7th gen brake system !, pics are up ! Options

[Culpable04]

I ordered a pair of 7th gen front calipers and today finally took the time to test fit one of them, the brake line is exactly the same, the brake bolts into the same exact location, but the bolts on the GTS are longer so we have to use the bolts from the ST, obviously we need the rotors and pads from the 7th gen ( just in case someone dare to ask ) .

I know that there have been a lot of discussions about this, and they all said that they fit but no one tried it, so just in case someone else is wondering if they fit, YES they do,

I'll take pictures when I get everything ( rotors, brake lines, pads ) to show the fitment.

I ordered EBC slotted rotors, green stuff brake pads, SS brake lines and motul brake fluid. looking at one or two week to install everything.


if you want any specific pictures, let me know so I'll take them during installation.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 21, 2008 - 6:46 PM

[rjbibeau]

what's the advantage?

[Culpable04]

bigger brake system for cheap, I'm not sure on the size of the ST rotors, but the GTS are 10.8", by the looks ST rotors are ~ 9" which represents a 1.8" increase on size for better braking when using the right components

[playr158]

what about the back

[Daftboy]

One step at a time Dan..

[Culpable04]

what about the back

I have drums on the back so I guess I'll be installing GTs since I don't wanna test GTS rear and discover they don't fit after having paid for the whole thing

[purplegt4]

awesome. how much it run u?

[purplegt4]

7th gen parts: rotors, mounting bracket, pads

6gen st: brake line, brake bolts


which caliper did you use?

[MaskedMan]

He used the Calipers from a 7th gen GTS apparently. Are the GT calipers different than the GTS? Would this mean that the big brake kits for the GTS should also theoretically fit on the ST's too then?

[Culpable04]

7th gen parts: rotors, mounting bracket, pads

6gen st: brake line, brake bolts


which caliper did you use?

GTS calipers

He used the Calipers from a 7th gen GTS apparently. Are the GT calipers different than the GTS? Would this mean that the big brake kits for the GTS should also theoretically fit on the ST's too then?

teh calipers from7th gen GTS is a little bit bigger than the 6th gen GT, and yes, since the OEM brake kit fits, so will the big brake kit as well

[Kwanza26]

what about the back

7th gen rears are double wishbone... so No.

[Culpable04]

awesome. how much it run u?

calipers ( with brakets ) US$125.00
EBC slotted rotors US$150.00
EBC green stuff pads US$90.00
SS brake lines US$64.00
motul brake fluid ??

you don't have to do it this way, for a budget set-up you can go with a set of used rotors, calipers and TRD ( US$45.00 ) or OEM pads. that all together should be ~ 225.00 if you install everything yourself, which is pretty straight forward if you have replace brakes before.

[purplegt4]

can't wait for pics gj

[Batman722]

great, so spedtoe169 was right for the last few years.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8498

[bccentaur3]

So the 7th gen gts brakes are actually bigger than the 6th gen GT's?

[Culpable04]

great, so spedtoe169 was right for the last few years.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=8498

yeah, I read the whole thing and that's why I decided to give it a try. I can't believe after all this time, no one tried it after he assure they'd fit. I'm just glad he was right, because if not, I'd have discover it the hard way after spending the money on the calipers lol

So the 7th gen gts brakes are actually bigger than the 6th gen GT's?

I don't have the dimensions of the GT's but they do look bigger than GT's

[bccentaur3]

Well if thats the case I might have to save up for the SSBC big brake kit. 12" rotors with 2 piston calipers. only 725$. Beats any other bbk out there, well atleats price wise.

[Kwanza26]

So the 7th gen gts brakes are actually bigger than the 6th gen GT's?

I think they are the same diameter. 6th gen GT's are 275mm in diameter according to brembo, and 7th gens are listed at 10.82 inches which is roughly 274.9mm... basically 275mm. The thickness of the rotor however might not be the same... along with the center hub bores. Part numbers are different between the two rotors, so they are more than likely different beyond the rotor diameter. Also note, the Scion tC, Matrix/Vibe, Corolla XRS, and a few other models share the same basic front brake systems as the 7th gen Celica.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Feb 8, 2008 - 12:28 AM

[bccentaur3]

Well since Culp confirmed this SSBC here we go.

