RE: Mod Abuse, A Fresh Start. Options

[Defgeph]

Good evening everyone,

Every 6 months or so we get complaints about how we (The Moderators) moderate this website. Every time this issue is brought up it ends up a 10- 15 page screaming match followed by the topic being closed. I figured this would be the perfect time to start a new topic to change the tone of the previous thread. It ended with a hail storm of pointless comments. I did not want to jump right back into that part of the conversation.

That being said, this is now my topic. I am setting the mood of conversation and I expect it to carry on this way from start to end. If you cannot express you opinions in a mature/adult manner, your opinions are not wanted in this thread. Post will be removed from this thread, members will be warned.

On to the topic.

I read the OP's complaints about the moderating staff for this website. I think its great that people voice their opinions, more members should do it. We cannot learn or grow as a community if nobody raises an issue. We also cannot complain about so said problems without understanding how the management of this website works. Bringing up issues with out throughly thinking about them is waisting everyone's time.

So let's go over a few of these issues:

• Issue One: A recent For Sale thread was brought up in the discussion. A seemingly innocent thread to everyone. A guy wants to sell some lights, whats the problem ? Other members sell lights left and right, as they should. Everyone should have the opportunity. to sell 6th generation related items on this website.
  
  The main issue with this thread was, the member signed up that day and immediately started a For Sale thread. In our book thats not acceptable. There have been many instances that members have been scammed, ripped off, taken advantage of. This is unacceptable with the moderating team. So we take certain precautions to make sure that this doesn't happen. Like making sure we have reputable sellers on this website. We have rules that we follow that are not for the public to see.
  
  The reason for with holding some of the rules, is so scammers don't catch on to them.
  
  Below is a link to issue one
  HID For Sale Thread
  
  
• Issue Two: Another for sale thread has been brought up in this conversation. A member is thinking about selling his car. But its obvious to the people that know him that he is not thinking clearly. So other members that know him personally turn him in the right direction, to keep his car. Presure2 knows this member on a personal level. so he closed the thread. After the fact presure2 spoke with Daftboy on the phone and cleared his head right up.
  
  If this was such a big issue don't you think Daftboy would have made a complaint ? He was overwhelmed by the fact that all of his colleagues rushed to tell him he was making a mistake. Believe me I know, I wanted to sell my car at one point as well. I got kick in the ass for it, I moved on
  
  
  My question is why do you feel that it is your place to question something as insignificant as this issue ? Its not your place. It was something that involved Presure2 & Daftboy, they resolved the issue and moved on. Please do not involve yourself in other member's matters.
  
  A link to Issue Two below
  For Sale thread about a car
  
  
• Issue Three: The third issue to be brought up was topic closure, and or "smart comments", or "getting in the last word" before the close. I have some news for you we are moderators, our job is to close threads. Now, before you get all hot and bothered and hit the reply button, read what I type. Presure2 & myself have been moderating this website for a few years now. Let me emphasize the word YEARS. We have been doing this under the watchful eye of Coomer. We do not, I repeat do not get paid for this. Yep, we volunteer. In the beginning of our moderating tenure, we would remove pointless posts, warn members, let threads carry on into a flame war. This brings me lets say a year back, when we (the moderating team) were brought up because we would warn people that would cross the line. Members would complain about warnings, cry foul play. When in reality it was the people constantly disrupting the website that were complaining. So, we started to warn people less, members still were issued warning but not as frequent. After a more relaxed approach by the moderating staff, more pointless conversations spilled over from Off Topic into the other sections. This was not going to fly with us.
  
  So we started cleaning threads and trying to continue with the discussion. After going into the same thread 5 or 6 times deleting posts it gets old fast. Whats the next best thing ? Lock the thread. Nobody gets a warning that they will complain about and maybe they'll think about why the thread was locked, and try to be more mature the next time around. In the begining we gave detailed reasons for thread closings. They would always fall on deaf ears. So we stopped. Or sometimes our own frustration make it out in to the last post. This thankless job ain't easy, but we have excellent help from the members that use the "report a post button". I am happy every time you guys use this button.
  
  
• In closing:
  The moderators are die hard Celica enthusiasts, we don't like to see this place become a clubhouse. We would like to keep this the number one 6th Generation Celica resource on the internet. It has been that way because of our senor members and a strong managment team. We have a huge data base of knowledge, Highly experienced members, a online community that does not exsist on any other website. If we allow bickering or pointless posts to make their way into the main forum, we are not doing our job.

Remember, we are all here to share our experiences and love for a certain vehicle. It is this car that brings us all together. We would like to keep it that way.

If you'd like to have conversations that do not include the 6th gen, or want somewhere to goof off. Try AOL Instant Messenger, or Myspace. Goofing off will not be tolerated on this website any longer. We will be warning members again, we will continue to close threads. Please give Off Topic a break.


Thank you for reading my very long post. Remember, This is now my thread if you cannot act in a mature manner I don't want you in this thread. This goes for everyone. Now, if you have something you would like to add please feel free to do so.

Good evening,
DEF

[jesterwr217]

i like the way you handled this it really is very mature unlike the last topic....
i respect you guys as moderators you guys do a great job
through my experiences ive had a couple threads deleted nothing major i just ask if your goin to close my thread or dont like what im doing just let me know and i will gladly stop im not here to desrespect anyone or abuse any rules on this site
this site has helped my alot in my experiences with my car and im thankful to have this site and the people on it
thanks guys keep up the good work
wes

[hitcachi]

Agreed and Amen. This is mainly the reason that I have not been online very much at all this past year, which is big, because there was a point where i was one of the main posters. This site does need a change.

