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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
On a quarter mile at race track X
A ST204 swapped with a 3SGTE 3rd gen + LSD tranny from MR2 (lighter but FWD with LSD) VS A ST205 with a 3SGTE 3rd gen (heavier but AWD) who would normally win? and dont tell me ''well it depends on the driver and blablablablabla''. I'm talking about perfect conditions, who would smoke who? -------------------- |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 14, '06 From MN, USA Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) ![]() |
ST205 owns due to traction.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 24, '07 From Oahu, Hawaii Currently Offline Reputation: 23 (100%) ![]() |
yeah i dont even have to think. unless its a bone stock 205 and like a 800hp swapped
![]() ![]() -------------------- I don't normally drive fast, but when I do its on a curvy section of this island
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
ST205 owns due to traction. X2 ![]() Traction is more important that a lot of people think. This post has been edited by ETNRIDER: May 29, 2008 - 12:34 PM -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
St205 would be faster in the 1/4 because of awd.
St204 would be faster on the street "from a roll" because of less drive train loss. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
St205 would be faster in the 1/4 because of awd. St204 would be faster on the street "from a roll" because of less drive train loss. Really? I wouldn't have guessed that, but I don't really know that much about all the details!! ![]() -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Mar 8, '04 From Newport, RI Currently Offline Reputation: 63 (99%) ![]() |
I disagree.
Jeff with a 185 in his ran a 13.9 at the track I have seen posts with st205s overseas that run 14s a swapped to st205 FWD will beat an AWD st205 any day of the week on the 1/4 mile. edit:post to back me up http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30188 This post has been edited by Batman722: May 29, 2008 - 1:57 PM -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
I disagree. Jeff with a 185 in his ran a 13.9 at the track I have seen posts with st205s overseas that run 14s a swapped to st205 FWD will beat an AWD st205 any day of the week on the 1/4 mile. edit:post to back me up http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30188 agreed. weight is a factor. the awd will have you for... like the first 60 feet then youll slowly creep by. -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
Anyone got any vids of a race like this? I doubt it but you never know.
I see Batman722 link now. This post has been edited by ETNRIDER: May 29, 2008 - 2:12 PM -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '03 From Rockland NY Currently Offline Reputation: 15 (100%) ![]() |
BPU swapped FWD would win against a BPU ST205. Weight and drive train loss would be the two major factors in this race.
But this is only at the BPU stage. Once you go past 275-300HP, 205 takes the cake. -------------------- ![]() I will return one day. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
I disagree. Jeff with a 185 in his ran a 13.9 at the track I have seen posts with st205s overseas that run 14s a swapped to st205 FWD will beat an AWD st205 any day of the week on the 1/4 mile. edit:post to back me up http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30188 I guess its open to debate. imho AWD generally should run a better time because of the insanely low 60foot times it can achieve vs a fwd car. Thats why you often see stock subarus get impressive times 1/4mile times, yet loose to slower fwd cars on the street. Traction rules the 1/4mile. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 18, '08 From Houston Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) ![]() |
but it's still heavier. The AWD gets better traction, true, but the FWD has less weight.
I say we get the 2 on the track and watch ![]() -------------------- QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM) Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW! Damn D-Man - most impressive. D-Man's post should be a sticky LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
but it's still heavier. The AWD gets better traction, true, but the FWD has less weight. I say we get the 2 on the track and watch ![]() I guess in the celica world, this might hold true. I mean, look at the piss slow st185. Then again, I dont think most celica guys are good track drivers. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
but it's still heavier. The AWD gets better traction, true, but the FWD has less weight. I say we get the 2 on the track and watch ![]() I would love to see that!!!! ![]() -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 5, '03 From South TX. Currently Offline Reputation: 14 (100%) ![]() |
The 6th gen celica acually launches like a bat outta hell for a FWD.....when i took it to the track it would always leave other FWD's behind at the 60foot...
