SS-III vs ST205 on track Options

[Edophus]

Hi folks thought you might like to see this, some footage thats pretty fun from my last track time, in my ss3 following an st205, my ss3 is fully stripped out with no engine mods, i didnt see the st205 afterwords although i spoke with the owner but never found out what mods he had, but according to my friend who owns an st205 aswell who was there it was running more power than his and he has hks induction/exhaust.

He gets a tiny bit sideways, looked fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWckv2WHqPM

[devilsden97]

SS-III driver is better then the ST205 driver. Plain and simple. ST205 driver is to fast into corners, needs to hit the brakes, then runs wide. SS-III, drives the car into the corner, then powers out....

it would have been closer if the ST205 driver was better


( sorry if i offend anyone with those statments)


edit: oh and on a road course its not all about BHP, its more about cornering, and gearing. There is a video floating around youtube of a BMW E30 M3, with 600+bhp being chased down on a road course by a BMW E46 with stock power.

Edit II: found it because im cool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL86PtxcoiA

Sorry to jack your thread, nice video

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Jun 12, 2008 - 5:08 PM

[Insanity-74]

Are you sure it was a GT4????....I didnt notice any of the rear dif set up or the low slung petrol tank that you get in a GT4????? Looked like a normal celica with a GT4 wing to me???

Nice driving either way.......much better than I could do.

[purplegt4]

gee scoob. get out the way!

nice driving.

[Rusty]

pretty nice cornering, gear changing are sweet. stock SS-III passed a turbo'd subby?

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jun 12, 2008 - 7:02 PM

[gt4uk]

Are you sure it was a GT4????....I didnt notice any of the rear dif set up or the low slung petrol tank that you get in a GT4????? Looked like a normal celica with a GT4 wing to me???

Nice driving either way.......much better than I could do.

agreed,.i would go with normal celica with gt4 raisers too..still nice driving

[Edophus]

Are you sure it was a GT4????....I didnt notice any of the rear dif set up or the low slung petrol tank that you get in a GT4????? Looked like a normal celica with a GT4 wing to me???

Nice driving either way.......much better than I could do.

agreed,.i would go with normal celica with gt4 raisers too..still nice driving

lol i should have known what reaction to expect, how many normal celica's out there can kick the arse out mid corner

I thought the guy was driving pretty well all things considered, and to put things in context i had a major advantage in weight, somewhere in the region of 300kg over a gt-four and better tyres and suspension, i do know from talking to him his suspension was stock, and he was using the power to push the tail round so the car would oversteer on the power, rather than understeer off the track, he was hitting the apex's most of the time but the st205 understeers pretty badly so he still ran wide.

I myself was driving pretty average, i was struggling with a new setup in the rear suspension and i had a new wing which was set at full at that point and was costing me about 15mph down the straight, all in i was about 5 seconds a lap slower than i've driven there before.

[mrgt4]

good driving there, gotta say he couldnt of been gunning it very much and wasnt much of a good driver as ive seen gt4's with proper drivers beating porsche 911's round donington and myself keeping up with a tvr cerbera down the dunlop straight so in terms of if he actually drove fast and proper then i dont think he would be so slow.

but cracking driving there, gotta love videos on board! i need to get me a camera suction thingy!! good video!

[Edophus]

good driving there, gotta say he couldnt of been gunning it very much and wasnt much of a good driver as ive seen gt4's with proper drivers beating porsche 911's round donington and myself keeping up with a tvr cerbera down the dunlop straight so in terms of if he actually drove fast and proper then i dont think he would be so slow.

but cracking driving there, gotta love videos on board! i need to get me a camera suction thingy!! good video!

how do you know the porsche driving wasnt crap lol, why is it this is a gt-four driver must be crap thread? you realise you've just said that a gt-four can beat a 911, and given most 911's are faster than gt-fours thats kinda contradictory.

cant it be that a track prepped ss-3 with coilovers, track tyres, weight reduction including no soundproofing, no aircon, no interior, lightweight seats, harnesses, no stereo etc etc given an equal driver cant beat a stock other than a bit extra power gt-four?? I'm not trying to say one is better than other i just thought it was a pretty cool vid

This post has been edited by Edophus: Jun 13, 2008 - 7:45 AM

[Insanity-74]

And I was only saying that it didnt look like a GT4 for the reasons stated. It is easily possible that an SSIII could beat a GT4 around a track. but I dont think that that car is a GT4....I`m going to the Toyota Sprint Series tomorrow...I`ll film/photograph a GT4 from the rear and you`ll see the differences.