[Kwanza26]

Another CONFIRMED cheap option if you ST guys want to "upgrade" your brakes... I'm still running them... and yeah... yay!

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...6&hl=brakes

[xs94st]

shweet. next time i'll be lookin for wrecked 5th n 7ths

[laff09]

Nice confirmation Culp. Lol, penny pinching on brakes - i love the logic..

[mariosdarkworld]

Ok so how you guys were talking about the whole big brake kit of the 7th generation fitting on the st front Well they sell a rear drum to disc conversion for the 7th gerenation so i was wondering would this fit??? Here's the link http://www.ssbrakes.com/products/detail/88...elica&year=

[Culpable04]

what about the back

7th gen rears are double wishbone... so No.

a couple members have said they will not fit, so no, if you want drums to disc conversion go with GT rears.

[Kwanza26]

Nice confirmation Culp. Lol, penny pinching on brakes - i love the logic..

Because only an idiot would cut/past crap onto his/her car and call it "brakes" right? Heh... We're clearly not using OEM parts, clearly NOT testing everything, clearly just being cheap asses. I like the logic there too.

If you're trying to be funny, try to sound less offensive about...

[lagos]

It would be nice to see a side by side comparison between the gts brakes and the standard GT brakes.

[Culpable04]

Nice confirmation Culp. Lol, penny pinching on brakes - i love the logic..

Because only an idiot would cut/past crap onto his/her car and call it "brakes" right? Heh... We're clearly not using OEM parts, clearly NOT testing everything, clearly just being cheap asses. I like the logic there too.

If you're trying to be funny, try to sound less offensive about...

I saw the comment and I decided to ignore it.

everyone is entittle to their opinion, that's what he thinks and I won't stress over it nor I'm gonna try to change his opinion. I don't know much about cars, and for that reason I listen when someone with more experience offers help or opinion. when such opinion is positive is great, that means I'm learning something, when is negative is even better because is saving me from making a mistake, but when genius gurus like him offer their always pleasant opinion, I feel that I owe them a BIG favor for sharing their breath taking acknowledge with us regular mortals

It would be nice to see a side by side comparison between the gts brakes and the standard GT brakes.

next time we meet you'll be able to look at them installed, everything is on their way so hopefully I'll install them this week.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 12, 2008 - 1:34 PM

[rjbibeau]

do a before and after brake stopping distance. it would be interesting

[Batman722]

I just want to see who's going to be the first with a $1500 big brake kit on their 6 gen. It'll look great but be so unessesary unless you're swapped...

[bccentaur3]

Or boosted right?? You can put on some bbk from the 7th gen for less then a grand. I'll be doing it this summer.

[Culpable04]

Or boosted right?? You can put on some bbk from the 7th gen for less then a grand. I'll be doing it this summer.

as far as I know, there are no BBK for the 7th gen that cost less than US$1000.00, there are Big rotor kits that uses the OEM caliper with a bracket as an upgrade, I searced on this and seems like there is a problem with the pads not having full contact with the rotors when using these bigger rotors + OEM calipers, so I'd not recommend going on that direction.

The 7th gen brakes were design for ~ 180 HP ( GTS ) so even a turbo 7A should be fine with these brakes.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 12, 2008 - 1:47 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

my stock GT brakes are doing fine so far. if anything ill get some slotted rotors, SS lines, and some NICE pads. that should be sufficient.

[bccentaur3]

So what are you saying? These Click Wont work? They are made for the gt-s and they are 2 piston calipers.

besides when I had my 7th gen gts 15" rims wouldn't clear the calipers. In order do do this you need 16's or higher.

So no go for us guys running factory GT alloys.