[95st-celica]

Dear mr. Defgeph...with all due respect sir....i believe the problems we have here arose in a few closure of threads recently involving manny and eric...and another guy who was trying to sell off some HID kits he had.....after which he kept bumping it up and pressure told him to stop....which is understandable......but then when he closed it because he bumped it up again is a little much...espically with a smart remark at the end.....or like eric when he told him he "wasnt selling"...thats just crazy...even if you do know the guy personaly i wouldnt have the guts to tell my friend what he was and wasnt doin with his car.....aside from that i think that everyone else has their panties in a bunch is because of the smart comments at the end of threads...im sure manny is a great guy...and i do look forward to meeting him sometime...maybe in the ECM commin up...but i just think that commer wouldnt appreciate a few things that have been goin on.

[goferris]

i just want to say i am glad this site is run the way it is. i'm not kissing anyones @$$ in saying so either.
i think that there have been several threads opened that are completely useless that i am surprised are still opened. i have seen other threads that were closed that left me scratching my head thinking WTF???
i have had to ask manny to help me with a purchase that went horribly wrong and he was more than happy to help even though that's not his job and we got everything resolved in a quick manner.
i have looked at other forums for info about my car and i can't find anything useful because all i could find was a bunch of random info on nothing because they just don't care.

on that note i do think that we need some more mods on the site. doggy has moved on, coomer is really busy and has also moved on (so to speak although there is a big update coming soon. we will miss the yelli ), defgeph isn't on as much anymore and that leaves presure2 with a hefty load.
this is a free site people. why complain? you aren't paying anything to be on here and to get the info that is available. it doesn't lose anyone business so the comparison to a business was pointless. the less useless posts and threads cost coomer less money to keep the site running. so if you don't like the rules leave. we really don't care.
this site has helped me with my car in so many ways. i will still be here as long as i own my celi because i know that if i need help someone is willing to lend a hand.
that's the end of my ramble. you all can think what you want about me or anyone else on the site for that matters. i really don't care. i love my car and enjoy this site cuz i have met others that have that same love for theirs.

[jason]

well said jeff!

on a side note... who actually bought those hid kits that were "sold"? no feedback left, no thanks for your business posts. the guy never posted what size the bulbs were after how many people asked.

edit: vvv haha here we go again vvv

This post has been edited by jason: Mar 12, 2008 - 11:59 PM

[hongkongnerdboy]

Hello,
I hope that this forum will be very helpful for the sixth generation Celica community. To make the most out of this forum, a couple rules need to be followed.

1. Please do not post any advertising in these forums. Group buys must be approved by me beforehand, so PM me so we can talk before you post your group buy.

2. If you're selling something, your topic title must start with "FS:", followed by what you're selling (in the topic title, not the topic description.) If you want to buy something, your topic title must start with "WTB:", and again, must include what you want to buy. If these 2 rules are not followed, your thread WILL BE DELETED.

3. Please post things relating ONLY to sixth gen. Celicas in this forum. Universal parts(such as 52mm gauges, stereo equipment, etc.) are alright, as long as it will fit in the sixth gen. Celica.

4. Once your transaction(or all transactions, in the case of multiple items for sale, group buys, part-outs, etc.) is complete, you must edit the topic description(the box under the title) to say "COMPLETED". It's extremely important that the topic title and the post are left unchanged! Management will lock the topic, and it will remain visible and intact for use with the buyer/seller reputation system.

Topics that don't follow these rules will be removed. Thank you in advance for your help and cooperation in this matter. Enjoy the forums!

Also, this forum is just for information. Buying and selling things on the internet can be risky, so it's advised that you use an escrow service such as Escrow.com when buying or selling something. 6G Celicas and its management is in no way responsible for anything that is sold or purchased on these forums.

well if there are rules we can not see that you uphold, how do you expect new members to be able to sell anything if they are legit?

"The main issue with this thread was, the member signed up that day and immediately started a For Sale thread. In our book thats not acceptable."

so when is it acceptable for them to start selling?

"There have been many instances that members have been scammed, ripped off, taken advantage of.This is unacceptable with the moderating team"

Also, this forum is just for information. Buying and selling things on the internet can be risky, so it's advised that you use an escrow service such as Escrow.com when buying or selling something. 6G Celicas and its management is in no way responsible for anything that is sold or purchased on these forums.

you are not responsible for the people that are scammed, neither is coomer. if they are scammed, thats their fault for trusting them. of course, the legit ones when they sell, thats how they build up rep. or does someone come straight in with reps already? i thought they all start off at 0 in the beginning and build up from there

[Defgeph]

Like I said above I am not and will not reveal any buying and selling rules. That is left to us, for member's security.

It may say in the rules that we are not responsable for member getting scammed. But that won't stop me from looking out for everyone on this site. I'm sorry, I care about this site and its member's to much. I never want to see anyone ripped off, I will do what ever I can to prevent it.

If you have a problem with the moderators protecting our members. Please, PM Coomer.

[hongkongnerdboy]

no i dont have a problem with you protecting the members.

but after all, like i asked, if they are new... how do they become legit sellers? if you wont let them sell becuase they are new.

[mneal2_92788]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

[Defgeph]

no i dont have a problem with you protecting the members.

but after all, like i asked, if they are new... how do they become legit sellers? if you wont let them sell becuase they are new.

Like I said above I am not and will not reveal any buying and selling rules. That is left to us, for member's security.

[95st-celica]

what i wanna know is whos next down on the chain....coomer is the almighty...but who did he sign first after that to look over the site?

[CelicaST_CALI]

why does it matter?

[95st-celica]

caus im curious...now is an appropriate time to ask i think....why does it matter to you?

[Defgeph]

The reason for with holding some of the rules, is so scammers don't catch on to them.

Please read my original post guys.

The moderators all have equal abilities, and we'll leave it at that.

[Batman722]

IMO this isn't a site that someone can just join up to sell stuff. That's what ebay, craigslist, ect are for. If someone does that here, it like they're trying to make a quick buck off us and I don't dig it.