I even have video proof against the SS S/C ![]() ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 11, '08 From Auckland, New Zealand Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
what the real question is ... is 400 metres really enough to catch a gt-four? a car length behind is more than nothing when you're 2000 rpm behind and struggling to gain traction
-------------------- Mike W
1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOUR GT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC 269awhp / 273ft-lbs |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 8, '05 From torrance/carson, ca Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) ![]() |
both stock and the fwd with lsd under "perfect" conditions... i think it'd be pretty damn close. but once you start adding more power, awd would definitely own.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Jun 13, '07 From U.K Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Im already loading my gt4 st205 awd on a carrier and ill be over to the USA to settle this once and for all.... who's up for the challenge????? First though i gotta do the shopping and tidy the house!!!
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 9, '05 From Under the car Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I disagree. Jeff with a 185 in his ran a 13.9 at the track I have seen posts with st205s overseas that run 14s a swapped to st205 FWD will beat an AWD st205 any day of the week on the 1/4 mile. edit:post to back me up http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=30188 As much as it hurts to say this, I would have to agree up to a point....both running stock or near stock power then the FWD swap would win...weight means an awfull lot when it comes to quater mile drags....but once you get past say 300/350BHP then the AWD would be able to put the power down better so would be the winner. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 15, '02 From Tasmania(Australia) Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
stock for stock, or mod for mod 205 will win.
im not just biased, traction owns all. as proof ive beaten 300kw rx7s at the drags because simply of launch. and an rx7 gets more grip then any street fwd. ive also beaten other carsa such as skylines and commodore utes and such. So its no fluke. track has heaps more grip then street. that is all. -------------------- ST205 Group A Rallye GT-Four, #61 of 77............600hp GT3582r
GRX133 Toyota Mark X 350s ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 18, '08 From Houston Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) ![]() |
Im already loading my gt4 st205 awd on a carrier and ill be over to the USA to settle this once and for all.... who's up for the challenge????? First though i gotta do the shopping and tidy the house!!! ![]() talk to member DEATH, he's got a 3s swap and still on FWD. I'd love to watch ![]() ![]() -------------------- QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM) Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW! Damn D-Man - most impressive. D-Man's post should be a sticky LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 10, '04 From Shoreline, WA Currently Offline Reputation: 4 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE Track was unsuprisingly damp which made for a few traction issues, but an excellent day nonetheless. QUOTE while I ran a best of 14.14 sec. Even managed to get the car slightly sideways on run run as it was so slippery out there! ^ quotes from the above listed thread. exsplenation for the slower track times. I just cant agree with the swapped 204 winning, I think a compleatly stock 205 and a stock 204 with 3sgte and mr2 lsd. the 205 would win but probably close, I just cant see the 204 being able to get enough traction off the line to catch up. my 5s sucks at traction as it is with upgraded sup and toyo proxi 4 tires, double the hp and it would be quite difficult to lunch without upgraded susp, and tires. (but I have not driven a swapped 204 or a 205 for that matter so I cant say for sure just my opinion) This post has been edited by creis: May 30, 2008 - 9:15 AM -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
What is an estimate of the weight difference? I wouldn't think it would be over 500lbs, Would it?
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
i raced a vr4 when i was a stock 2nd gen. from a dig. he has more hp more tq and more traction. i passed him before the 1/8th mile out of the 1/4. thats very close to a gt4 but with more power... so?
