Just found out a "Friend" I work with is a sex offender, 2nd Conviction for extreme child molestation Options

[DEATH]

I'm so messed up in the head right now. I feel like killing this man myself and I know nothing of the child other than she was two years old and this is his second conviction. A little background:
I work at a machine/fabrication shop where I'm the head of the engineering department. That means I and the people under me design equipment and parts for equipment that performs a specific function. All of which means I'm out on the shop floor very often, making sure the parts and assemblies I design work properly before they go into mass production. One of the guys I worked pretty closely with in our weld room over the last 8 years or so was on parole for some felony or another - heck most of these guys are. It's just the sort trade that employs alot of ex-cons [I'd say there are more ex-cons than not in the male population out here in the shop]. Now granted, I didn't hang with the guy outside of work, I never had beers with him or any of that. The most I ever saw outside of work was once when he drove his car into a ditch I helped him out, drove him to work. But he seemed like this really nice old man who, yeah maybe fcuked up bad when he was younger and now was just living the rest of his life the best he could. He had several embarresing visits from his Parole Officer up here - he took them in stride, didn't get upset or overly embarresed. He seemed repentative and content to live out his last few years peacefully.
This morning I find out he won't be coming back to work anymore because he was caught sexually molesting a 2yo little girl. Nevermind the question how did he get a little girl like that alone - I have no idea of the details. Sounds to me like some parents need to be going to jail too but that's another question and I have no way of judging that situation [It's just I'm a parent and I know noone is ever allowed time like that around my children with out my knowledge and supervision]. I also found out that that was the felony he was previously convicted of and had served his time for [And I hope those of you who don't support the death penalty for sex crimes are proud of yourselves - I'm sure this little girl would thank you for your kindness if she could. Sarcasm, obviously. If we had executed him the first time this happened another little girl wouldn't have had her life ruined by this horrible act.].
As I said - It's got me messed up. I'm usually a great judge of character but I never saw this coming. I think that if I had found this out before the police did it would be me in jail for murder and him 6 feet under ATM. And I don't feel in the least bit remorseful about that.
These fcuking bastards should all be killed to protect the world's children from them. That's my opinion.
Please discuss this. Please do so maturely. Please respect other's opinions.
Mod's - I'm sorry in advance if this must be closed - I just don't know any other group this diverse that I can get other opinions from that will be different from my own.

[bloodrain]

that really sucks, lets just hope the little girl is too young to remember.

[presure2]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

[D-Man]

x2 on keeping this mature and controlled.

This is a sick sad twist. Matt, you know i've got a 5month old daughter, and how much i freak out about new baby sitters! I dont know how well you knew the man, and the fact that you were blindsided by his personality (and was previously believed to be a reasonably "good" guy) Does not exempt the fact that what he has done is horrible. That makes 2 little girls lives ruined by this man. IMO that makes him a monster.

I have to admit, you are right about the death penalty, there is no room in society for people like this. There is no reason to molest children; other than being so messed up in the head, that there is no return. At witch point they should be treated like a dog with rabies. Put them down before they hurt someone else.

I also would like to know what the heck was going on with the parents of this child. How do you leave your baby with someone with a record like this? When i'm visiting family i keep my daughter in my eye-sight at ALL TIMES! i never let her leave my or my wife's attention. How can they figure to leave the little girl with a confirmed child molester, close the doors and walk away? I'd like to know what happened on their end, Depending on how this came to be, I believe that the parents should possibly face punishment as well. Suppose they left the Molester in care as a baby-sitter arrangement, the parents should DEFF face punishment. That is endangering their own child.

Dude, This is fcuked up, I agree, 100%. And someone that you knew at that, makes it all the worse; (especially knowing now, when you should have knew before) Is he going to go back into jail? Or has he just lost his job? (I've been in that welding booth, there are plenty of ways that "accidents" can happen, and those doors are thick enough that no-one would hear a thing ) j/k ( kidding to the minimal extent )

Seriously, there should (atleast) be a greater identification markers for convected child molesters. the red or blue sign in the yard isn't enough. The DL should say CHILD MOLESTER all over it. The sign in the yard should be the size of a free-way bilboard and list everything he's done. Seriously, Molestation is something that has to be planed, and you have to be one sick individual to go thru with it. Death penelty is the ultimate goal, but we should deff up the warning indicators in the mean time.

[DEATH]

you never know who you will meet in life.
i cant help but feel like every person convicted of a sex offense like that should seriously just be killed.

i know if someone molested MY daughter, that person would die, one way or another.

on a side note, D, the topic is fine IMO.
lets just keep it on topic, and not get out of control, and everything is cool in my book.

Thanks Pressure. See I know we have mature adults from over seas on here as well and I know their opinions on the death penalty often widely differ from our own. This is one of those situations, I beleive, that shows the rehabilitation system has just allowed for another innocent to be harmed. I'd just like to see what those that normally would say "But we can't just kill them" think now. Someone took that attitude and now a little girl's life has been ruined in the most horrible of ways. I know girls who were molested as a child. For some reason the Goth community is full of twisted adult females who can trace their sexual preferences right back to some haenous act such as this. So I'm a little biased - I can see where this leads.
I'd like to hear from some of our friends here who normally oppose capital punishment. What are their thoughts now that we see it most certainly should have been the solution to this man's problems.
Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to hear those other views. I just hope we can keep this civil and mature [I think we can].