[gt4uk]

I'm not trying to say one is better than other i just thought it was a pretty cool vid

it is ,

i like the circuit...gonna have to see where that is from where i am in the UK..

edit:

damn, its near bristol ;/ bit far for a trackday blast

This post has been edited by gt4uk: Jun 13, 2008 - 8:12 AM

[Edophus]

And I was only saying that it didnt look like a GT4 for the reasons stated. It is easily possible that an SSIII could beat a GT4 around a track. but I dont think that that car is a GT4....I`m going to the Toyota Sprint Series tomorrow...I`ll film/photograph a GT4 from the rear and you`ll see the differences.

fair enough but its definetly a gt-four i did see the car off track, and my mate who had his gt-four there had look around it, engine bay etc! and there was the characteristic puff of smoke between gearchanges just you cant see it thanks to youtube, its quite clear in the original video, i will try and get a still for ya, I've driven and been underneath my mates gt-four so i do know what they look like from all angles and how they go

gt4uk - Combe is a good track, very fast track, i drove down from scotland to drive it

[gt4uk]

gt4uk - Combe is a good track, very fast track, i drove down from scotland to drive it

sod that, croft circuit is close to me, and just as quick bit nasty on a bike tho..bit tooooo bumpy

[Edophus]

gt4uk - Combe is a good track, very fast track, i drove down from scotland to drive it

sod that, croft circuit is close to me, and just as quick bit nasty on a bike tho..bit tooooo bumpy

I'm to much of a girl for a bike

i do have a desire to try every track i can though and croft is on that list!

[gt4uk]

I'm to much of a girl for a bike

i do have a desire to try every track i can though and croft is on that list!

me too now since i am 1/2 an inch narrower on my right side from hitting the floor hard, snappin some bones clean in half....thanks to a nice car driver whos only response was " sorry mate didnt see u there "

just sold my GSXR to clear some debits off to start saving for some new parts for the car

[mrgt4]

how do you know the porsche driving wasnt crap lol, why is it this is a gt-four driver must be crap thread? you realise you've just said that a gt-four can beat a 911, and given most 911's are faster than gt-fours thats kinda contradictory.

cant it be that a track prepped ss-3 with coilovers, track tyres, weight reduction including no soundproofing, no aircon, no interior, lightweight seats, harnesses, no stereo etc etc given an equal driver cant beat a stock other than a bit extra power gt-four?? I'm not trying to say one is better than other i just thought it was a pretty cool vid

too true maybe he was, i know for certain he was gunning it though as i was in the car behind for 2 laps till he finally pulled over after not being able to shake us off. lol


yeah i did just say a gtfour could beat a 911..... and after driving a 997 at donington then driving my four at donington, down the dunlop straight there is no difference in speed, and in the 997 i was being taught the track and on my own in the four. im not saying a standard four could hammer a 911 turbo at all, just a fairly well modded four is a leathal track weapon in the right hands and he looked very slow on the straights and bends.


nor me mate, im not saying either is better, just it looked very slow on the gt4's part, its a cracking video and some cracking driving by the driver with the camera, very impressive.
wouldnt mind driving that track either, looked fun!

everycar has potential to be great, and that video shows how quick you can drive a n/a celica in the right hands. im not saying anything bad at all mate.

[Edophus]

he looked very slow on the straights and bends.

i like to think i looked very fast on the straights and bends

gt4uk - see its bikers telling me things like that thats putting me off them think i'll stick with the car

[mrgt4]

lol, you were mate, like said, cracking driving.

[mrgt4]

a quick shot from the rear



edit... balls, im not sure if its my crap monitor or if its too dark to see the fuel tank.. :S

This post has been edited by mrgt4: Jun 13, 2008 - 9:30 AM

[gt4uk]

a quick shot from the rear



edit... balls, im not sure if its my crap monitor or if its too dark to see the fuel tank.. :S

might be a little dark, all i can see is black...bit more black....is there a tank in there =)

[mrgt4]

lmao, yeah somewhere its in there, fecking shadows, i shall take a pic at some point, i havent taken any new photos for ages!

