Tuneups- STAY away from Bosch, sparkplugs especially Options

[soulshadow]

Guys I just wanted to say that if you ever go to the auto part store and buy any spark plugs or filters and ETC.
Stay away from Bosch products (Minus the O2 sensor since we can't find anything else)

The worst spark Plugs you can ever, EVER buy are BOSCH platinums with the dumb looking 2,3,4 tips.
These are terrible, suck a55 and will bog down your engine like no tomorrow especially when going up hills and high end reviving.

I would explain my theory on these crappy a55 spark plugs but Don't want to bored you guys. So i will save my explai-nation.

BOSCH sucks at spark-plugs.

CRAP ----->>>>

This post has been edited by soulshadow: Oct 6, 2007 - 10:35 PM

[LewFX]

always use ngk or denso

[xs94st]

i agree..i pulled those bastards outta my 7afe

NGK ftw

[easternpiro1]

I was always told NGK... ANYTHING ELSE is UNCIVILIZIED...

bosch =****

[MaskedMan]

Yeah for some reason Toyota cars run really bad with Bosch plugs. I can't explain it, but they just dont like to be together haha.

[laff09]

They produce too high of a temperature spark.

[cHinaman727]

which ngk's do i get for a 5sfe? 94 btw

[playr158]

They produce too high of a temperature spark.

thats why you buy the correct heat ranged spark plug......par example BRK6e.....and brk7e.

NGK or bust

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 7, 2007 - 10:27 AM

[LewFX]

bosch is for american cars anyways, always trust japanese parts

[Rayme]

I once bought bosch wipers...was crap..seems like bosch is a relatively crappy brand.

[alltracman78]

Guys I just wanted to say that if you ever go to the auto part store and buy any spark plugs or filters and ETC.
Stay away from Bosch products (Minus the O2 sensor since we can't find anything else)

Um, the O2 Denso makes an O2 sensor for your car.
I'm sure NGK does as well......

bosch is for american cars anyways, always trust japanese parts

Bosch is German.

[rjbibeau]

i think anything german is crap...including their beer

[GriffGirl]

For those NGK plugs, which material? There's quite a difference in price between the standard material and the Iridium. Plus, there's like 5 different versions of the Standard plug alone. And does paying 4 bucks a piece more really make that much of a difference in performance? Would it even matter on a 7A-FE?

[6strngs]

For those NGK plugs, which material? There's quite a difference in price between the standard material and the Iridium. Plus, there's like 5 different versions of the Standard plug alone. And does paying 4 bucks a piece more really make that much of a difference in performance? Would it even matter on a 7A-FE?

I tried iridiums, they really didn't make any difference at all. I think we're supposed to get platinum? I just know the 5sfe takes BKR6E plugs

[frosty]

hmmm... not saying anyone is wrong but I'm using some bosch plugs now and I haven't experianced any problem with them... (no bogging down or heat troubles)

Explain your theory please, you got me curious now.

[stephen_lee]

i Agree with Frosty.
i have the 4+ plugs and havent really noticed anything negative..
please explain your theory? i'm very curious also.

[TRD_GT]

Whats better? NGK Plugs or the Denso Iridiums,coz i have the denso's in my car..looking to get NGKs now since everyones been hyping them up so much..but don't really know how much of a difference they will make..

cheers lads..

[soulshadow]

Ok So BOSCH has 4 tips right? ->> I will call these Ground Tips

Ordinary plugs that were first created had only 1 Ground Tip.

Well the Theory why BOSCH performs so bad in HIGH performance engines / Import engines is that the 4 Ground tips actually block out most of the gas and air that is shooting up the cylinders when the piston is going up.

PLUS the way the Iridium tip of the BOSCH plug is designed is that it’s actually enclosed within a barrier that is heat resistant and electrical insulated to prevent accidental grounding. (Hence the white barrier surrounding on the tiny metal spark tip).
This spark tip is so small that it has a very hard time in transferring the electrical currents to the 4 ground points (if 1 couldn’t do it why 4?). Not only is the Plug easily fouled by a high concentration of GAS and AIR mixture. It is trapped in between the 4 tips making it harder to spark, as GAS and AIR is moving. In a 1 Tip design GAS and Air is trapped only by 1 side so therefore it can escape the to other sides making it easier to ignite the cylinder.