D-Man - I knew this one would touch you personally. I already knew that you're oppinion would be the same as mine. Thank you for articulating a very good interum solution. I think until we can get the proper death penalties installed, you're ideas would be the next best thing.

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

[Legit94GT]

That is ridiculous, people like that make me physically ill.

After watching the Boondock Saints me and my dad came up with the idea that when people get executed(which doesnt happen nearly enough) it should be like ebay. You pay money to the state, or county, to get to me the guy who pushes the button, or flips the switch, or if you have enough money you get 1 hour alone with them, if we did that every state would have more than enough money to run the state, just my .02

I also work in a major fabrication work area, and there are some sketch people there for sure, i think once convicted of a crime like that they should be ****ing branded on the forehead so everyone knows...

The world seldom makes sense, and when it does, for a brief instant in time, humans find another way to **** it up worse that before.

Pressure i feel you there, i dont have kids but i do have a sister and a girl, and if some thing happened to them... lets just say whoever did it wouldnt make it to jail...

Sorry to hear about that, when stuff like that happens close to you it will shake you up for awhile, just try to remember that he doesnt deserve to live, and you do, so make the most of it while you got it...

[Shink]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

I think you'll find I'm not too wrong in saying that the European perspective is very similar. Sex crimes are some of the very worst crimes imaginable simply because of the innocence of the victim and the f***ed up nature of the crime. I, myself, am utterly appalled and saddened by this and can imagine that this has really hurt you - as a father, especially.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

That is the rational side of it. But I know that just like you, and everyone else I expect, I'd want to kill the ****er, too

Edit: just wanted to add - I do recognize that not all sex criminals are mentally ill - some people are just plain bad.

This post has been edited by Shink: Jul 18, 2008 - 10:35 AM

[D-Man]

nd the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

I have to say, That makes a lot of sense. But we cant go "talking" to people one by one, There has to be a way of putting the idea's out of people's heads, w/o requiring a victim first.

[Shink]

There has to be a way of putting the idea's out of people's heads, w/o requiring a victim first.

Exactly. But is it the death penalty? Rational, sane people respond to a threat such as the death penalty. If sex crimes are the result of a kind of insanity, then it's not clear they'll see the death penalty as a threat.

As I understand it, the need to get caught is what motivates some people to commit a crime. Serial killers, for example: getting caught and being killed for it is part of the reason (thrill?) of killing.

It sounds wrong to say it, but more than likely the only people who know what they need to NOT commit a sex crime is sex criminals.

[DEATH]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

First let me say I was not trying to call anyone out when I said that. It just seems that the masses in Europe tend to be alot more on the prevention side of the solution than here where more favor capital punishment. Obviously both sides of the pond have people on both sides of the fence.

Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

But can't you see my point in this? We tried already to rehabilitate this man for similar crimes he was previously convicted of and what do we get for our humane treatment? What do we get for the trouble of taking the moral high road? We get another innocent victim. Another potentially ruined life.
If we had killed this bastard the first time there would be no second time. Plain, simple, honest and direct. Positive solution - Problem solved.

And another thing I'd like to say is thank you to everyone who is taking the time out to talk this over rationally with me - it's helping my mental state cause I've been anguishing all morning about whether I should have known and done something about it. I'm intelligent enough to know that that's a stupid way to think. Who am I to have done anything to prevent? But my heart rarely bleeds for anyone or anything - it does for this poor little girl. I hope they get him in prison [Prison justice FTMFW].
I am getting calmer through this thread tho - slowly. Let's hear all sides - anyone else have an opinion?

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 11:24 AM

[saleeka]

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

As far as the death penalty goes, I don't know. Death is a way to protect the innocent from future crimes and make the public feel safer, and feel that justice has been served - a justice that matches or exceeds the crime. This is a good thing. It is not, however, a deterrent - sex crimes seem to come from a severe mental illness and, just like homicide, there is no evidence that the death penalty stops people doing the crime. And the problem with the death penalty then is that there must be one victim before there can be punishment. Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

To eliminate all sex crimes there must be exploration and understanding - the problem must be understood. This is harder, because it means that we need to be able to talk about it. People who suffer the mental problems that lead to sex crimes need to be able to talk about it with someone. This stretches our tolerance much farther than it has ever been stretched. But it is only through openness and therapy that ALL children can be protected.

I really appreciate what you have posted, because I feel it is a very educated opinion, and one that looks to truly solve the problem. I really don't want to go into the sex offender side of this equation because I don't wish to have my point misunderstood, but as for the death penalty, I see it as a very extreme measure that should not be used in most circumstances. I've noticed that a few people have commented that we don't use the death penalty enough. I don't hold that same view for a couple reasons.

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved. Nobody wins, because putting to death the offender doesn't reverse the crime that was committed. A Criminal's family has to experience the pain of losing a family member because of someone else's actions, just as the family of the victim. As expensive as many say it is to incarcerate someone for the rest of their life, I don't think many realize how much money is spent on those who travel through the court system of appeals on death row. The difference isn't as large as some would like to believe.