It's tough enough buying things online from a forum when you don't even know the person your buying from, I'm glad the mods help in some way.

As for the guy selling the HID kits, google his aol name here he's spamming up plenty of forums selling these, do you guys want a bunch of spammers selling their crap here all time ?

I'd rather buy from members that I have seen post and to an extent know them.

[hongkongnerdboy]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

[95st-celica]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

you obviously havent been here very long

[Defgeph]

Let me repeat myself. If you cannot act in a mature manner I do not want you in this thread.

Do not attack each other, do not bicker, leave you attitudes at the door. Have an educated discussion.


Thank you and good night,

DEF

[goferris]

but are they useful posts or useless posts? if someone is a regular on here and actually seems to know what they are doing i'm more willing to buy from them.
there is a deal in the b/s forum that i won't even consider cuz the guy is brand new. i would rather risk ebay cuz then atleast i have some assurance from paypal that i'm not going to get screwed.
when the only place a member ever is posting is in their FS ad i just don't trust them and that's what seems like happened in this situation.
do you see that guy complaining on here? did it affect you at all? if you were planning on buying from the guy the thread is still there. you can always send him a PM and get one. personally i didn't see any interest forming in the thread anyways. it was more of an annoyance that kept showing up at the top of the b/s forum.
sometimes people just want to complain

[hongkongnerdboy]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

you obviously havent been here very long

really? i notice you only been on here 4 months longer than i have

[Batman722]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

you obviously havent been here very long

really? i notice you only been on here 4 months longer than i have

Let me repeat myself. If you cannot act in a mature manner I do not want you in this thread.

Do not attack each other, do not bicker, leave you attitudes at the door. Have an educated discussion.

Thank you and good night,
DEF

[hongkongnerdboy]

i am not bickering or attacking, i am simply giving an educated answer with no attitude

[lagos]

I have been a member of this site longer the most of the people that are in here posting. I personally know presure2 and defgeph who are on the moderating staff and have been members for a few years. On the other hand I also know 95st-celica who joined about a year ago and is voicing his concerns with the rest of the guys.

I would just like to say that I was a little disappointed in the "if you dont like it gtfo" comments. Im not sure who exactly said it in the last post, but thats not how we should be treating new members. Most of us who have been on here for a long time are used to how this site is run and are cool with it.... but if a few of the newer guys want to speak up about an issue they have, they should be allowed to, and their opinion (good/bad) should be taken into account. Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow.

I am also disappointed that Coomer is not an active member of this site. This place really needs an admin when these kinds of issues come up.

This post has been edited by lagos: Mar 13, 2008 - 12:59 AM

[95st-celica]

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

you obviously havent been here very long

really? i notice you only been on here 4 months longer than i have

i didnt mean to sound like an asshole..im just sayin...plus i have been here a lot longer then it says i joined...mabe a year or 2

[njccmd2002]

Thumbs up for the moderating team, everynow and then we might cross the line, ive done it. But I also try to help, as far as to my knowledge. I am a member for almost a year now, and ever since i bought my celica i have not had a more fun car, and more pleasant time but spending time in the forums.

My wife tells me i have no other life other than 6gc.net. Not true, i have one of the most worderful jobs, and excellent family life. But im addicted to 6gc, cause im addicted to my car. Always looking for something new.

However, it is dissapointing to have to read 25k posts in order to find something useful. And see many members ask questions, nobody helping them, because everybody is more interesting in bashing, attacking, or posting remarks out of envy towards another. Opinion is a very powerful weapon, if you dont know how to use it, dont.

My opinion as simple as it is, can hurt somebody. If i know i will offend, then i shut myself. Im 31 years old with 8 years of post high school education. Life has taught me well, and so did my parents.

I love the site, and like I said before, free services do not last long, especially when you complain about it. remeber when coomer had problems with the site, couple months ago. I tought it got shut down, i was scared and so were many. So lets protect our free Investment.

Try to go get some free samples from SamsClub or Costo clubs, complain, then ask for more.. I dont think you will get a smile out of it.

yes its tru we prolly need more moderators, then again not for us to decide. Our contributions are based on requests, not demands.

We are help to help one another, not attack. I would like to meet the moderators and coomer one day, but im too far away, and in a few years prolly wont have time.

So, by being respectful and mindful of our cultural and age difference we can continue to grow.

There are other forums out there, yes, they let everybody do almost anything, yes. But thats it, they are others. We are

6GC

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Mar 13, 2008 - 1:13 AM

[SlickRick]

I think this whole thing is a bit over blown. I do feel Mods from time to time are hypocritical when saying a thread is pointless in the off topic section, then leaving one last equally frivolous and obnoxious remark then closing the thread. Or closing one thread then saying ridiculous things like "any copy cat threads, and the starter will be banned." I have said it b4 and will say it again the mods on this site think they r the messiah when is comes to 6gc. Often times they alienate new comers, break the rules the say they enforce, and down right insult people. I personally only come 2 this site to talk 2 a few people I genuinely like and sell a few extra parts. I enjoy this site, however, since the mods think they have the right to shut down the 5th amendment I dont visit as much as b4 or tell other 6gc owners I meet about this site. Its a shame that a few people with arrogant attitudes on here are actively destroying the community they say they help.

This post has been edited by SlickRick: Mar 13, 2008 - 2:06 AM

[MaskedMan]

Just as lagos said, I too was disappointed to see some of the "stfu and gtfo" posts. I have been a member here for quite a long time now. Long enough to know that the main attraction to this site is not the information, but the kindness to new members. What I witnessed last night was a complete disregard to the feelings and opinions of new members.

I fully understand that the moderating team has been volunteering here for several years. Great appreciation for that. Closing threads and protecting the members of 6gc.net is your job. Just as writing tickets and protecting citizens are the duties of a police officer. There is no real nice way to do it, but some things must be done I understand. But as an authority figure, you should know that our members do look up to you. So rude comments before closing threads are unnecessary. Our members do learn from you and will only respond in such a way. Set a good example for our members and our members will become respectful. Years of being here is in no way an excuse for being disrespectful.

