Toyota's best naturally aspirated engine, what is it? Options

[Hanyo]

Bored and was browsing the web and got me thinking.

What is toyota's best naturally aspirated engine? What has the most tuner support? This doesnt nessary need to fit into our celica that is why its off topic.

So far what i read about is the 2jzge with intake vvti which makes around 220 hp.

[jason]

4age - older, but stood the test of time, best engine for its era

id also agree on the 2jzge, but power to weight, id think the 4a wins, or the 3sge beams even

no technical reasons, just my current thoughts

[MaskedMan]

I believe the blacktop 3sge is one of their better engines. I like the 2UR-GSE mmmm .

[MercuryFree]

1uzfe/3uzfe

[Kwanza26]

2JZGE!? 1/3UZ!? Not even close.

If by "best" you mean most powerful n/a motor, then you have to measure it by HP per liter. There's only 3 motors that come to mind.

Blacktop Beams 3SGE, rated around 200hp out of 2 liters... Blacktop 20V rated around 160hp out of 1.6 liters, and the 2ZZGE rated at 180-190hp out of 1.8 liters. No other Toyota 4 banger can touch these...

As far as V6's go... the new GR series is by FAR the best (V6) toyota has ever built. Excellent fuel economy, great power, excellent torque curve, lightweight.

As for V8's... IS-F... nothing else (toyota) comes close.

[saleeka]

I'm hoping we see more motors from Toyota with their new "Valvematic" system in the near future (3ZR-FAE). It's like BMW's Valvetronic technology. Mabey it will find it's way in a performace application? It's still only Japanese market technology, sadly...

[playr158]

Blacktop Beams 3SGE, rated around 200hp out of 2 liters... Blacktop 20V rated around 160hp out of 1.6 liters, and the 2ZZGE rated at 180-190hp out of 1.8 liters. No other Toyota 4 banger can touch these...

I whole heartedly agree here (as i'm getting older I find us agreeing more often )
I just wish I could fund that motor right now

[jazzcornet]

im a diehard 3s fan, but i would have to say the 4aeg was one of the greater motors. not 4age, but 4aeg. look it up

[Kwanza26]

im a diehard 3s fan, but i would have to say the 4aeg was one of the greater motors. not 4age, but 4aeg. look it up

You know those aren't just random letters/numbers in Toyota engine codes right? How can a "4aeg" be great and not a "4age"? Lol... anyway...

[xs94st]

wtf is a 4aeg.

[jazzcornet]

4a denotes the block code. the 4 tells you that it is a 1.6L displacement block. the "a" denotes the blocks mating features. the ge denotes the head type. "g" means high-er flowing head and the e means it's a dohc.

similarly, the 3s and 5s have the same block but different displacement. hense why the heads will mate to either block. the fe is the lower flowing head and the ge is the higher flowing head. the "eg" head is pretty special. run a search for it. (t is obviously for turbo and z is obviously for supercharged)

[MaskedMan]

4a denotes the block code. the 4 tells you that it is a 1.6L displacement block. the "a" denotes the blocks mating features. the ge denotes the head type. "g" means high-er flowing head and the e means it's a dohc.

similarly, the 3s and 5s have the same block but different displacement. hense why the heads will mate to either block. the fe is the lower flowing head and the ge is the higher flowing head. the "eg" head is pretty special. run a search for it. (t is obviously for turbo and z is obviously for supercharged)

Your information is a bit inaccurate. Perhaps you should go run a search.

[808celica]

wtf is a 4aeg.

duhh xavy its toyotas 12 cyc. 10 turbo engine they have in the prius car










is there really a 4aeg engine though ???????

[xs94st]

i dont think there is a 4aeg.

toyota had 4a-e's, but those pushed a whopping 75hp.

i think its the 4age/ze he's talking about.

[jazzcornet]

im not going to do your homework if you dont believe me. but just a simple google search netted me thousands of results on the 4aeg.

it even has aftermarket support

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/C...n-149533050.htm

edit: what was the swapped engine in the AE86 in Initial D?? anyone know?

