Please explain, 3SGE Options

[6G96GT]

What is this engine? I've just come across it and am interested. I like that it is NOT boosted, right?? I have a 96 GT with the 5SFE. How do I get the 3SGE? Is it a standard swap? What else do I need and exactly what is it again?? I know there is a Gen 3 with 173 hp? Please clue me in...

[MercuryFree]

It's the JDM Celica engine...fitted in SSII/SSIII etc. There's the normal one with 173-177hp (depending on year as they changed it down at one point due to emissions) and then the newer red top 'beams' model with VVT and ?198?hp.

[6G96GT]

Is it relatively inexpensive (under 2G's) to obtain? Will it work with my 1996 Celica GT (5sfe) without any modding or tranny swaps? Thanks!!

[rjbibeau]

the beams is like 3 grand.

[blckcelica95]

Is it relatively inexpensive (under 2G's) to obtain? Will it work with my 1996 Celica GT (5sfe) without any modding or tranny swaps? Thanks!!

id say it possible but high unlikely, since your car is obdII i would think it would be in the 3g range . The tranny will work.

[goferris]

the tranny will work but you will most likely get another (better with LSD) tranny with it if it's a redtop out of a SS-III. just search 3sge on ebay and you should find one. they are pretty pricey considering you can get a 3rd gen 3sgte for about the same price which will have a higher Hp rating due to the turbo setup. if you want NA though the B.E.A.M.S. Redtop is the way to go.

[Rusty]

my 3S-GE (3rd gen) in my SS-II

a bit of info has ACIS induction (changes the size of the intake runners from small to large, which improves high torque throughout rev range 'simular sound' to v-tech when high reving, but if you get bigger cams/ internal work you can keep the sound )
long cam degree and high lift, 2.0L, 16 valve, twin cam & gears, stock extrators, pretty good engine in my opinion



'obdII' what that on about?

[parriehunter]

'obdII' what that on about?

I think it is "on board diagnostics" Plug into a computer or some reader and will give error codes.

[crandsberry]

Yea the OBD-II is a bunch of exta sensors stuck on the engines after 1996 to make sure we dont mess with any of the emissions stuff here in the US.

I guess you SS-II guys dont have any of that? they dont plug ya into a comptuer to see if you are running clean?


6G96GT i say if you dont have emssions testing in NH, you should go for it, the 2nd and 3rd gen have loads of potential for NA power and are a third the cost of a Beams

But if you do have emissions inspection, just forget about it if youve got a '96. It will be more headache and money than its worth, trust me ive been researchin the swap for my car for months now.

[Penkka]

It's the JDM Celica engine...fitted in SSII/SSIII etc. There's the normal one with 173-177hp (depending on year as they changed it down at one point due to emissions) and then the newer red top 'beams' model with VVT and ?198?hp.

Not 100% right, as there are also other countries than Japan and Usa. The 3S-GE was available on celicas every where else, just not in the states.

[blckcelica95]

Yea the OBD-II is a bunch of exta sensors stuck on the engines after 1996 to make sure we dont mess with any of the emissions stuff here in the US.

I guess you SS-II guys dont have any of that? they dont plug ya into a comptuer to see if you are running clean?


6G96GT i say if you dont have emssions testing in NH, you should go for it, the 2nd and 3rd gen have loads of potential for NA power and are a third the cost of a Beams

But if you do have emissions inspection, just forget about it if youve got a '96. It will be more headache and money than its worth, trust me ive been researchin the swap for my car for months now.

nh has "emission testing" well sort of . its really just a diagnistic check on the cars computer to make sure the arent any problems with the car but they do fail if the car has been messed with. UNLESS you know someone who dose inspections

[6G96GT]

my 3S-GE (3rd gen) in my SS-II

a bit of info has ACIS induction (changes the size of the intake runners from small to large, which improves high torque throughout rev range 'simular sound' to v-tech when high reving, but if you get bigger cams/ internal work you can keep the sound )
long cam degree and high lift, 2.0L, 16 valve, twin cam & gears, stock extrators, pretty good engine in my opinion



'obdII' what that on about?

NICE!!

