Learning how to drive, which car to buy? Options

[Hanyo]

I want to learn how to drive. I want to buy a rear wheel drive car to learn to control a real car. My friends and I have been throwing around the idea of going to a driving school and getting some instructions. But none of us are willing to tear up our clutches and tires.

So I'm looking at getting a rwd car to learn to drive in.

what it has to have are:

1) cheap and cheap parts. I intend to break alot of things.

2) RWD obviously.

3) some aftermarket suport.

4) manual tranmission


Orginally, we where planing on getting a cressida, it has a 6 cyclinder engine with 4 wheel disc brakes. But they all came in automatics and there is no aftermarket support. so that got cut. (i know some parts and interchangable with the supra.. but too much work )

240's are way over priced for what they are worth. I've been looking around, and they sell for two grand for a not runing shell.

Corolla gts/sr5 (AE86) are way over priced agian! The cheapest i've seen is 3000. That is way too much to pay considering most likely we will end up puting this car into a ditch or rolling it over.

Pick-up trucks? hmmm i dont think that is a good idea....



yea.. i'm all out of ideas....

[Vissi]

older rx7? They got plenty of support.

[spolski07]

older rx7? They got plenty of support.

FC3S ftw!
lol lots of verts but if you find a NA hatch, it will be worth it
look for a 86+

[Hanyo]

wow i completely forgot about the rx's.

But rotor engines tend to wear out around the 100k mark and there is very little you can do to replair them. Your only option is to replace the entire engine...

they are low on power though... i'll add them to my list. =)

[Valo666]

miatas are cheap and easy to drive, or S13s even though they have alot of understeer. But either or good cars, same with the FC. If you wanna learn a good way, i donno if they have it down there, but up here in ontario they have a BMW driving school where they take you to a track and let you drive every thing from an old E30 M3 to a brand new ZM4 roadster. They teach you about where to put your hands, how to shift, how to controll the car through turns, when to accelerate etc. Its a good course, its like $300 for a weekend or somethin like that, but i have alot of my friends who are drifters *one of them is about to try out for formula D for next year* and they all took the course.

[BlackCelicaGT94]

older rx7 would be sweet starter car

[slvr_celica_GT_8...]

older 300zx, i almost bought one for like 700 bucks i think it was a 84, it was white, 6 cylinder turbo 5 speed the only reson i didnt buy it was because the frame was rusted too bad, and the clutch was on its way out but those are nice cars it belonged to my friend and it was a fun car to go empty walmart parking lot drifting in, really fast for how old it was

[CelicaST202]

Miatas

[Vissi]

Miatas are good cars, but i woudent want to learn in one, there a bit tiny.
I guess if its in an open area,and if you get stuck in a ditch you could just push it out .
-dave

[spolski07]

wow i completely forgot about the rx's.

But rotor engines tend to wear out around the 100k mark and there is very little you can do to replair them. Your only option is to replace the entire engine...

they are low on power though... i'll add them to my list. =)

the 13b-REW (3rd gen) tends to wear down
in the 13b (FC3S) the thing you have to worry about is the apex seal
if you find a T2 FC3S, (turbo II) you will not be underpowered!

[lagos]

learn to drive? like get your drivers license? you want something nice and safe for doing that. cars are a lot harder to control then it seems, and it takes a few years to become a good driver.

This post has been edited by lagos: May 15, 2007 - 8:54 AM

[spolski07]

learn to drive? like get your drivers license? you want something nice and safe for doing that. cars are a lot harder to control then it seems, and it takes a few years to become a good driver.

judging by how long he has been a member and how many posts he has made.
i think he has his dl


ps: since when are rwd cars the only "real" cars? lol

[95celgt]

Well, I have an FC, its a great car, it handles amazing for it bein 20 yrs old, fun to drive, and although the N/A doesnt have alot of hp, its still way faster than a n/a celica, because of weight.

Mine is a 86 base model(lightest of all the FC's due to the lack of federal saftey standards on that year, and no sunroof) it runs high 15's right off the bat and has a high top speed(about 130-135)

I would almost say that the FC is a better "driving car" than my 3s celi, only loosing due to the fact that the 3s has amazing power.....

[Hanyo]

the 13b-REW (3rd gen) tends to wear down
in the 13b (FC3S) the thing you have to worry about is the apex seal
if you find a T2 FC3S, (turbo II) you will not be underpowered!

Do you know what year rx7 each engine comes in?

learn to drive? like get your drivers license? you want something nice and safe for doing that. cars are a lot harder to control then it seems, and it takes a few years to become a good driver.

Yes I have had my licence for years now.

ps: since when are rwd cars the only "real" cars? lol

well its going to be hard to find a fwd ferrari or porsche. =p

Ulitimately I want to beable to autocross and get good at it. I know about apexing the corner and weight shift. But there is a HUGE difference between knowing and doing.

