rwd...yes another thread, new option? Options

[playr158]

Ok, so i'm the crazy mod whore. I like things that waste money and are more than unfeasible.

practical discussion:

for a RWD setup. who has experience with IS300s.
I have been thinking that their rear end might jus work.
$250 for a cross memeber
$300 for a diff
$100 for a drive shaft
then you need control arms, ect. but you get a rear end brand new for lets say under a grand including everything
size/dimensions/shape issues?

they have the toyota typical 3-point strut hats so they potentially up top could slide right in (as if that was a major obstacle )

discuss...

This post has been edited by playr158: May 13, 2008 - 8:30 AM

[stephen_lee]

the IS300 i believe is about the same width of our car, i would really like to see this tried
what engine would you use?


how is your RHD conversion going?

[playr158]

RHD has been completed for several months.

[devilsden97]

what engine would you use?

black top beams


Isnt the wheelbase on the IS300 longer then the Celica, the drive shaft will be to long?

honestly, i think the TRUE way to go about RWD, is st205 rear end, and some how, disable the FWD on the AWD tranny. (...idk how to do it, or if its possible, but IS300 parts sounds like a dangerous path)


edit: IS300 Wheel base: 105.1 in. (2669.54mm) 6gc: 1060mm (41.732283465 in.) i understand its not a direct traslation between wheelbase and driveshaft, but...distance is distance.

This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 13, 2008 - 12:06 PM

[playr158]

what engine would you use?

black top beams


Isnt the wheelbase on the IS300 longer then the Celica, the drive shaft will be to long?

honestly, i think the TRUE way to go about RWD, is st205 rear end, and some how, disable the FWD on the AWD tranny. (...idk how to do it, or if its possible, but IS300 parts sounds like a dangerous path)

you can't just disable part of a transmission. and I don't think the ST205 rear end can withstand the full force of a motor (i think its roughly 60% from the factory?)

custom drive shafts are cheap too

[devilsden97]

So what engine and tranny do u plan to use? (i dont recall the tranny for RWD 3sgte, i believe there is one tho)

[playr158]

don't know what version of the 3s motor i will use...IS300 rear = 3sge black top, other = 3rd gen 3sgte

[devilsden97]

don't know what version of the 3s motor i will use...IS300 rear = 3sge black top, other = 3rd gen 3sgte

ah right. 3sge rwd tranny from a black top??? is that what you're implying? sounds logical, but ALOT of difficultites to over come with the rear suspension work alone.


edit: grammar

This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 13, 2008 - 12:59 PM

[trd-celica]

how about mr2 tranny i've heard they put it in 3sgte swaps if that the engine your going to use

[devilsden97]

how about mr2 tranny i've heard they put it in 3sgte swaps if that the engine your going to use

MR2 is layed out like a celica...in reverse.

what i mean is that the Mr2 has no rear diff. its very similar to a FWD car, because the motor is in the back.

This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 13, 2008 - 2:48 PM

[BloodyStupidDave...]

MR2 is layed out like a celica...in reverse... because the motor is in the back.

So do that, then You could get a lot of luggage under the Celica bonnet if the engine wasn't there

[Defgeph]

Who says you need to use a Toyota rear end. Why not look into a domestic rear end? Anyway you look at this project you are doing everything custom. There are a million more parts that are interchangeable & cheaper from domestic vehicles.

Sticking a wider rear axle in the car and widening out the rear quarter panels would be very cool. This would also give you that RWD look.


If I were you, and I wanted to retain the look of a 6th gen. I buy and AE86 swap the body panels from the 6th gen, swap in a 3sgte, call it a day.


good luck

[jason]

im with jeff.

you could prolly get away with a 3s swap and is300 trans, but you might as well go for a more powerful starting engine. why not stick a v8 in there, and bui.d the trans/driveshaft/rear from a hot rod recipe.

if people can replicate a cobra for under 30k, why ouldnt you replicate at least the trans/rear end options for less than say 3k?

imagine how sick it would look like jeff said with the rear quarter panels widened out by like 4 inches, and a nice bump in the hood molded in that's raised by like 6 inches.

then down the road you can always sc that engine and be making weel over 600 hp for about the same as you could in getting the 3s to 400

[playr158]

don't want to put domestic parts on an import.
attempting to stick to all toyota origin parts

hot rods and road course racing don't go together. IS300 = independant rear
plus if you use a blacktop beams its already matched to the IS300 rear in terms of gearing.
Domestic parts you have to start looking more into correct gear ratios, more custom fabrication and such.

my project actually has very little custom pieces that are completely distinct from anything else.


the blacktop is also a great NA road course motor (you don't need a billion and 1 horsepower) the ~200 some odd hp it produces is good + modifications it should be a great motor to use.

its not just about big hp #s, its about purpose building


and mentioning a V8 = retarded

This post has been edited by playr158: May 13, 2008 - 5:15 PM

[CelicaST_CALI]

get a chain

[808celica]

cant you do the same way subarus go rwd by doin something to the tranny, like weld shut the part where the front axles go??? or im just imagining something...........

