Electronic Turbo Options

[SleeperCelica]

Is this a good buy? or crap?

[bonzaisushi]

C.R.A.P worthelss POS air blocker powerstealing.... etc etc etc

[SleeperCelica]

haha thanks

[FallenHero]

I think it's a good idea, but there are no real ones out there. Lets be honest. If you are a company, aren't you going to concentrate on a real turbo?

I think one day there will be a credible electric turbo system good for low RPM power. Other than that, it's a joke.

Jon

[Uppitycracker]

QUOTE (FallenHero @ Jul 31, 2003 - 9:55 PM)

I think it's a good idea, but there are no real ones out there. Lets be honest. If you are a company, aren't you going to concentrate on a real turbo? I think one day there will be a credible electric turbo system good for low RPM power. Other than that, it's a joke. Jon

Well since the whole princible behind a turbo charger is making use of exhaust flow then an "electronic turbo charger" isnt a turbo charger at all. If you want a charger that runs off the crank then get a super charger. Besides electronic chargers have been shown to be very improbable. They would require more alternaters and batteries then you could fit under the hood and not too mention all the power from the engine too run the system.

And the other guy said it right, the amount of curculation created by one of those pieces of **** is less then wheat the engine sucks in, therefore the engine will actually be spinning the blade faster then the motor attached to it can, Making it slightly slow the air intake down. Allsoooo when the engine is done beating the **** out of that plastic blade the thing is going to snap and fly into your engine then your cheap ass can spend $$$$ on a new engine instead of a real turbo.

PS Fallen hero Im not trying to flame you in the first paragraph for the comment, just enlightening you about what Ive read on other forums and car pages.

[KAMiX]

Yeah the current POS electric chargers are crap. But as Jon said the theory works. The real problem is powering the turbine or fan. I think if a car manufacturer put some decent R&D into it, it could be the next phase of Forced Induction.

I have thought about this for a while, and I think with electro magnets (I think thats what they're called - damn brain) you could get crazy RPM's happening on your turbine and be able to control its speed by the current (small) that you feed into the magnets. I can't go more in depth because my high school physics is getting a bit fuzzy but I think the general idea is good - with a bit more thought put into it than these crappy ebay ones.


I guess the bonus of a decent electric turbo would be the same as a supercharger - no blockages in your exhaust.

This post has been edited by kamixZR: Aug 1, 2003 - 12:55 AM

[boosted_K2]

wow lots of mis-information.

A) a turbo system is baised on a turbine, not necessarily exhaust pressure, although "turbo" when talking about vehicles ARE based on exhaust pressure, there are plenty of other non automotive applications where turbos are run off of electric, belt, phneumatic, or hydrolic power sources.

B) The reason an automotive electric turbo charger wont work is because of the speed the turbine needs to spin to produce a pressurized area. actual exhaust driven turbos can spin in excess of 60K RPM, these 12V driven turbines produce no more than 10K RPM at best (i dont remember the exact #s but the difference is HUGE), theres no way they can spin at a high enough rotational velocity to produce the pressure needed to provide any decent ammount of forced induction. which is pretty much exactly what kamix and uppity's posts were saying.

C) A turbo most certainly does not block exhaust gases. what happens is when there is too much build up of exhaust pressure in the exhaust side of the turbine, the wastegate will open and allow the gases to bypass the turbo system completely and either dump it into the atmosphere or right into your exhaust pipe (the ones that dump it into the atmosphere are not DOT legal for emission reasons). also turbo systems enjoy a bit of back pressure, this is due to the fact that to spool up the exhaust turbine, it isnt the exhaust gas actually flowing through the turbine that spools the turbo, it is in fact the exhaust gases expanding from heat that causes the wheel to spool, so if the exhaust gases are in the turbine for a little longer, it allows them to expand a bit more and spool the turbo quicker than if it was completely 100% free flowing.

[Uppitycracker]

QUOTE (K2_Celica @ Jul 31, 2003 - 10:30 PM)

wow lots of mis-information. A ..there are plenty of other non automotive applications where turbos are run off of electric, belt, phneumatic, or hydrolic power sources.... C) A turbo most certainly does not block exhaust gases. what happens is when there is too much build up of exhaust pressure in the exhaust side of the turbine, the wastegate will open and allow the gases to bypass the turbo system completely....... also turbo systems enjoy a bit of back pressure, this is due to the fact that to spool up the exhaust turbine, it isnt the exhaust gas actually flowing through the turbine that spools the turbo, it is in fact the exhaust gases expanding from heat that causes the wheel to spool.....

A, ya i knew that there are other applications for turbine forced induction, I was just speaking in an auto-motive sense.

C, I knew that, Ive seen diagrams of turbo systems and what not, and the second thing about back pressure is something I have been wondering about, thanks.

I just think there is no sense in an electronic "turbo", atleast in a car, the exhaust driven turbo is such a genius method of power gain, its just so logical, Im suprised every car isnt turboed, it makes sense to me, but I guess it comes with a certain amount of maintanance responsability.

[Uppitycracker]

QUOTE (kamixZR @ Jul 31, 2003 - 10:09 PM)

I have thought about this for a while, and I think with electro magnets (I think thats what they're called - damn brain) you could get crazy RPM's happening on your turbine.......