[gt4uk]

lmao, yeah somewhere its in there, fecking shadows, i shall take a pic at some point, i havent taken any new photos for ages!

torch strapped to your head should give enuff light ( just dont use high tack gaffa tape...)

[manphibian]

Well i believe it's a GT-Four, and you spanked it Edophus....... If in fact that is your real name.....


Zuban!

[Edophus]

Well i believe it's a GT-Four, and you spanked it Edophus....... If in fact that is your real name.....


Zuban!

lol hey there manphibian thanks

[manphibian]

Well i believe it's a GT-Four, and you spanked it Edophus....... If in fact that is your real name.....


Zuban!

lol hey there manphibian thanks

That's Mr manphibian over here if you please. I'm a moderator

[Edophus]

Well i believe it's a GT-Four, and you spanked it Edophus....... If in fact that is your real name.....


Zuban!

lol hey there manphibian thanks

That's Mr manphibian over here if you please. I'm a moderator

sorry Mr manphibian

[l19tly]

i knew it was you zuban ive just seen this vid on celica club lol!

i agree its a gt4 and some cracking driving on your behalf!

a fwd celica cant flick the back end out like that and still maintain some sort of speed!

[Cuts_the_Pilot]

nice driving in the 202. Clearly the weight reduction in thr 202 is a big advantage, big enough to ou weigh the awd turbo powa, possibly, 205s are a 13 second car factory, i doubt a ss3 could get a 15.

clearly the 202 was heaps smoother, hitting the apexs, the 205 driver was all over the show, taking corners wide etc. good driving makes a mc massive differance to times.

the long and the short of it is that shouldnt have happened, at least we they ate the scooby snacks.

[dtlwrc]

Very good driving and very good at taking the corners...! I love the sound of the Beams...!

[Edophus]

nice driving in the 202. Clearly the weight reduction in thr 202 is a big advantage, big enough to ou weigh the awd turbo powa, possibly, 205s are a 13 second car factory, i doubt a ss3 could get a 15.

clearly the 202 was heaps smoother, hitting the apexs, the 205 driver was all over the show, taking corners wide etc. good driving makes a mc massive differance to times.

the long and the short of it is that shouldnt have happened, at least we they ate the scooby snacks.

st205's get great 1/4 mile times partly down to the 4wd knocking seconds off at launch time, once rolling my ss3 being much lighter there really isnt anything in it, stock an ss3 wont crack 15 seconds but i think mine would, with a trap speed over 100mph hopefully!, my old corolla managed bang on 15 seconds at 99mph and my ss3 is faster once rolling, its never been a great car off the line.

The funny thing is the st205 would need to find 5-6 seconds a lap, as i was on average 5-6 seconds a lap slower than i'd managed there before with a car some 100kg + heavier, as i'd made some adjustements that shifted to much weight back over the rear wheels and i was getting loads of understeer, and i was trying a different rear wing out, that for sure made the rear very planted but was costing me about 15mph top speed down the straight.

I think i'll have to rope my freind and his st205 into a drag race and see which one is quicker

oh and thanks for all the comments about my driving chaps!

This post has been edited by Edophus: Jun 29, 2008 - 5:26 PM

[frisp]

Need to let you compare the beams to the V6 when I get her back m8. Handling won't be on par with your beastie though

[Edophus]

Need to let you compare the beams to the V6 when I get her back m8. Handling won't be on par with your beastie though

yes you will

i dunno about handling mine has a tendancy to either try to throw me off the road or ground itself out on some pebbles

[delusionz]

It definitely looked like a gt4 infront to me, nice driving in the ss3.. I've had both cars, i like the cornering in the ss3 because of the superstrut the car turns the corner just as the wheels are pointed nomatter what while the gt4 has the same but its overridden by the rear wheels having the power to kick its arse out.

the gt4 dude wasnt following any racing lines and im puzzled as to why his 2nd gear didnt pull him far away from you out of the medium corners

[Edophus]