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jun 13, '05 From Poughkeepsie, NY Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) ![]() |
i raced a vr4 when i was a stock 2nd gen. from a dig. he has more hp more tq and more traction. i passed him before the 1/8th mile out of the 1/4. thats very close to a gt4 but with more power... so? VR4: 3760lbs gt-4: 3298lbs (converted from KG ~1500kg) st204: 2820lbs edit: i suck at english This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 30, 2008 - 11:30 AM -------------------- ![]() Kawi Love |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 10, '06 From Knoxville, TN Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
[/quote]
VR4: 3760lbs gt-4: 3298lbs (converted from KG ~1500kg) st204: 2820lbs edit: i suck at english [/quote] So there is a ~478lbs difference in the GT-4 and the st204. Dang I weigh 300lbs, guess I will always lose in a race!! ![]() -------------------- ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
i raced a vr4 when i was a stock 2nd gen. from a dig. he has more hp more tq and more traction. i passed him before the 1/8th mile out of the 1/4. thats very close to a gt4 but with more power... so? VR4: 3760lbs gt-4: 3298lbs (converted from KG ~1500kg) st204: 2820lbs edit: i suck at english 320hp > 255hp also dont forget that ;D This post has been edited by x_itchy_b_x: May 30, 2008 - 11:53 AM -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jun 13, '05 From Poughkeepsie, NY Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) ![]() |
320hp > 255hp also dont forget that ;D i know this. not doubting your story in anyway. just listing weights. Edit: i listed the vr4 cuz u mentioned it, and many consider it to be a "heavy" sports car. Its just a comparison for the other 2 cars This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 30, 2008 - 11:55 AM -------------------- ![]() Kawi Love |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Mar 8, '04 From Newport, RI Currently Offline Reputation: 63 (99%) ![]() |
QUOTE Track was unsuprisingly damp which made for a few traction issues, but an excellent day nonetheless. QUOTE while I ran a best of 14.14 sec. Even managed to get the car slightly sideways on run run as it was so slippery out there! ^ quotes from the above listed thread. exsplenation for the slower track times. I just cant agree with the swapped 204 winning, I think a compleatly stock 205 and a stock 204 with 3sgte and mr2 lsd. the 205 would win but probably close, I just cant see the 204 being able to get enough traction off the line to catch up. You guys missed the fact that a ST185, NOT a st205 swapped car, ran 13.9. Do you think he had traction issues too ? Yup. Everyone has traction issues at the track, it's more about the driver. Same driver, both good launches, I'd have my $ on the swap. If you had a swapped 204 with a st205 then "in theory" the time would be lower. If you have a stock st205 vs a st204 swapped w/st205, the swapped (500lbs lighter) would be faster/quicker. There is no doubt about it, same mods, or no mods, the swapped solely because of the weight factor would be faster. AWD is great for cornering, in the snow, rallying, ect. but it's heavy... -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 8, '05 From torrance/carson, ca Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) ![]() |
not only does the swap fwd have a weight advantage, but it also has less power loss to the wheel as opposed to awd. i suppose a skilled driver with a swap could take the win, but i'd take the awd over fwd any day.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jun 13, '05 From Poughkeepsie, NY Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) ![]() |
honestly there is a very easy solution to this discussion.
track day: Swaped ST204 (modded [similarly] or stock [ST205]) vs. ST205 (modded [similarly] or stock) 5 runs per car Launch: 2500 3000 3500 xxxx <---Swapped ST204 driver determined xxxx <---ST205 driver determined best runs win. Edit I: yes, there is track conditions, and location (obviously very few ST205's in the USA, but there are plenty overseas.), driver etc..but this would give a basic layout. Edit II: Btw, really good discussion topic, as long as it stays clean. And facts are brought into play, not "hear say". Edit III: Silver94CelicaOwner just swaped his gt....ST205 swap with E153 non-LSD, hed be a pretty good canidate for the ST204 swapped celica, and i believe its relativly unmodified. This post has been edited by devilsden97: May 30, 2008 - 1:43 PM -------------------- ![]() Kawi Love |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
AWD = Rev to 6k - pop the clutch - WIN.
-------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
^ not with only 255 hp. more jump forward then bog back down to 3.5k and slowly climb.
6k is pointless with no boost. it happens to my buddys wrx alllll the time. -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
^ not with only 255 hp. more jump forward then bog back down to 3.5k and slowly climb. 6k is pointless with no boost. it happens to my buddys wrx alllll the time. The point is.... a swapped celica is a faster car then an st205...BUT, awd cars pretty much rule the 1/4. I guess Ive been hanging around with too many subaru/mitsu guys. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 12, '02 From Webster Ma. Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
^ agreed.
![]() lagos did i ever tell you that your awesome? -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
^ agreed. ![]() lagos did i ever tell you that your awesome? You pm everyday to let me know, doh! ![]() -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined May 1, '03 From Michigan Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I totally agree with Lagos. My swapped 6gc is lighter, quicker, and far more fun to drive then my modded ST185, but launching it hard just results in wheel hop and slow 60ft times - and as the boost goes up it just gets worse. Whereas the chubby ST185 just squats and goes.