[Culpable04]

So what are you saying? These Click Wont work? They are made for the gt-s and they are 2 piston calipers.

besides when I had my 7th gen gts 15" rims wouldn't clear the calipers. In order do do this you need 16's or higher.

So no go for us guys running factory GT alloys.

I said, as far as I know, so I didn't know that far lol,

they should fit ( as long as you have wheels to clear them up ) but I'm fine with the stock GTS brakes, I mean, take a look at newcelica.org there are guys pushing ~ 300 HP with SS brake lines, and performance pads who don't have any issues with their brakes, so I guess my auto ST will be fine

[bccentaur3]

You would also have to consider the "bling" factor. I know what the gt-s' brakes could do. To be honest I loved them. Not quite sure the difference in weight of the 6th gen gt hatch and the 7th gen gt-s but The brakes don't even compare to one another. I was just running trd brake pads too.
Could someone answer this. If I couldn't fit 15's on there for winter on my 7th gen gt-s and obviously 15's clear the 6th gen GT's wouldn't that make the gt-s' brake calipers bigger? Thus performs way better than the GT's?

[Culpable04]

that , I don't know, I have 16" wheels so I have no way to tell.

I ordered TRD pads for my set-up ( US$46.00 )

waiting for Fedex to deliver them so I can install my new brakes.

[bccentaur3]

keep us updated.

[Daftboy]

My caliper. should be coming in this week as well...but its gonna be sometime till I order my pads and rotors.

This post has been edited by Daftboy: Feb 12, 2008 - 2:43 PM

[Culpable04]

now I have installed EBC front rotors, TRD front brake pads, SS brake lines ( only front ones ).


now the brake pedal has a spongy feel all the way down, it does not grab like it should, the front left and rear right tires stop more than the other two. the system has been drain at least 5 times, and no progress, and we bypass little metal valve after the brake master cylinder to see if it'd make any difference, it didn't.

the only thing I have left to try is to find out if the master cylinder from a 7th gen GTS is bigger than ours thus pushing more fluid to the calipers. The ones on our cars is 15/16 so the next size is 1"

any ideas of what should I try here guys ?

the brake pedal does not feel like it grabs much all the way to the floor

[Batman722]

bleed all 4

[lagos]

bleed all 4

x2
bleed everything starting from the rear pass side.

[Culpable04]

I personally bleed 3 out of the 4 and I really hope my friend didn't forgot the bleed the other size all 5 times, but I'll give that a try again and see.

[Kwanza26]

The brake pressure difference between these calipers should not be all that different... I mean... most big brake kits use the stock master cylinder, so I highly doubt you're lacking pressure. I think there's something else wrong.

[Culpable04]

The brake pressure difference between these calipers should not be all that different... I mean... most big brake kits use the stock master cylinder, so I highly doubt you're lacking pressure. I think there's something else wrong.

if you have any ideas of what else I should check, please tell me so, I ran out of ideas, at the beginning I though maybe the cylinder is bad, so I replace it with a new one, and everything on the front is basically new, the rear are untouched, I'm gonna bleed everything again as suggested, so if there is anything else I should check please let me know guys.

[_mikeE]

Well after august i'm planning on doing the front 7th gen big brake conversion--thiknin about getting slotted/drilled rotors and brembo calipers, and also planning on changing out the rear brakes to st205. I think I read somewhere that it would fit, or was that for the ST version only.
My concern is, with a big brake kit in the front and oem rear st205 brakes in the back. Will there be an uneven distribution of braking power, will it cause the front to wear more sooner?
Also, I tihnk there were big brake kits available for the st205 is that correct? So theoretically, the big brake kit for the st205 in the rear will fit on the ST (GT is possible).
Will this fix that uneven braking problem?

[bccentaur3]

So did you end up finding out the issue?

[Culpable04]

Brakes fixed

it was exactly what you guys said, I bleed them again in the order you guys told me to and that was it.


so far I love this upgrade, the brake are more responsive, and have a better grab and the best thing they don't fade after a fun drive thru some turns.