The 4 ground tips provide multiple signals to ground which weakens the charge of electricity because the spike from the spark tip would flow either to 1, 2 ,3 or all 4 ground tips which lessons the power to combust an cylinder. --> This results in a weak spark.
It’s really Quality not Quantity. A single tip would produce a powerful spike and ignite the cylinder. There would only be 1 way to get to ground and all that energy must take that route.
Its as simple as choosing 4 paths to take and fighitng over it which goes to the same place or 1 path which forces everyone to the place.

This is just my Theory and It hasn’t even been tested yet, but a simulation or something would prove it quite right since BOSCH sucks anyway.

Diagrams and Photos soon to come when Im free in time.

Whats better? NGK Plugs or the Denso Iridiums,coz i have the denso's in my car..looking to get NGKs now since everyones been hyping them up so much..but don't really know how much of a difference they will make..

cheers lads..

I like the Densos they look rather aggressive with the super sharp pointy Iridium tip. Overall I haven't gotten into much problems with the Densos nor the NGK's so anything would be fine as long as its these two.

Denso's do have Japanese writing all over them....Intresting

[creis]

I use bosch plugs on my impreza, had them just under a year, and there running fine no issues, or performance loss. recomended by my nabor who's a ASE certified tech at a local shop. could just be a toyota thing. but seeings as the chamber is lit once the air and fuel has been compressed I find it hard to belive that the extra grounds "block" most of it. also I dont think the spark will ground to all 4 of the tips, rather then the 1 thats closest, its not going to split the jump to 4 tips, that would be something like lightning making a Y mid air to 2 trees at the same time, but thats just my understanding.

but a simulation or something would prove it quite right since BOSCH sucks anyway

that would be a personal opinion rather then fact.

This post has been edited by creis: Oct 9, 2007 - 12:00 AM

[frosty]

Alright, I was going to pick apart your reply soulshadow, but then midway I felt like it would be rude.

It is an interesting theory, but please, don't start out saying they are pure crap, that no one should use them, and that they will cause horrible performance. (especially if all your facts are just your thoughts without evidence.)

Now, I'm not saying they are the best, but bosch makes good working plugs. Just because you like densos pointy-tip plugs doesn't mean they are better, it's just your preference.

I'm not trying to start an argument because such one would be pointless and childish, just give other plug companys a chance, even if it isn't japanese.

[phonex98]

its not all wrong... he's very right with the spark flowing to 1,2,3,4 tips. this is exactly why we gap spark plugs... some engines need a larger spark, some smaller. I suspect what happens in your engine is that only one of the electrodes will actually have the spark gap to it.

[playr158]

i just want to say....lol all spark plug electrodes have white stuff surrounding them its called porcelain

and i like others here have used bosch plugs platinum, platinum +2, +3, +4 what ever...i've used NGK plugs
never had issues with any of them.

theories are just theories after all.....if you really want to prove something and give some substance......find a scientific way to test this theory document it and find the results

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 9, 2007 - 10:00 AM

[Komail]

Someone should go run a dyno chart haha

[Redline08]

dyno chart? to prove a spark plug dispute? a waste of money imo lol

if i could pull for free then i might try it but i highly doubt you would get anything more than 1 or maybeee 2hp difference

[slvr_celica_GT_8...]

i have the platuim 2s in mine

[soulshadow]

Guys help yourself into picking apart my theory.

If you have something that you think is better feel free to express it. This is after all a forum.

This post has been edited by soulshadow: Oct 9, 2007 - 11:30 PM

[GriffGirl]

NGK does make O2 sensors, they're called NTK.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/oxyg...nsors/index.asp

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Oct 25, 2007 - 3:14 PM

[DEATH]

FYI - Denso makes NGK [and Champion for that matter].
Don't believe it? Call NGK USA and ask their Tech guys. The only diff is the label on the porcelin and the box.
Otherwise I agree - NGK/Denso do seem to work best in our engines and I have had problems with the Bosch +4's in the past on a 3S-GTE engine.