-------------------- Scott
West Michigan |
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 5, '07 From New Zealand Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE 500lbs lighter so wheres all this extra weight coming from in a GT4? rear axle, drive shaft and diff etc GT4 Best Motoring (Repost video I guess) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8-fBC6XHk has dragging at the end This post has been edited by Rusty: May 30, 2008 - 6:09 PM -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE 500lbs lighter so wheres all this extra weight coming from in a GT4? rear axle, drive shaft and diff etc GT4 Best Motoring (Repost video I guess) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8-fBC6XHk has dragging at the end You have no idea how heavy that rear end is. I remember dragging mine around the shop when I was doing my swap. It was quite difficult to move. BTW, in that vid the gt-4 hit a 13.9. And thats BONE STOCK. Stock cats, exhaust, boost, everything. Throw a downpipe/exhaust and an mbc on it and it wont have any problems hitting at least mid 13s. This post has been edited by lagos: May 30, 2008 - 6:15 PM -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Damn seems like everyone has their own opinion...
Now because of yall i dont know what to do anymore... ![]() Swap a 3sgte around august in my 94 GT... or wait 'till my birthday in january and buy a ST205... -------------------- |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 9, '05 From Under the car Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Damn seems like everyone has their own opinion... Now because of yall i dont know what to do anymore... ![]() Swap a 3sgte around august in my 94 GT... or wait 'till my birthday in january and buy a ST205... Does that REALLY require thinking about...have a swapped Celica or a real GT4....hmmm let me think about that one for a second ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Damn seems like everyone has their own opinion... Now because of yall i dont know what to do anymore... ![]() Swap a 3sgte around august in my 94 GT... or wait 'till my birthday in january and buy a ST205... Does that REALLY require thinking about...have a swapped Celica or a real GT4....hmmm let me think about that one for a second ![]() Being patient is something i've never been able to... And i wanna race this summer ![]() -------------------- |
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Enthusiast Joined May 30, '08 From sydney Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Nov 5, '07 From New Zealand Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE BTW, in that vid the gt-4 hit a 13.9. And thats BONE STOCK. Stock cats, exhaust, boost, everything. Throw a downpipe/exhaust and an mbc on it and it wont have any problems hitting at least mid 13s. yup hats off to the ST20# Celica's ![]() hope to see some vs some subby's and evo's ![]() This post has been edited by Rusty: May 31, 2008 - 4:22 AM -------------------- |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 9, '05 From Under the car Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
slightly off topic, but how about a 205 V NSX.
205 wins by 1 tenth of a sec. ![]() http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqzYG62_kMc |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Jun 13, '07 From U.K Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Anyway, back on topic!!
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Anyway, back on topic!! ![]() A type R is faster than a GT4??? WTF -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 2, '07 From Great Western Plateau Currently Offline Reputation: 9 (100%) ![]() |
The driver must have missed a gear or back down...
-------------------- ![]() 98% completion --- aaRon |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 9, '05 From Under the car Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Never under estimate a tricked out little Civic.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jul 7, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 55 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE 500lbs lighter so wheres all this extra weight coming from in a GT4? rear axle, drive shaft and diff etc GT4 Best Motoring (Repost video I guess) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj8-fBC6XHk has dragging at the end You have no idea how heavy that rear end is. I remember dragging mine around the shop when I was doing my swap. It was quite difficult to move. BTW, in that vid the gt-4 hit a 13.9. And thats BONE STOCK. Stock cats, exhaust, boost, everything. Throw a downpipe/exhaust and an mbc on it and it wont have any problems hitting at least mid 13s. I would think the subframe itself adds a lot of the weight. The "tunnel"(not sure of the actual proper name) portion is designed much more rigid than the flat sheetmetal that is on the 204. I think jeffs 185 is more whp than a 205 the jdm 205 is 251 hp, but that is at the crankshaft. If I remember corrrectly jeff is over 240 at the wheels. -------------------- JDM guy made me do it.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 15, '02 From Tasmania(Australia) Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
whoever thinks 205's weigh 1500 kg is smoking crack.
