Bremo Brakes..on 6g Options

[lubu]

I found these on eBay, but are they bolt-on or do I need to modify them to fit...btw does the price sounds right??

bremo 1

bremo 2

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 14, 2007 - 2:45 AM

[Kwanza26]

I found these on eBay, but are they bolt-on or do I need to modify them to fit...btw does the price sounds right??

bremo 1

bremo 2

What would imply they'd be bolt on? For one... you need bigger rotors assuming the calipers do bolt up, which I doubt they will without a custom bracket.

[lubu]

The second one do come with rotors. Hrms, maybe its harder then I thought.

[doGGy]

been there done that... Tryed to fit Evo8 brakes on my ST and on my SSIII.... Not even close without major constructing... Even if you do make spacers, you will need to source brake disks with right ET to fit brake calipers... Too much hastle - honestly, and i would not like to drive a car with somthing thats been modified / and not tested...

For SS suspension people - get GT4 brakes / disks - this is straight forward swap. So Mac users - i think GT4 brakes would requer less modifications to fit then these EVo brembos...

[lubu]

Thanks for the reply doGGy, I figured that it would be harda$$ and potentially dangerous too. 205 caplipers it is.

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 14, 2007 - 10:06 AM

[Kadett]

Tried the ST205 brakes, but went for OEM size Brembo blanks and Ferodo DS2500 brake pads. To much hustle for the ST205 brakes to fit.

But Sthen (from Italy) has used them on his mac suspension. Maybe he can give you some info about it.

[lubu]

Okay I was wondering if anyone on 6gc.net did the 205 conversion brakes on their 204. Coz Im thinking of upgrading but Im unsure abt the procedures. I'll have the calipers and the rotors, I was told that I need some custome brackets made. Any inputs are greatly appreciated and pictures will be splendid.

[Kadett]

Okay I was wondering if anyone on 6gc.net did the 205 conversion brakes on their 204. Coz Im thinking of upgrading but Im unsure abt the procedures. I'll have the calipers and the rotors, I was told that I need some custome brackets made. Any inputs are greatly appreciated and pictures will be splendid.

But Sthen (from Italy) has used them on his mac suspension. Maybe he can give you some info about it.

[lubu]

I noticed that but he hasnt been active for like 2 months..

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 18, 2007 - 11:54 AM

[Kadett]

I notice that but he hasnt been active for like 2 months..

Try PMíng or E-mail him. Because I dont know anyone else who has done it on a mac suspension.

[lubu]

THanks Kadett, much appreciated. Hope he returns my email.

[lubu]

Great news:

I did a bit of research and I came across these pictures.

According to azian_advanced's measurement the distance from the two ends of the calipers bolt holes is 142 but if you look closely the distance from the centres bolt holes is only 130mm.


Pic courtesy of azian_advanced

Now I've found a fews pics regarding to the 205 calipers' dimensions and susprisingly the distance between the bolt-holes is the same (for the fronts at least).




Pics courtesy of da_horse from toymods.net

So no customs brackets need to be made, and thats to me is very good news. I suspect that if you have the full set (rotors+calipers) then its not as hard as it sounds.

Im on to this like fly on ...... !

[Kadett]

I could have told you that the distance between the mounting points are the same. Its a distance used on many Toyota's, f.e. the MR2 has the same distance.

The problem is that the offset does not match and that the caliper wont fit over the brake disc. So you would have to grind down the 315mm disc to lets say 280-290mm to make it work (only using washers to fill the gap for the offset. But I dont think thats a good solution.

The problem then is that you have to extend the caliper with a bracket. But the distance between the mounting points on the hub and where the points would be for the correct fitment is to low. So the distance between the holes would be dangerously close. Or about overlapping each other.

So you have to 'rotate' the ST205 caliper so it goes a bit up and thus having save enough room between the mountingholes on the hub and where the ST205 Caliper should be extended to. Without a spare hub (i dont have any and no Celica's in the junkyard) its impossible to measure from under the car.

This post has been edited by Kadett: Nov 19, 2007 - 7:56 AM

[azian_advanced]

found these pics online..




this bracket isn't necessary, just get a longer bolt and mount it in reverse:





and you need to do quite a few things to get the front st205 calipers to fit...
a) longer wheel studs
b) longer brake line
c) shave off 1mm off the caliper mounting locations to bring them out forward (so the disc will clear the bottom ball joint)
d) the disc itself will need a 4mm spacer to center itself with the caliper
e) the discs will need to be machined down to atleast 297mm in diameter
f) longer caliper mounting bolts

for the rears, it should be a direct swap using st205 caliper, discs, and pads.

these are the steps i found that were used on fitting the st205 brakes on an st185.



more info here:
link 1
link 2

[lubu]

Thanks for the inputs guys, yeah I was wondering if the steps are the same for 6gc..Oh well guess we'll find out how hard it really is.

