cams are here, webcams - pics and dyno pics yay Options

[Batman722]

pics









I got the 294 grind, which is an overall preformance grind. The other grind they do (the 101) is more for non-stock internals, lower compression, ect., not really what is best for my situation.

the plan

First I need to dyno the GT for the control. Then install, re-shim the valves, new valve seals since we're in there, and then dyno again with some tuning. Then compare the results.

From what I understand (on a 5th gen 5s) this should fatten my power band pretty nice. The mr2 guys get about +20 hp to the wheels with these. Now if I can get at least that with these, it should make a big difference when I turbo...

comments are welcome.

This post has been edited by Batman722: Dec 1, 2007 - 11:05 PM

[Deezz_Nuttz]

very nice, keep us posted

[Rayme]

Is there a link to those MR2 guy's dyno with those cams? 20 Hp to the wheel sounds almost too good to be true without exhaust, header etc...
These are interesting

This post has been edited by Rayme: Sep 29, 2007 - 9:09 AM

[Black2na]

dustin those looks sexy has all get out nice job i can't wait to see the dyno from them..also check your PM i sent something to you

[blckcelica95]

where you get the them ,and how much? becuase i could really use the "101" style on my car

[jcbass7]

awesome dustin, those look great, where are you going to dyno it?

[x_itchy_b_x]

wow, this will be cool. new power band woo woo!

[Defgeph]

Very nice. I can't wait to see the results.

[presure2]

hehe SWEEEET D cant wait to get these installed and see the results !!!
then its onto BOOOOOOST!!!!!!!!

[alltracman78]

Dustin, get some assembly lube before you put those in.

NOT engine oil.
Or Lucas stuff.
Or heavy oil.

Engine assy lube. It's moly based, and will not squeeze out the way oil will.
Will help keep those cam lobes undamaged for break in.

Federal Mogul makes some good stuff.

[Batman722]

here's a side by side comparison with stock cams and the webcams weld and regrind







The lobes are fatter and less pointy as before, allowing more air in and out with each duration.

Rayme, check the stickies on mr2oc in the n/a forum, also, I already have a header, cat back exhaust, and a neo for some light tuning. The more I read about them the more I think I should get 20ish to the wheels from stock.

[lagos]

mad props for being a pioneer with these.

[x_itchy_b_x]

less lift, more duration. sweet.

[Defgeph]

Thats freaking sweet man. I can't wait to see this running.

[6strngs]

less lift, more duration. sweet.

how does less lift help? I would think more lift, or at least the same amount, would be better for flowing air in. I suppose less lift would be easier on the valve train... would that make for a higher revving engine?

[NuclearHappineS]

it looks like more lift, look at the base circle on the web cam, it's smaller/narrower

lift is going to be the difference between the distance on both sides of the cam... so if you grind the base circle down, you need to use larger shims, and that will make the lift higher without having to extend the cam lobe's other side that much ...

Yeah I wanted to say moly lube/assembly lube when you put those in, but alltracman beat me to it...

enjoy the cams !!!

good luck, and with a turbo it will make a difference. if it does make 20hp N/A then that means that say at 12psi when boosted you will be making the same power as someone running 15psi on an uncammed 5sfe with the same turbo.

oh also, if you have some money, this is a good time to buy a 2jzge cam gear (only need 1) and get it machined to fit the end of the stock 5sfe cam...

this way you can install it with the cams at the same time...and when you go to redyno you can optimize your power band (i'm guessing optimum will be around 3-5* of retard) that is if the web cam is timed exactly where the stock cam is...

[alltracman78]

less lift, more duration. sweet.

how does less lift help? I would think more lift, or at least the same amount, would be better for flowing air in. I suppose less lift would be easier on the valve train... would that make for a higher revving engine?

Less lift would make for lower RPMs, not higher.

Less lift means less air.
The higher the RPMs the more critical each bit of air becomes, because things move so fast.

Dustin, I was wondering about the base circle.....

Do you have a micrometer so you can measure the 2?

If they did make it smaller, that's going to make the job a bit harder.....

[94celicadude]

wow..looks sweet! let us know if these are worth it because i have always been afraid to pioneer these on my 5s...good luck

[x_itchy_b_x]

I assumed it was less lift only because I didnt realize they required larger shims. I see now though, the base circle is definitely smaller.