there is people in the uk that have theirs down around the 1100 mark. full street trim expect a 205 will tip the scales at 1400 absolute max (fuel etc) in a high power fwd you wont be able to get to WOT till 3rd, which is going to be half track. By this time the awd has got the 205 near half a dozen car legnths, Even with a 150kg less and slightly more power to the ground (assuming all mods equal) you wont make the diff up. make it a traffic light drag and its worse because there is even less traction for the taildraggers. like i said before ive beaten a 300kw rx7 on semis, and thats going to get more traction then a fwd. -------------------- ST205 Group A Rallye GT-Four, #61 of 77............600hp GT3582r
GRX133 Toyota Mark X 350s ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined May 12, '06 From Wilmington, NC Currently Offline Reputation: 45 (100%) ![]() |
I think the 205 would win. Jeff's ST185 is a Carlos sainz edition iirc and makes more power than your average 185. probably very close to the power of an ST205 engine. Since I recently bought an ST165, I've been hanging over at alltrac.net and I came across a thread about 1/4 mile times. apparently, a stock 185 runs about a 15.5, but with a 3" downpipe (supposedly adds about 25 hp by itself!) 3" exhaust, an intake, and a MBC, it runs mid to high 13's... and since most people who swap in a 3sgte into their FWD will probably add at least an exhaust, you must equip the ST205 with an exhaust too. now figure that the ST205 makes more power than the ST185, so with the exhaust it probably runs about the same time of mid to high 13's, while the FWD swaps are running high 13's and low 14's... I think the ST205 would win.
-------------------- ![]() 94 GT - Sold -------- 69 Pontiac Lemans - Sold 88 Alltrac - Sold ---- 04 WRX - Sold 00 GT-S - Sold ------ 91 Miata - project/drift car 95 GT - Sold -------- 96 GT - New Daily Drive |
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Enthusiast ![]() Joined Aug 19, '07 From Gold Coast, QLD, Australia Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
stock 205 and 204 with stock 205 engine and that mr2 lsd perfect conditions means the fwd will launch pretty well and should easily pass the 205 by 1000foot mark.....
swaped cars "or gt-twos" arn't that bad to launch in perfect conditions i have even held up good to modded evo 6's back in the day of my st162 swap on crap australian traffic light roads...... and yeah most stock awd cars high revs drop cluthc equals fry of the clutch or a bog down...... also moded both 205 is still not the clear winner....if u gonna go mod the 205 for suspension and launching and all that lots more power you get the same if not more at the wheels power from the 204 cause of the drive train loses (lack off compared to the 205) and the 204 would have some radial drag slicks and even maybe blot a wheel bar and or have some adjustable rear shocks or get springs and make the rear stiff as all buggery and yeah lots of variables but the fwd can get a lot of traction with mods just like modding a 205 and the 204 has the two of the three main factors for 1/4 wins....weight and power the gt-four onyl has traction and as long the 204 gets some of it it will win. but then there is another stage when the gt-four will own and that is in examples like Tuffys 600hp+ 205 for a 204 with 600hp to get the traction needed to beat that even with the weight advantage would take drag slicks and drag suspension set up and a half..... but back to stock for stock with drivers that have owned for a while and know how to get the best from there car...i'll still put my money on the 204 swap. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 18, '08 From Houston Currently Offline Reputation: 7 (100%) ![]() |
Does that REALLY require thinking about...have a swapped Celica or a real GT4....hmmm let me think about that one for a second ![]() x2, even though i believe the swapped (lighter weight) would own, it's nothing compared to a REAL gt-four, w/ modd's like crazy ![]() In your origonal post, you asked how it would be stock. Now you start spending some money and adding some strength; the 205 becomes an extremely powerful machine. Never under estimate a tricked out little Civic. ![]() ![]() there is people in the uk that have theirs down around the 1100 mark. That; my friend, is because they've been modded. The OP askes for stock/similar mods. ![]() EDIT: Well at least as stock as a 204 with the 3sgte swap can be ![]() This post has been edited by D-Man: Jun 2, 2008 - 9:24 AM -------------------- QUOTE (presure2 @ Nov 6, 2010 - 6:16 AM) Via FB: fcuking awsome!!! D-man FTW! Damn D-Man - most impressive. D-Man's post should be a sticky LOL, oh boy, you can always count on D-Man for ridiculously hilarious posts. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined May 22, '03 From NOVA Currently Offline Reputation: 16 (100%) ![]() |
you can't say because each one is different....