This post has been edited by jazzcornet: Apr 27, 2008 - 8:10 PM

[Culpable04]

I'm not a engine savy but everything I find seems to be a typong error

the Corolla GT-S was the sleeper and bargain of the group. Its 16-valve, 4AEG twin-cam, which was also used in the original MR2s and as the basis for a Toyota Atlantic engine, is still one of the coolest engines ever made.

the header you showed seems to be for a 4age as well.



you can also do a search for 3sget and you'll have a lot of results as well, dont take this in a negative way, we may be missing something here or you may be confuse.

[jazzcornet]

^^ i stand corrected. i found a few sites that had differing info and a comparison of the 4age and the 4aeg. what i didn't realize is that the damn european's were calling the 4agze the 4aeg. i should've known when they were comparing the compression and the ignition timing advance. i apologise for making a complete ass of myself

[808celica]

AHHhhh!!! too much numbers and letters............. i didnt say you were wrong or anything. i didnt even know that engine existed.......i watched initial d but im not those kids who would die for an hachi just to copy what he seen in a cartoon. i just simply asked "is there really a 4aeg engine???"

This post has been edited by 808celica: Apr 27, 2008 - 11:07 PM

[Culpable04]

^^ i stand corrected. i found a few sites that had differing info and a comparison of the 4age and the 4aeg. what i didn't realize is that the damn european's were calling the 4agze the 4aeg. i should've known when they were comparing the compression and the ignition timing advance. i apologise for making a complete ass of myself

you did not make an a$$ of yourself, you were misinformend and you realized it and accepted, that on my boox is part of being a winner.

[vincent_doggy]

I luv my 3seg engine... but red top beams 3seg by yamaha would be better...

[Akimbo]

4age

[Hanyo]

well the main reason i asked this is because i was comparing engines.

like the 2zzge apears to be toyota's solution for the All motor fans.

But there doesn't seem like there is support for them.
I would say the 2zzge competitor is the B18c5 engine ( integra type R).

But when you look more into it, the B18c5 gets more upgrades and other mods that can make it push out more hp. While the 2zzge seem stuck.

Next step would to be "choose a different engine"

Black top beams 2 liter 3sge. ~210 hp

Again honda puts out the 2.1 liter f22c, a new engine with more uptoday technology making 237hp.

it seems hopeless (or atleast not cost efficent) to get a rev happy toyota engine.....

[GriffGirl]

So not to jack the thread, sorry if it's a thread jack but it's related which is why I'm asking...

What engine/engine configuration would be the most efficient swap for a 7A then? By efficient I mean most HP and good gas mileage. Would it be a straight 20v swap, or would that even be necessary? Would a 7AGE be a better configuration? Or would adding turbo to a 7A be the best of both worlds, (theoretically) only blowing your gas mileage when booooooosting {to get laid}?

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

simple,
20 valve 4a-ge
2zzge
1gz-fe (5 litre v12 anyone )

[Celicaguy13]

The 2zz-ge is the best toyota n/a 4 cylinder produced. Yes the beams 3sge has more power on paper, but the 2zz makes similar if not more whp. plus it is better designed all around. If someone is going to argue with this, please include technical reasoning because i'm tired of seeing dry reasons.

[shortydragon]

7A-FE!!!

no? damn, nevermind...

This post has been edited by shortydragon: Jul 29, 2008 - 4:08 PM

[Celicaguy13]

Lol 7afe isnt even the best gas saver motor.

[Taskbot]

3M

Haha in all seriousness everybody is right, however the thread is not going to go anywhere unless we throw new ideas out.

So I nominate the Yamaha tuned 3M from the Toyota 2000 GT as the best n/a Toyota engine ever.

Aside from that, Formula Atlantic 4A-GE, JGTC 4A-GE 20V, 2ZZ-GE and the Beams 3S-GE

[Dr_Tweak]

If we're talking about any size of engine, then I would have to say that the 2GR-FSE out of the IS350 is probably the best n/a engine built by Toyota, the power they make is pretty impressive....