Threads like these come up every 6 months for a reason. And it is quite obviously as to why. People speak, and no one is heard. People speak, and once again, no one is heard. It seemed like the mentality of last night was "we are the way we are, we will not change". But isn't it the thoughts that has gotten the site to where it is today? Shouldn't we be constantly changing to meet the needs of our members? Remember way back when. Before we had the buyer reputation system, before we had the multimedia section, before we had high resolution photos as an option. What if we had just brushed those ideas off and told them to go to some other site which offers those things?

We need to hear the voices of new members. New or not, we are all humans, with ideas, with opinions. And they should be heard. We are all Celica enthusiasts yes. But we are so much more than just that. For each Celica, there is a driver, a person. We should always remember that.

[Defgeph]

I see the biggest complaint is a snide comment at the time of closure. In the future, we will try to be more careful not to hurt anyone's feeling when we close a thread.

I also see that you call us hypocrites. Of course we can be hypocritical at times. We are not the "gods" some members make us out to be. We are just a couple of guys with cars. Its human nature to make a mistake.



Thanks,
DEF

[speedfeen]

I havent been on this forum for long but I have been on forums before...even ones I have paid for and still continue to pay for... IMO this is almost better than the ones you do pay for...this is a reason why I still am here....i have been here 2-3 months and have already been beaten with the STFU and GTO stick...Although I do agree with some threads/posts being removed but I still scratch my head as to why my thread about the millitary was closed...i know this isnt about just that and I can leave that for another time...but i think that even if its a symbol or just a couple words from a mod to let us know someone is taking things out of hand I would agree with that...

Some ppl "report this post" because something someone has said bothers them...sometimes something that bothers someone doesnt bother the other person, but their thread gets closed due to that, but it was their fault...that may hard to understand it seems i talk in riddles at some times...and I agree as well with the snide comments...yes we may get upset with certain member but just maybe say closed if you have any Q's please PM me...thats fine isnt it? Im sure I can deal with that!!


In the end I know we cant complain that much because this is a free site and so far its okay...but when I read the rules it says respect the members....when did GTO and STFU become respectable appropriate manor to address others? And dont get my wrong I am NOT pointing fingers or naming names I am simply addressing my concerns as well...


I dont think we should be given 6million warnings, one is enough and if it seems the same person is causing all the trouble maybe a pm to personally warn them without the whole site to be able to see and if that doesnt work then BAM BAM with the ban hammer...

Maybe we jsut need a method

1- quick warn in the thread itself to straigten up
2- if consistant...PM the member
3- if this doesnt work BAN for a period of time or indefinately depending on the circumstances...


thats just my .02.......more like .10 but whos counting?



Feen

This post has been edited by speedfeen: Mar 13, 2008 - 9:14 AM

[Defgeph]

I will quickly reply I have to go to work. When someone uses the report a post button. It's never, and I mean never the two people bickering with each other. Its always a member outside of the fighting.

If you are wondering why your thread was closed, you can always PM us. We are happy to explain the reasons.

[D-Man]

eh-

it's not worth arguing over, i just wanted to throw in my .02 cents in the last round. I'm not trying to lead a revolution or...( 6gc revolution )... or anything like that; It's the mod's site, and the mod's gunna do what they want when they want. They own it, we dont. So whatever~

6gc revolution, that's funny. Retarded, but funny.

I do however agree with some of the insanely stupid threads, like (no offense to SpeedFeen; she didnt start it) but the one where the guy was "bat signaling" her? okay, that one was dumb. Thanks for closing that one. lol.

You guys run your site how you please, i was just stating my .02 cents in the last match.

i'mah shut up now.

[tonytutino]

i'll just say that this site is free. bottom line.
our mods are doing a great job keeping us in line because we are not just another forum as you all know

this is a community, without homeostasis we would turn into an awful, unsupervised forum. you guys are all getting mad about snide comments, but read what the mods are saying, they have been doing this for YEARS. hell, after a few years of doing the same thing over and over again i'd get a tad cynical about it too. you also must not forget they are doing this for free!

all in all, we just need to respect the mods and their decision to close/move topics. they weed the crap out so we aren't bogged down with useless ''this is how i got out of a ticket'' posts and what not.

keep it up guys

[njccmd2002]

i'll just say that this site is free. bottom line.
our mods are doing a great job keeping us in line because we are not just another forum as you all know

this is a community, without homeostasis we would turn into an awful, unsupervised forum. you guys are all getting mad about snide comments, but read what the mods are saying, they have been doing this for YEARS. hell, after a few years of doing the same thing over and over again i'd get a tad cynical about it too. you also must not forget they are doing this for free!

all in all, we just need to respect the mods and their decision to close/move topics. they weed the crap out so we aren't bogged down with useless ''this is how i got out of a ticket'' posts and what not.

keep it up guys

yeah, one thing to consider, not only the mods are here to help, I mean they have provided us with the report button, so we can help too.

If you see a for sale tread, with no fs, let the user know. Lets keep the site with tons of useful information, and not other stuff.

If you want to chat, and there is no embedded chat room, improvise using messenger, aim, or other stuff.

well, im falling asleep, so i hope we keep up the good work, have a pleasant day.

[D-Man]

i'd still like to donate a chat room. I know that thread is old and gone, but i have scripted chatrooms before, and i have a few scrips sitting arround...

If you all want em...

[Batman722]

I would just like to say that I was a little disappointed in the "if you dont like it gtfo" comments. Im not sure who exactly said it in the last post, but thats not how we should be treating new members. Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow.

Just as lagos said, I too was disappointed to see some of the "stfu and gtfo" posts.