Oh yeah - sorry for bringing this thread back from the dead but I was looking for the thread that discussed Iridium vs Copper in a Turbo motor.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jan 11, 2008 - 9:27 AM

[laff09]

They produce too high of a temperature spark.

thats why you buy the correct heat ranged spark plug......par example BRK6e.....and brk7e.

Let me reiterate, the "stock" bosch replacement plugs...the ones that show up in every pep boys/napa/etc computer as replacements for 5sfe or 7afe puts out a much hotter spark than our engines/ignitions are designed for.

[Rusty]

I'm off to get my TRD Iridiums, now...lol (this was a silly idea:P)

what about 'champion'? they're sort of simular with NGK?

[thespacepanda]

They are the same. Havok just bought a new set of Denso plugs for his 5S from the DEALERSHIP with Toyota plastered all over the box. In my opinion, and I could be wrong here, anything that is genuine toyota parts is the best way to go. I had stock plugs in my 7A and they were NGK. I replaced them with NGK Iridiums and wires and I am running an extra 4-6 miles per gallon increase in fuel efficiency. Next step is sea-foam....

[woatherekilla]

Ok ok guys.. I jump on the band wagon of bosh plugs being a tottal waste of time and money... I'm a bit of a parts geek, as well as a member of management for a parts store, and am here to deliver not only my experience, but also the feedback of MANY customers.... in most cars the +4's run "ok"... any body telling u they gained anything more than a smoother idle from them is either high, or had crappy plugs to begin... the spark only jumps to 1... yes 1 electrode at a time as electricity takes the path of least resistance... the whole crappy idle thing might possibly be due to a weak coil as these plugs have impedance (a.k.a. resistance) up and out the ass... the main reasons why us part stores push these plugs are
1) high profit margin
2) they cost more so our sales numbers go up
3) people love how long they last and think we are looking out for wats best for them
4)many times there is some sort of commision for the selling the +4's

As far as NGK or Denso... most of their products are identicle by design... don't be too picky between the two... and as far as iridium goes... it lasts longer than platinum... but 4 u performance guys ur wasting ur money cuz these plugs have way more resistance than platinum n ur better off with standard, or regular platinum plugs...

in short, the more money the plug, the longer the life expectancy on a factory tune

[Rusty]

had a mix up at toyota (so I only got 1 plug instead of 4)

so when I get them i'll install my Denso iridiums and my TRD leads.

[Zelstin]

I put bosch +4's in my 7a and had positive results. The old plugs (I think NGK) had a small bit of fouling but not much. The new plugs made it idle and rev smoother (including high rpm) without any heat issues. My THEORY is that the spark in the +4's only grounds to one tip which would keep it from fouling longer than a regular plug but since I do not have any proof and haven't tested it i'm not going to make a claim that might be false . I can only speak for my st which doesn't have a high performance engine but I'm sure Bosch plugs aren't the absolute worst you can buy. Do the first 6gc diesel swap and you won't have to worry about it.

[hongkongnerdboy]

i was wondering why they worked good for like the first week.... -__-

[Celica-Boy]

I've got some new Bosch +4's in my ST202 3SGE at the moment, but if i buy some brand new regular platinum plugs or standard one's, will I notice a difference, and where and what would the difference be???

This post has been edited by Celica-Boy: Jan 12, 2008 - 2:19 PM

[Rusty]

anyone know the gap?

[6strngs]

anyone know the gap?

0.044 on a 5sfe. you probably have a 3sge though, I don't know the gap on that one off the top of my head though, sorry.

[Rusty]

tsk tsk, not off the top of your head?

[dagreat1]

i just picked up some bosch plugs... so they aren't good for my 7afe?

[thespacepanda]

Gaps for usdm:

5sfe (gt) - 1.1mm
7afe (st) - 0.8mm

Toyota owners manual.

[Nemises]

bosch isint bad. Its just not for jap cars. German plugs go on German cars.