[bdog_v]

Any updates???

[Batman722]

we're installing on Nov 10-11ish. I am going to need new shims to finish it up so I would say it will be 100% complete by Nov 14 at the latest. I'm going to get some dyno time in before then after the install, I just need to coordinate the dates with the rest of the team.

[Batman722]

installed. After a couple of set backs with some minor issues it is complete.

They are amazing !!! These cams make a huge difference in the way the car accelerates. My power band is way to the right more (higher PRMs). The car PULLS unitl redline, no dropoff !!! I can feel the torque hold better in the higher RPMs too. These are dabomb.com, no jive.

next is the dyno. Hopefully this week we can get in, I will keep you all posted with results.

[jcbass7]

Nice work T-bone!

i might have to come down during my turkey day break and get a ride!

[jdg371]

Can't wait for the dyno!

[jcbass7]

oh yea... pics of the install!?!? I need a new desktop

[6strngs]

mmm, I want some on my car. I wonder if I'd break 250 WHP with these, and water/methanol injection, at 10 PSI. hmm

[presure2]

mmm, I want some on my car. I wonder if I'd break 250 WHP with these, and water/methanol injection, at 10 PSI. hmm

not gonna happen on a ct-26 @ 10psi.....maybe 15...and race gas..MAYBE.

ill tell ya tho...its AMAZING the diffrence the cams make.

the car now has power up to and PAST redline, it changes the way the whole car feels.

good job D!
JDM GUY
FTW!

[lagos]

cant wait for the dyno results. post up some install pics.

[Bitter]

hmm wonder how they play with the corolla header?

[bdog_v]

Very interesting I can't wait to see the specs. However I am curious where your mileage was at before and how it has changed with the new cams, (considering you drive it without mashing the happy pedal!!) If mileage hasn't changed dramatically I might order them.... Let us know how there working!!! Awesome...

[Batman722]

with a 7a, well we'll see in a few weeks

as for mileage, about the same but now I drive faster because I tend to hit higher RPMs because they're usefull now !!

calling tomorrow (Manny) to set up dyno time for this Saturday (the 1st)

[Batman722]

ok here's the pics.



the cams





and my nose



now the real info



now my motor has 156K miles on it and my compression was low, but consistant.

here's a comparison was another 5s, 1998 51K miles on it



and some #s info



and the INFO

my 5s topped out at 123whp and 126ft/lbs of torque.

on the 1998 stock 5s (intake) at 4700 RPMs it doesn't make any more power, it drops hp like a rock. My 1995 156K 5s continues to make hp. I peaked out close to redline and CONTINUED TO MAKE POWER until then. So at redline (about 6000 RPMs) I had about 123hp while the stock had The stock 5s 103hp. As for torque, the 98 drops off at 4700 and mine continued hold out longer. I had 110ft/lbs of torque and the stock 98 had 92ft/lbs.

The bottom line is I didn't dyno my car before the cams were installed so I don't know exactly were I'm starting from. From the research I've done they seem to average around 105-110hp to the wheels. If my motor was in peak condition like the 98 then I have gained about 10hp to the wheels. The important thing here is my car now holds the power later in the RPM band and where any other stock 5s drops off, my car continues to make power, right to redline.

now when I turbo...

This post has been edited by Batman722: Dec 1, 2007 - 11:36 PM

[Defgeph]

AWESOME. Thats great stuff right there.

[lagos]

VERY interesting results, Dustin! The fuel curve changed a lot from the stock one. It looks like you could reclaim some of that low end in the 3-4.5k range by removing some fuel with the safc. the 4.5-6 rage is definitely flowing a lot more air then before, and making really nice power. I think you are ready to smoke some silvertops.

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 1, 2007 - 11:48 PM

[Batman722]

yea Art for that run I had no corrections until about 4500, I corrected a little more later and things are more inline now.

[Rusty]

hmm, how much work you done on it (intake & filter, full exhaust, cams)
pretty good for the miles its done, nice and smooth

how much are you losing through the gearbox?
I lose 10kw, but I still hold 147HP(with just an air filter)

good to compare when you turbo it.

