sub placing, help? Options

[CelicaST_CALI]

ok well i know a few of yall here know a lot about this,i am planning on a audio system in teh trunk theres a pic of wat iw as thinking,is a 12" sub to big?I jsut wnat some input from u guyz on wat im thinking of.also is dynamat a good product,wat does it really do?Thanks!!(yes its a ****ty paint job but i havent used paint in like a year)





these are the subs im looking at:
Kicker CompVR 07CVR122
12" subwoofer with dual 2-ohm voice coils
12" subwoofer with dual 2-ohm voice coils
» injection-molded polypropylene cone
» ribbed Santoprene rubber surround
» suitable for marine use
» power handling: 50-400 watts RMS (200 watts per coil)
» 800 watts peak power handling
» frequency response: 25-500 Hz
» sensitivity: 86.7 dB
» top-mount depth: 6-1/4"
» sealed box volume: 1.0-4.6 cu. ft.
» ported box volume: 1.75-2.25 cu. ft.



ideas,comments,concerns?

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Sep 4, 2007 - 9:37 PM

[95CelicaST]

hmmmm... I think two 12's would be overkill. You'll rattle so much.. Dynamat won't even save you!

[CelicaST_CALI]

that painted picture in teh back of ur car btw^^,well,so 2 10s,well is there really a sound differnce with 12"s and 10"s?,im going to 10" and no lower in size ,idk ill measure and PS some stuff,im just dreamingg....WHat do u think of teh design?

[95CelicaST]

I don't know... I mean it kind of defeats the purpose of the trunk. You can't drop the back seats and store things, and you can't really put much in front of them without worring about it smacking into the subs. Maybe do what Coomer did, but repeat it on the other side as well, so that you can have your two 10's and keep most functionality of the trunk. You know?

[mneal2_92788]

personnaly i like my tens, and i am sure 12's will work wonderfully. why dont you do a side mount of the subs, so you can still have room for your trunk. if i had a cear pic of your trunk id do you a p/s or paint of some subs in teh side. g/l. i like the paint version of your box, i think it comes out too far tho.

my 2 cents

[goferris]

12s will give you a deeper bass but i don't think you will need more than one. i have a single 10 that sounds pretty good especially when i listen to rap or anything with a lot of bas and yet i still have most of my trunk space still available. if you plan on using your car as a DD then just stick to one sub. if it's a weekend warrior put as many subs as you like. as for me until i get a DD other then the celi i am going to just stick with my single 10.

[applejax]

Subs in a trunk can be difficult indeed.



What are your goals? How much trunk space are you willing to sacrifice? Have you determined how much air space you want to give the subs? Is your priority for it to "look like teh nizzle", or are you focusing on sound quality?



A 12 won't necessarily go deeper than a 10, but it will more more air. Two tens will more more air than one twelve. Two twelves will move more air still.



Based on the research that I've seen, you may want to put the sub against the rear, firing into the rear. This is where the reflections are closest in phase to the sound itself (again, based on reliable testing sources. I haven't measured this personally). This introduces a set of problems, though. Your trunk is going to rattle like crazy. It will be very easy for the bass to get boomy (although this may not be a problem for you. It would be for me.)



If your goals facilitate this, you may want to design a simple box (at least for testing purposes) whose dimensions allow you to flip it around to different spots in your trunk.



[Ditching my Dynamat ramblings. There is already information on the topic posted elsewhere that is quite good.]

This post has been edited by applejax: Sep 5, 2007 - 2:25 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

i want a system that really hits hard,i listen to jsut about everything but more rap/hip hop than anything else..I want a system that also looks good not jsut a simple square or recangular box..but i also need some trunk space...im a highschool student so its not like i realy use this car to haul **** everywhere,im tehinking of taking out teh back seat and making like some kinda storage area,but i want a system that hits hard and nice,that looks cool,and offers some trunk space..thanks for teh help

[KB-2]

i ahve a 15' sub in my trunk....it deff dont look pretty....but uhhh as far as "bumpin" goes.....i win.

you pretty much go deaf if ur in the front seats....and rear....ohh god. i keep ear plugs in the car actually for when i get real crazy.

anyway.....if you wanna bump....and you wanna get kickers....instead of buying 2 subs....one sub gets the job done just fine...having 2 dosent make it louder really....just a few decibles increase..and it divides the amps power to 2 subs....as opposed to all the power going into one making it sound 2x as good and loud....id reccomend ONE really good sub...if you wnat pure bass, get a kicker L7 square shape 12' those pound.