I was one that wrote some "gtfo" and "stfu" comments. That was me that had been drinking tell how I really felt. Did I mean it ? yes I did. Why ? well I'll tell you.

The non-drinking sugar coated version - This site is run a certain way, different than other sites, I'm sure that you all can agree, it's been brought up time and time again. I see a lot of useless posts from certain members and it reminds me of how things were before when Andason got the boot. Example : what makes this thread different than the "pointless thread" from way back ? That has just turned into a blog/diary and a 19 page conversation between a few members which I thought wasn't permitted. And the same members that have problems with the mods are the main contributers to that thread.

Art, you wrote "Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow. " I agree with you 100%, my concern is what this community was growing into

[BlackCelicaGT94]

Andason - lol i miss that f'er.

Anyways i would like to applaud this thread for the maturity level of its content.

I think that STFU and GTFO should be written in like swear words where if you type it then it becomes ****

[GriffGirl]

[*] Issue Two: Another for sale thread has been brought up in this conversation. A member is thinking about selling his car. But its obvious to the people that know him that he is not thinking clearly. So other members that know him personally turn him in the right direction, to keep his car. Presure2 knows this member on a personal level. so he closed the thread. After the fact presure2 spoke with Daftboy on the phone and cleared his head right up. ...

My question is why do you feel that it is your place to question something as insignificant as this issue ? Its not your place. It was something that involved Presure2 & Daftboy, they resolved the issue and moved on. Please do not involve yourself in other member's matters.

I totally agree with your approach on the entire topic of the argument except what I have quoted above. I think I've been exceedingly clear that I see both sides of the argument, and that ultimately any discourse or disagreements should be handled with maturity not only to preserve the integrity of this site, but to also lend credibility to the person arguing a point. It's all about clear and concise communication.

That being said, the issue I take with what I've quoted above is the insistence that it is not anyone's place to interfere or comment on the above mentioned thread, that is was a personal thing between Pressure2 & Daftboy. I think that is completely inappropriate to even say.

If that's the case, then it should have been handled privately either through PMing or a phone call or whatever. This is a public forum and as such, anything in any of the threads, while it may not directly involve anyone other than the people in the thread, is public domain and as such is free to be commented on.

To end on a positive note, because it's not my intention to come here and just bitch and complain, I want to say that the reason I spend WAY more time on this site than on other Toyota forums or Celica forums is because not only is this a great community, but the site is a fountain of ideas and knowledge, run with dignity and respect. I'm not some stuck-up b1tch, and CERTAINLY not thin-skinned, but some of the banter and general b.s. that goes on on the other sites is just useless and a waste of time to me. I think we can all agree that while we may have our issues or disagreements, this site completely rocks, and that is due in equal part to the participants and the moderators here. We all comprise this community.

[playr158]

Andason
good times back in the day......and if I haven't been banned/mod previewed yet....then everyone else should be able to comply

its really not terribly difficult to go by the rules, most the time at least.
If you got a problem with a mod, PM them.....I know i've gone back and forth with'm a time or two.

Def good job with a level head +1 its what I like to see around here

and censoring GTFO & STFU....meh won't really do much some people just need to learn change.

[Supersprynt]

[goferris]

i couldn't help but laugh at this. thanks super

[GriffGirl]

^ that makes me so happy and joyous to like women and not men.

[devilsden97]

I personally had a problem with the mods for a while. (probally about a year or so go) My major concern was locking threads, and yada. (yada = all the other stuff u guys have stated concern over) I also started a thread about mod abuse. And it pretty much ended the same way the most recent one did.

After it ended, IIRC Presure2 personally called me and explained some things about closures and warnings, and also pointed out some things that I personally was doing that wasn't ok. After hearing that, I took a step back and began to look at what was going on, and not jump to conclusions as much as I used to. Also now, if I have a question about anything, I just shoot a Mod a PM.

Seriously, whats the worst that could happen? They give you some bs excuse? Highly unlikly, and if they do, then you have proof of some "mod abuse" and because you went through the right channels... you actually have a case and might get somewhere with a "mod abuse" thread.


Thanks DEF for the PG thread thats not 68 pages of flaming and name calling.

Migga

[DEATH]

I just wanna say that I appreciate the way Jeff handled this conversation and the fact that he actually addressed the snide comments issue since that conversation was completely one sided up till that point.
IMO - That is perfect moderator-like behavior.
Also this is the only car site I now go on - and there is a reason for that other than the fact it caters to my fav car. This site is great and not a day goes by that someone doesn't inspire me to improve my car in a new way. For that I am very greatful.
I hope that nothing I have said has offended anyone long term.
Oh and I just threw up a little in my mouth over that group hug pic

[96bluevert]

I agree with what alot of people have said here. Def went about this whole ordeal in a good moderator manner. Thanks for getting us back on track!

[speedfeen]

actually out of my whole blurb up there i forgot to mention i like the fact how this was closed, so everyone could chill out then re-opened and kept under control...thanks DEF for keeping it out of the flame war again!! Kudos

that pic of the men made me gag..lol

Feen

This post has been edited by speedfeen: Mar 13, 2008 - 12:34 PM

[hongkongnerdboy]

I would just like to say that I was a little disappointed in the "if you dont like it gtfo" comments. Im not sure who exactly said it in the last post, but thats not how we should be treating new members. Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow.

Just as lagos said, I too was disappointed to see some of the "stfu and gtfo" posts.

I was one that wrote some "gtfo" and "stfu" comments. That was me that had been drinking tell how I really felt. Did I mean it ? yes I did. Why ? well I'll tell you.

The non-drinking sugar coated version - This site is run a certain way, different than other sites, I'm sure that you all can agree, it's been brought up time and time again. I see a lot of useless posts from certain members and it reminds me of how things were before when Andason got the boot. Example : what makes this thread different than the "pointless thread" from way back ? That has just turned into a blog/diary and a 19 page conversation between a few members which I thought wasn't permitted. And the same members that have problems with the mods are the main contributers to that thread.