BTW no one else on the forum has done this beside Sthen??

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 19, 2007 - 9:30 AM

[Kadett]

@azian_advanced:

Those links and specs are designed for a ST185. SveNRG (fellow Dutch 6th Gen owner) had ST185 discs/and calipers on his AT200. And those were grind down.So if a ST185 owner needs to grind down the ST205 discs to 297mm, a ST202/ST204/AT200 owner would need to grind the 205 discs down about 1-1.5cm further then 297mm.

And for the rears:

They will never fit unless you remove the handbrake assembly, even then I dont know if its bolt on. The ST/GT handbrake assembly (handbrakepads etc etc) is larger then that of a ST205. Difference is about 2 cm's in diameter.

This post has been edited by Kadett: Nov 19, 2007 - 9:50 AM

[lubu]

Kadett that sounds logical, but there are two versions of 185 brakes, one is the single piston with larger rotor and the other is twin pistons with smaller rotor... If he installed the larger single piston grinding down the diameter of the rotor makes sense.

EDIT: Acutally ur right both of the 185 use the same rotor diameter (288)..my bad

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 19, 2007 - 9:57 AM

[lubu]

Here is a list of the diameters and dimensions of some celica rotors:


This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 19, 2007 - 10:08 AM

[Kadett]

I had a whole ST205 wreck at my disposal. Still have the front rotors/calipers laying around. So I tested everything I could about swapping the brakes. I would have kept the rear brake parts but didn't want to fuss with a hydraulic handbrake or somesorts.

And my front calipers need total overhauling = 400 Euro in parts alone

[I3arruka]

I know you've been answed, but looking from the picutres they seem pretty beat up, why not just buy a kit from somewhere a little more reputible? When it comes the brakes its better to be safe then sorry.

[lubu]

nvm

This post has been edited by lubu: Nov 21, 2007 - 8:11 PM

[presure2]

have you guys even looked at the price of new GT-4 brake disks?
theyre REDICULUSLY expensive.
not worth the work IMO.

[Kadett]

have you guys even looked at the price of new GT-4 brake disks?
theyre REDICULUSLY expensive.
not worth the work IMO.

Have you ever driven or ride along with someone who has them on a ST/GT? Guess not, I did with SveNRG (AT200 3rd gen swap+ SS+GT4 front brakes). Its a MASSIVE improvement over stock.

Its the closest thing you can get as a 'Big Brake Kit'. If you already have the calipers then I would say go for the install and get the rotors.

But I dont know what you would call expensive. They cost around 150 euro per side. Dont think its that expensive.

[doGGy]

have you guys even looked at the price of new GT-4 brake disks?
theyre REDICULUSLY expensive.
not worth the work IMO.

Time from time GT4 calipers pop up on ebay for somthing like 400$. I eben saw whole setup go for 500$, you just have to keep and eye on the Ebay

GT4 brakes in compare with normal ST / GT / SS3 brakes - are like a day / night difference.

[presure2]

have you guys even looked at the price of new GT-4 brake disks?
theyre REDICULUSLY expensive.
not worth the work IMO.

Have you ever driven or ride along with someone who has them on a ST/GT? Guess not, I did with SveNRG (AT200 3rd gen swap+ SS+GT4 front brakes). Its a MASSIVE improvement over stock.

Its the closest thing you can get as a 'Big Brake Kit'. If you already have the calipers then I would say go for the install and get the rotors.

But I dont know what you would call expensive. They cost around 150 euro per side. Dont think its that expensive.

150 euro may be cheap for you, but that = 220USD for us over here.
440$ for 2 brake disks is rediculously expensive as i said, and that dont include shipping.

an improvment im sure, but for us here in the USA, i dont see it as cost effective.

[Kadett]

Hey Manny,

Just remember this the next time you fill up your gas tank. US = 40 USD vs Europe = 120 USD

Yeah you maybe have to pay some more for JDM/Euro parts but hey, your not driving fuel @ 50 cents per mile.

[lubu]

Just got a complete set of rotors and calipers for all 4 wheels..IMO i think its a must upgrade for any 3s swapper. Shorter braking distance means better chance of preventing a crash.

[Kadett]

Are you planning on a Hydraulic hand/E brake?? Would be interesting to see!

[lubu]

Are you planning on a Hydraulic hand/E brake?? Would be interesting to see!