If we're talking 4-cylinders only, then yeah, I'd probably opt for a blacktop BEAMS if I had my choice. Seems like with a standalone and some good mods it would be able to push out some good power.

I realize this part of the discussion is over, but I found this a little bit funny:

So not to jack the thread, sorry if it's a thread jack but it's related which is why I'm asking...

What engine/engine configuration would be the most efficient swap for a 7A then? By efficient I mean most HP and good gas mileage. Would it be a straight 20v swap, or would that even be necessary? Would a 7AGE be a better configuration? Or would adding turbo to a 7A be the best of both worlds, (theoretically) only blowing your gas mileage when booooooosting {to get laid}?

Something tells me that you don't have any problems getting laid

Anyways a 20v blacktop would be my first recommendation, it's simple, clean, gets good mileage, and makes great power.

-Doc


This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Aug 4, 2008 - 1:54 PM

[GriffGirl]

No, I have no problems getting laid!

That was a reference to someone's signature on here (don't remember whose) that says "Boost gets you laid". I just think it's funny... like some chick is gonna be like Oh, I didn't know you had a turbo! Well in THAT case...

20v blacktop is actually what my first choice would be for a swap. I hear they're difficult to come by though, so a silver top would probably be a more likely candidate. One of these days I'm gonna do it. It would be such an awesome project and learning experience for me. (but then again I said that about my power window conversion, for which I'm still having no luck with!)

[Dr_Tweak]

That was a reference to someone's signature on here (don't remember whose) that says "Boost gets you laid". I just think it's funny... like some chick is gonna be like Oh, I didn't know you had a turbo! Well in THAT case...

20v blacktop is actually what my first choice would be for a swap. I hear they're difficult to come by though, so a silver top would probably be a more likely candidate. One of these days I'm gonna do it. It would be such an awesome project and learning experience for me. (but then again I said that about my power window conversion, for which I'm still having no luck with!)

I'm not sure what you mean, that happens to me all the time....

The blacktops aren't HARD to come by, they're just more expensive. You can get them in 6-speed though

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Aug 4, 2008 - 4:57 PM

[DEATH]

"Boost gets you laid". I just think it's funny... like some chick is gonna be like Oh, I didn't know you had a turbo! Well in THAT case...

Actually...... I know a few

The blacktops aren't HARD to come by, they're just more expensive. You can get them in 6-speed though

Yes Yes! To Tweak you listen!
I still say 4A-GZE because of parts availability and because I love me some boost the most and I really really want to twin charge one!
[Yes I know this s a N/A thread but we're talking about a specific swap and we're off-topic as usual]

This post has been edited by DEATH: Aug 4, 2008 - 5:22 PM

[GriffGirl]

Well of COURSE I'm gonna listen to Tweak. He hasn't steered me wrong yet!

6 speed, huh? That is worth whatever extra money it would cost. That would SO be worth it. It should already be a 6 speed IMO, it's actually one of the biggest complaints I have about my car to date is the gear ratios.

[aflacattack]

for power and everything revolving around it... without a doubt, hands down, you cant argue this... is the RVX-08 and gearbox. you cant beat it, unless you own a Ferrari, Renault, Honda, or anything else at the same level... hehehehe

[Taskbot]

Well of COURSE I'm gonna listen to Tweak. He hasn't steered me wrong yet!

6 speed, huh? That is worth whatever extra money it would cost. That would SO be worth it. It should already be a 6 speed IMO, it's actually one of the biggest complaints I have about my car to date is the gear ratios.

My complaint aswell. Especially the fact that the GT has tighter ratios compared to ours. They make more power, they should get the wider gearing , STs should come standard with super-close rally transmissions.

[95CelicaST]

By far the 4A-GE 20v. You all haven't experienced the wonders that is ITB's. That motor by far is Toyota's best.