[JDM_Factory]

why not stay away from 4 bangers and go with a VZ mr MZ v6 motors, better torque and you're able to twin turbo them. Also parts are cheaper on these, since they are available everywhere. I just finish my 3vz swap on customer mr2 and I have to say it's a whole new story. I'm already planning to take out my 3s and put a 3mz instead.

I don't know how you're going to fabricate to have the RWD tranny to fit in there, but good luck!

This post has been edited by JDM_Factory: May 13, 2008 - 10:06 PM

[cjh4l22]

removed comment due to pure stupidity and me not thinking clearly when i typed it...

This post has been edited by cjh4l22: May 16, 2008 - 10:10 AM

[playr158]

why not stay away from 4 bangers and go with a VZ mr MZ v6 motors, better torque and you're able to twin turbo them. Also parts are cheaper on these, since they are available everywhere. I just finish my 3vz swap on customer mr2 and I have to say it's a whole new story. I'm already planning to take out my 3s and put a 3mz instead.

I don't know how you're going to fabricate to have the RWD tranny to fit in there, but good luck!

cause i can achieve the same power goals with a smaller motor?
i would use a 3sgte cause its fully plug and play for my car
or a blacktop 3sge because its one of the best NA motors (plus full drivetrain available)

road course racing major tq numbers are not needed...3sge blacktop isn't a TQ motor anyways.
3sgte single turbo will be more efficient. 3sgte power goal is roughly ~500whp pump

you can't juse use a FWD tranny turned sideways
and FYI 1 of a kind doesn't win races, function wins races

as for fabrication....tranny tunnel = cut + weld !? they aren't terribly difficult to fabricate

The whole concept behind the use of the IS300/RS200 rear end is that its still toyota, looks to be fairly similar to the ST205 rear, and has the correct gear ratios to be compatible with the black top 3sge + 6spd transmission. Gear ratio & rear diff properties being the major pros.

This post has been edited by playr158: May 13, 2008 - 10:20 PM

[cjh4l22]

you can't juse use a FWD tranny turned sideways
and FYI 1 of a kind doesn't win races, function wins races

hey i didn't think so. but with all the odd suggestions (v8? seriously..) thought i'd throw it out there..

[CelicaST_CALI]

i love how dan beats down noobs

[lagos]

and mentioning a V8 = retarded

3sgte power goal is roughly ~500whp pump

Dan, I know I almost ALWAYS give you hard time...and I really don't mean anything bad by it, but these kinds of threads have been beaten to death. If its going to be a "anything is possible" kind of discussion, then lets just go all out and shoot for 1,000hp 3sgte.

[devilsden97]

and mentioning a V8 = retarded

3sgte power goal is roughly ~500whp pump

Dan, I know I almost ALWAYS give you hard time...and I really don't mean anything bad by it, but these kinds of threads have been beaten to death. If its going to be a "anything is possible" kind of discussion, then lets just go all out and shoot for 1,000hp 3sgte.

Hasnt the 1khp 3sgte been done? (i lie its like 7xx in a supra)

[purplegt4]

Tom's supra!

[playr158]

and mentioning a V8 = retarded

3sgte power goal is roughly ~500whp pump

Dan, I know I almost ALWAYS give you hard time...and I really don't mean anything bad by it, but these kinds of threads have been beaten to death. If its going to be a "anything is possible" kind of discussion, then lets just go all out and shoot for 1,000hp 3sgte.

haha they have but its fun every once in awhile. Not anything is possible its very money limited
but come on i said 500 on pump! I want high 600s on race gas and a 250 shot of nitrous with an electric supercharger...should make it to the 900s!!!!!!!

although i was serious discussion about the size of the IS300 rear sub vs the st205 rear sub. That could be pretty cost effective and close to fit.

This post has been edited by playr158: May 14, 2008 - 7:55 AM

[stephen_lee]

you should find a wrecked IS300 to get the rear end cheap and just try it already!

