How high do you guys rev your 5SFE? Options

[Projek_01]

I am new to the 5SFE and I noticed this motor has very low end power. What range of RPM could I be reving to still keep my motor reliable? I am afriad to rev to 6k RPM because this motor has such a long stroke.

[808celica]

i take mines on reliable driviing day around 3K if not 2.5K when i want to drive aggressive i take it to 5K or more depending cuz i get a really UGLY dip around 5k+

[bccentaur3]

I never go past 5,000 rpm. You don't get squat after that. You end up losing power. Thats why I wish I had those web cams in.

[808celica]

lolz same here. where can i find a nice set??????

[DEATH]

Headers, full exhaust and intake made a noticable diff in that dip on my last 6gc. Changed the whole powerband. Still wasn't fast or anything but did smooth out the powerband. Expect some low RPM torque loss tho.

[bccentaur3]

Then its not worth it. I would rather swap in a 3sgte then just add bolt ons to my 5s. The reason why I fell in love with my gt is because of the low end torque. Before my 94 I owned an 02 civic with bolt-ons and an mr2 spyder. No torque in any of them. Then I came across the celica and it was love at first drive.

[95st-celica]

i'll tell you what....long story short 2 of my boys died in an accident right after christmas...when we burried them a buch of us stayed back and reved our engines next to their grave for them....i didnt care so i held mine to the floor bouncin it off the rev limiter for a good 10 seconds..im replacin my engine anyway...plus i was in the depressed mood where i just didnt give a f uck...before i did this my idle was around 1200-1300....i noticed when i got home my car was running a lot smoother and ideling consistently at 1000...now i dont know if reving it blew a lot of the $hit out of the exhaust and what not...but i noticed the car responds differently now..i mean it could just be me because i would never drive my car like this becasue i would be afraid of blowing it up (nor do i recomend anyone doing this) but since i have a motor comming i shift at redline when i jump on it now and it seems like its got a little more umph) could be all in my head but who knows...just thoguht id give my 2 cents...by the way i have a 7a not a 5s

[Penkka]

I never go past 5,000 rpm. You don't get squat after that. You end up losing power. Thats why I wish I had those web cams in.

Okay, i´ve got a 3S-GE, but it revs to 7250rpm.
Is the 5SFE really that much of a torgue machine, so it onlly revs low but has a great torque?


EDIT:
the torgue is better than in 3SGE!

3S-GE 94-99 |||| 5S-FE 93-01
bore:86.0 mm stroke:86.0 mm |||| bore: 87.1 mm stroke: 90.9
compr.:10.0:1 displ.:1998 cc ||||| compr.: 9.5:1 displ.: 2162cc
Power: 137 kW@7000 rpm |||||||135 hp (101 kW)@5400 rpm
Torque:192 Nm@4800 rpm |||||145 ft·lbf (196 Nm)@4400 rpm
Celica GT (ST202) |||| Celica ST204

This post has been edited by Penkka: Jan 17, 2008 - 6:02 PM

[mrgrape]

wait is it bad to rev ur 5sfe past 6????
cuz i usually rev
and my daily driving is always 4.5 rpm

[thespacepanda]

It's never bad to rev your engine unless you go deep into redline and leave it there. The 5s and the 3s are both performance engines. They're built to rev high and ride hard. The worst thing for an engine is to change it up regularly. Cars with multiple drivers don't have nearly the lifespan of a 1 driver car. If you're gonna redline it every time you shift, redline it every time. If you're gonna shift at 4 every time, keep doing it. But using a car's power to its full potential does not hurt it, just let's it live.

[jason]

i believe from dyno sheets the best shift point is a bit below 5,500 and above 5,400 for a gt 5s with stock setup

daily driving, engine hits max torque around like 3,000 i think? so shifting at 4k daily with some peppy acceleration isint all that bad of an idea =)

[Penkka]

The 5s and the 3s are both performance engines. They're built to rev high and ride hard.

Actually..

to open the motors name, 3S-GE means:

Third generation of the S-series engine (straight 4 with a cast ron block and an alloy head) G means Performance wide-angle DOHC and the E means injection.

Then is the 5S-FE.

fifth generation of the S-series, E=injection but then. The F. F means narrow angle DOHC to make it more economical.


Sry mates.

[thespacepanda]

i believe from dyno sheets the best shift point is a bit below 5,500 and above 5,400 for a gt 5s with stock setup

daily driving, engine hits max torque around like 3,000 i think? so shifting at 4k daily with some peppy acceleration isint all that bad of an idea =)

The 7A hits max torque at just below 3K. The 5S doesn't hit max torque until 4,400. For gas efficiency, shifting at 4 would be advisable.

[GriffGirl]

Lately my 7A hits max torque when parked outside while I'm in here at work.

[Penkka]

Lately my 7A hits max torque when parked outside while I'm in here at work.

You´re at work :|

My clock says its 1:42 Am <3

and school starts at 8:00 Id better go andget some sleep! C ya!

[GriffGirl]

3:49 in the afternoon here on the other side of the world

[thespacepanda]

Yeah, well it's almost 6pm here, and I'm about to go have lunch! What's wrong with Texas?!

[GriffGirl]

Wacky texans!

[xs94st]

hmm..i drive a 7a and i dont push the overdrive in most of the time cuz its more responsive in traffic than with it on..plus i see that i use more gas with it on..i duno wtf is up with that, but anyways..is it bad that i dont push the overdrive button when going over 60? my rev is at around 3000-3500 at that speed and at about 4200-4500 when going 75-80 on the freeway..i dont wanna jack the thread, but it does have to do with revving.