[6strngs]

how does the low end feel now though? it looks like you actually lost torque, and the low end power is what makes the car fun to drive IMO.

[Hanyo]

wow the power difference after 4000 rpm is impressive.
good job batman!

[stetsonaw]

very awesome... so did you send your cams off to get modified, or where did you get them? i'm looking for a set (maybe) for my 3rd gen 3s.

[presure2]

how does the low end feel now though? it looks like you actually lost torque, and the low end power is what makes the car fun to drive IMO.

trust me, this car is 100X more fun to drive than a stock cammed 5s.

you also have to take into account that his engine has 3X the miles on it, and has ALOT more wear, which makes for lower overall #s.

[Kadett]

hmm, how much work you done on it (intake & filter, full exhaust, cams)
pretty good for the miles its done, nice and smooth

how much are you losing through the gearbox?
I lose 10kw, but I still hold 147HP(with just an air filter)

good to compare when you turbo it.

Little bit unfair to compare a 3S-GE to a 5S-FE

[presure2]

ok here's the pics.



the cams





and my nose



now the real info



now my motor has 156K miles on it and my compression was low, but consistant.

here's a comparison was another 5s, 1998 51K miles on it



and some #s info



and the INFO

my 5s topped out at 123whp and 126ft/lbs of torque.

on the 1998 stock 5s (intake) at 4700 RPMs it doesn't make any more power, it drops hp like a rock. My 1995 156K 5s continues to make hp. I peaked out close to redline and CONTINUED TO MAKE POWER until then. So at redline (about 6000 RPMs) I had about 123hp while the stock had The stock 5s 103hp. As for torque, the 98 drops off at 4700 and mine continued hold out longer. I had 110ft/lbs of torque and the stock 98 had 92ft/lbs.

The bottom line is I didn't dyno my car before the cams were installed so I don't know exactly were I'm starting from. From the research I've done they seem to average around 105-110hp to the wheels. If my motor was in peak condition like the 98 then I have gained about 10hp to the wheels. The important thing here is my car now holds the power later in the RPM band and where any other stock 5s drops off, my car continues to make power, right to redline.

now when I turbo...

dustin, heres a better view for you and the guys.
this is my run #8, when the car was fully warmed up and heated like yours was.
the red line is a stock 98 5sfe with a injen short ram intake, the blue is dustins 95 with cams.



again guys, i really cant emphisise how much of a diffrence these cams made in his powerband.
webcams did a very good job on them.
these cams are perfect for th n/a 5s. keeps 99% of the low end we love, and makes a HUGE diffrence up top, where the 5s normally falls on its face.
now that we've found at least one place that can do cams for the 5s sucsessfully, im working on getting a set from another company that can do them as well, only the ones im having done will be done with the 5sfte in mind.
if that goes well, we "may" be able to set up a group buy on them, both for n/a and turbo 5s'

Attached image(s)

 

[Rayme]

thats great, not much top HP gain but you gain more usable power in the end.

who needs vtec?

[lagos]

thats great, not much top HP gain but you gain more usable power in the end.

who needs vtec?

He gained 20hp. Thats A LOT for an NA 4cly motor.

[jcbass7]

nice stuff dustin!

notice the difference at 6k, almost 25 hp. thats awesome

[Rayme]

thats great, not much top HP gain but you gain more usable power in the end.

who needs vtec?

He gained 20hp. Thats A LOT for an NA 4cly motor.

heyy I know I say top (or peak), not insulting the guy!

[Rusty]

Little bit unfair to compare a 3S-GE to a 5S-FE

Ohh I meant this dyno and compare when he turbo's it

[6strngs]

dustin, heres a better view for you and the guys.
this is my run #8, when the car was fully warmed up and heated like yours was.
the red line is a stock 98 5sfe with a injen short ram intake, the blue is dustins 95 with cams.



again guys, i really cant emphisise how much of a diffrence these cams made in his powerband.
webcams did a very good job on them.
these cams are perfect for th n/a 5s. keeps 99% of the low end we love, and makes a HUGE diffrence up top, where the 5s normally falls on its face.
now that we've found at least one place that can do cams for the 5s sucsessfully, im working on getting a set from another company that can do them as well, only the ones im having done will be done with the 5sfte in mind.
if that goes well, we "may" be able to set up a group buy on them, both for n/a and turbo 5s'

ok, that dyno chart makes it look a lot better. And I'm def. interested in some cams, the only thing stopping me from the web cams is the price. they are something like $650 aren't they?