and you can't really say "stock to stock" because 1 is never "stock" erroneous arguement |
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '03 From Rockland NY Currently Offline Reputation: 15 (100%) ![]() |
The video you posted is not a Celica at all. That car has a supra engine and transmission, tubbed out rear, tube race chassis. wrapped in fiberglass that resembles a Celica. Not a 204 at all.
The original poster asked which would perform better on a quarter mile track. A ST204 swapped with a 205 engine with an E153 transmission, or a real ST205 with similar modifications. -------------------- ![]() I will return one day. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Feb 11, '08 From Auckland, New Zealand Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
We all know the gt-four would get away 1st, but i dont think 400 metres is enough to catch up. Oh and what's with everyone calling it AWD? its 4WD. They are different. AWD powers 2 axels, 4WD powers 4 axels
-------------------- Mike W
1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOUR GT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC 269awhp / 273ft-lbs |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 19, '07 From tx Currently Offline Reputation: 22 (100%) ![]() |
I gotta say, even tho I own a swap, the GT4 will own the swapped Celica [mod for mod]. You have to give the ST-205 at least a downpipe upgrade and intake upgrade for this comparison to apply - reason being I've not seen one swapped Celica with stock exhaust/intake [granted I've not seen them all either]. Add those two minor [on N/A cars] mods and the 205 will make significantly more power than stock trim.
Another common misconception is that the track has better traction than the street. Depends on the track, depends on the street. Maybe it's just the conditions here in Houston but I can say that the track is not favorable to FWD vehicles. It does however do wonders for RWD and AWD. I've seen swapped Celicas run MR2T's and the MR2 wins both street and track - but the gap is a whole lot wider at the track. I think in theory the 204 should win but in real life I just can't see it happening. The real test would be to have someone who owns both run both so we could reasonably remove driver from the equation. If we could find a stockish 205 here I'd be all down to run him but I wouldn't bet on myself winning. -------------------- ![]() ENGINE: '93 RC 3S-GTE/WRC CT-20b [18-20PSI] PERF: TRD/HKS/ARP/NGK/MSD/ACT/Blitz/STRI/APEX'i/TwosRus/GReddy/Magnaflo/KOYO SUSP: Tein/Bilstein/SusTech/ INT: SS-III SEATS/Toyota Hyper Sports EXT: WRC/TRD/404 Its a safety feature so that people like you don't end up killing themselves or everyone around them. Slow down Paul Walker. 6GC Chat - Go there: [url="http://www.griffgirl.com/forum/chat/index.php[/url] |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 5, '03 From South TX. Currently Offline Reputation: 14 (100%) ![]() |
I hope its not because you still shift the way you did when you bought the car from me
![]() Just messin with ya Matt ![]() BTW....that car should hit a good 13sec run with the new clutch disk grabbin a 14 psi setting ![]() |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 9, '05 From Under the car Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
We all know the gt-four would get away 1st, but i dont think 400 metres is enough to catch up. Oh and what's with everyone calling it AWD? its 4WD. They are different. AWD powers 2 axels, 4WD powers 4 axels I think you`ll find it "IS" AWD. taken from a 4WD site All wheel drive (AWD) is almost the same thing as full time 4WD - it is a system that powers all four wheels of a vehicle at all times as well. Full time symmetric AWD would be the best term to be used. Difference to full time 4WD is that a "4-low" setting is not available in AWD cars. Due to the lack of "low range" AWD vehicles are much less capable in off-road settings than full time 4WD vehicles, but work perfectly well on-road. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 19, '07 From tx Currently Offline Reputation: 22 (100%) ![]() |
I hope its not because you still shift the way you did when you bought the car from me ![]() Just messin with ya Matt ![]() BTW....that car should hit a good 13sec run with the new clutch disk grabbin a 14 psi setting ![]() Nope - I had that shiz down before I left SA ![]() it shift beautifully now with the new clutch [really it shifted pretty well before too] IDK about 13sec run but I haven't turned the boost up yet either. BTW - Do you happen to know if the TVSV is currently disabled and if so how? -------------------- ![]() ENGINE: '93 RC 3S-GTE/WRC CT-20b [18-20PSI] PERF: TRD/HKS/ARP/NGK/MSD/ACT/Blitz/STRI/APEX'i/TwosRus/GReddy/Magnaflo/KOYO SUSP: Tein/Bilstein/SusTech/ INT: SS-III SEATS/Toyota Hyper Sports EXT: WRC/TRD/404 Its a safety feature so that people like you don't end up killing themselves or everyone around them. Slow down Paul Walker. 6GC Chat - Go there: [url="http://www.griffgirl.com/forum/chat/index.php[/url] |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Sweet i just found one for $11,000