Thats what you call an electric motor Same thing that is in those cheap ebay deals. I do know what you mean, the potential is there just not economical for a car to power

[boosted_K2]

QUOTE (Uppitycracker @ Aug 1, 2003 - 12:58 AM)

QUOTE (K2_Celica @ Jul 31, 2003 - 10:30 PM) wow lots of mis-information. A ..there are plenty of other non automotive applications where turbos are run off of electric, belt, phneumatic, or hydrolic power sources.... C) A turbo most certainly does not block exhaust gases. what happens is when there is too much build up of exhaust pressure in the exhaust side of the turbine, the wastegate will open and allow the gases to bypass the turbo system completely....... also turbo systems enjoy a bit of back pressure, this is due to the fact that to spool up the exhaust turbine, it isnt the exhaust gas actually flowing through the turbine that spools the turbo, it is in fact the exhaust gases expanding from heat that causes the wheel to spool..... A, ya i knew that there are other applications for turbine forced induction, I was just speaking in an auto-motive sense. C, I knew that, Ive seen diagrams of turbo systems and what not, and the second thing about back pressure is something I have been wondering about, thanks. I just think there is no sense in an electronic "turbo", atleast in a car, the exhaust driven turbo is such a genius method of power gain, its just so logical, Im suprised every car isnt turboed, it makes sense to me, but I guess it comes with a certain amount of maintanance responsability.

i agree with you entirely. the only thing i dont view the same is just that every engine should be turboed. which i agree that if you are making some kind of performance oriented car, yes, forced induction is definatly a great idea for all to have. however from an economical standpoint, cars that are meant for getting from point A to point B really have no need for a turbo. theres less that can go wrong, and less stress on a NA motor. but im sure you were speaking from a performance standpoint anyways, not including those buying based on economy.

[97sccelica]

there are companies that sell single, twin, and triple electric turbo setups for about $400 for the twin setup.

they boost all of 2psi, and about 80% of the added power is lost due to the alternator working harder.

electric turbo- as of now, capable of around 2psi with at most 20% efficiency

turbo charger- capable of lots of boost, with 60%-70% efficiency if the turbo application is setup properly.

yes, they work, but at this point in time, they are a waste

[KAMiX]

/me bows to Uppitycracker

sorry for any misinformation! But I'm sure in the future we will see some sort of forced induction other than super/turbo chargers. All I was doing was theorising from a hazy memory and a half drunk mind

ps. rephrase

QUOTE

no blockages in your exhaust.

into no turbo lag!

This post has been edited by kamixZR: Aug 1, 2003 - 7:29 AM

[BlackSTX]

QUOTE (kamixZR @ Aug 1, 2003 - 4:41 AM)

But I'm sure in the future we will see some sort of forced induction other than super/turbo chargers.

I think variable valve timing has been meant to be newest technology in automotive performance, at least from the automakers perspectives.

[x_itchy_b_x]

can we buy a DC to AC converter. then take a 5HP shop vacuum and put the blow end into the intake manifold, and the sucking end to the front bumper like a CAI.... NAH im just playing around. but think of the possibilities.

[BlackSTX]

QUOTE (x_itchy_b_x @ Aug 1, 2003 - 7:29 AM)

can we buy a DC to AC converter. then take a 5HP shop vacuum and put the blow end into the intake manifold, and the sucking end to the front bumper like a CAI.... NAH im just playing around. but think of the possibilities.

I think then you would have the E-RAM Electric Supercharger for a whole 5-15 horsepower gain!

[boosted_K2]

if someone can correctly map out the twin charger that will be the next big thing.

[HyperDeathKill]

The electric turbos are little more than a fan that blows into your intake. Although I did see a dyno where someone gained like 10 horse.

[FallenHero]

They might have gained 10hp, but it was LOW in the low RPM band. You see,when the engine gets up in the rpm band, it needs more air than an electric turbo could dream of producing, this is when the engine spins it faster than the electric motor.

The way I was thinking of doing an alectric charger of sorts:

Problem 1: power use

Easy, use a capacitor or two similar to that used in an air conditioner or even an audio system. It won't tax your alternator, and won't draw from your battery,so you get the power basically for free.

problem 2: when to use it.

You could only use it in low rpm's. it's really useless in high rpm's and will just restrict air flow if anything. This is why a larger 3-4" ducted fan would be used.

Problem 3: Why in the hell would I want one?

I think, when this idea is perfected, it will be used in place of nitrous or even with nitrous on cars with large hard-to-spool turbos as a kind of low RPM kick.

As I said, it's possible, but as of now, not economical.

ALTHOUGH, have you guys heard of the new hydrolic turbo system that people have been experementing with?

Jon

[kuya1284]

Read this thread if you haven't done so already:

http://celica.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?u...ic;f=2;t=005925

[bonzaisushi]

ya so basicly what i said in my first post....... CRAP

[KAMiX]

I haven't read that link yet, but what I am trying to get across is that these days forced induction components are MECHANICALLY run. A super charger is belt driven, while a turbo is spooled up by your exhaust. I think some sort of electronically controlled turbocharger (will probably be called something else) is inevitable. The problem is that at the moment manufacturers are trying to perfect old techniques instead of coming up with new ones.

And Blackstx yes variable valve timing is new, but its hardly forced induction!