Art, you wrote "Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow. " I agree with you 100%, my concern is what this community was growing into

what makes this thread tina bday thread[b][b] [/b][/b]different than our "pointless thread"? i do not see any sort of information in that thread while on ours if you see, we are trying to schedual meets while having a casual conversation

[Supersprynt]

A Happy Birthday thread is a little different than "I'm done with work and I have nothing to do so lets make a pointless conversation to pass the time" thread.

[hongkongnerdboy]

how are they different? you guys say we should jus take it to some sort of IM program, couldnt yall do the same?

[D-Man]

I like happy birthday threads. They make people feel so old. And loved

This post has been edited by D-Man: Mar 13, 2008 - 1:20 PM

[njccmd2002]

A Happy Birthday thread is a little different than "I'm done with work and I have nothing to do so lets make a pointless conversation to pass the time" thread.

how are they different? you guys say we should jus take it to some sort of IM program, couldnt yall do the same?

it would be great to congratulate every member on its birthday, i would be, but my BD has passed. Some forums automatically shoot e-mails. A BD is part of something important, it happens once a year. I like it when i get an email from coke, sprite and other forums.

Its nice.

[hongkongnerdboy]

but you guys said our thread was "pointless" our thread like i said has been trying to make a couple meets with casual conversation. while the bday thread has no information. and what makes it so important? its just another day and other people have the same bday as you

[Batman722]

why do you argue with everyone so much ??

casual conversation is great on IM or a phone or in person or in a chat room. Post up a meet thread in the appropriate forum then.

the birthday thread has people saying happy birthday to Tina and she shows something she got. Someone then commented on it. That is very very different than 19 pages of chatter. If you can't see the difference then I really don't know what to say

edit : spelling, I don't want erik to correct me

This post has been edited by Batman722: Mar 13, 2008 - 1:30 PM

[speedfeen]

at this point it seems like ppl are feuding again...


i think we might have to close the thread if its just goign to bicker back and forth, it was very mature otherwise...

i know a forum that has a flame thread...why dont we just creat one where when your mad you can post there and keep it outta the rest of the forum

feen

This post has been edited by speedfeen: Mar 13, 2008 - 1:42 PM

[D-Man]

at this point it seems like ppl are feuding again...


i think we might have to close the thread if its just goign to bicker back and forth, it was very mature otherwise...

i know a forum that has a flame thread...why dont we just creat one where when your mad you can post there and keep it outta the rest of the forum

feen

Yeah, but can we weed it out of the "View New Post" action? Because i dont really wanna be reading pointless flamers flaming each other. lol.

[vincent_doggy]

Chit and chat at the following might be a good idea:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2366728359

seems 2 quiet there

[MaskedMan]

What I don't understand are the double standards. When there was this dispute, most of the complaining members were told, "if you don't like it, then don't post or leave." But then why do people feel the need to complain about my thread? If they don't like it, couldn't they simply just not post and let it be? I have contributed to the site and have helped many members out. It's not like all I do on here is create random threads and post whore all day long. I joined to be a member of the community, and I feel we should all be treated the same. I answer any questions directed towards me, I always answer questions left by the new members when I am able to. I would just like to keep the peace, I try to mind my own business, but when people come to my thread and tell me that my friends and other SoCal members talking is just useless banter, then I become bothered. I feel as if it is in the correct section. It's not fully a meet discussion and a lot of the talk on there would be off topic. Which is why the thread is located in off topic.

If there is a rule about it that I'm breaking, then please add it to the rules of the off topic section. How else am I or other members supposed to know that a rule is being broken without it being clearly stated.

[96bluevert]

^^^ you know MM, I didn't mean to critisize you're thread in OT, I was just pointing out that aim or msn or something would work alot better for general chit chat and is easier b/c you don't have to refresh the page . But I see why you might prefer it since you don't HAVE to be online at the same time and don't waste pms. I still think a "chatbox" or chat room would be benefitial to this site.

[speedfeen]

thats okay masked man I too had a conflict with a few members about a thread and got accused of E-Flirting, but i just dropped it cause i didnt want to start anything. Ppl can think what they want but yeah i do agree with the PM's and chats but its harder at work when you dont have chats and where PM's do get tiring easily!

feen

[Defgeph]

Ok, I have a little bit of time. I'll address a few more things.

Now I see we are talking about two threads in Off Topic. Let's briefly take a look at both of those threads.

• Topic One: The title is Happy Birthday Tina, there was no subtitle added. These types of threads are typically what you would find in the Off Topic section of 6GC. Generally they last about 5 pages or so.
  
  So, Happy birthday Tina. Page One of that thread Yay!! everyone wishes her a happy birthday. Page two Birthday over, stragglers still wishing happy birthdays. Then she discusses what she did for her birthday and what gifts she received from friends and loved ones. Page three, oh wait, there is no page three. Let em go back to page two. Still on topic, last time I checked yes it is.
  
  
• Topic Two: The title is I'm done with work, but I still have to sit here until my shift is over. OK, great. for the most part a shift usually lasts 8 to 12 hours roughly. The date the thread was started, December 6th 2007. Today's date is March 13th 2008. Thats a very long shift.
  
  Lets see waiting to get out of work lets say you have 3 hours to go. How many pages you racked up for December 6th 2007. 14 posts where made from December 6th, I also added in the 7th as well. This thread should have died right there. You are obviously home from work. Its been two days, since the thread started.
  The thread continues on for hours, days, weeks, I can't believe this as I type it, MONTHS.
  
  I think we have been more than fair in dealing with this topic.
  
  You bring up the fact that you are discussing plans for a meet. Great!. We have a section devoted just for that subject. Its located in theMeets/Events Discussions.