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
sorry to bring up an old thread but i believe a swap will win from a roll... on the track if the swap gets a perfect launch it may be close...... what is the stock boost on a 3rd gen? beacuse i smoked a gen 1 awd eclipse and he said he was running 15psi after 3rd he was nowhere to be found
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 14, '06 From MN, USA Currently Offline Reputation: 2 (100%) ![]() |
Psi doesn't matter. Haha.
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
sorry to bring up an old thread but i believe a swap will win from a roll... on the track if the swap gets a perfect launch it may be close...... what is the stock boost on a 3rd gen? beacuse i smoked a gen 1 awd eclipse and he said he was running 15psi after 3rd he was nowhere to be found ![]() But a AWD would launch faster thus reaching is top speed quicker thant a FWD that spins the hell out of his first gear and then starts racing for real... no? -------------------- |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
sorry to bring up an old thread but i believe a swap will win from a roll... on the track if the swap gets a perfect launch it may be close...... what is the stock boost on a 3rd gen? beacuse i smoked a gen 1 awd eclipse and he said he was running 15psi after 3rd he was nowhere to be found ![]() But a AWD would launch faster thus reaching is top speed quicker thant a FWD that spins the hell out of his first gear and then starts racing for real... no? true wheel spin is not your friend |
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Enthusiast ![]() Joined Mar 28, '08 From Washignton Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
I would think the ST205 would win.
For all you guys spouting weight difference (yes FWD would be lighter) are you talking weight with the 3sgte installed or just the stock weight with a 5sfe? 3sgte is heavier than the 5sf. -Terracar -------------------- '92 ST185, '88 ST165, '05 Galant LS, '08 Legacy
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 25, '06 From MN Currently Offline Reputation: 19 (100%) ![]() |
-------------------- "To Protect And To Serve The Wealthy" -POLICE
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
Still what is stock boost on a 3rd gen
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 1, '02 From fall river, ma Currently Offline Reputation: 13 (100%) ![]() |
from a launch, the 4 will grab the lead, and the swap will catch up.
lots more drivetrain loss, and more weight. from a roll, swap owns. -------------------- Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)
![]() 13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 25, '08 From England Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
Well I guess we will see in the spring...wich stock 3rd gen wants to battle the awd celi? New england speedway in the spring?
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 1, '02 From fall river, ma Currently Offline Reputation: 13 (100%) ![]() |
Well I guess we will see in the spring...wich stock 3rd gen wants to battle the awd celi? New england speedway in the spring? hehe im sure jim will be down for that! ![]() -------------------- Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)
![]() 13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
Still what is stock boost on a 3rd gen you have awd, but dont have a boost gauge in the car? -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 23, '08 From boston MA Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (100%) ![]() |
Still what is stock boost on a 3rd gen you have awd, but dont have a boost gauge in the car? Yeah something like that I have it in a box never got around to installing it... when I work on the car I'm replacing other parts or fixing some problem or another.... I know running the boost guage is quite simple just not a priority....because I'm running a stock set up with no cel I figure I'll be good until instal my cam gears and turn up boost....also the main goal was to get the car running smoothly..... wich I can now say it is |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Split opinions... you guys arent really helping me out...