I'm not saying that there is an easy answer to problems like these, as we still have issues like this that need solving. With our population growing, crimes like this are only going to become more visible, so I really think the focus should be understanding why people do things like this, so we can then learn how to rehabilitate offenders of many different crimes (if possible). Because the focus isn't on integrating felons back into our society, I could see why many criminals feel as if they have nothing left to loose, and have no real incentive to change. All of this may sound like a far off and distant dream, but I really believe that you aren't going to stop violent crime and death by using the same methods we are today.

This post has been edited by saleeka: Jul 18, 2008 - 11:57 AM

[manphibian]

The death penalty is an alien concept really over here. But i would have absolutely no problem at all if was introduced here for such offences against children.

It is imo the worst crime that could possibly be committed, against someone so completely innocent, and unable to defend themselves. Far worse than any murder, and with worse consequences in many cases.

Sickening. I would love to see these people executed.

and i do feel that the death penalty would act as an effective deterrent in many cases, from what i have seen about paedophiles, many of them seem fairly normal, they're not all mentally ill people who don't care about being executed, as proven here, it's hard to pick them out for preventative treatments until it's too late and they've done it

makes me sad

[D-Man]

It sounds wrong to say it, but more than likely the only people who know what they need to NOT commit a sex crime is sex criminals.

Then we stick all of em in a lab and study them until we find their "kriptonite" (and then gas them all.)

Let's hear what some of our European friends think.

Surely the best thing is to prevent all sex crimes. This cannot be done if the solution is revenge.

But can't you see my point in this? We tried already to rehabilitate this man for similar crimes he was previously convicted of and what do we get for our humane treatment? What do we get for the trouble of taking the moral high road? We get another innocent victim. Another potentially ruined life.
If we had killed this bastard the first time there would be no second time. Plain, simple, honest and direct. Positive solution - Problem solved.

True, But i believe shink is saying, that it would be more efficient to have never happend the first time. If we can figure out a way to make the child molesters NOT molest children in the first place, then we wont have to "put them down" later. That would be the Ideal solution, so that no children get molested in the first place.

And another thing I'd like to say is thank you to everyone who is taking the time out to talk this over rationally with me - it's helping my mental state cause I've been anguishing all morning about whether I should have known and done something about it. I'm intelligent enough to know that that's a stupid way to think. Who am I to have done anything to prevent? But my heart rarely bleeds for anyone or anything - it does for this poor little girl. I hope they get him in prison [Prison justice FTMFW].
I am getting calmer through this thread tho - slowly.

All of our hearts go out to this poor little girl. At 2yrs old? She has done nothing to have that happen to her. She's just a baby, barely able to walk; basic words, still eating dry cheerios as she can't handle really heavy foods yet. a BABY!! This is horrible. But Speaking of "Prison Justice" there are plenty of men who are locked up, That have children of their own, that love to put their hands on these monsters. I read something somewhere that said people convicted of Child Molestation, Rapist, and Kidnappers are the most frequently "Endangered" and most often injured/killed. Even convicts know that you don't mess with children, and that No means No. (by all means there are other things that will happen to him that are also FTMFW) I hope he shows up on the news soon.

I think that's the point that Shink is aslo pointing out, there is research done that shows these people have something wrong in their head. How do we fix that, and put the idea into their head that they do NOT do these sick acts?

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:14 PM

[Shink]

from what i have seen about paedophiles, many of them seem fairly normal, they're not all mentally ill people who don't care about being executed, as proven here, it's hard to pick them out for preventative treatments until it's too late and they've done it

makes me sad

I'm going to stay out of this thread after this...I've said my bit

But...

Many mental illnesses do not show. How much of someone's life do we actually see? I bet you have secrets, could keep secrets, could have a part of your life that is entirely private. We normally judge someone based on instinct and extremely limited information. More often than not, the reason that this judgment is correct is simply that most people are relatively ordinary. Many people with non-criminal mental diseases - such as depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia - are able to hide them for many years from people very close to them.

Therefore, some people might be properly mentally ill and we'd have no idea...especially if we force them to hide it. And yes, it is extremely hard to pick them out for preventative treatment.

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

But I am reminded of a documentary I saw about a man who molested his own kids because of a brain tumor. He had the tumor removed, the need to touch his kids went away. Then he started doing it again and they looked..the tumor had grown back. Some collateral damage is allowable, but this kind of story does add a certain twist to it.

And now I'm done. Really.

This post has been edited by Shink: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:16 PM

[Legit94GT]

Then we stick all of em in a lab and study them until we find their "kriptonite" (and then gas them all.)

LOL

In a few years they will have the whole genome mapped(if they dont already) and will be able to determine what genetic sequence makes people more prone to do such things, then we should test everyone when they are born and people who have "bad" sequences are closely watch for their mental/genetic illness... or exterminate them...(ha ha that would never ever happen)

About the death penalty... thats it, it is a penalty...its called capital PUNISHMENT, i dont think most criminals really think that much of it, as far as it being a real deterent, i really doubt it... But when the crime is so terrible, some people need to lose their life, i think that getting gang raped by convicts in jail for a few years then getting killed is a good punishment.

I dont think any criminal would be like "oh wait, i cant do that cause if i get caught i'll get the needle!!!! nah i just wont get caught:)"

Glad to see this convo staying well structured, and that people from the other side of the pond are speaking up, what are your guys laws over there as far as the death penaly goes?

[DEATH]

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved.