[Kwanza26]

Get a 240sx... they're cheap and FAR FAR more reliable than an rx7. If you haven't found anything around 2k... you're either not looking hard enough... or just being cheap.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/331680415.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/330265907.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/328362523.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/327413403.html

That was about a minute of searching

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: May 15, 2007 - 7:35 PM

[orvillescelica]

how about a Mk1 MR2. The 4age will have plenty of aftermarket support and i bet you can score a good one for under $1K

[SinisterWhisper]

mr2 mk1 are cheap starter cars, but be careful with rust! After market support isn't too shabby and if you want more power drop a blacktop in it.

[Valo666]

if u wanna learn how to drift, etc, dont get an MR2, MR cars have alot of oversteer issues. Also if you get a 240sx, dont get one with hicas *4wheel steer* or if you do, go out and get a hicas delete bar. They are like $100 or so. S13s are good cars too, and have tons and tons and tons of aftermarket support.

[spolski07]

[quote name='Hanyo' date='May 15, 2007 - 7:19 PM' post='558093']
[quote name='spolski07' post='557796' date='May 15, 2007 - 6:07 AM']
the 13b-REW (3rd gen) tends to wear down
in the 13b (FC3S) the thing you have to worry about is the apex seal
if you find a T2 FC3S, (turbo II) you will not be underpowered!
[/quote]

Do you know what year rx7 each engine comes in?

1st gen rx7:
base: 12A (crap dont get)
Gs and GSE: 13b
2nd gen rx7:
all NA: 13b
TII: 13bT
3rd gen rx7:
base: 13b-rew (twin turbo)
Touring: 13b-rew (twin turbo)

and someone correct me if im wrong on all of that

[Hanyo]

older 300zx, i almost bought one for like 700 bucks i think it was a 84, it was white, 6 cylinder turbo 5 speed the only reson i didnt buy it was because the frame was rusted too bad, and the clutch was on its way out but those are nice cars it belonged to my friend and it was a fun car to go empty walmart parking lot drifting in, really fast for how old it was

I want to find deals like those. Pretty much a junk car with aftermarket support. I have NO intention to re-sell the car. The next step in that cars life would be to go to the junk yard.

Miatas

I'm worried about how small it is and the lack of a roof. Roll overs would not be fun. =/

Get a 240sx... they're cheap and FAR FAR more reliable than an rx7. If you haven't found anything around 2k... you're either not looking hard enough... or just being cheap.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/331680415.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/330265907.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/328362523.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/327413403.html

That was about a minute of searching

Those are good finds, but they have an awefull amount of miles. I actually have a budget of 5+ grand. But I will be spending majority of that to rebuilding the suspension/engine (bushings/shocks/wheel bearings.. ect)

how about a Mk1 MR2. The 4age will have plenty of aftermarket support and i bet you can score a good one for under $1K

hmmm.. the engine bay is too cramped. I dont like the idea of having to reach down all the way to fix things. And since I will be buying a real junky car it will need repairs constantly. Also mr2 bite you when you mess up at the cars limit. The rear engine makes the back end slide out and that can hurt.

[Kwanza26]

Get a 240sx... they're cheap and FAR FAR more reliable than an rx7. If you haven't found anything around 2k... you're either not looking hard enough... or just being cheap.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/331680415.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/330265907.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/328362523.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/327413403.html

That was about a minute of searching

Those are good finds, but they have an awefull amount of miles. I actually have a budget of 5+ grand. But I will be spending majority of that to rebuilding the suspension/engine (bushings/shocks/wheel bearings.. ect)

If you say so. I don't get what you're trying to do here based on what you're saying though. If you want a "learner" car... there's not a lot of sense putting money/time into it. Just basic suspension, LSD, and that's it. All of my "learner" cars in the past never had any engine mods, and I blew plenty of 4AG's and 13b's. It sounds like you're asking for something "quality"... yet don't wanna put up for it... yet you don't want something nice enough that you worry about crashing... yet those that fit in that catergory have too many miles? If you're just gonna bash it anyways... drive it till it breaks then put in another motor. KA24's aren't too terribly expensive.

[Hanyo]

If you say so. I don't get what you're trying to do here based on what you're saying though. If you want a "learner" car... there's not a lot of sense putting money/time into it. Just basic suspension, LSD, and that's it. All of my "learner" cars in the past never had any engine mods, and I blew plenty of 4AG's and 13b's. It sounds like you're asking for something "quality"... yet don't wanna put up for it... yet you don't want something nice enough that you worry about crashing... yet those that fit in that catergory have too many miles? If you're just gonna bash it anyways... drive it till it breaks then put in another motor. KA24's aren't too terribly expensive.

Your misunderstanding me. I'm not saying I dont want those cars. I am just being objective. I dont want to jump on any deals just yet. I'm still on the research stage. If you read my post. I never once mentioned upgrading the engine for big horsepwer. I plan to keep the engine complete stock. But I will be stressing this engine out and bouncing off the rev limitor. So I dont think a 200k engine will be able to take that amount of abuse without reconditioning. Also a 200k tranmission will not like my newbie practicing of heal and toe shifting. I can just image how badly I will mess up on the track.