[Batman722]

pics stevenson. I want to see how much bigger they look compared to our stocks.

I know the pads and rotors are different but you replaced both the caliper and the torque plate right (caliper holder) ? Or just the caliper ?

[rjbibeau]

start with the farthest away and work your way around.

[Culpable04]

pics stevenson. I want to see how much bigger they look compared to our stocks.

I know the pads and rotors are different but you replaced both the caliper and the torque plate right (caliper holder) ? Or just the caliper ?

the torque plate has to be replace as well in order to fit the bigger rotors, but I had to use the bolts from the ST ( from torque plate to hub ) as the bolts that came with the GTS set were too long and were going to hit the back of the rotors.

I'll take pictures tomorrow, it was cold and I'm still a little bit sick so I didn't wanna stay out for picture taking but I'll do it tomorrow for sure.

The difference is size with the stock ST is ~ 1-1.5 inches, I don't know if this would be consider an upgrade for teh GT guys ( or if they fit ) but for the ST is definitely worthy, I had new brake pads installed last summer and the brake felt nice, but the difference with this set-up is night / day. I know is not fair to compare since I also have SS brake lines, and fresh fluid, but I don't even have to press the pedal much to get the car to stop.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 20, 2008 - 7:49 PM

[lagos]

Glad you got them working!
Id like to see how they compare to stock GT brakes.

[bccentaur3]

Same here. If there is even a tiny bit of gain for the GT I might just get these since they are hella cheaper than a bbk up grade.

[Culpable04]

pictures are taken, when I get home I'll upload them for you guys, I don't wanna get the IT department mad again, they don't like unkown activities on the server especially if they can't track them lol

[fanboy95]

i want to see this too. i've been looking at all the options for brake upgrades and not sure which to do.

[Culpable04]

these are the pics I have right now, if you guys want / need anty specific shot let me know and I'll take it.

[Daftboy]

You know I was thinking...and did some research a Pontiac Vibe 03-04 may fit as well since the vibe is a Toyota in reality and i think they use the same brakes as well...not sure thou.

[Culpable04]

pontiac vibe
toyota matrix
7th gen celica
scion TC
and some corollas have the same caliper, but the rotor may not be the same due to off set differences.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 21, 2008 - 7:03 PM

[Daftboy]

vibe has same offset

[cjh4l22]

pontiac vibe
toyota matrix
7th gen celica
scion TC
and some corollas have the same caliper, but the rotor may not be the same due to off set differences.

this needs to be added to the other parts that fit our celica topic...

[Kwanza26]

As I may have already mentioned, this would be a good mod only for the ST guys. The size and performance difference between 7th gen brakes and 6th gen GT's are insignificant. However, for the entire community as a whole, this does say 7th gen Big Brake kits will probably be bolt-ons... =D

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Feb 21, 2008 - 9:20 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

oopsy lol,so only brakes from the 7th gen gts would work or all 7th gens???

This post has been edited by CelicaST_CALI: Feb 21, 2008 - 9:54 PM

[Culpable04]

Brakes fixed

it was exactly what you guys said, I bleed them again in the order you guys told me to and that was it.


so far I love this upgrade, the brake are more responsive, and have a better grab and the best thing they don't fade after a fun drive thru some turns.

[SemperFiMarine]

Ok.
So I read up on this.

It seems like a reasonable upgrade from stock for us ST guys.

So I have a line up in parts that I want.

Rotora drilled and slotted front rotors for the 7th Gen GTS: $205
Rotora pads for the 7th Gen GTS $60

Those are supposed to be OEM upgrades.

As for the 7th Gen GTS calipers...
How much?
And where can I pick a set up?

What else do I need?

[Culpable04]

I got my set from newcelica.org and don't forget to grab some SS brake lines so it's a complete upgraded system.

[SemperFiMarine]

Do 7th Gen GTS rotors fit on stock 6th Gen ST calipers?

[Culpable04]

No

[SemperFiMarine]

Damn.

So where can I find a set of 7th Gen calipers for a good price?

