

if you run out of washer fluid, then the car will run just like it does right now. the only thing will make it unsafe is how much boost you run and how far your trying to push things.

The bold statement is true if you are using only the stock ECU. However, if you tune more agressively through ignition timing advance or leaner a/f ratios with your water injection on, running out of water or some other malfunction could result in real trouble.

[OOBE]

race gas #'s with $1.99 windsheild washer fluid..

That's awesome, man. Here in PR people don't believe in that stuff and rather fill up on VP.

[malecrod]

Got my Devils Own water/methanol injection installed. Finished it up this afternoon. I spent a whole day after locating where to install everything and then fabricating brackets to make it fit. Take a look at pics in my profile. I don't know how to post pics in forums. I got the 2quart tank from Devils own and this is just small enough allowing me to fit the pump and tank in between the power steering resevoir and the original windshield water tank. It has a black plastic cover on it to keep everything clean and out of site. I also installed the green LED next to my boost gauge that lights up when injection is operational. My impression: Car pulls very quickly and steadily all throughout the my stock boost range. Basically, it makes the car feels very light. I'm seeing just a tad over 10psi when normally this warm out, I see around 8-9 top. Oh yeah, I can now literally touch the intercooler piping above my valve cover after a run without getting burned. I'm yet to raise my boost, kinda need the courage to add that MBC to go over toyota's stock boost and fuel cut LOL.
Anyway, If money is not an issue, I recommend it to swappers.
Thanks Lagos and Pressure2.

This post has been edited by malecrod: Jul 15, 2007 - 8:58 PM

[lagos]

glad to see this is working out well for everyone.

[Kadett]

Would love to install a kit as well. Only problem is to find a suitable location on the ST205 engine. Before the W2A IC is not an option and after there is only room on the rubber gator and the throttle body housing itself.

[lagos]

from what i hear, most alltrac guys install it in the top mount, right after the turbo.

[Kadett]

It just doesn't seem right to spray water before the intercooler. The closer to the TB the better the performance right? Just compare it with your setup. It wouldn't be that good if you sprayed before your FMIC.

[lagos]

yeah your right... but im just saying what ive seen most alltrac guys do. it would still benefit you since there is such a short distance from the turbo to the throttle body.

[malecrod]

Would love to install a kit as well. Only problem is to find a suitable location on the ST205 engine. Before the W2A IC is not an option and after there is only room on the rubber gator and the throttle body housing itself.

if you don't have an ABS unit( i think) that seats between the windshield washer and power steering reservoir, you can fit the pump and 6"x4" tank at that location. That's how I did mine. So everything is in the engine bay and your methanol/water tank will be conveniently next to the washer fluid reservoir.
But if you have ABS unit, then you can still fit it in the trunk like Lagos did his.

[toyotacrazy]

Would love to install a kit as well. Only problem is to find a suitable location on the ST205 engine. Before the W2A IC is not an option and after there is only room on the rubber gator and the throttle body housing itself.

if you don't have an ABS unit( i think) that seats between the windshield washer and power steering reservoir, you can fit the pump and 6"x4" tank at that location. That's how I did mine. So everything is in the engine bay and your methanol/water tank will be conveniently next to the washer fluid reservoir.
But if you have ABS unit, then you can still fit it in the trunk like Lagos did his.

Or, you could relocate your battery to the trunk and put the pump and washer bottle in the batterys old location.

[Kadett]

You guys miss the point. Putting the pump/reservoir etc etc isn't a problem. Thats very easy to accomplish. The thing I need is a good location for the nozzle to be placed. What Art suggested (from all trac guys) isn't good enough for me. I want it as close to the TB as possible.

[Gary]

Where did you get that from?
Most alltrac guys I know running WI, have the nozzle on the TB inlet.
And the water tank should be as far as possible from the heat source (engine)

This post has been edited by Gary: Jul 17, 2007 - 12:35 PM

[Kadett]

Where did you get that from?
Most alltrac guys I know running WI, have the nozzle on the TB inlet.
And the water tank should be as far as possible from the heat source (engine)

from what i hear, most alltrac guys install it in the top mount, right after the turbo.

Thats where, in this topic When I'm gonna purchase the kit and plan to do the TB location I will let a Tuning Shop (a good one of course) do it for me. Dont wanna f&^k things up especially something that has to do with drilling and taping into your intake system

[CaliJeff]

good idea

[lagos]

Where did you get that from?
Most alltrac guys I know running WI, have the nozzle on the TB inlet.
And the water tank should be as far as possible from the heat source (engine)

from what i hear, most alltrac guys install it in the top mount, right after the turbo.

Thats where, in this topic When I'm gonna purchase the kit and plan to do the TB location I will let a Tuning Shop (a good one of course) do it for me. Dont wanna f&^k things up especially something that has to do with drilling and taping into your intake system

i wouldnt trust or pay anyone to install WI. you wouldn't want some genius to start drilling your intake manifold or something.

your only options would be to try to install it in the rubber coupled by the TB, or somewhere in the intercooler, like that long section after the turbo. the rubber coupler is a gamble, because it might not seal right.