[lagos]

The only cost effective way to have a 500hp rwd celica would be to buy a Supra and throw some headlights on it.

[devilsden97]

The only cost effective way to have a 500hp rwd celica would be to buy a Supra and throw some headlights on it.

Like that hasnt been tried b4... lol my bad other way around.

dude, get some numbers, crunch them...see if its AT all feasible. if it is.. Do it.

end of discussion.

[stephen_lee]

its possible, but decide if you want to spend the money and try it. you could very well end up with a fun RWD celica

[sous710]

if you do do it. take lots of pics and make a how to. cuz that would be something i would be interested in. best of luck bro.

[playr158]

The only cost effective way to have a 500hp rwd celica would be to buy a Supra and throw some headlights on it.

supras are heavy. plus i like the curren look better

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

... edit : seen answer to my question already. lol

This post has been edited by SoundSlut_dotcom: May 14, 2008 - 6:46 PM

[playr158]

geeze you newb

[crandsberry]

Our cars do seem to have an unusual amount of space from radiator to firewall, gotta keep the dream alive!

[playr158]

Our cars do seem to have an unusual amount of space from radiator to firewall, gotta keep the dream alive!

its not the space of the engine bay i'm concerned with, there is plenty of that. Its the actual room for the transmission (goes between the driver and the passenger and through the firewall.

[jgreening]

i said 500 on pump!

Unless by pump gas you mean E85, you are not going to make it on a 3sgte. To my knowledge, its never been done. I have seen 400whp with superior intercooling and water injection on traditional pump gas.

This post has been edited by jgreening: May 16, 2008 - 9:00 AM

[jason]

what i dont get is why you hacked the crap outta a celica for a 'road course' purpose car

why not just build your own frame, then stick your own lite weight body panels on it, find whatever engine makes the most power that weights the least and rig up your rwd system.

for this custom of a car, exactly what class are you planning on running this car in? it would almost need to go into some form of prototype class.

why not specify your goals so everyone can help you better.

the v8 was mentioned because this is another worthless thread. i cannot see this rwd being successfully done to 100% track standards without breaking or being off to some degree. seems like this is a pissing contest for the craziest modded car.

3s engine 2000

rear end from lexus 1000

trans 500

thats 3500

for that you can get your own race ready say... 289-302 engine pushing 400 hp with trans and custom trans back setup to whatever specs you would like. yea it will weigh more, and be bigger, but your putting this in a celica, not an f1 car or a go cart.

[playr158]

what i dont get is why you hacked the crap outta a celica for a 'road course' purpose car

why not just build your own frame, then stick your own lite weight body panels on it, find whatever engine makes the most power that weights the least and rig up your rwd system.

for this custom of a car, exactly what class are you planning on running this car in? it would almost need to go into some form of prototype class.

why not specify your goals so everyone can help you better.

the v8 was mentioned because this is another worthless thread. i cannot see this rwd being successfully done to 100% track standards without breaking or being off to some degree. seems like this is a pissing contest for the craziest modded car.

3s engine 2000

rear end from lexus 1000

trans 500

thats 3500

for that you can get your own race ready say... 289-302 engine pushing 400 hp with trans and custom trans back setup to whatever specs you would like. yea it will weigh more, and be bigger, but your putting this in a celica, not an f1 car or a go cart.

hack the crap out of? so far all i have are OEM parts from the 6th gen celicas? Not terribly custom

building a complete car do you even know whats required for that? or where it would even but you in classes? nobody does that except ooooo factory prototype teams.

Plan to compete in the same class as the BMW 3 series MOD car i work on.
How can you not see rwd being done? Its been done many a time before just not on our cars all too often.

and if its worthless don't post? i dunno

as well as HP is not a major #1 factor. you don't have to have a billion and one hp, power curves, gearing, weight, aerodynamics, and suspension all play integral parts in making a fast car. With massive amounts of HP you have to be able to effectively put it to the ground otherwise you are only half decent in the straight aways and then you'll watch 150hp cars kick your butt in the corners

This post has been edited by playr158: May 16, 2008 - 9:40 AM

[jason]

i forgot, dan is the best driver, car builder, everything in the world which is why he hangs out on 6gc

post pics when your rwd track car is finished

the suprica used all oem parts... therefore it wasnt all hacked up by your logic

[playr158]

i forgot, dan is the best driver, car builder, everything in the world which is why he hangs out on 6gc

post pics when your rwd track car is finished

the suprica used all oem parts... therefore it wasnt all hacked up by your logic

never said i was the best driver just stated there is more to it than HP.

but suprica was far from all OEM parts that entire front was made up of aftermarket pieces sans headlight and hood. Should get facts straight

[jgreening]

[the] suprica was far from all OEM parts .... that entire front was made up of aftermarket pieces sans headlight and hood.