[jcbass7]

650 for an addition to the power curve like that, if i had my coupe still (5s) id be installing those right now!

[Batman722]

^^ that's a great comparison there Manny. That does show a clearer view of the curves and the shift/gians in power. From 4000rpms on, I have any 5s beat hands down.

[x_itchy_b_x]

turn the boost up! nice gains man. thats some good power for an NA 5s.

[presure2]

6strings:
yup, ~ 650 for the pair.
in comparison, a set of cams for the 3s goes for just about the same price.
i working with another company to have a set done for the turbo 5s, they should be ~ 200$ cheaper.

[jesterwr217]

are there any for the 7a?

[LewFX]

hurley is getting some for her 7a

[stetsonaw]

presure2, you say there are some for a 3s. where can i get them, for a good price?

[6strngs]

6strings:
yup, ~ 650 for the pair.
in comparison, a set of cams for the 3s goes for just about the same price.
i working with another company to have a set done for the turbo 5s, they should be ~ 200$ cheaper.

the other set you are working on, are they hardwelded like the webcams or reground? I've heard that TED components cams only cost around $200 for both cams, it's a regrind though and you have to use thicker shims.

[lagos]

presure2, you say there are some for a 3s. where can i get them, for a good price?

hks makes them. you can get them from ebay, ats racing, etc...

[Rusty]

what HP gain are we talking with cams in a 3S-GE? simular line veriation

[presure2]

6strings:
yup, ~ 650 for the pair.
in comparison, a set of cams for the 3s goes for just about the same price.
i working with another company to have a set done for the turbo 5s, they should be ~ 200$ cheaper.

the other set you are working on, are they hardwelded like the webcams or reground? I've heard that TED components cams only cost around $200 for both cams, it's a regrind though and you have to use thicker shims.

you need to use larger shims with the webcams as well.
the colt cams are reground, and geoff includes oversized shims.

[elvasoshexai]

so how do these performance cams affect driveability?

[presure2]

so how do these performance cams affect driveability?

its drives just like stock. just faster. this is by far the biggest single improvement ive seen on any 5sfe that ive seen, other than turbo, of course.

[Batman722]

so how do these performance cams affect driveability?

its drives just like stock. just faster. this is by far the biggest single improvement ive seen on any 5sfe that ive seen, other than turbo, of course.

agreed. They are awesome.

[frosty]

Very nice, I really wish you would have gotten a baseline of your motor, but hey, if I had the new cams laying around I wouldn't have hessitated either . And using manny's as comparison would be a pretty close accuracy as for the avg. 5s. Very nice.

Not so much of an increase in overall, but GOD at 6krpms! a fattened band of over 20+ hp and torque! No dout this would make for a sweet ride!


(and for those interested in these but are concerned with mpg, it would only get lower because you would play more with those higher rpms and have a reason to stomp on the gas pedal! )


Again, very nice

This post has been edited by frosty: Dec 11, 2007 - 11:12 AM

[yodaman87]

6strings:
yup, ~ 650 for the pair.
in comparison, a set of cams for the 3s goes for just about the same price.
i working with another company to have a set done for the turbo 5s, they should be ~ 200$ cheaper.

the other set you are working on, are they hardwelded like the webcams or reground? I've heard that TED components cams only cost around $200 for both cams, it's a regrind though and you have to use thicker shims.

you need to use larger shims with the webcams as well.
the colt cams are reground, and geoff includes oversized shims.

ive sent my cams out to goeff at colt cams

[MyFreeCamry]

[/quote]
ive sent my cams out to goeff at colt cams
[/quote]

How did your cams turn out from colt, and how much did it cost ya????

Any problems outta the webcams yet????

What this I read about taking one supra cam and machining it to fit on the 5s for an adjustable cam gear????Someone please explain this a little bit more PLEASE.

[6strngs]

any news on the colt cams for 5sfte's?

[bccentaur3]

X2, you guys never got back to us about the cams from Colt.