Definitely not the dealership.

[Culpable04]

try newcelica.org or any 7th gen forum

[SemperFiMarine]

I went to new celica.org...
I couldn't find the link where to purchase parts.

[6strngs]

so, if 7th gen front brakes are a big upgrade for ST's, but would probably not be an upgrade for GT's, then wouldn't just putting 6th gen GT front calipers, rotors, and pads give the exact same benefit to ST guys as 7th gen brakes (assuming that 7th gen brakes are not an upgrade for GT's)


really off topic, but I noticed in the picture that you have hankook ventus HRII tires. I was wondering how you like them?

[Culpable04]

I went to new celica.org...
I couldn't find the link where to purchase parts.

there is no link where to buy , you have to make a WTB post

so, if 7th gen front brakes are a big upgrade for ST's, but would probably not be an upgrade for GT's, then wouldn't just putting 6th gen GT front calipers, rotors, and pads give the exact same benefit to ST guys as 7th gen brakes (assuming that 7th gen brakes are not an upgrade for GT's)


really off topic, but I noticed in the picture that you have hankook ventus HRII tires. I was wondering how you like them?

I'm not sure about your comparison, you might be right, but I don't know it lol

about the tires, they are the best for the money, I paid US$220.00 for a brand new set, traction is great on dry, not so great on rain / snow, but it's drivable. Remember I have a ST so keep that in mind.

[dabazied]

Would these fit with stock rims?

[Culpable04]

I'm not sure, I have 16" wheels.

[playr158]

calipers you can get from advanced auto...

[tomazws]

Could someone sticky this or include this into the "http://www.6gc.net/howto"

[bccentaur3]

Would these fit with stock rims?

No 15's will not fit. I had a 7th gen gts and tried to fit 15's for winter, but won't clear the calipers.

[politicsareevil]

I know that the uprgade to disks all around is good, but besides disks all around what are the pros and cons to this swap??

- Matt

[bccentaur3]

Its obvious in this case bigger is better. Since our braking power is used more up front having bigger rotors and disk gives us better stopping power. Of course all wheel disk break will make a difference too. Especially for you ST guys.

[6strngs]

I'd say that if you have an ST, upgrading the rear drums to rear discs, AND then upgrading the fronts to 7th gen GTS/6th gen GT (if they work, but I don't see why they wouldn't), you'd have about the same as a stock 6th gen GT, but it would be a huge improvment over a stock 6th gen ST.

This post has been edited by 6strngs: Feb 28, 2008 - 8:39 PM

[politicsareevil]

Well when the 3s gets running I'll definately need some bigger brakes... I dont drive fast but i like the look. And its always nice to be able to stop fast when its needed.

- Matt

[celicaGT96]

either way its always nice to know there are other options out there for our celicas.

[azian_advanced]

they 'are' an upgrade for GTs (assuming they fit the same was as on an ST), but not the same kinda difference you would get from an actual bbk. i'm sure the 7th GT-S brake assembly is bigger than the 6th gen GT disc brake assembly.
once i find someone local parting out a 7th gen GT-S, i will try this myself!

[Culpable04]

Kwanza posted the specs of the disc, they are about the same size, the only way this would be an upgrade from GT is if the caliper and pads are bigger, probably GTs can just swap the caliper instead of having to get new disc like us ST drivers

[6strngs]

well, if they do in fact need 16's to clear the caliper on this car (i know you do for 7th gens, but maybe our's is mounted slightly closer or something, I dunno) then it would be bigger then stock 6th gen GTs which can use 15" rims.

if somebody had the measurements on the diameter of the caliper piston on 7th gen and 6th gen GT brakes, that would tell you right away if it would be an improvement.