It definitely looked like a gt4 infront to me, nice driving in the ss3.. I've had both cars, i like the cornering in the ss3 because of the superstrut the car turns the corner just as the wheels are pointed nomatter what while the gt4 has the same but its overridden by the rear wheels having the power to kick its arse out.

the gt4 dude wasnt following any racing lines and im puzzled as to why his 2nd gear didnt pull him far away from you out of the medium corners

Thanks, i appreciate all the comments about the driving, and nice to see someone else who appreciates the superstrut

the reason he didnt pull away in 2nd is simple..... because he couldnt

if i was running my road tyres and no wing i'd have popped it past him on the straight no problem....

my freind has an st205 with induction/exhaust and my ss3 fully loaded with 4 spare wheels/tyres, tools, jack and luggage for a few days track fun was an even match, when empty it was a good match for the local evo 5's and 6's which usually had the basic exhaust mods etc, road wheels were trd forged alloys that were light as a feather and 215/40/r16 tyres to gear it down slightly, power to weight is a wonderfull thing

gone now sadly

[delusionz]

Superstrut is good, I wouldn't trade it for coilovers, ever.

I have a 96 GT4, I sold my 96 SS-III to my partner, the GT4 is definitely faster, I swear it is, even though it doesn't look like it when watching the speedometer, the amount of distance on the road covered is alot greater, like being able to leap into far away distances with a simple 'vrmmmm pshh' instead of a long bwaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

However our SS-III is only Gen 3 3S-GE, not Beams, so that might be alot closer to the GT4.

I watched that video again, nice driving again.

[Edophus]

Superstrut is good, I wouldn't trade it for coilovers, ever.

I have a 96 GT4, I sold my 96 SS-III to my partner, the GT4 is definitely faster, I swear it is, even though it doesn't look like it when watching the speedometer, the amount of distance on the road covered is alot greater, like being able to leap into far away distances with a simple 'vrmmmm pshh' instead of a long bwaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

However our SS-III is only Gen 3 3S-GE, not Beams, so that might be alot closer to the GT4.

I watched that video again, nice driving again.

thanks!

yeah to put it in perspective though as stock my beams wasnt as quick as a gt4, but my ss3 was gutted completely by the point of that video, no aircon, no interior, no soundproofing, lightweight seats, with power to weight similar to a gt4 with basic mods, and it performed like that, super lightweight forged trd rims at only 5.7 kg each and low profile tyres helped gear it down a bit, damn thing felt like it was turbo charged at that point. I never modded the engine though, problem with the ss3, even the beams is its a heavy car really for the power, sort out the weight issue and it really comes alive. I was running trd superstrut coilovers which cost a ton but were frikking awsome!, i doubt i'll ever drive a fwd car that good again.

Also I built an adapter loom if its of interest to people so you can use a 1zz-fe power-fc to control the beams engine, it doesnt take very much to get it working just half a dozen wires moved/spliced. heres a vid of testing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J53g-533eGU

This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 12, 2009 - 12:27 PM

[manphibian]

He's back! How you doing mate? What you got now? Did you have a 185 or have i completely made that up?

[Edophus]

He's back! How you doing mate? What you got now? Did you have a 185 or have i completely made that up?

how do! i have a st182 at the moment as my daily driver, building up a 1984 gen3 celica with a blacktop beams and 6 speed box in it at the moment just begun fabricating the engine mounts tonight, cant wait to get it finished!. My beams redtop engine has gone to soul45 on ccuk, he's rebuilding it for boost

[manphibian]

Awesome

Make sure you put some pics up on here

[delusionz]

Why does it need to be changed change to 1zz-fe ecu if you have the power-fc? doesn't the power-fc alone let u raise the rev limiter? does it not control a standalone ignition system or even the stock ignition system?

I'd understand if u were using an safc, but a power-fc?

[Edophus]

Why does it need to be changed change to 1zz-fe ecu if you have the power-fc? doesn't the power-fc alone let u raise the rev limiter? does it not control a standalone ignition system or even the stock ignition system?

I'd understand if u were using an safc, but a power-fc?

you dont get a power-fc for the redtop beams, the 1zz-fe is very similar electronics wise to the beams except for the ignition circuit, so i made a harness to allow the 1zz-fe power-fc to work on the beams redtop.