12's give a deeper bass tone, and make the car rumble or rattle more, than a 10...if you listen to rap and what not id deff say get a 12' for sure. anything over that is excessive...but i wanted ridiclious bass, and plus i cna jsut turn it down so it sounds quiter...no biggie



but it all starts with your amp. GET A GOOD AMP. spend more money to get a good amp, its crucial, the amp makes the sub.

if im you...


id get

one 12' L7 square cone sub
hifonics amp that fits the subs needs
a ported box that also fits the subs dimensions
and a capacitor

all that and you should still ahve a decent amount of trunk space, but also be able to bump quite well.

if you got any questions you can pm me..im pretty good with this stuff

[CelicaST_CALI]

ok well,i dont really like teh looks of teh square subs for some reason,ut i want 2 subs cause i think it would look better unless i can find some way to make 1 sub look awsome..any ideas?

[applejax]

I'd have to disagree with most of what KB-2 said, but most importantly I'd say



The enclosure is at least 85% of your bass.



I've heard mediocre subs on cheap (but decent) amps sound great because they were in well designed enclosures. If your enclosure isn't done well, it doesn't matter how good your amp is.



First, I'd say you need to decide if you want a sealed or ported box, and figure out the airspace based on the subs you've chosen. Then at least you'll have an idea of how much room the enclosure is going to take up.



I personally see two options for you that rise to the top of the list based on what you've expressed you want:



Put the sub against the back of the car as previously discussed. I've heard it suggested that if you want to take this approach with a ported enclosure to face the ports forward. Design enclosure as your creativity and skills allow.



If you are taking the rear seats out, then we're talking a whole new ballgame. You may want to examine using that area for the subs (and this doesn't have to be mutually exclusive of your storage areas, either!) This could offer some opportunities to both match your interior as well as add the flair you want - this could jazz up your interior rather than simply having "cool subs in your trunk". Actually facing the subs into the cabin will also keep more of the sound inside the car (less rattles and boom outside the car, more sound pressure inside the car) which may or may not be what you want.



Just throwing a couple of thoughts out there. Search the 'net for pictures. I'm sure you could find more than enough visual stimulation to give you some ideas if needed.

This post has been edited by applejax: Sep 6, 2007 - 8:02 AM

[94celigts]

ill need to take a pic of a custom box i made for my celica although it is a hatch and not like yours but maybe itll give you an idea ill try and do it tonight.

[GriffGirl]

ill need to take a pic of a custom box i made for my celica although it is a hatch and not like yours but maybe itll give you an idea ill try and do it tonight.

I've got two 10s in the back of my hatch, with enclosed boxes and facing the rear of the car, and it's more than adequate. This is a change from my last car, a 92 4Runner with one 12 (also enclosed). The 12 sounded great in the 4Runner, but really IMO is too big and just awkward for the hatch of my Celica. I think, in a perfect world where money isn't an issue, go with two low-pro 10s and either custom make or have them made two stealth enclosures for the subs. It'll look great, sound great, and still allow you some trunk space. The enclosure is just as important as the amplifier though, if you skimp on either, you won't get the results you're looking for.

I've seen pre-fabricated stealth enclosures on eBay and on the internet. Google it and you'll get some results. You might also try Crutchfield.com, if they don't have it, they may be able to point you in the right direction.

[CelicaST_CALI]

ya well,i have heard having teh subs in teh cabin with u is bad,it doesnt sound right,also i have an idea about like making a box like teh one in teh painted picture jsut fliped,like a V with teh open side of the V toward the engine,and the bottom of the V toward teh rear,idk its all ideas.

[applejax]

ya well,i have heard having teh subs in teh cabin with u is bad,it doesnt sound right,also

You heard wrong.

[tim86]

hey applejax... you mentioned its best to place your subs/ported box facing forward... so would this mean that facing them towards the back isnt louder because ive heard mixed opinions? i might have to try the other way soon

[applejax]

I may have been misunderstood.



How you place a box and face your subs can be subjective - moving your sub box around and facing it in different ways will change your sound.



tim86;



The conversation was based on trunk challenges. So, we will assume you are working with a trunk and not a hatch.



Based on the way you wrote your statement, I'd infer that your subs and your port face the same direction.



Therefore, we can say that that facing your subwoofer and port towards the back of the car with the box pushed as close to the rear of the trunk as possible will cause the incident and reflected waves to be closely in phase with each other, minimizing cancellation.

[CelicaST_CALI]

[CelicaST_CALI]

BUMP,new image,wat yall think?

[kerosene]

bah, hope your all dynamatted...by the looks of your trunk, its not... u need some sort of sound barrier, or it will sound like a cheap 80's car with 12"'s pounding...