I hope we can come to some sort of understanding. This thread is really getting more ridiculous as we go.
I am waiting for somebody to complain that the forum borders are blue.

As ridiculous at this some of this seems to me we still take the time to have a discussion about it.

Thanks for the time,
DEF

[lagos]

Lets see waiting to get out of work lets say you have 3 hours to go. How many pages you racked up for December 6th 2007. 14 posts where made from December 6th, I also added in the 7th as well. This thread should have died right there. You are obviously home from work. Its been two days, since the thread started.
The thread continues on for hours, days, weeks, I can't believe this as I type it, MONTHS.

Who cares? Why is it an issue how long a thread goes on for? I will admit that I haven't read a single post in there, but as long as people aren't breaking any rules or insulting eachother, then it shouldn't be a problem. You have to understand that once in a while, some of the users of this site want a chat room style thread to have some fun in. As long as its in offtopic and no one is being rude, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Again, I haven't read that thread, but I can see how some people on here would want to just have a random chat, and not just talk about how to fix/turbo their car.

[Defgeph]

I have been contacted Via Report a post constantly about this thread. The conversation in that thread is more suitable for AIM or Myspace. Places designed to live out your online life as you please. This is not the place for that.

This is not coming from only me. Again, members have made plenty of comments to me about this. And we still let it go. This place was not designed to be an after school hang out. It was designed to be the best resource for the 6th Generation Celica. Not the greatest off topic site since Ebaumsworld.

[95st-celica]

Lets see waiting to get out of work lets say you have 3 hours to go. How many pages you racked up for December 6th 2007. 14 posts where made from December 6th, I also added in the 7th as well. This thread should have died right there. You are obviously home from work. Its been two days, since the thread started.
The thread continues on for hours, days, weeks, I can't believe this as I type it, MONTHS.

Who cares? Why is it an issue how long a thread goes on for? I will admit that I haven't read a single post in there, but as long as people aren't breaking any rules or insulting eachother, then it shouldn't be a problem. You have to understand that once in a while, some of the users of this site want a chat room style thread to have some fun in. As long as its in offtopic and no one is being rude, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Again, I haven't read that thread, but I can see how some people on here would want to just have a random chat, and not just talk about how to fix/turbo their car.

this brings up a good point....i know coomer isn't around as much anymore but i think a chat room/something of that nature should be added to the site...below off topic...where you can go in and talk with other people on the forum about different things....i know this seems like a stretch becasue it takes a lot of time to make it but it would be a nice addition to the community and i think it would keep a lot of "pointless threads" out of the information part of the site

[speedfeen]

THE BORDERS ARE FREAKIN BLUE AND I DONT LIKE IT!



i am just kidding....


THIS CAN GO ON FOREVER and EVER.....were never going to please everyone!!! I am personally getting frustrated, not to the point im pissed but just that not everyones going to be happy and yes maybe some chages need to be made but we need to work as a team cause right now im not so sure were a "community" I mean ACTING like a community right now... if you know what I am saying...

This post has been edited by speedfeen: Mar 13, 2008 - 3:42 PM

[Defgeph]

You bring up a good point 95st. Lets make a chatroom, so we can just put all the pointless topics and conversations in there. Sounds great in theory, but I see it as making more room for wasted space.


Do you guys realize we are having a serious discussion about pointless topics ?
Am I the only one that thinks this is a little crazy. We are debating on where to allow pointless ranting, useless posts, and other e-garbage on a Car specific website.

[hongkongnerdboy]

why would they have a problem with the post? its not like we're bashing them or talking sh!t about them.

or do they just feel as if they need to butt in and try to close the thread? or maybe, they just jealous that they dont have anyone they can talk to like that on this forum? thats the only reason i can think of since if someone gets jealous of something they try to disrupt them like little kids do when they get jealous

if it was car specific there wouldnt be a need for an off-topic section. might as remove that then

This post has been edited by hongkongnerdboy: Mar 13, 2008 - 3:46 PM

[95st-celica]

i think we are acting like a community...this is what community's do...wtf???...if nothing was ever addressed then it would go on and on and we would just continue to lose members because of it...a profesional group like this discusses the problems at hand and comes up with a constructive way to take care of it...what they dont do is say this could go on forever and ever and ever and just get tired of it and lock the thread...thats not very constructive but destructive....if thats the case then nothing will ever get solved....i think that if the mods are a little more leinent...dont make smart comments before they close threads and dont talk down to other members like they were never a noob noone will have a problem

[Chanh55]

It's off topic though? How much talk can there be about 6gc? People need a place just to hang out and talk amongst their 6gc buddies. Not everyone is online at the same time so AIM chatrooms aren't the answer.

[lagos]

I have been contacted Via Report a post constantly about this thread. The conversation in that thread is more suitable for AIM or Myspace. Places designed to live out your online life as you please. This is not the place for that.

This is not coming from only me. Again, members have made plenty of comments to me about this. And we still let it go. This place was not designed to be an after school hang out. It was designed to be the best resource for the 6th Generation Celica. Not the greatest off topic site since Ebaumsworld.

What was said in there that was not appropriate?
Offtopic forums are just that...off topic to what the main site is about.

I normally dont take any part in threads like that... and again, haven even read the one I'm referring too. But if people want to start a "Happy birthday tina", or "hey wants everyone up to" threads... then they should be allowed to. The members of this site are very well behaved for the most part. As long as people dont start a flame war or bash other members, then it shouldn't be a problem.
If there is an outstanding rule against that, then maybe coomer should be contacted to revise that rule. I mean, we cant all just say "thats how it is, so live with it". This site would be nothing without its members, and if they bring up a point, it should be considered.

This post has been edited by lagos: Mar 13, 2008 - 3:54 PM

[Defgeph]

OK aim is a bad example. But Myspace can do the job just fine.