[Celicaguy13]

The blacktop 3sge is so freakin rare, you can't even get info for that thing. From what i've seen so far though, it's a good motor. But I guess since i've owned a 2zz celica.. I'm addicted to Lift haha

BTW Here's a 20v mr2 vs a stock Corolla 2zz.
20v mr2 vs corolla XRS

And here is a 2zz mr2 on the dyno
Mr2 2zz dyno

And another
mr2 2zz

Haha sorry guys.. I think this engine sounds sweeet.

This post has been edited by Celicaguy13: Aug 6, 2008 - 12:56 AM

[Taskbot]

The blacktop 3sge is so freakin rare, you can't even get info for that thing. From what i've seen so far though, it's a good motor. But I guess since i've owned a 2zz celica.. I'm addicted to Lift haha

BTW Here's a 20v mr2 vs a stock Corolla 2zz.
20v mr2 vs corolla XRS

And here is a 2zz mr2 on the dyno
Mr2 2zz dyno

And another
mr2 2zz

Haha sorry guys.. I think this engine sounds sweeet.

the 2ZZ is awesome but there's just something about the 20V 4A.

I don't care how much of a bitch they are to tune, I love ITBs.

[95CelicaST]

The blacktop 3sge is so freakin rare, you can't even get info for that thing. From what i've seen so far though, it's a good motor. But I guess since i've owned a 2zz celica.. I'm addicted to Lift haha

BTW Here's a 20v mr2 vs a stock Corolla 2zz.
20v mr2 vs corolla XRS

And here is a 2zz mr2 on the dyno
Mr2 2zz dyno

And another
mr2 2zz

Haha sorry guys.. I think this engine sounds sweeet.

the 2ZZ is awesome but there's just something about the 20V 4A.

I don't care how much of a bitch they are to tune, I love ITBs.

They're not hard to tune at all. If you've got a Blacktop it'll run open ITB's all day because the MAP sensor is tapped into the throttle body just before the butterfly valve. It pulls accurate readings without any problems. Silvertop uses AFM, so that is a pain, unless you get BT electronics and convert to MAP. I know the local Toyota place in Washington has adapter plates with the lines already tapped to make it all pain-free, but it's pricey.

And the 2ZZ might br faster, but just because it's faster doesn't mean it's better. ITB's have this note to them that sounds so beefy. You can hear each cylinder firing off in the low RPM's. You don't get that from any other setup.

[Taskbot]

The blacktop 3sge is so freakin rare, you can't even get info for that thing. From what i've seen so far though, it's a good motor. But I guess since i've owned a 2zz celica.. I'm addicted to Lift haha

BTW Here's a 20v mr2 vs a stock Corolla 2zz.
20v mr2 vs corolla XRS

And here is a 2zz mr2 on the dyno
Mr2 2zz dyno

And another
mr2 2zz

Haha sorry guys.. I think this engine sounds sweeet.

the 2ZZ is awesome but there's just something about the 20V 4A.

I don't care how much of a bitch they are to tune, I love ITBs.

They're not hard to tune at all. If you've got a Blacktop it'll run open ITB's all day because the MAP sensor is tapped into the throttle body just before the butterfly valve. It pulls accurate readings without any problems. Silvertop uses AFM, so that is a pain, unless you get BT electronics and convert to MAP. I know the local Toyota place in Washington has adapter plates with the lines already tapped to make it all pain-free, but it's pricey.

And the 2ZZ might br faster, but just because it's faster doesn't mean it's better. ITB's have this note to them that sounds so beefy. You can hear each cylinder firing off in the low RPM's. You don't get that from any other setup.

You know what? You're right, it probably is easy to tune (if you have a blacktop). But in all honesty when I think of the 20V I always think of the Silvertop. Sometimes I even forget the Blacktop exists. The Blacktop always seems unattainable to me so I don't even consider it as a swap in my Celica especially since I will never have the money to get one AND if I did I'd rather have an AE111.

But when it comes to engines without an ITB setup already, I hear its a HUGE pain in the ass. (or a good time, if you're someone who likes to tweak **** )