[toyotacrazy]

I used a small section of the aluminum intercooler piping to install the nossle. I put the injector just before the rubber section before the throttle body. I can give pics if you want. The only problem I had was I ran the tube along the intercooler piping. It melted! Now its ok with some exhaust wrap around it.
I didnt want to put the injector before the intercooler. I was afraid the washer fluid would pool up.

[Kadett]

Sure if you can give me a few pics!

[CaliJeff]

x2. show sum pix !

[toyotacrazy]

^^^^PUMP BEHIND FRONT BUMPER COVER ON CRASH BAR^^^^



^^^^^^^NOZZLE^^^^^^^^^^^^


This post has been edited by toyotacrazy: Jul 18, 2007 - 7:53 PM

[Kadett]

Thx for the pics, but it doesn't help me in my case. ST205 with W2A intercooler.

[phattyduck]

Thx for the pics, but it doesn't help me in my case. ST205 with W2A intercooler.

I'm planning on doing water/methanol injection on my ST205 motor too... It'll be fun to try to find a spot to put it in the 3" or so between the intercooler and throttle body...

-Charlie

[Defgeph]

I have had the same issue with this nozzle. It's either going through the rubber inlet, or replacing the cold start injector. I am not drilling a hole in my IC.

[CaliJeff]

sooo, the vast majority of you guys' appear to put ur nozzle closest to the tb, and not b4 the intercooler.

[toyotacrazy]

sooo, the vast majority of you guys' appear to put ur nozzle closest to the tb, and not b4 the intercooler.

correct. I dont see any good reason to put it that far back. It still makes a HUGE performance difference.

[Kadett]

I have had the same issue with this nozzle. It's either going through the rubber inlet, or replacing the cold start injector. I am not drilling a hole in my IC.

What would be the consequences if the cold start injector is removed? Less fuel spray on startup, need more turns to start the car?

[toyotacrazy]

I have had the same issue with this nozzle. It's either going through the rubber inlet, or replacing the cold start injector. I am not drilling a hole in my IC.

What would be the consequences if the cold start injector is removed? Less fuel spray on startup, need more turns to start the car?

yup[

[lagos]

3rd gens dont have a csi. the ecu just dumps more fuel at start up with the regular injectors.

[Kadett]

3rd gens dont have a csi. the ecu just dumps more fuel at start up with the regular injectors.

Bad news for me then.

[malecrod]

Just a suggestion, for those of you with the top mount: what if you fabricate 2 large enough washers fitting the contour of your rubber inlet and with holes tap/threaded in them for the nozzle. One of each washer on either side of the rubber inlet( that is inside and outside) to hold the nozzle. i think this might actually hold the nozzle securely and prevent it from being sucked in.
The only problem I see here might be the nozzle not being long enough to go through all the washers. But is something to look into if not tried already.

[CaliJeff]

seems like a good idea, just gotta make sure it fits just rite tho.

[nammer]

bringing this thread back from the dead...

I have a GT-Four WRC and still haven't figured out where I'm going to put the nozzles after the W2A IC as close to the throttle body as possible. I asked _Jim_ and he said:

As for injector location, if your GEN3 isnt a WRC then there is no "spot" for you to just insert the injector. They have a special fitting for the meth injectors that allow you to fasten them to silcone couplers such as the one connecting the cold side of the W2A IC to the throttle body. If you dont want to do that, then you can drill and tap the top of the throttle body and inset it there.

Does anyone have a picture of this "special fitting for the meth injectors" that he speaks of? I took a look around and have no idea what that looks like.

[_Jim_]

this will give you a visual of what I was talking about. There are several ways of doing it.

Water Injection nozzle for couplers...CLICK ME

This post has been edited by _Jim_: Aug 11, 2010 - 7:45 PM

[mgnt232]

can injection be put on any car? does it need to be turboed? im just curious

[_Jim_]

Yes, it can be put onto any car. But it only shows gains on cars with forced induction.

[mgnt232]

oh bummer, next year, as next summer I will going to you for a swap...btw lol Starting saving now

[nammer]

this will give you a visual of what I was talking about. There are several ways of doing it.

Water Injection nozzle for couplers...CLICK ME

Thanks Jim, that's what I was looking for. Looking at the AEM kit, it seems all I would be missing the adapter...can i get that at a hardware store?
link to AEM kit

This post has been edited by nammer: Aug 12, 2010 - 3:53 AM

[nammer]

anyone know where I can get the adapter that would fit with AEM's nozzles? It doesn't seem like AEM has those 90 degree nozzles.

Would it be okay to position the nozzle on the side of the silicone coupler (parallel with the ground and have the spray perpendicular to the airflow through the throttle body) and just use washers to make it fit tight and snug?

Also, on a stock engine with aftermarket exhaust and intake, Jim told me a safe level to set my boost at is 18psi...what psi setting should I put on the progressive controller for start and full spray?

They recommend the 315cc/min nozzle tip for 250-400hp...would it be overkill to use the 550cc/min nozzle for 400-650hp? The only problem I can see with this is too much water/meth might retard the combustion if temperatures aren't high enough...

thanks!