It's thinking like this that allowed the second child above to be harmed. I thank you for your opinion and respect it. I do want people to voice them but I'm sorry I can't agree. Some dogs deserve/need to be put down.
And let me repeat what I've said a million times:
I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life". IMO a human needs to prove his worth - there is no inherrant "Value of human life" any more than there is in animal/plant life. That's all a bunch of humanitarian BS thought up by learned humans. It goes against basic human nature and it just isn't true. This man was a welder for a living, he has no children of his own and he had nothing else to offer society except the molestation of children - no inherrant "value of human life" [Except his skills and deeds as a welder]. His life was not worth rehabilitating and he proved it by offending again despite societies best efforts to change him.

I'm going to stay out of this thread after this...I've said my bit

I hope it was not anything I said. I value your well thought out opinions and contributions to this thread.

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

This is the most intelligent thing said here in this thread. It's very true and I hope for all of societies sake that we someday find a way to achieve this. But for now, in this day with these means - the only hope is, at the very minimum, life without parole. Execution would be much more appropriate.



This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 12:42 PM

[SlickRick]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

[SlickRick]

To my mind we need a combination of both prevention and cure. A society of open tolerance with a fair chance to heal yourself and make good, followed by a swift, severe and cheap death penalty.

This is the most intelligent thing said here in this thread. It's very true and I hope for all of societies sake that we someday find a way to achieve this. But for now, in this day with these means - the only hope is, at the very minimum, life without parole. Execution would be much more appropriate.

wow that is got to be the most ridiculous thing in the thread. I don't know what's worse that fact that Shink says it or you agree. There will never be a swift or cheap death penalty, I guarantee it. How can u prevent sex crimes? I think your best chance of preventing these types of thing starts with things like better schools, better prenatal care and infant care for the poor. Sometimes these people are sick in the head from a childhood of parent that do the same or their brains not developing due to a bad upbringing. Wow u guys want to throw these people in caskets but never address the real issue, typical torch and pitch fork reactions.

This post has been edited by SlickRick: Jul 18, 2008 - 1:03 PM

[lubu]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

I think that death penalty is too easy on them, that kind of ppl should be tied up, kick them in the balls, put honey on them and let the ants go lose.

Then jail them for life and carry out the above procedures everymonth!!

But seriously. If a person knows that they'll face life imprison then they will think twice abt what they're gonna do, coz life imprison IMO is worse than death penalty.

[SlickRick]

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

I think that death penalty is too easy on them, that kind of ppl should be tied up, kick them in the balls, put honey on them and let the ants go lose.

Then jail them for life and carry out the above procedures everymonth!!

But seriously. If a person knows that they'll face life imprison then they will think twice abt what they're gonna do, coz life imprison IMO is worse than death penalty.

thats the thing IF it did prevent crimes then fine do it. BUT IT DOES NOT!!! One of the biggest studies of the 20th century takes all the data found on the crime rates in states with the death penalty and its ALWAYS higher in states with the death penalty, its even breaks it down crime by crime and county by county and its without exception, HIGHER. And any criminal psychologist will tell that it will never work as a deterrent bcuz all crimes like this r committed by people that either dont care of the consequences or dont think they will get caught. Its like a sick drug to them they just feel the need to do these sick things without rhyme or reason. So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

[lubu]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

[SlickRick]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

I think the only way 2 stop them and prevent them it by identifying people with poor mental health that exhibit signs of this type of behavior at any age.

[D-Man]

nah i just wont get caught:)"

This makes me wonder, has he only done this 2 times? We all know someone (rather we know it or not) that has been sexualy abused in some way or another, and alot of times, these people will never say anything, Even YEARS later, because they are afraid of the thoughts of others, and that they will no longer be viewed as the same person. And its for reasons like this, these people roam free w/o anyone ever knowing. I dont blame the victims, Its common practice for the offender to threaten, and say things that will discourage the victim from coming forward.

I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life". IMO a human needs to prove his worth - there is no inherrant "Value of human life" any more than there is in animal/plant life. That's all a bunch of humanitarian BS thought up by learned humans. It goes against basic human nature and it just isn't true. This man was a welder for a living, he has no children of his own and he had nothing else to offer society except the molestation of children - no inherrant "value of human life" [Except his skills and deeds as a welder]. His life was not worth rehabilitating and he proved it by offending again despite societies best efforts to change him.

Agreed. He had nothing to live for, short of his own "jollies"

I am not gonna get onto the whole sex offender thing its sick and they should pay for what they do. I am not trying 2 let them off the hook, but the death penalty is NOT the answer. I did a huge paper on the death penalty and to be honest is does not work and cost millions of tax payer dollars more then just putting a person in jail for life. I am very opposed the death penalty. Its makes us all murderers. And i am just giving you the facts here, but states with the death penalty actually have a higher rate per capita of violent crimes and rapes then states without. Its just does not work.

It would be ideal to have it to never happen.

And let me explain a personal belief (and lets try not to discuss this here) But i believe that some crimes are worse than others. (all of our punishment systems work like this, for all countrys) Wife-Beating is worse than Speeding. Thats why one gets jail time, one gets a ticket. And IMO (this is the controversial part, please dont freak and get off topic with this) But Child Molestation is WORSE than Murder. (and when used in conjunction, there is nothing worse that you can do to a person) Think about it, you actualy have to find a child, before commiting this act. You have to find someones baby, someone who's so new to this world, that...