Bondo is technically aftermarket, I guess

[playr158]

[the] suprica was far from all OEM parts .... that entire front was made up of aftermarket pieces sans headlight and hood.

Bondo is technically aftermarket, I guess

Bondo, Fiberglass, invader front bumper, Bomex front bumper, Z3 style VIS fenders, Invader rear bumper, invader side skirts, Aerospeed coilovers, custom catback exhaust, TWM short shifter, velox wheels......damn all that looks oem to me?!

But /off-topic discussion

theory was IS300 rear subframe & accessories, reasonably within size limits ect.

This post has been edited by playr158: May 16, 2008 - 11:30 AM

[jgreening]

Nobody cares whether it was OEM or aftermarket. It was a piece of sh!t that was discarded once completed. And, given the amount and size of the fantasies in this planned build, it will either suffer the same fate or never be completed at all. /thread. /discussion about fantasy hack-job car

[playr158]

mhm...boo hoo you made me cry

nobody cares about a incomplete version of a car 4 years old that doesn't exist any more.... get over it old fart

This post has been edited by playr158: May 16, 2008 - 1:36 PM

[lagos]

nobody cares about a incomplete version of a car 4 years old that doesn't exist any more.... get over it old fart

Dan, people are giving you so much crap because you've been doing nothing but talking about this. I remember talking to you 4yrs ago about this same topic, and you told me "just wait, in 2yrs it will be done". Here we are 4yrs later with another thread full of unrealistic plans and zero progress.

If you really DO plan on building a rwd celica (of any hp), then START WRENCHING! So far Ive seen you spend about 500bucks on that curren front end, and thats about it. You have huge goals (rwd+500hp), yet you try to nickle and dime a rear end. This is starting to remind me of all those posts Mac used to make back in the day about the super amazing celica he was going to have because the typical swap sucks so much. Nothing ever came of that either.

I expect weekly updates, with pics from now on!

This post has been edited by lagos: May 16, 2008 - 1:55 PM

[playr158]

nobody cares about a incomplete version of a car 4 years old that doesn't exist any more.... get over it old fart

Dan, people are giving you so much crap because you've been doing nothing but talking about this. I remember talking to you 4yrs ago about this same topic, and you told me "just wait, in 2yrs it will be done". Here we are 4yrs later with another thread full of unrealistic plans and zero progress.

If you really DO plan on building a rwd celica (of any hp), then START WRENCHING! So far Ive seen you spend about 500bucks on that curren front end, and thats about it. You have huge goals (rwd+500hp), yet you try to nickle and dime a rear end. This is starting to remind me of all those posts Mac used to make back in the day about the super amazing celica he was going to have because the typical swap sucks so much. Nothing ever came of that either.

I expect weekly updates, with pics from now on!

I don't realese all my pics and there has been steady progress in the creation of this car. Though i never remember saying two years, I've always assumed a 5+ year completion of project, i don't have the funds to complete in 2 years. Sadly though, I've been occupied fabricating parts for a racecar i work on and not given much time to work on my own car and when i get time to work on my stuff normally its spent lately rebuilding the head on my motor and prepping the bike for races. Celica is a 3rd priority at the moment, I'm enjoying the research aspect of this project right now, learning the mechanics and engineering + how to correctly set stuff up > doing stuff blind.


Building isn't all about wrenching though, I've been consistently researching suspension application components and which motor + tranny setup i would like to go with. This is a very difficult aspect of this build since so much of the car depends on it. My friend owns an IS300 and will be boosting it shortly while its down for that i'll be taking measurements and figuring out how "compatible" the parts are. currently i'm concentrating on firewall parts (brake/clutch/gas/support beam) restoration as much of it came with lots of rust.

fyi a lot more than $500 has been spent on this car already. yall assume too much

This post has been edited by playr158: May 16, 2008 - 10:04 PM

[jgreening]

mhm...boo hoo you made me cry

nobody cares about a incomplete version of a car 4 years old that doesn't exist any more.... get over it old fart

Sorry for the delay in responding, I was looking for my Geritol. Danny, I am sorry that I offended you. I was trying to help you out by maybe getting you to think about whether you are wasting your time and money in such a silly endeavor. I shouldn't have made the crack about the suprica. It wasn't even that funny since everyone familiar with that project already has made their own conclusions. Peace.