-x

[aspen]

I usually only rev it to about 3k, but if I'm redlining it, I'll go all the way. I like how the engine sounds close to redline.


On a maybe different note, how hard are the Webcams to put in? Do you have to redo the timing belt?

[bccentaur3]

Well you'd have to uninstall plenty of things to get to the cams, thats including the timing belt.

[Batman722]

my dyno sheet compared to a stock 5s.


I can shift up to redline with my cams (webcams) and I gain more hp and maintain a substantialy higher amount of torque than a normal 5s (about 15hp and 20ft lbs of torque more).
On a normal 5s after 5k rpms the hp has already peaked and is going down down and the torque has been dropping like a rock since 4300 rpms. Not me anymore...hehe

You would have to remove the timing belt to replace the cams and since you're in there you might as well replace the T belt, tensioners, and the water pump too. You also have to re-shim the valves to the acceptable clearances due to the different size lobes of the cams.

This post has been edited by Batman722: Jan 18, 2008 - 12:22 AM

[Celicav]

my dyno sheet compared to a stock 5s.


I can shift up to redline with my cams (webcams) and I gain more hp and maintain a substantialy higher amount of torque than a normal 5s (about 15hp and 20ft lbs of torque more).
On a normal 5s after 5k rpms the hp has already peaked and is going down down and the torque has been dropping like a rock since 4300 rpms. Not me anymore...hehe

You would have to remove the timing belt to replace the cams and since you're in there you might as well replace the T belt, tensioners, and the water pump too. You also have to re-shim the valves to the acceptable clearances due to the different size lobes of the cams.

Anything else required or recommended when you do the webcams? Does the car have to be tuned in any way? I am seriously entertaining doing this. I may PM you later about it.

[Kadett]

@Penka:

Your figures of the 3S-GE are from the 4th gen probably. The 3rd gen has 129 KW @7000 and 186NM of torque@4800. Also the CR is 10.3:1 not 10.0:1.

Anyways of course the 5S-FE makes more torque then the 3S-GE. 200cc more displacement and the 3S-GE is a HIGH HP engine not a low torque engine. Thats why the 2zz-fe only makes 17xnm of torque but makes more power then the 3S-GE.

[Penkka]

@Penkka:
Your figures of the 3S-GE are from the 4th gen probably. The 3rd gen has 129 KW @7000 and 186NM of torque@4800. Also the CR is 10.3:1 not 10.0:1.

Yeah youre right, my bad.

[playr158]

till vtech kicks in....

[presure2]

my dyno sheet compared to a stock 5s.


I can shift up to redline with my cams (webcams) and I gain more hp and maintain a substantialy higher amount of torque than a normal 5s (about 15hp and 20ft lbs of torque more).
On a normal 5s after 5k rpms the hp has already peaked and is going down down and the torque has been dropping like a rock since 4300 rpms. Not me anymore...hehe

You would have to remove the timing belt to replace the cams and since you're in there you might as well replace the T belt, tensioners, and the water pump too. You also have to re-shim the valves to the acceptable clearances due to the different size lobes of the cams.

Anything else required or recommended when you do the webcams? Does the car have to be tuned in any way? I am seriously entertaining doing this. I may PM you later about it.

nothing other than re-shimming is "required" to do the cams.
in theory, you could just loosen the t-belt tensioner, (after marking the cam gear and belt for proper alignment afterward) pull out the cams and replace, re-tension the belt, reshim, and off you go.
everything else dustin added is all a good idea, tho, since most of our cars will have over 100K+ on them, most dont know the last time the t-belt or any of that stuff was done, and trust me, the least amount of times you want to work on that side of the motor is where you want to be. lol
if you go that route, i would also suggest doing the cam seal as well.

[TRD11]

i have a good theory .... if the motor can not get air ,,, its dead in the water right ????? .. then y did toyota put a small throttle body on the 5s engine ,,,,, i think if i put a 70mm throttle body on it will pull till 6300 .... yea i no thats not the only thing butt it will def help ......it will give you 2-5 more hp ....every day im beating it off the rev limiter and on 7psi no problems

This post has been edited by TRD11: Jan 10, 2012 - 7:56 PM

[Neon90424]

Im thinking that would actually slow down the air...

[dakotahwyatt]

Im thinking that would actually slow down the air...

You would be getting more dense air in my mind

[Neon90424]

only way to change the density would be lowering temperature...

[dakotahwyatt]

only way to change the density would be lowering temperature...

That's rite I had a stupid thought lol it would at to v/e?

[Neon90424]

from what I've read having a larger throttlebody it allows more air in but you have to have alot of air flowing to fill the pressure drop, its like sucking air through a straw or a 3 inch pipe you lose all air velocity

[dakotahwyatt]

from what I've read having a larger throttlebody it allows more air in but you have to have alot of air flowing to fill the pressure drop, its like sucking air through a straw or a 3 inch pipe you lose all air velocity

Makes sense

[stephen_lee]

lager TB will give you...

rougher throttle response (less linear, little pedal push = most power, and very little difference after 50% throttle)
loss of lower end torque as the air speed is slowed down
probably not much gain in the high RPM where it flows the most air.

I have faith in 90% of Toyota engineering decisions. It was probably matched to the engine for a reason.