My daughter: I can see this light, the vibrant, radiating light of life; Radiating from her eyes; every time i look into them. It's a beautiful glow of love, life, innocents, and it's such a beautiful thing. As we grow older and make stupid decisions, and face varrious and difficult decisions, and as we age, this light deminishes. And that would be our bassed on our decisions. But some one, would take that aura of love, life, and innocents and turn it into Pain, Fear, and the essence of a nightmare? To someone who has no concept of whats happening, 2 years old. 2 YEARS OLD!! I'm not talking about a 22yr girl who gets drunk and regrets it the next day, I'm talking about a child who is unable to understand why this is happening, why this person is hurting her, why he's being so mean, why he's holding her so tightly, why he's breathing on her so heavily and do i need to continue? We're talking about the person who is sexualy aroused by this. My intent isn't to be vulgar here, but we all read that last line and were sickened and disgusted. We're talking about a person who thinks of what i just said and "pops wood" and "enjoys himself"

This is a Fcuked up person, Anyone who would do this is Fcuked up. And while PREVENTION is the IDEAL solution; punishment should be treated like a rabid dog, should be put down before they hurt someone else. End Of Story.

[lagos]

I only read the first post, so sorry if this was brought up, but...
Doesn't Megan's Law require all sex offenders to tell their employer, landlord, etc... what they did?
Did your job know he was a sex offender, but just didn't they the rest of the employees about it, or did he get around the system somehow?

[GriffGirl]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

I think the only way 2 stop them and prevent them it by identifying people with poor mental health that exhibit signs of this type of behavior at any age.

That's much easier said than done. Typically people who are mentally ill and have a proclivity toward sexual deviance do not exhibit easily recognizable behaviors. Yes, prevention would be the answer, unfortunately, whether a person is mentally ill or not, the fact still remains that pedophiles can NOT be rehabilitated. They simply can't.

It's interesting this has come up here... Death, I feel for you. I really do. In a way I live with this sort of thing on a day-to-day basis. My g/f works for the State in an MRDD group home. The particular home she works in now houses sex offenders, specifically and primarily pedophiles. She has to interact with these people on a day-to-day basis. For the most part, she can handle it. They are people who are literally mentally retarded, some of whom have the mentality and development of a 5 year old. These are people who were severely abused as children, by either their parents or relatives, or by a (now closed) state-operated hospital group-home type of place. These particular clients are easy to deal with, because their environment is strictly controlled and thus they're basically just not exposed to anything that would "make their minds wander" in that direction. Their behavior is simply and genuinely a life-long knee-jerk reaction to their own past abuse.

However - there's one client in particular who is not retarded. He's not exactly bright, but he's not actually retarded. He plays dumb. And everyone knows it, including the psychiatrists who were sought out to label this guy retarded so that he could remain in state custody after he was released from his 13 years in prison. This guy constantly exhibits what's called "grooming" behavior toward the other clients, one in particular. When he talks about his last offense that got him the 13 years in prison, he says the only thing he did wrong was not killing the boy.

My g/f has to work with this guy daily. In fact she has to spend an inordinate amount of one-on-one time with him, as he has a "job" (State vocational program) and it's her job to take him to his job every day and oversee him. She actually likes her job, but this guy and working with him absolutely turns her stomach. She's currently putting in for a different shift, so she won't have to interact with him so much, and she's also looking for a new job.

The thing she's learned from working at this particular house is that basically, you just never know. Someone can seem totally normal and chill and fine, but be a complete sick fcuk. This is just another reason why it's important to be an attentive parent. Know who your kids are hanging out with, get to know the parents, know what your kids are doing on line, and have an open and communicative relationship with your kids.

This is getting so long... I could go on and on here... so I'll end it with this. Personally, as for the death penalty - I support it for child sex offenders. But since we're not going to exercise the death penalty for crimes that don't involve the death of another person, that's basically off the table. I think these people should be castrated and put in jail for the rest of their lives with no parole. (I say castrated because 99% of sex offenders are male.) Basically, brand 'em, make 'em a bitch, and let the rest of the prison population take care of them. Generally they will - look at what happened to Dahmer. He didn't last long in prison at all.

[DEATH]

thats the thing IF it did prevent crimes then fine do it. BUT IT DOES NOT!!!

I'm trying really hard not to respond the way I want to to all of your other posts, to respect your right to an opinion and so I will only respond to this one thing above:
The Death Penalty would have prevented this most recent act had it been given as his original punishment the first time he committed this crime years ago. Therefore, your theory here is incorrect.
What I think you mean to say is that a known death penalty for sex offenders will not act as a pre-crime deterrant. OK - maybe in some cases you are correct, maybe most of them, but to say it will never deter any of them of them from committing their crimes is rediculous. I can gaurantee you there are people out there who do not commit such crimes because they fear the retribution the state has already layed out for them. You can't make such blanket statements: their almost always false. There are always exceptions to every rule and in this case those exceptions have the result of a few more innocents staying innocent and free from this type of harm.
Good enough and a step in the right direction IMO.
Furthermore: if you, like I, had a loved one who was the victim of such a horrible crime you would change your mind in a heartbeat. It's easy to be moral and selfrighteous from yours, the easy side of the fence.