[Bitter]

my 3S-GE (3rd gen) in my SS-II

a bit of info has ACIS induction (changes the size of the intake runners from small to large, which improves high torque throughout rev range 'simular sound' to v-tech when high reving, but if you get bigger cams/ internal work you can keep the sound )
long cam degree and high lift, 2.0L, 16 valve, twin cam & gears, stock extrators, pretty good engine in my opinion



'obdII' what that on about?

how do you change sparkplugs on that engine? you have to pull the upper intake manifold it looks like.

[Rusty]

lol thanks and thats an old picture..

this is slighty newer


real easy to change spark plugs
just remove starting at the bottom: sump, conrod, pins and pistons
& then use a Rachet with 2x extensions and unscrew from the top, remember to replace pistons after changing spark plugs.

[parriehunter]

lol thanks and thats an old picture..

this is slighty newer


real easy to change spark plugs
just remove starting at the bottom: sump, conrod, pins and pistons
& then use a Rachet with 2x extensions and unscrew from the top, remember to replace pistons after changing spark plugs.

HAHAHA Awesome, unfortunately i do not think many people on this forum will understand that .

[Penkka]

thats an old picture of my 3S-GE, it durrrrty but I guess you can handle it.

[Rusty]

^^ and usually its the same guys wanting to do the 3S-GTE swap lol

Yeah to the 3S-GE

[Penkka]

I dont wanna swap, in 2 years Im planning to buy a GT4
Actually friend of mine is selling right now, but I dont have the cash :S

[6G96GT]

I want that 3S-GE!! I found one with a 5 spd manual tranny, ECU, and uncut wiring harness. It's supposed to have 47K on it and comes with a 3 month warranty if professionally installed. It's $2,800.00 (that includes the shipping and handling). I'm ready for it but I really need to know if it will directly swap right into my 96 GT without any modifications to get it in. I absolutely DO NOT want a 3sgte at all. No offense to the guys that have em, I guess I'm just "cursed" with turbo engines or something cause I get nothing but sh*t when I have em.

This post has been edited by 6G96GT: Mar 26, 2008 - 2:36 PM

[blckcelica95]

I want that 3S-GE!! I found one with a 5 spd manual tranny, ECU, and uncut wiring harness. It's supposed to have 47K on it and comes with a 3 month warranty if professionally installed. It's $2,800.00 (that includes the shipping and handling). I'm ready for it but I really need to know if it will directly swap right into my 96 GT without any modifications to get it in. I absolutely DO NOT want a 3sgte at all. No offense to the guys that have em, I guess I'm just "cursed" with turbo engines or something cause I get nothing but sh*t when I have em.

the motor drops right in but the harness has to be modifid. i think.,Things like the ingniter and so on need to be swapped. if you use the stock tranny you need a custom clutch 3s pressure plate, modifed clutch disc.for the s54 tranny. if you use the tranny that come with the 3s . you may need custom drive axles but im not sure about that one.

[scothaniel]

I've bought 2 x 3rd gen 3SGE's in the past 3 years. First one came with complete harness, ecu, trans, brakes, suspension and part of the exhaust for $1000. 2nd one was a partial, no harness or ecu, no suspension or brakes. That was $250 shipped.

If you get a complete setup, installation is a snap. Ignitor, coil, map sensor, injectors - all the same as the 5SFE. The standard trans is the same as the S54 in the US GT Celicas, but with a different final drive ratio. It uses the same engine mounts as the 5SFE. The only issue is the RHD wiring harness, which needed some moving / extending to fit in the LHD car.

There's also a rare 3SGE setup with the e-series trans w/ limited slip and superstrut suspension. The trans is nice, but then your looking at the same headaches as the MR2 trans install. The superstrut suspension is awesome for road and hard track, but its EXPENSIVE to maintain. The control arm setup alone is around $1800.

This post has been edited by scothaniel: Mar 26, 2008 - 4:04 PM

[6G96GT]

thanks for the info!! That's good stuff to know. I've finally decided exactly what I want to do.

This post has been edited by 6G96GT: Mar 27, 2008 - 4:33 AM

[Rusty]

till then you have our engine shots to drool over

[Penkka]

I've bought 2 x 3rd gen 3SGE's in the past 3 years. First one came with complete harness, ecu, trans, brakes, suspension and part of the exhaust for $1000. 2nd one was a partial, no harness or ecu, no suspension or brakes. That was $250 shipped.