[azian_advanced]

Kwanza posted the specs of the disc, they are about the same size, the only way this would be an upgrade from GT is if the caliper and pads are bigger, probably GTs can just swap the caliper instead of having to get new disc like us ST drivers

lubu also posted a chart of rotor sizes.. and the 7th gen GT-S and 6th gen GT have identical rotor dimensions but the 7th gen is 3mm thinner.

my assumption is if the 6th gen GT calipers and axle carriers are the same as the STs (which i'll verify when i get home today), then the 7th gen GT-S calipers will mount to the 6th gen axle carriers and won't need to have 7th gen GT rotors (if the 3mm thicker rotors from the 6th gen doesn't affect the 7th gen calipers' performance). but all this is pointless, if the piston diameters of both calipers are the same.

[Culpable04]

3 mm thicker will make a difference, that means swaping the caliper to the GT and keeping the stock rotors will not work, the piston will travel a different distance in order to compress the pads, a thiner rotor will means that the piston will not travel enough to apply the required pressure.

[99GT]

Can't somebody who has part numbers confirm if the brake parts used are the same from ST to GT? Just a thought.

[6strngs]

3 mm thicker will make a difference, that means swaping the caliper to the GT and keeping the stock rotors will not work, the piston will travel a different distance in order to compress the pads, a thiner rotor will means that the piston will not travel enough to apply the required pressure.

but that's not the case. the piston moves closer to the disc as the pads wear out, and when you release the brakes, it moves back only a very small amount. for example, when your pads aren worn, the piston sits closer to the disc, this is why you push the piston back in when you put new pads in. then after a brake job you pump the brakes to get the piston to the proper position. the thinner rotor may or may not cause problems for other reasons, but the distance the piston needs to travel is not a problem. the only problem I could see with it is that when the pads get extremely worn, the piston may extend too far to the point where it'll blow the seals in the caliper.

[azian_advanced]

^ that, and also the possibility that with 7th gen calipers, new (thick) brake pads and the thicker 6th gen rotors, the extra 3mm rotor thickness might be too much...

anyway, i just checked the ST and GT brakes... they have the same caliper mounting bolt distances, same steering knuckles and same hubs.. i don't see why it wouldn't work on a GT. we just need to get this confirmed now.. any takers?

[6strngs]

^ that, and also the possibility that with 7th gen calipers, new (thick) brake pads and the thicker 6th gen rotors, the extra 3mm rotor thickness might be too much...

anyway, i just checked the ST and GT brakes... they have the same caliper mounting bolt distances, same steering knuckles and same hubs.. i don't see why it wouldn't work on a GT. we just need to get this confirmed now.. any takers?

the 6th gen GT rotor is 3mm thinner than 7th gen rotors, not thicker. there shouldn't be an issue with the rotors/pads being too thick to fit in the caliper.

I'll put them on and test them out if somebody wants to give me the calipers

[azian_advanced]

but this says otherwise

[6strngs]

but this says otherwise

Ah, I thought it was the other way around. then yes, brand new brake pads w/ 7th gen calipers might not fit with GT rotors.

[CelicaST_CALI]

soo all 7th gen brakes work or just gts??

[Culpable04]

soo all 7th gen brakes work or just gts??

they all should work, but why install something that is not an upgrade from what you already have ?

[CelicaST_CALI]

i have an st...

[Culpable04]

yeah, but the 7th gen GT brakes after certain year ( 2001 ? ) are tha same as GTS, and before that, they are smaller than GTS which makes them smaller than 6th gen GT brakes. so not that big of an upgrade from the ST, especially when price wise is not much of a difference from one to the other.

[CelicaST_CALI]

ya but new brakes and they are slotted,better cooling

[purplegt4]

Would these fit with stock rims?

No 15's will not fit. I had a 7th gen gts and tried to fit 15's for winter, but won't clear the calipers.

14's won't. 15's will.

at least the 15" 7th gen GT rims do.

[Davesceli]

ok so if i wanna instal a bbk for a 7gc...all i would need to do is bolt up all the brakets and stuff right...nothing special needed??

[tomazws]

bleed everything starting from the rear pass side.

it was exactly what you guys said, I bleed them again in the order you guys told me to and that was it.

May I ask if the order was clockwise or counter clockwise starting from rear passenger side?!?!?!