[95CelicaST]

If your dynamat statement is directed towards the yellow car I would go ahead and shoot you down. That car has more dynamat than I thought possible.

[kerosene]

the trunk part that pops up doesnt look dynamated..that will cause lots of rattle

[CelicaST_CALI]

lol,ya teh car is the yelli celi not mine,and i really dont wanna dyna mat cause teh weight,but there are 10"s not 12"s and how do u think this would sound?

[kerosene]

it would be bloody loud, not to mention that the amp has to be powerfull enough to power 2 subs, or get 2 mono's... but then you need class D for speakers.... from what ive heard with this car (installing) 1 12" is more than plenty if there is sound barrier... also look for some quality MTX's are decent... remember what you put in is what you get

[CelicaST_CALI]

ya 2 10" kickers

[95CelicaST]

The trunk lid is not dynamated... and it doesn't rattle.

[kerosene]

The trunk lid is not dynamated... and it doesn't rattle.

it WILL rattle.... the pressure from the subs will make the trunk become ajar... and it all will rattle...unless you never use it....

also realize that this will be heavy... what you are looking at 2x10" subs, 2 amps, and case for subs.... that will add up quickly

[95CelicaST]

it WILL rattle.... the pressure from the subs will make the trunk become ajar... and it all will rattle...unless you never use it....

I have a sub back there. I use it on a regular basis. No rattle.

[dustinkemp]

If you wanting to bump....Hard, then your gonna need ALL of your trunk, Because like everyone has said, you need a box with alot of airspace for the subs.

I have had both, sealed and ported, I personally like ported better only because I did stereo comps. and it was loud. But for everyday driving, I couldn't turn it up. I mean i can, but....you sound like all the people with "bump,bump,bump" and no "vocals". Sealed boxes give clean tight bass and let you hear all your vocals.

Amps can go either way, Obviously the more power you have, the louder. But don't buy ebay or generic carp that put a "3000 watt" label on it and your only getting 200 watts. Go with a major brand (kicker,alpine,kenwood,etc.) Personally, I'm a HUGE Kicker fan. I love their products (beside the price) lol.

Speakers are the same way, Don't cheap out. You will end up paying in the long run. Again people put ridiculously large wattage number on them and they aren't. Another thing to watch for is the RMS rating on the speakers. That is ACTUAL wattage it can handle. Try to stay below that number.

Placement....Thats all a matter of preference. I've had it both ways, both ways rattle, it has been metered both ways, with the subs facing the trunk, it was 2 db louder, so if that helps ya any. I have heard, but never tried, facing upwards is the best, but like I said never tried. I know if you lay the seats down when your bumpin, it is louder,but will also be seen.

Sorry if any of this has been repeated, I just kinda skimmed over what has been said. Sorry to anyone I offended, I am just going by personal experience. I know I'm not an expert at this, but I try to learn as much as possible.

And if you have any other questions, just ask and I will try and help out!

Dustin

[Sinyk]

When I ran comps in my old hatchback, subs facing up towards the glass sounded the loudest, but I found subs facing the back sounded the best for music overall. I listen to a lot of rock and metal with kick drums and they sounded the cleanest when the subs faced backwards.

[95CelicaST]

Subs + double bass pedal action = sex

[kerosene]

Subs + double bass pedal action = girlfreind with a ****ing headache, and bitching that the TECHNO IS TOO LOUD!

[shvdcelica]

I have a hatchback with a 15inch kicker L7 solobaric and its facing the up towards the glass and it really pounds hard. If you like i can post some pics?[size=6]

[Valo666]

i wouldnt do any thing more then 1 10" or 1 12". I spent maybe $400 in total on my sound system including my 10, 450watt amp, my 6.5"s front and rear and my tweeters up front, and my car sounds just as good or better then my roomates BMW that he spent $3000 worth of JL audio stuff in. He is running 3 JL 8" subs in a box, and his car is honestly the most anoying thing to ride in. If you just want the bass sound and actually enjoy your music, i would say 1 good quality 10 or 12 with a good amp...but if you wanna b heard from a mile away, then go with somethin bigger. I have a single 10" pioneer in my trunk hooked up to a 450Watt sony amp in a sealed box, and it delivers enough punch. Even in my gf's coupe, we have an 8" Basstube and that provides enough of a punch too for listening and enjoying music. I guess it all depends on what type of music you listen to and how much bass you actually wanna be making. I personaly like it when i can hear every note in the song as compaired to just the thuds of the subs and hearing the ocational high note or vocal.

EDIT: mine..i know its in a hatch, but it delivers enough of a kick

i know..messy trunk

This post has been edited by Valo666: Oct 7, 2007 - 2:58 PM