[95st-celica]

You bring up a good point 95st. Lets make a chatroom, so we can just put all the pointless topics and conversations in there. Sounds great in theory, but I see it as making more room for wasted space.


Do you guys realize we are having a serious discussion about pointless topics ?
Am I the only one that thinks this is a little crazy. We are debating on where to allow pointless ranting, useless posts, and other e-garbage on a Car specific website.

def...i agree with you....i think that the off topic pointless post like happy birthday and after work or whatever serves no purpose to the 6gc community at all....so we should decide....do we want to have a section for offtopic so people can talk about nothing at all related to the 6gc...or do we completely do away with all off topic discussion and be extreamily strict with just 6gc information....thats the question...we cant have an off topic section and bitch at people who are using it..you know? its kind of pointless...either do away with it completely...or keep it....but dont close it for no reason...do you see what im saying?

[speedfeen]

i didnt mean it harshly to anybody

WHAT I MEANT WAS

arguing about pointless crap....is un-community like

which means NOT so friendly...not in a bad way what so ever!! I knw we want to fix it I was just saying what is happening right now IS NOT WORKING!

[Defgeph]

Is this pointless 20 page thread still open Art ? Yes, it is. We are still allowing them to have their fun.

It is an example to show you that I do not agree with the thread, but I continue to leave it open. I guess I should abuse my "powers" and close it. That would make everyone think.

[Defgeph]

When a topic is closed in Off topic is for a few different reasons. Bashing, bickering, flaming, inappropriate material. Things of that nature. It is never with out reason.

Like I said earlier if there is a particular thread that was closed that you started, and you'd like to know why it was closed PM one of us. We can explain it for you.

[Supersprynt]

This isn't about what thread is more pointless than the other. This is about How Do You Use Off-Topic? Do you use it like a chatroom, then get an AIM chatroom because here at 6gc.net, that is frowned upon. Or do you use your pointless thread as just that, a thread thats online and you don't post every two seconds?

One persons pointless is anothers important, I dont think that'll ever be resolved, but I think the major problem we're seeing is how do you use your free server space & bandwidth while your here.

[lagos]

Is this thread pointless 20 page thread still open Art ? Yes , it is. We are still allowing them to have their fun.

It is an example to show you that I do not agree with the thread, but I continue to leave it open. I guess I should abuse my "powers" and close it. That would make everyone think.

Right... and im glad you kept it open despite saying that you dont agree with it.
Im just saying to keep an open mind to what the people of this community are asking for. We have some really awesome members here that are VERY well behaved and they are not really asking for a whole lot.

[GriffGirl]

Man oh manichevitz. When will the insanity end...

[njccmd2002]

Man oh manichevitz. When will the insanity end...

never, its human nature. That why we are calling this a debate. Everybody states their point of view.

We will see in the end what improvements can be done.

[97lestyousay]

It is a trade off, either you have other members flaming people(would cut down useless threads) which
we do not do, or you have the designated bad guy (moderators). I personally love the site the way it is.
I think Manny and Jeff do a great job. Think about what they have to deal with. Would you want to do it?
No one is perfect at making every decision right everytime. For the amount of stuff they deal
with I think they make the right call 95% of the time. Someone is always going to complain and there will
always be conflicts like this. My suggestion is learn from it, get over it, and move on. The rules are not
changing anytime soon.

[D-Man]

Okay, we can do this all day long. In the end, Coomer owns and pays for this site. The moderators that have been chosen to run the site are doing so by his say so. We can b!tch about it all day long, and guess what, They dont have to do sh!t about it.

I was one of the biggest "attackers" on the last thread, And it was all in hopes that someone would take that with them when the thread was over. There is a such thing as a dead thread; and this one is there.

I agree with everyone who wants a chat room, i've offered to wright the script myself. Fine. If Coomer wants to implement it, Fine. If not; Fine. It is his website, and he can wipe his ass with it if he wanted to.

I know this is a somewhat hyprocritical post on my behalf, but the point of these threads was to bring items to the attention of specific mods. Okay, it has been brought to their attention. They know. They will rather do something about it, or they wont.

If you people keep flaming mods and their management methods, they are going to be less inclined to help; having the feeling of "p!ss off" to everyone who is antagonizing them. Repeating yourselfs and others is not going to help.

Our point has been stated, done. Stop restating, We dont repost do we? (okay well sometimes, but it's not a good idea to echo yourself's and each other.)

Sorry, but this thread is getting old already, And this is coming from me, You've all read my .02 cents; and here is another few pennys for ya

[presure2]

Okay, we can do this all day long. In the end, Coomer owns and pays for this site. The moderators that have been chosen to run the site are doing so by his say so. We can b!tch about it all day long, and guess what, They dont have to do sh!t about it.

I was one of the biggest "attackers" on the last thread, And it was all in hopes that someone would take that with them when the thread was over. There is a such thing as a dead thread; and this one is there.

I agree with everyone who wants a chat room, i've offered to wright the script myself. Fine. If Coomer wants to implement it, Fine. If not; Fine. It is his website, and he can wipe his ass with it if he wanted to.

I know this is a somewhat hyprocritical post on my behalf, but the point of these threads was to bring items to the attention of specific mods. Okay, it has been brought to their attention. They know. They will rather do something about it, or they wont.

If you people keep flaming mods and their management methods, they are going to be less inclined to help; having the feeling of "p!ss off" to everyone who is antagonizing them. Repeating yourselfs and others is not going to help.

Our point has been stated, done. Stop restating, We dont repost do we? (okay well sometimes, but it's not a good idea to echo yourself's and each other.)

Sorry, but this thread is getting old already, And this is coming from me, You've all read my .02 cents; and here is another few pennys for ya

i agree. i think everyone who wanted to say what they had to, did.
we as mods are taking what opinions were voiced in this thread, and are working on making 6gc a better place for all of us to come, learn, and help each other learn about the 6th gen celica.