I will definely crash this car. But I would prefer to roll-over/crash a larger car then a tiny miata. I mean a soft top miata vs a Bid ol' 300z, which car would you want to get in a wrech in?

Again, i'm just being objective here and inspire some idea's.

Let me use this car as an example:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/331680415.html

it has a blow head gasket and no powersteering.

VS this car:


http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/333106890.html


The old rx7 has half the miles of the 240 and is half the price. My main fear is having the wheel bearings fail on me and having a tire roll away from me as I am driving. I fear high mileage cars, I've experience too many snaped bolts. A normal 1 day timing belt job turns into a entire week project because you snap all the bolds and need to source out new ones and retaping the holes.


Another thing is, I dont want such a junk car that I won't learn anything from. Its like taking an automatic cadilac to the track. Sure I will be able to take it around the track a couple times. But the car suspension is so soft and un-reponsive that I will never learn how to properly counter steer or feel where the limits of traction are.

Another question I have, Is it a bad idea to use cheap tires on a track car? I mean I dont plan on setting lap records.

[Kwanza26]

Your misunderstanding me. I'm not saying I dont want those cars. I am just being objective. I dont want to jump on any deals just yet. I'm still on the research stage. If you read my post. I never once mentioned upgrading the engine for big horsepwer. I plan to keep the engine complete stock. But I will be stressing this engine out and bouncing off the rev limitor. So I dont think a 200k engine will be able to take that amount of abuse without reconditioning. Also a 200k tranmission will not like my newbie practicing of heal and toe shifting. I can just image how badly I will mess up on the track.

I will definely crash this car. But I would prefer to roll-over/crash a larger car then a tiny miata. I mean a soft top miata vs a Bid ol' 300z, which car would you want to get in a wrech in?

The old rx7 has half the miles of the 240 and is half the price. My main fear is having the wheel bearings fail on me and having a tire roll away from me as I am driving. I fear high mileage cars, I've experience too many snaped bolts. A normal 1 day timing belt job turns into a entire week project because you snap all the bolds and need to source out new ones and retaping the holes.


Another thing is, I dont want such a junk car that I won't learn anything from. Its like taking an automatic cadilac to the track. Sure I will be able to take it around the track a couple times. But the car suspension is so soft and un-reponsive that I will never learn how to properly counter steer or feel where the limits of traction are.

Another question I have, Is it a bad idea to use cheap tires on a track car? I mean I dont plan on setting lap records.

I still think you're going about it the wrong way. What i'm getting is... You want a car you can "crash" and not worry. Basically a boro race car. Then you say you don't want "junk"... well... what do you want? and... why even worry about power steering?
Personally... i'd buy a shell or a very cheap car... and if you look... you're definately find a 240sx CHEAP. If the motor is weak... race it till it blows. Replace. Same goes for the tranny. If it already has a blown motor... put in a new one and then not worry. Mileage and stuff shouldn't even be an issue. As for the RX7... they're cheap for a reason. My first race car was an 88 RX7 GXL. The first engine lasted almost one season... the second lasted till the start of the second season, and the current 3rd motor has maybe 40k miles on it. The first tranny lasted 2 seasons, and the second tranny is currently dead. The car has... I think like ~120k miles. That said... I'd take a 240sx with a blown headgasket ANY DAY over a rotary. Rotor seals + intense heat + prolonged spinning = blown motor.

In the end... you get what you pay for. If you want to do it cheap... it doesn't get cheaper than 240sx's and RX7's... but between the two... I'd take a 240 any day of the week. You cannot AVOID high miles... you cannot avoid regular maintainence. These ares are all nearly 20 years old. I don't misunderstand you... I just think you're not quite sure what you want... and you're blending a street car with a track car.

[goferris]

k
why not a mustang?
if all you want it for is to learn how to drive RWD you can get one for dirt cheap. if you plan on getting rid of the celi than def get something much better.
personally i don't like them and wouldn't ever have one as a serious car but hey. that doesn't sound like what you want it for.
i am not a big fan of american cars altogether, but if you want power for cheap than get a mustang. and if you roll it that just means one more cheap mustang off the road to make way for a real car.

if you want something to supe up that aren't too much i think that you can get a 87-93 supra for not too bad a price. it really just depends on what you want.

[6strngs]

how about an old 85 celica GTS. RWD and has a 22r motor. I know there is some aftermarket for the motor (probably cause it's also used in a toyota truck (forgot which one) that people always use for off roading) don't know about suspension though.

or MK1 or MK2 celica supra.

or a datsun/nissan 260z/280zx

[ra65_22re]

how about an old 85 celica GTS. RWD and has a 22r motor. I know there is some aftermarket for the motor (probably cause it's also used in a toyota truck (forgot which one) that people always use for off roading) don't know about suspension though.

or MK1 or MK2 celica supra.

or a datsun/nissan 260z/280zx

i had a 84 celica gts. their really cheap and it doesnt take much to make them pretty quick. just get a rebuilt head, RV cam, throw on a supra lsd on it and your good to go. mine smashed on all my honda friends car back in high school. plus i could drift around the parking lot for some added fun.