[GriffGirl]

Oh, and here's a link to help people/parents stay aware:

http://www.familywatchdog.us/


Edit: your employer probably knew he was a sex offender, it is the law. However it is also the law that your employer is not obligated to inform employees of his crime. Furthermore, I think it might be the law that the employer NOT inform other employees.

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Jul 18, 2008 - 1:54 PM

[DEATH]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

This is a very serious subject - please keep jokes to another thread.

[DEATH]

I only read the first post, so sorry if this was brought up, but...
Doesn't Megan's Law require all sex offenders to tell their employer, landlord, etc... what they did?
Did your job know he was a sex offender, but just didn't they the rest of the employees about it, or did he get around the system somehow?

I'm not sure. I'm only senior management and not over his department but I can say people at my level didn't know and there are only two people [Pres and VP] above us and i don't think they would have hired him had they known. But IDK.

[D-Man]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

I think the only way 2 stop them and prevent them it by identifying people with poor mental health that exhibit signs of this type of behavior at any age.

This is not a joking thread. Feel free to visit:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...;hl=joke+thread

I think these people should be castrated and put in jail for the rest of their lives with no parole. (I say castrated because 99% of sex offenders are male.) Basically, brand 'em, make 'em a bitch, and let the rest of the prison population take care of them. Generally they will - look at what happened to Dahmer. He didn't last long in prison at all.

NOW THAT'S A COMPROMISE I CAN LIVE WITH!!

Furthermore: if you, like I, had a loved one who was the victim of such a horrible crime you would change your mind in a heartbeat. It's easy to be moral and selfrighteous from yours, the easy side of the fence.

x2!!

[DEATH]

This is a Fcuked up person, Anyone who would do this is Fcuked up. And while PREVENTION is the IDEAL solution; punishment should be treated like a rabid dog, should be put down before they hurt someone else. End Of Story.

Amen

[D-Man]

Matt, i'm sorry for filling up your thread with my thoughts and ideals, (especialy when they're the same as your's ) But you already knew i would. I love my daughter as much as you love your boys; and while you worked with this guy; i've been to your shop, i've been in the welding booth when people were welding, i could have walked right past this guy w/o ever knowing it. It just hits too close to home. I know you're feeling alot like that right now, Had you known before... Damn dude. sucks.

Its a mind trip, and i'm trying to step off of my soap box, because i'm trembling with anger; just un-intentfuly imagining the pain that the poor girl faced... It fills me with that same anger and rage as i know you're filled with as well. Damn it bro, it's just so fcuked up.

IDK what else to say...

He was arrested though?

[saleeka]

I find it somewhat hypocritical to use death as a deterrent to criminals who commit violent crimes, as I feel it promotes a sense of "acceptable" violence in society (which I feel can easily be misinterpreted, thus creating a different set of problems). I also think putting a criminal to death must certainly add to the list of victims involved.

It's thinking like this that allowed the second child above to be harmed.

And let me repeat what I've said a million times:
I think we put too much emphasis on "The value of Human Life".

Please don't confuse my opinion of the death penalty as me saying that the sex offender you describe in your original post shouldn’t have consequences- I clearly laid out in my original post that I was separating the two. I still feel that lifetime incarceration achieves the same goal you are looking for. That said, I strongly believe the value of human life should NEVER be taken for granted. Hitler successfully sold to the German people that exact concept, and millions of "less valuable" human beings were exterminated in the process. The de-humanization of people is a very slippery slope, because who gets to decide who's life is more important? First murderers and sex offenders deserve to die, then armed robbers, then adulterers, then ...? Now, I'm obviously using drastic examples, but I feel it highlights the problem with setting a value to human life, or rights, for that matter. It's too much like playing God for me... I want to clarify that I don't think you shouldn’t feel the way you do, I really enjoy open dialog about people's thoughts like this. We can all only grow from taking the time to see other's point of view, and I hope it lets you vent off in a positive way

[DEATH]

D-man trust me - I'm glad you posted what you did. After having to listen to "enablers" opinions all day at work it's nice to hear someone with a similar opnion. Most of the people here at work feel the same way as we do but there are a couple who think nothing of having worked next to him for 10 years and think maybe he just should have had a few more years in prison - he was in for over 20 years for what he did the first time - if that didn't rehabilitate him nothing will. If that's not positive proof the state should have killed him years ago I don't know what is.
Oh and BTW - You stood right next to the guy. Poor little girl - it would be worth my sentence if I had known and "welded" his head to the table of one of the robots. Fcukin bastard.
NOT HAVING A DEATH PENALTY FOR HIS CRIME ALLOWED THIS MAN TO OFFEND AGAIN AND RUIN A CHILD"S LIFE - A BABY!!! if you can't see this than you are part of the problem.
I gotta stop talking - you guys continue.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 2:26 PM

[DEATH]

I really enjoy open dialog about people's thoughts like this. We can all only grow from taking the time to see other's point of view, and I hope it lets you vent off in a positive way

I agree with this 100%

[D-Man]

D-man trust me - I'm glad you posted what you did. After having to listen to "enablers" opinions all day at work it's nice to hear someone with a similar opnion. Most of the people here at work feel the same way as we do but there are a couple who think nothing of having worked next to him for 10 years and think maybe he just should have had a few more years in prison - he was in for over 20 years for what he did the first time - if that didn't rehabilitate him nothing will. If that's not positive proof the state should have killed him years ago I don't know what is.
Oh and BTW - You stood right next to the guy. Poor little girl - it would be worth my sentence if I had known and "welded" his head to the table of one of the robots. Fcukin bastard.