[presure2]

sorry guys, i havent had the cash for them.

we know for a fact that they WILL be an improvment over the stockers, just a matter of how much and where.

[6strngs]

I just looked at web cams site, they now list 7 different grinds for the 5sfe! at the bottom of the page it says it was last updated april 1st, so I know this is new. what would be optimum for the turbo 5s? I know it needs more top end, and I'd be willing to sacrifice a little low end for it, but nothing too aggressive. I understand what the numbers mean, but I don't really understand how they affect the powerband in what ways.

[bccentaur3]

I just feel that if you don't intend on upgrading your internals the 294 regrinds would be fine. btw Dustin or Manny, with the regrinds installed is does the car idle a little rough? Like a bit more agrressive in the sound?

O yeah, let us know about the group buy please.

[6G96GT]

[/quote]
ive sent my cams out to goeff at colt cams
[/quote]

What are you paying from colt cams to regrind your cams and to what? 294? 264? Do you have to get any Head work or upgrade the internals?

[presure2]

I just feel that if you don't intend on upgrading your internals the 294 regrinds would be fine. btw Dustin or Manny, with the regrinds installed is does the car idle a little rough? Like a bit more agrressive in the sound?

O yeah, let us know about the group buy please.

i didnt notice much of a diffrence at all at idle, although d could answer better, he drives the car every day..lol

[bccentaur3]

Hey Dustin get back to us on how the car idles.

[Batman722]

Very nice, I really wish you would have gotten a baseline of your motor, but hey, if I had the new cams laying around I wouldn't have hessitated either . And using manny's as comparison would be a pretty close accuracy as for the avg. 5s. Very nice.

Not so much of an increase in overall, but GOD at 6krpms! a fattened band of over 20+ hp and torque! No dout this would make for a sweet ride!

thanks frosty
I wish I did get to the dyno before the instal but time and $ were an issue then.
being able to spin the wheels at 5K rpms is nice

I just feel that if you don't intend on upgrading your internals the 294 regrinds would be fine. btw Dustin or Manny, with the regrinds installed is does the car idle a little rough? Like a bit more agrressive in the sound?

the car idles fine, no issues. I did have to replace my 13 year old 02 sensor after the install. With my wideband I noticed m 02 wasn't responding as quickly as it was before the install, so that was a quick fix.

the other talk about a rough idle is due to the different cams (grinds). There are more agrressive grinds that would give you even more top end power/torque and you lose a lot down low as a result. Those would give a rough idle and their really not made for a daily driver.

once again, my idle is perfect, no issues

[darthripley]

O yeah, let us know about the group buy please.

i'm also interested in the group buy for my 5sfe camry.
i just need to hit up some junkyards to get an extra set of cams that can be sent in.

[Euphoria]

god I'd love to have this done but how could I get it done when I'm in Australia?

[RavenAegis45]

they definitely look pretty nice. but I hear altering the cams on 5S-FE's hurts the low end and requires a re-mapping of the ECU?

[CelicaGTS94]

ok so what all is needed to get these cams up and running, did you replace anything that is needed in the head to acommodate these cams? lifters? valves? ect? I have looked into Webcams and almost ordered a set, but want o know more about what is needed to get the best result and make the car still be reliable.

This post has been edited by CelicaGTS94: Sep 19, 2008 - 9:47 AM

[Kwanza26]

they definitely look pretty nice. but I hear altering the cams on 5S-FE's hurts the low end and requires a re-mapping of the ECU?

Depends on the cams... these won't affect low-end that much... and even if they did... I would trade low-end torque for some more mid-high-range power.

[Kwanza26]

ok so what all is needed to get these cams up and running, did you replace anything that is needed in the head to acommodate these cams? lifters? valves? ect? I have looked into Webcams and almost ordered a set, but want o know more about what is needed to get the best result and make the car still be reliable.

No. You replace the cams, and the gaskets/seals and such since you're already in there. These cams are not big enough to require a change in lifters. Sometimes the cams do cause the lifters to tick, but whether or not you want to fix that is a matter of taste. Again, the cams aren't big enough to cause a major annoyance. Valves would fall under a performance mod and be much more expensive to do... so no... they're not really related to this modification.