Like this: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/Pro...p;pcode=MSD402A

Maybe sometimes down the road...On a side note, with hydraulic handbrake dont you lose pressure if its parked for more than a few hours?

[Kwanza26]

Have you ever driven or ride along with someone who has them on a ST/GT? Guess not, I did with SveNRG (AT200 3rd gen swap+ SS+GT4 front brakes). Its a MASSIVE improvement over stock.

Its the closest thing you can get as a 'Big Brake Kit'. If you already have the calipers then I would say go for the install and get the rotors.

Unless you race the car everyday... it's really just a VISUAL modification. Who cares if the car has awesome brakes when all you use it for is stop/go traffic and driving around town? I bet I'll stop the same as you in traffic from 50mph to 20mph...

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Have you ever driven or ride along with someone who has them on a ST/GT? Guess not, I did with SveNRG (AT200 3rd gen swap+ SS+GT4 front brakes). Its a MASSIVE improvement over stock.

Its the closest thing you can get as a 'Big Brake Kit'. If you already have the calipers then I would say go for the install and get the rotors.

Unless you race the car everyday... it's really just a VISUAL modification. Who cares if the car has awesome brakes when all you use it for is stop/go traffic and driving around town? I bet I'll stop the same as you in traffic from 50mph to 20mph...

I think thats generalizing things quite a bit, Kwanza. I don't think that too many of us with swaps or turbo just putt around town like a grandma. At least I don't anyway.

With my 3rd gen 3SGTE, as well as any Celica with a significant power upgrade , you can feel that the brakes are at the threshold of their effectiveness. I have IRotors D/S on all four corners with Hawk autocross compound brake pads, and they still just BARELY cut it as far as I'm concerned.

If you look at the balance of a swapped USDM Celica compared to a factory tuned configuration like a STi or Evo, the Celica needs a great suspension tune, sticky tires, and more powerful brakes to have the same sort of balance that those cars achieve. With comparable thrust to both, a swapped Celica just won't stop like it should when it only has single-piston calipers from the factory.


It awesome to see some answers regarding using the ST205 brakes....thats really good knowledge for anybody who wants to make their car really stop well.

[playr158]

Evo and STi are also significantly heavier

Celica = 2,580 lbs. curb weight
STi = 3,263lbs
evo = 3,263lbs

thus an added reason for bigger brakes + the image of the car and product partnership.

D/S rotors have proven to not be the best combination for performance.
Just slotted will give better performance IMO, more braking surface, sufficient venting.

a big brake upgrade won't prove anything on the street...its been proven. You just won't get the temperatures required to make it an effective setup.

Braided lines, Quality slotted rotors, good fluid (motul/ATE), good (hawk HPS, ferodo DS) and a set of good tires will get you more than sufficient road braking power.

most of all completely flushing brake fluid frequently (1 time a year, 2 years max) is something 99% of people over look when doing their braking system.

as well as with these older cars ensuring your master cylinder is in good condition i essential.

my opinions rest with Kwanza on this

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 5, 2007 - 3:04 PM

[Kadett]

Why would I need to race my car everyday to fit a bigger/stronger brakes? Indeed in normal (city) traffic on normal speeds the effect would be minimal. But I intend to go to the Ring next year and want to go to Circuit Zandvoort or TT Assen a few times a year. Maybe I will go on the track or not. But its a reassurance that you have enough stopping power and not having faded brakes after 1 lap.

And common, normal street driving. NOBODY who swaps there engine does it to drive at the 60-70mph mark. Everyone wants to try out the power and when you need to stop it would be good to have uprated brakes.

Still about the ST205 brakes, I have not fitted them on don't intend to do so untill I find a good company to make them fit. I dont trust my own life in my own (fabricated) hands when it comes to making caliper brackets

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

From my experiences, upgrading to a MUCH more capable set of brakes like the ST205 OEM setup couldn't be a bad thing at all. Single piston brakes simply don't stop you nearly as quick as a 4-piston when it counts, regardless of what brands you throw at them.

For street purposes, sure.....stock GT brakes with a stock 3S swap may suit you. But if you plan on pushing a Celica at all when its paired up with a powerful engine and great suspension, the weakest link in the setup with be the single pot OEM brakes and the limited surface area of the smaller rotors. My personal interests with my setup is for a daily-driven, fully track capable car with as few weaknesses as physically possible....not strictly grocery-getter status in which stock brakes would suit me just fine.

The STi and EVO are great examples of this type of configuration - a track ready car that excels in every aspect of performance, but still very streetable and reliable. They push more weight than a Celica, but the functionality of their brake setups, as well as the GT-Four's, for the purpose they were designed for is undeniable.