For Real! I dont understand (though i dont mind keeping an adult attitude and talking about this maturely) But (rather) it's hard for me to understand how some of our members can bluntly see this man blended in with your crew, didnt' stick out in the least, but say that he's mental and should have been watched? then he's done 20 years already, and the first opportunity he gets he does it again? What part of "too far gone" are people not comprehending? (Again, i mean no offense to anyone, this is just my .02 cents) but a 2 year old child. Common.

I stood right next to him, i had no idea. Damn, they should be required to wear shirts or something. Bright ass neon shirts. Remember when you were giving me that tour of your shop? it would have been perfect should you have said; "And this is our welding room, We've got Plasma, Mig, Tig, a variety of cutting torches, and a Child Molester that you can feel free to test any of the equipment on. Here, Let me show you how to weld a 4 foot long stainless steal bar into an ear canal. After that, We can test out my new design for gothic black spiked steel toe boots on his Sack. i gotta do a double studdy before i can put them into production." And i would have helped you. Had everyone known that he was a child molester, and he was beaten daily for being a fcukin perv, he would have been scared of that child. NOT sexually aroused by her.

If we cant have a DEATH sentence, can we atleast have a law that makes Pedo's stand out like a glowstick in the dark?

NOT HAVING A DEATH PENALTY FOR HIS CRIME ALLOWED THIS MAN TO OFFEND AGAIN AND RUIN A CHILD"S LIFE - A BABY!!! if you can't see this than you are part of the problem.

i have to agree with this. (again, we mean no direct offense to anyone)

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jul 18, 2008 - 2:53 PM

[FreddyTheOthaMea...]

As a parent, if anyone ever did anything to my children I wouldnt JUST kill them. Murder is just simply too fast of a punishment for these sick #%#'s. Torture IMO would be in order first.

[DEATH]

Right and you should be able to get away with it but obviously we can't empower our judiscial system to do that. I'm with you tho for sure.
I still wanna know why the baby was with this man in the first place. Parents need to be brought up on charges too most likely.

[lubu]

So how could you thing of the penalty when they r not thinking at all.

If thats the case then I guess nothing can stop them . Maybe what we need is a time machine, like in Minority Report. That might be the only way.

This is a very serious subject - please keep jokes to another thread.

This is not a joking thread. Feel free to visit:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...;hl=joke+thread

Who says that was a joke???
You guys needs to think of the bigger picture, that comment was no where near a joke. Maybe in the feature we will invent time-machine and wouldnt that be great for crimes like this??

Jumped into conclusion way too early.

[GriffGirl]

Right and you should be able to get away with it but obviously we can't empower our judiscial system to do that. I'm with you tho for sure.
I still wanna know why the baby was with this man in the first place. Parents need to be brought up on charges too most likely.

You know, it was probably a relative. Anyway, how'd the guy get caught? Maybe the parents didn't know about the guy, and were the ones to catch him? Obviously someone else caught him. IDK. Anyway people like that just deserve to rot and suffer. Death is too easy.

[carbondude]

I am the father of 4 girls. 16-15-9-8, and I pop blood vessels at the thought of something like that. I love children they a breathe of fresh air when things seem tuff. I watch mine and remember simpler times other than bills, deadlines etc... When someone commits an act like that to a child they in a sense still there life, all innocents is gone replaced with turmoil and confusion. Thats worst than death cause they have to live with it grow up with it. The fact that some low life sick individual has stolen from them it is not obtainable it's gone (innocence) I personally feel that death is to good and life in prison is no better, cause with life in prison thats just another mouth for society to feed with tax money and our future social security witch is a joke. I vote remove there tools with a rusty knife and drop them off on and island some where but seriously, what do you do other than death? See to me a pedophile is not curable, there is no treatment. I remember when they would put dogs to sleep when they bite people cause they had the taste of human blood (what I was told anyway) well its no diffrent to me I think that after someone who's sick enough to consider it, follows through with it they are done lost. So I have to agree with death. I watch my daughter's like a Hawk, because I care. If this did ever happen to one of them I will start out with the individuals family and work my way to him but they would not be dead just suffuring from loss of many body parts and close family members.

[Havok1997GT]

First: i think that we can all agree that there is no gray area with this issue. Its wrong on a leave that cant be rated. Its the worse thing that anyone can do to someone. I have known many people that have been molested and some are still very close to me.

As far as killing these people for what they have done, here is what i have to say.

You can say that these people are ill and need help, NO. This is not the case. What is wrong with these people is in the brain. They may be able to be taught to ignore the urges to molest but thats it.

(please do not take this the wrong way) Gay people are attracted to the same sex. This is not a learned feeling. This is what their brain is telling them is attractive. This can not be cured. The same can be said about Molesters. Its in their brain. It can not be cured.


So. Should we kill someone for not being able to control themselves?

Murder is a choice. A person will choose to kill someone. A person will choose to drive home drunk and kill a person on a side walk. Although all of these choices can be altered by beer and emotion, they are still choices. Molesters do not choose to molest, its right to them. Its ok, they do not understand why its wrong other then the law says so. and they continue to do it because, to them, its like telling a Gay person to be attracted to the right sex, or telling a strait person to be attracted to the same sex. It cant happen. Therefore, molesters will forever be this way.