![]() I'm still in the decision of selling my 6gc and buy a gt-4 for $9k or keep the car i bought $8.5k and add another $5k to get the 3s-gte working on it... Each one has their own pros... the gt-4 is awd and requires no mods but my GT-S is LHD but would have upgraded parts from the start. I still need some advise! Keep posting! -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Jan 25, '06 From MN Currently Offline Reputation: 19 (100%) ![]() |
If I had a swapped 3rd gen 3sgte FWD celica even though I know it would be faster then a stock st205 I would rather buy the stock st205 for 9k and mod it. You would be happier with the AWD in the long run plus it'll be a faster, cheaper to mod and a more stable car too.
-------------------- "To Protect And To Serve The Wealthy" -POLICE
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Sep 22, '08 From Bergenfield Currently Offline Reputation: 5 (78%) ![]() |
Well I guess we will see in the spring...wich stock 3rd gen wants to battle the awd celi? New england speedway in the spring? hehe im sure jim will be down for that! ![]() Yeah I bet Hell yea, sounds like a lot of fun. I would love to take a stab at the AWD. As far as stock boost on a GEN3, I believe it is 12psi. --------------------
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![]() Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 1, '02 From fall river, ma Currently Offline Reputation: 13 (100%) ![]() |
If I had a swapped 3rd gen 3sgte FWD celica even though I know it would be faster then a stock st205 I would rather buy the stock st205 for 9k and mod it. You would be happier with the AWD in the long run plus it'll be a faster, cheaper to mod and a more stable car too. X2 just to add to my earlier point, the swap will be faster, to a point. once you pass that point, the '4 will own. where that point IS, we dont really know. -------------------- Former Team 5SFTE pro member ;)
![]() 13.6@108MPH, 5SFTE Powered |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined May 12, '06 From Wilmington, NC Currently Offline Reputation: 45 (100%) ![]() |
If I had a swapped 3rd gen 3sgte FWD celica even though I know it would be faster then a stock st205 I would rather buy the stock st205 for 9k and mod it. You would be happier with the AWD in the long run plus it'll be a faster, cheaper to mod and a more stable car too. X2 just to add to my earlier point, the swap will be faster, to a point. once you pass that point, the '4 will own. where that point IS, we dont really know. X3 and if anyone on the west coast with a 2nd or 3rd gen swapped 6gc wants to go up against my 1st gen 3s powered ST165 after I get a couple goodies to make it roughly the same power output as a 2nd or 3rd gen, I'd be happy to meet you at a track ![]() -------------------- ![]() 94 GT - Sold -------- 69 Pontiac Lemans - Sold 88 Alltrac - Sold ---- 04 WRX - Sold 00 GT-S - Sold ------ 91 Miata - project/drift car 95 GT - Sold -------- 96 GT - New Daily Drive |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Yeah that's what I was thinking too! And anyway, in the long run, my GT-S would cost roughly $13k to be FWD 3S-GTE without "real" mods (like only FMIC clutch pressure plate and flywheel) when the GT-4, with $4k on it would be sick as hell and probably a little faster...
I guess i gotta find someone who wants to buy my car then ![]() ![]() -------------------- |
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Enthusiast ![]() Joined May 10, '08 From missouri Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Sorry to revive a kinda old thread but ive noticed people on here looking at these clips on rpm garage with basically the whole awd conversion. I get excited because it kinda gives me the chance to actually own a GT-4 just fabbed up a little bit but is the awd conversion worth or it or is it better to go e-135 mr2 turbo lsd and then go with some suspension mods to get the power down to the ground.
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 17, '07 From Montreal, QC, Canada Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Sorry to revive a kinda old thread but ive noticed people on here looking at these clips on rpm garage with basically the whole awd conversion. I get excited because it kinda gives me the chance to actually own a GT-4 just fabbed up a little bit but is the awd conversion worth or it or is it better to go e-135 mr2 turbo lsd and then go with some suspension mods to get the power down to the ground. Because the chassis looks way more sexier with a bodykit and a good suspension ![]() -------------------- |
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