Slapping a grossly oversized brake kit for "bling" factor isn't what I'm endorsing. I'm endorsing the idea of using ST205 brake components to make a Celica stop the way it should when all other aspects of performance have been drasticly improved.


My opinions rest with myself (EDIT- and Kadett) on this one.

This post has been edited by Silver94CelicaOwner: Dec 5, 2007 - 4:08 PM

[lubu]

The 205 brakes do make a noticable different in stopping distance....even for street driving!! I drove my friend's car (205) and my swapped car and I can deff feel the different in the 205 brakes, you dont need to push the pedal as hard to stop. When I slammed the pedal the car literally "froze" (edit:testing was done at 60-100km, dry road with stock "brakes") .

I dont drive like grannies and certainly I dont intend to to the swap and tune the hell out of it just to cruise around at 60km. My daily driving to uni already required me to do 100km -120km so these brakes will help incase of a sudden stop.

It is deff not a "VISUAL modification". I just dont have cash just laying around to slap on these babies knowing they do jack-all for me, if that was the case Id rather buy one of those covers from eBay that cost 5 bucks.

People who think 204 brakes=205 brakes for any purpose then well..think again. The gain is not that awe-inpiring but its there, and gets better if you get slotted rotors, endless SS pads....etc.

This post has been edited by lubu: Dec 6, 2007 - 3:18 AM

[lubu]

One thurday noon with alot of unleaded fuel, brushes and spare time..
Pads seem to be near new, Tokico anyone???

I noticed one of the rubber that surrounds the piston is ripped, does anyone knows the part # for it??
....BTW try to avoid pull the rubber out, getting the snap-ring back around the piston is f**king ducking hard...

[playr158]

you shouldn't be using gas to clean or anywhere near a brake caliper....it eats all those seals

[OOBE]

I don't think that too many of us with swaps or turbo just putt around town like a grandma. At least I don't anyway.

With my 3rd gen 3SGTE, as well as any Celica with a significant power upgrade , you can feel that the

That made me laugh. I imagined one of those cars from Looney Tunes.

[BloodyStupidDave...]

I've been following this thread with interest. I find that while the brakes on my 6gc are good - I can come to a stop very quickly, I do rather have to stamp on them to make that happen. From what others have said, it sounds like the GT4 factory brakes offer a sharper, more positive feel.

Given that the GT4 is more powerful, but not hugely more powerful, than the GT with 3SGE engine, one would assume that the GT4 brakes on a GT with 3SGE would be a fairly good match (that is, getting the brakes up to temperature would be similar between the two). However, due to the differing suspensions, a straight swap is difficult. So to extrapolate, it would seem that any brakes that are close in specification to the GT4 brakes but are a more straight-forward fit would benefit the GT with 3SGE engine.

Now I know that a lot of people don't have 3SGE engines, but just bear with me for the moment as I don't want to complicate things too early.

So my questions are: are there any flaws in my logic; and if I wanted to upgrade my brakes to something close to the factory GT4 specification but choosing aftermarket parts that are more of a straightforward install than the actual GT4 parts - what are my options?

[lubu]

I find that while the brakes on my 6gc are good - I can come to a stop very quickly, I do rather have to stamp on them to make that happen.

Im asumming you mean "cant"??

With any other brake kits I would think that you'll run into problems like mounting, offsets...etc..etc.

But dont you wanna keep it all Toyota, more importantly celica?

[BloodyStupidDave...]

I find that while the brakes on my 6gc are good - I can come to a stop very quickly, I do rather have to stamp on them to make that happen.

Im asumming you mean "cant"??

Actually. I did mean "can". I can stop quickly, but kinda have to stomp on the break - almost an emergency stop - to make that happen. I know it isn't comparing like with like, but on many small hot hatches the brakes are very "sensitive" - just pressing the brake lightly and you are pretty much thrown through the windscreen

With any other brake kits I would think that you'll run into problems like mounting, offsets...etc..etc.

But dont you wanna keep it all Toyota, more importantly celica?

Not if that means getting custom brackets manufactured, parts skimmed by 1/4" and so on as some people have suggested. I think I just want a 'kit' that is easy to install that makes the brakes feel more responsive, less spongy.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Dec 7, 2007 - 8:29 AM

[playr158]

no i think his wording is correct.

what he is saying is that his car can stop fairly quickly but it takes more effort on his part to make it happen...ie pushing hard on the pedal.

Davey when was the last time you bleed your brakes?
do you have SS brake lines?
what type of pads are you using?
what rotors?