So. Back to the question. If they can not control themselves they are a danger to society, however, how can you kill someone for a defect in the brain? that like kill Down syndrome kids because they cant function in the world. Or, again, killing gays for being attracted to the wrong sex. If a person murders your family because they wanted the car they were driving and they were in the way, then thats a clear thinking person who made the choice to kill, this person should be shot on site because he knew what he was doing. A molester believes what he is doing is right and should be legal because they dont understand why its wrong. So if they dont understand, why should they die for that?

Now. Thats how i feel about it. But because of how hanass the crime is, would i kill that person for molesting a child. Yes. because i cant get past the fact that its a child. That fact in of itself takes how i feel about this issue, logic and anything other then rage out of my mind. Is this right? No. But i cant help it, and im sure the rest of you can help it either. You dont want to think this way because You dont want to kill someone who cant stop themselves, but you dont want them on the streets with the rest of the world to do something this horrible. But if we realize that these people cant be helped then that only leaves us with Kill them or lock them up forever or find a way to hack the brain and change this problem in their brain so they dont think this way. Well i dont think killing them is the right way to go. To me, that make you worse then them, now you are killing someone that has no control over their actions and doesnt understand why your killing them, what good does that do other then revenge? None. Lock them up? Well that could work but only if we understand that they cant be cured and they must stay their because they will forever be a risk. Fix the Brain? Well when we can do that, then this will never be an issue again will it?

I guess what im saying is just that Molesting is a illness. It SHOULD be treated that way, and realized that there is no fixing it. and due to the dangerous nature of this illness it should bethere needs to be a better way to handle this issue then kill them, or try to fix them, cuz killing someone for not being able to see why what they are doing is wrong just doesnt seem right to me, and since there is no way to fix them, something else has to be done. My point is i just dont think you can place the death penalty on someone who is un aware of what the problem is.

This post has been edited by Havok1997GT: Jul 18, 2008 - 8:11 PM

[CAMAricer]

I vote for this thread to be shut down. Not because I feel that it is inappropriate for a car enthusiast website (which it kinda is) but it is a disturbing topic to discuss about no matter what your views/thoughts are because you're basically either discussing about child molesters/pedophiles or appropriate punishments for them (killing them in inhuman ways). This thread is just DEPRESSING or INFURIATING. So there really isn't at good that can be said about this topic...only more hate, anger, disgust and sadness.

So please, let's just drop the subject?

EDIT* Comments about ants, honey, torturing people to death, maiming and hurting the innocent relatives of criminals...hmm...not very mature if you ask me. But I guess comments like these can slide (not deleted) so long as they are directed against criminals and the like?

And yes, I know I don't have to read everything that is shoved in front of my face (which is why I resisted reading this thread until it reached 3 pages). And while most of the comments are legitimate, this topic is becoming more polarized and emotional. It started as a semi-vent about a coworker's criminal background and has now become a debate about the death penalty, the legitimacy of mental illnesses, and what people would do to these "sick" individuals as retribution if they had the unfortunate chance to extract revenge. This is where I feel that the thread is becoming inappropriate (which apparently is not what the moderators feel).

This post has been edited by CAMAricer: Jul 20, 2008 - 2:23 AM

[Havok1997GT]

A common misconception that people seem to come across is that they have to read everything they see.

[jcaron9gt4]

This thread has been very mature and kept under control. It's nice to finally see people expressing their opinions without getting bashed for them. I dont see any reason this should be closed, i mean, if someone doesnt like it, they surely dont have to click on the topic.

[creis]

I heard a story a while back about a 13yr old girl who got "raped' when she was younger and the guy went to jail over it, then later got "raped" again and again the guy went to jail, although I dont know the full story they ended up catching the girl and finding out that she was the one posing to be older (although the guy should have known better) it was concenting and she was just getting back a men in general or something (daddy issues.) either way they were innocent of the rape charge as it was concentual so I worry that head they gotton the death sentince then 2 technicly innocent guys would have been killed.

as for stuff like this were it involved a 2 yr old, then I have no reservations about saying the guy deserves death, would be more revengefull to make him live his life out in jail witch although deserved would only cost the citisens more money.

(IMO) Most cases like this is a result of the person commiting the crime having been the victom of it themselfes, thus its a chain, killing them off although in that sence very sad would really cut off the chain and resolve the issue (best case senario.)

[Random_Stranger]

Man this is scary. I wouldn't know what I would do if I were in your shoes, and I don't have kids. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like for you all who have kids. I just know it is a scary world out there, and it is sad and sick.

[shortydragon]

My friend (not a sex offender) once tried to have his way with a girl his age. My age too mind you. No sexual act was conducted, but she really got emotionally upset about it. Regardless of him being my friend since I was 5 years old, it still didn't prevent me from whooping his ass in my old high school's stair well. Doesn't matter of age, of the offender or the victim, that's just not tolerable to me. If I was in Death's situation, I'd be feeling like s*** too. I wouldn't know what to do or how to compose myself. Kudos on not finding the bastard and chopping his b***s off Death!

This post has been edited by shortydragon: Jul 25, 2008 - 2:17 AM