If you get a complete setup, installation is a snap. Ignitor, coil, map sensor, injectors - all the same as the 5SFE. The standard trans is the same as the S54 in the US GT Celicas, but with a different final drive ratio. It uses the same engine mounts as the 5SFE. The only issue is the RHD wiring harness, which needed some moving / extending to fit in the LHD car.

There's also a rare 3SGE setup with the e-series trans w/ limited slip and superstrut suspension. The trans is nice, but then your looking at the same headaches as the MR2 trans install. The superstrut suspension is awesome for road and hard track, but its EXPENSIVE to maintain. The control arm setup alone is around $1800.

Number one. There are tons of 3S-GE:s with LHD, I think theres actually more LHDs than RHD. Think about the world; there really are other countries than USA, Iraq and Japan.

Number two. I´ll give you one guess to fin out, who has the superstrut and it is now squeeking like a horny woman, so I guess its about to break down.

Thats all <3

[6G96GT]

till then you have our engine shots to drool over

You bastard but soon enough i will have the same engine in my engine bay too.

[blckcelica95]

till then you have our engine shots to drool over

You bastard but soon enough i will have the same engine in my engine bay too.

let me know when you start the swap. i wanna come over and see.

[crandsberry]

thank you penkka for bringing some LHD st202 representation to 6GC! i dont think enough people noticed that from ur engine pic.

[Kadett]

thank you penkka for bringing some LHD st202 representation to 6GC! i dont think enough people noticed that from ur engine pic.

I have a ST202 as well Only with a bit of change's.

BTW I would swap to a E56 (the FWD E serie tranny) anyday if I could. Build in LSD and shorter first/second gear. Only downside for me would be to ditch the Tein setup because tein doesn't sell separate front legs. BTW the install wouldn't give any headaches at all, the shifter linkage is correct, you only need GT4 or GT SS shifter cables to make it work.

I'm in desperate need of a LSD. Cant stop spinning up to 3rd and sometimes 4th gear now .

[6G96GT]

till then you have our engine shots to drool over

You bastard but soon enough i will have the same engine in my engine bay too.

let me know when you start the swap. i wanna come over and see.

No Prob. I already called up the mechanic I want to handle the swap and he'll probably fit me in early in May.

[raise]

Can the 3SGE BEAMS engine be used with an automatic transmission? Can you fit the auto transmission from the 5SFTE onto a redtop BEAMS 3SGE?

I'm asking because I like the idea of the extra horsepower but in all honesty, I'll never go back to manual for my daily driver.

[Penkka]

Can the 3SGE BEAMS engine be used with an automatic transmission? Can you fit the auto transmission from the 5SFTE onto a redtop BEAMS 3SGE?

I'm asking because I like the idea of the extra horsepower but in all honesty, I'll never go back to manual for my daily driver.

Toyota Altezza RS200´s have the 210bhp beams and was available with tiptronic.

[Rusty]

Yea you can run an auto on a redtop beams (they do come out with them) what auto tranny do you run atm?

[manphibian]

REEEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYY don't think you'd be getting the best out of the beams with an auto. You need to rev the nuts off it to get the power. Swapping in a Beams with an auto setup is a waste of money imo.

[raise]

Yea you can run an auto on a redtop beams (they do come out with them) what auto tranny do you run atm?

I have a stock automatic 1997 GT with the 5SFE. Just bought it last week and titled it this morning. I always wanted this car but I had relegated it to something I wouldn't buy since it was mostly impractical until now.

Yes I know it might seem a waste to many to want to continue to use an automatic transmission when considering an engine swap but I really like the body style of the 6'th gen Celica and I know I'll have to replace the engine at some point as it has over 139k on it already. I may as well continue the hobby/fun factor and replace it with something that has a bit more power but that doesn't mean I have to compromise on the convenience I want out of my daily driving vehicle.

I'd get more oomph and performance by tearing out the AC too but I'm not doing that either

This post has been edited by raise: Mar 16, 2010 - 6:02 AM

[6G96GT]

You won't have to replace the engine anytime soon, I have 187K with just the head rebuilt (only did that from bad valve seals so I figured I would do the whole head since it was torn down anyway). My block runs STRONG with no leaks, clean oil every time I change it, and no smoke. My PSI is great and it run nice and smooth. If you treat it right, you shouldn't have to touch it until about 175K (and by then, prolly just valve seals).

This post has been edited by 6G96GT: Mar 18, 2010 - 4:05 PM